China Retaliates Against the U.S. With Its Own Higher Tariffs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I disagree with your assertion that we are in a better position in the long run than China.

China is a civilization that was here thousands of years before us and will survive thousands of years after us.

There is more to China than just an economy.

The US on the other hand is it’s economy. It isn’t a civilizational people. A trade war with China would hurt the US much more in the long run as it would accelerate the timetable of a national breakup.

Oh my gawd. That's such a self aggrandizing cliche that the Chinese holds about themselves. Thousands of years? So what? China keeps looking longingly to its past but its past is far from being glorious. The traditional Chinese culture valued education and arts for the sake of education and arts, not real actual productivity. They looked down on people who conducted business, even though such people were the economic engine of the society. This is why the country stopped innovating, became insular, and the west rushed past it in terms of technological and economic advancement. In any effective plan of China's future development, looking to the glory days of its past is *not* a part of the equation. Xi may have read San Guo but he realizes that the lessons in those stories don't require the baggage of Chinese history for their deeper meaning. This is decidedly exactly the opposite of the situation in the US, which relies upon the principles of classical liberalism that it was founded on, and will do so for the foreseeable future, because the US has been going through a continuous and coherent evolution.

You talk about "civilization", as if China's current history has some rational attachment to its past. But remember that through communist rule and the cultural revolution, much of the good aspects of China's past has been washed away. The sense of honor and mutual that people used to ascribe to were washed away by decades of poverty and encouraged treachery against each other. There is *NO* moral foundation that gives context to China's current generation. Pursuit of money and wealth is everything. This is why China's current culture is so rife moral corruption, with people selling fakes of everything from hand bags to baby formula. Imagine the mindset of people selling fake baby formula - and we are not talking about some isolated incident, see also the recent vaccine scandal. The young men in China are unmoored in their expectation of reality, all wanting/expecting to attain high levels of wealth in very short order. And the women subscribe to the idea of that no exchange is beyond consideration as long as there is good money in it, to the point that many women in China are open to being a mistress to someone rich, a lifestyle that is celebrated openly. This is also why China is so numb to the authoritarian state that conducts mass surveillance on its citizens, with the population passively accepting their fate like sheep. This is because all of the good foundational beliefs that underpin a culture is completely lost in China.

This is also why Chinese tourists behave so poorly in other countries - because they lack culture, the very thing that they believe they have in abundance through their "thousands of years" of history.

They act this way because life is cheap in China. There are so many people competing for the same jobs, housing, schools, businesses, and yes - even pictures of a museum display. They behave poorly because they have been told by their government that their lives are worthless and therefore if they want something they need to take it for themselves whenever the opportunity presents itself.

This why riding the subway is so awful in Beijing: you'll have grown men push aside and trample elderly ladies for a seat on the train. There's no room for social graces in hyper-competitive environments where resources are constrained by a massive population.

In fact, I posit that in the near term the U.S. will evolve to culturally become more like China as government spending is cut and citizens must compete aggressively with each other for a shrinking piece of the pie.

*shrug* if your argument is that the Chinese government continues to contribute to the destruction of Chinese culture through their devaluation of the dignity and worth of human life, I agree.

Regarding the subway: China isn't the only one with crowds, Japanese in particular seem to be able to deal with the scarcity of space quite politely.

I don't think the US will evolve to be more like China. The US has never subscribed to the "fixed size pie" way of looking at things. It's not like the US was always rich. Even in the days of the wild west, there was value in personal freedom, private property rights, a sense of personal honor through honest hard work, mutual respect, rule of law, and celebration of entrepreneurship. I'm not saying it was perfect, but it served as a the foundation of a culture. No such foundation exists in China. Chinese people are subjects to an authoritarian state, can't own real private property, no sense of honor through hard work, no respect for others, and a corrupt system of laws. They do now value entrepreneurship, but only the kind approved by the central government.

Thats a bunch of bull crap about the so called American "Exceptionalism". The so called individualism gives the wealthy tax cut after tax cuts while the middle and lower class don't get proper education, access to healthcare or even basic standard of life. Having the liberty to own guns when you are using the gun to kill yourself or use it for mass murder isn't a great metric for freedom. We have the lowest educational attainments and our life expectancy as a population in the entire developed world. The freedom to have no healthcare and poor education is NO FREEDOM AT ALL. We do have the freedom to overdose on drugs and our life expectancy,especially white "poorly educated" men's, is falling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I disagree with your assertion that we are in a better position in the long run than China.

China is a civilization that was here thousands of years before us and will survive thousands of years after us.

There is more to China than just an economy.

The US on the other hand is it’s economy. It isn’t a civilizational people. A trade war with China would hurt the US much more in the long run as it would accelerate the timetable of a national breakup.

Oh my gawd. That's such a self aggrandizing cliche that the Chinese holds about themselves. Thousands of years? So what? China keeps looking longingly to its past but its past is far from being glorious. The traditional Chinese culture valued education and arts for the sake of education and arts, not real actual productivity. They looked down on people who conducted business, even though such people were the economic engine of the society. This is why the country stopped innovating, became insular, and the west rushed past it in terms of technological and economic advancement. In any effective plan of China's future development, looking to the glory days of its past is *not* a part of the equation. Xi may have read San Guo but he realizes that the lessons in those stories don't require the baggage of Chinese history for their deeper meaning. This is decidedly exactly the opposite of the situation in the US, which relies upon the principles of classical liberalism that it was founded on, and will do so for the foreseeable future, because the US has been going through a continuous and coherent evolution.

You talk about "civilization", as if China's current history has some rational attachment to its past. But remember that through communist rule and the cultural revolution, much of the good aspects of China's past has been washed away. The sense of honor and mutual that people used to ascribe to were washed away by decades of poverty and encouraged treachery against each other. There is *NO* moral foundation that gives context to China's current generation. Pursuit of money and wealth is everything. This is why China's current culture is so rife moral corruption, with people selling fakes of everything from hand bags to baby formula. Imagine the mindset of people selling fake baby formula - and we are not talking about some isolated incident, see also the recent vaccine scandal. The young men in China are unmoored in their expectation of reality, all wanting/expecting to attain high levels of wealth in very short order. And the women subscribe to the idea of that no exchange is beyond consideration as long as there is good money in it, to the point that many women in China are open to being a mistress to someone rich, a lifestyle that is celebrated openly. This is also why China is so numb to the authoritarian state that conducts mass surveillance on its citizens, with the population passively accepting their fate like sheep. This is because all of the good foundational beliefs that underpin a culture is completely lost in China.

This is also why Chinese tourists behave so poorly in other countries - because they lack culture, the very thing that they believe they have in abundance through their "thousands of years" of history.

They act this way because life is cheap in China. There are so many people competing for the same jobs, housing, schools, businesses, and yes - even pictures of a museum display. They behave poorly because they have been told by their government that their lives are worthless and therefore if they want something they need to take it for themselves whenever the opportunity presents itself.

This why riding the subway is so awful in Beijing: you'll have grown men push aside and trample elderly ladies for a seat on the train. There's no room for social graces in hyper-competitive environments where resources are constrained by a massive population.

In fact, I posit that in the near term the U.S. will evolve to culturally become more like China as government spending is cut and citizens must compete aggressively with each other for a shrinking piece of the pie.

*shrug* if your argument is that the Chinese government continues to contribute to the destruction of Chinese culture through their devaluation of the dignity and worth of human life, I agree.

Regarding the subway: China isn't the only one with crowds, Japanese in particular seem to be able to deal with the scarcity of space quite politely.

I don't think the US will evolve to be more like China. The US has never subscribed to the "fixed size pie" way of looking at things. It's not like the US was always rich. Even in the days of the wild west, there was value in personal freedom, private property rights, a sense of personal honor through honest hard work, mutual respect, rule of law, and celebration of entrepreneurship. I'm not saying it was perfect, but it served as a the foundation of a culture. No such foundation exists in China. Chinese people are subjects to an authoritarian state, can't own real private property, no sense of honor through hard work, no respect for others, and a corrupt system of laws. They do now value entrepreneurship, but only the kind approved by the central government.

Thats a bunch of bull crap about the so called American "Exceptionalism". The so called individualism gives the wealthy tax cut after tax cuts while the middle and lower class don't get proper education, access to healthcare or even basic standard of life. Having the liberty to own guns when you are using the gun to kill yourself or use it for mass murder isn't a great metric for freedom. We have the lowest educational attainments and our life expectancy as a population in the entire developed world. The freedom to have no healthcare and poor education is NO FREEDOM AT ALL. We do have the freedom to overdose on drugs and our life expectancy,especially white "poorly educated" men's, is falling.

We are free to do what we choose. That is a pillar of American exceptionalism. Stop whining and start doing. I’m exceptional. Why aren’t you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I disagree with your assertion that we are in a better position in the long run than China.

China is a civilization that was here thousands of years before us and will survive thousands of years after us.

There is more to China than just an economy.

The US on the other hand is it’s economy. It isn’t a civilizational people. A trade war with China would hurt the US much more in the long run as it would accelerate the timetable of a national breakup.

Oh my gawd. That's such a self aggrandizing cliche that the Chinese holds about themselves. Thousands of years? So what? China keeps looking longingly to its past but its past is far from being glorious. The traditional Chinese culture valued education and arts for the sake of education and arts, not real actual productivity. They looked down on people who conducted business, even though such people were the economic engine of the society. This is why the country stopped innovating, became insular, and the west rushed past it in terms of technological and economic advancement. In any effective plan of China's future development, looking to the glory days of its past is *not* a part of the equation. Xi may have read San Guo but he realizes that the lessons in those stories don't require the baggage of Chinese history for their deeper meaning. This is decidedly exactly the opposite of the situation in the US, which relies upon the principles of classical liberalism that it was founded on, and will do so for the foreseeable future, because the US has been going through a continuous and coherent evolution.

You talk about "civilization", as if China's current history has some rational attachment to its past. But remember that through communist rule and the cultural revolution, much of the good aspects of China's past has been washed away. The sense of honor and mutual that people used to ascribe to were washed away by decades of poverty and encouraged treachery against each other. There is *NO* moral foundation that gives context to China's current generation. Pursuit of money and wealth is everything. This is why China's current culture is so rife moral corruption, with people selling fakes of everything from hand bags to baby formula. Imagine the mindset of people selling fake baby formula - and we are not talking about some isolated incident, see also the recent vaccine scandal. The young men in China are unmoored in their expectation of reality, all wanting/expecting to attain high levels of wealth in very short order. And the women subscribe to the idea of that no exchange is beyond consideration as long as there is good money in it, to the point that many women in China are open to being a mistress to someone rich, a lifestyle that is celebrated openly. This is also why China is so numb to the authoritarian state that conducts mass surveillance on its citizens, with the population passively accepting their fate like sheep. This is because all of the good foundational beliefs that underpin a culture is completely lost in China.

This is also why Chinese tourists behave so poorly in other countries - because they lack culture, the very thing that they believe they have in abundance through their "thousands of years" of history.

They act this way because life is cheap in China. There are so many people competing for the same jobs, housing, schools, businesses, and yes - even pictures of a museum display. They behave poorly because they have been told by their government that their lives are worthless and therefore if they want something they need to take it for themselves whenever the opportunity presents itself.

This why riding the subway is so awful in Beijing: you'll have grown men push aside and trample elderly ladies for a seat on the train. There's no room for social graces in hyper-competitive environments where resources are constrained by a massive population.

In fact, I posit that in the near term the U.S. will evolve to culturally become more like China as government spending is cut and citizens must compete aggressively with each other for a shrinking piece of the pie.

*shrug* if your argument is that the Chinese government continues to contribute to the destruction of Chinese culture through their devaluation of the dignity and worth of human life, I agree.

Regarding the subway: China isn't the only one with crowds, Japanese in particular seem to be able to deal with the scarcity of space quite politely.

I don't think the US will evolve to be more like China. The US has never subscribed to the "fixed size pie" way of looking at things. It's not like the US was always rich. Even in the days of the wild west, there was value in personal freedom, private property rights, a sense of personal honor through honest hard work, mutual respect, rule of law, and celebration of entrepreneurship. I'm not saying it was perfect, but it served as a the foundation of a culture. No such foundation exists in China. Chinese people are subjects to an authoritarian state, can't own real private property, no sense of honor through hard work, no respect for others, and a corrupt system of laws. They do now value entrepreneurship, but only the kind approved by the central government.

Thats a bunch of bull crap about the so called American "Exceptionalism". The so called individualism gives the wealthy tax cut after tax cuts while the middle and lower class don't get proper education, access to healthcare or even basic standard of life. Having the liberty to own guns when you are using the gun to kill yourself or use it for mass murder isn't a great metric for freedom. We have the lowest educational attainments and our life expectancy as a population in the entire developed world. The freedom to have no healthcare and poor education is NO FREEDOM AT ALL. We do have the freedom to overdose on drugs and our life expectancy,especially white "poorly educated" men's, is falling.

We are free to do what we choose. That is a pillar of American exceptionalism. Stop whining and start doing. I’m exceptional. Why aren’t you?

You are no more exceptional than any other person. Thats just your delusion. You are just claiming other past American achievements as your own. You do not have not much accomplishments of your own. Otherwise you won't be on a forum boasting you are exceptional while you are just wasting your time.

Only a delusional nation with rotting infrastructure, poor education, healthcare and a huge class divide will call itself exceptional. But for Asian Immigrants and their kids we would be in much worse shape in educational, research and STEM accomplishments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not PP. You may not be the real world because China is a leader in web 2.0 technologies, battery tech etc. China sells more electric cars in one month than what we do in 2 years. So wake up and work your ass off because just bleating " we are exceptional" and resting on other people's past accomplishments doesn't guarantee a future.

Leader in Web 2.0? LMAO. China has *ONE* dominant social network, WeChat, which essentially became popular because the Chinese government gave it the stamp of approval, leveraging it for mass content monitoring and censorship, and actively worked against the popularity of Google, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Chinese people don't even have access to Youtube. Anyone making the assertion that China is a leader in web 2.0 is someone who is pursuing a side gig as a comedian, you better have a punchline ready after setting that one up.

Yes, China sells many many electrical cars, but I wouldn't go so far as to claim that they are the leader in battery tech. Battery technology is mostly about chemistry, and US/Japan/EU has a clear lead on battery chemistry, followed by South Korea, then Taiwan, and after that, China. Most of the electric cars sold by China are pretty crappy. They are popular not because they are good vehicles, but because all of the major cities severely limit the number of new license plates given out, and allow electric vehicles to jump the line. Also, electrical vehicles have far fewer driving-day restrictions in the cities. Granted the US gives tax credits to early buyers of electrical cars, and sometimes HOV benefits, but this is a few orders of magnitude less than the amount of support for electric vehicles that China as given. Again, China is not a leader in this because they are good at it, but because the Chinese government has mandated it so for their internal market.

Minimizing the competitor's accomplishments and gloating about our accomplishments IS DELUSIONAL. China is the largest market for pretty much anything. they sell 28 million cars and we sell 16 million. China is the largest market for GM, Boeing, Caterpillar etc. China is the leader in solar and wind energy. China and India are competing in the race for largest solar farm and they change the title between themselves every few months. We are not in the race at all. China has web platform and AI platforms that is already deployed. We are doing everything piecemeal and there is no co-ordinated vision.

Everyone starts by making crappy and they improvise and get better. If we don't make at all, then we don't get any better. It doesn't matter how china became the leader, the fact is that they are the leader in electric cars, high speed rail, solar and wind power. You can't wish away China's accomplishments, especially with oil companies stopping any progress in USA while they get subsidy.

LOL, I note that you've completely ignored the Web 2.0 argument. Yea China is a large market, no one is arguing against that, nor are we discounting the importance of China as a market. It's simply foolish to claim that China is the leader on Web 2.0. Also I have idea what you mean by "China has web platform". The US lets the private sector to figure out what the wants and needs of the people are. This is the best way for vision to be established and thrive. History has shown that central planning is inefficient. For all their AI prowess, what is China doing with that AI technology? They are using it to suppress the freedom of the people. In that context, how does AI help the Chinese people?

You spout off all these things and it's just a bunch of mis-informed bits of information that you likely plucked from things you heard in passing. For example, China is *NOT* a leader in high speed rail - they may have installed a lot of high speed rail systems but abandoned their domestically produced train program and now imports all of their high speed trains. China is as much a leader in high speed rail as they are a leader in passenger airliners - they buy a lot of both, just not from domestic sources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I disagree with your assertion that we are in a better position in the long run than China.

China is a civilization that was here thousands of years before us and will survive thousands of years after us.

There is more to China than just an economy.

The US on the other hand is it’s economy. It isn’t a civilizational people. A trade war with China would hurt the US much more in the long run as it would accelerate the timetable of a national breakup.

Oh my gawd. That's such a self aggrandizing cliche that the Chinese holds about themselves. Thousands of years? So what? China keeps looking longingly to its past but its past is far from being glorious. The traditional Chinese culture valued education and arts for the sake of education and arts, not real actual productivity. They looked down on people who conducted business, even though such people were the economic engine of the society. This is why the country stopped innovating, became insular, and the west rushed past it in terms of technological and economic advancement. In any effective plan of China's future development, looking to the glory days of its past is *not* a part of the equation. Xi may have read San Guo but he realizes that the lessons in those stories don't require the baggage of Chinese history for their deeper meaning. This is decidedly exactly the opposite of the situation in the US, which relies upon the principles of classical liberalism that it was founded on, and will do so for the foreseeable future, because the US has been going through a continuous and coherent evolution.

You talk about "civilization", as if China's current history has some rational attachment to its past. But remember that through communist rule and the cultural revolution, much of the good aspects of China's past has been washed away. The sense of honor and mutual that people used to ascribe to were washed away by decades of poverty and encouraged treachery against each other. There is *NO* moral foundation that gives context to China's current generation. Pursuit of money and wealth is everything. This is why China's current culture is so rife moral corruption, with people selling fakes of everything from hand bags to baby formula. Imagine the mindset of people selling fake baby formula - and we are not talking about some isolated incident, see also the recent vaccine scandal. The young men in China are unmoored in their expectation of reality, all wanting/expecting to attain high levels of wealth in very short order. And the women subscribe to the idea of that no exchange is beyond consideration as long as there is good money in it, to the point that many women in China are open to being a mistress to someone rich, a lifestyle that is celebrated openly. This is also why China is so numb to the authoritarian state that conducts mass surveillance on its citizens, with the population passively accepting their fate like sheep. This is because all of the good foundational beliefs that underpin a culture is completely lost in China.

This is also why Chinese tourists behave so poorly in other countries - because they lack culture, the very thing that they believe they have in abundance through their "thousands of years" of history.

They act this way because life is cheap in China. There are so many people competing for the same jobs, housing, schools, businesses, and yes - even pictures of a museum display. They behave poorly because they have been told by their government that their lives are worthless and therefore if they want something they need to take it for themselves whenever the opportunity presents itself.

This why riding the subway is so awful in Beijing: you'll have grown men push aside and trample elderly ladies for a seat on the train. There's no room for social graces in hyper-competitive environments where resources are constrained by a massive population.

In fact, I posit that in the near term the U.S. will evolve to culturally become more like China as government spending is cut and citizens must compete aggressively with each other for a shrinking piece of the pie.

*shrug* if your argument is that the Chinese government continues to contribute to the destruction of Chinese culture through their devaluation of the dignity and worth of human life, I agree.

Regarding the subway: China isn't the only one with crowds, Japanese in particular seem to be able to deal with the scarcity of space quite politely.

I don't think the US will evolve to be more like China. The US has never subscribed to the "fixed size pie" way of looking at things. It's not like the US was always rich. Even in the days of the wild west, there was value in personal freedom, private property rights, a sense of personal honor through honest hard work, mutual respect, rule of law, and celebration of entrepreneurship. I'm not saying it was perfect, but it served as a the foundation of a culture. No such foundation exists in China. Chinese people are subjects to an authoritarian state, can't own real private property, no sense of honor through hard work, no respect for others, and a corrupt system of laws. They do now value entrepreneurship, but only the kind approved by the central government.

Thats a bunch of bull crap about the so called American "Exceptionalism". The so called individualism gives the wealthy tax cut after tax cuts while the middle and lower class don't get proper education, access to healthcare or even basic standard of life. Having the liberty to own guns when you are using the gun to kill yourself or use it for mass murder isn't a great metric for freedom. We have the lowest educational attainments and our life expectancy as a population in the entire developed world. The freedom to have no healthcare and poor education is NO FREEDOM AT ALL. We do have the freedom to overdose on drugs and our life expectancy,especially white "poorly educated" men's, is falling.

We are free to do what we choose. That is a pillar of American exceptionalism. Stop whining and start doing. I’m exceptional. Why aren’t you?

You are no more exceptional than any other person. Thats just your delusion. You are just claiming other past American achievements as your own. You do not have not much accomplishments of your own. Otherwise you won't be on a forum boasting you are exceptional while you are just wasting your time.

Only a delusional nation with rotting infrastructure, poor education, healthcare and a huge class divide will call itself exceptional. But for Asian Immigrants and their kids we would be in much worse shape in educational, research and STEM accomplishments.

NP. One of the things that makes us exceptional is that we're a multi-cultural society and welcome those immigrants. (Or used to pre-Trump, anyways). China? Not so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not PP. You may not be the real world because China is a leader in web 2.0 technologies, battery tech etc. China sells more electric cars in one month than what we do in 2 years. So wake up and work your ass off because just bleating " we are exceptional" and resting on other people's past accomplishments doesn't guarantee a future.

Leader in Web 2.0? LMAO. China has *ONE* dominant social network, WeChat, which essentially became popular because the Chinese government gave it the stamp of approval, leveraging it for mass content monitoring and censorship, and actively worked against the popularity of Google, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Chinese people don't even have access to Youtube. Anyone making the assertion that China is a leader in web 2.0 is someone who is pursuing a side gig as a comedian, you better have a punchline ready after setting that one up.

Yes, China sells many many electrical cars, but I wouldn't go so far as to claim that they are the leader in battery tech. Battery technology is mostly about chemistry, and US/Japan/EU has a clear lead on battery chemistry, followed by South Korea, then Taiwan, and after that, China. Most of the electric cars sold by China are pretty crappy. They are popular not because they are good vehicles, but because all of the major cities severely limit the number of new license plates given out, and allow electric vehicles to jump the line. Also, electrical vehicles have far fewer driving-day restrictions in the cities. Granted the US gives tax credits to early buyers of electrical cars, and sometimes HOV benefits, but this is a few orders of magnitude less than the amount of support for electric vehicles that China as given. Again, China is not a leader in this because they are good at it, but because the Chinese government has mandated it so for their internal market.

Minimizing the competitor's accomplishments and gloating about our accomplishments IS DELUSIONAL. China is the largest market for pretty much anything. they sell 28 million cars and we sell 16 million. China is the largest market for GM, Boeing, Caterpillar etc. China is the leader in solar and wind energy. China and India are competing in the race for largest solar farm and they change the title between themselves every few months. We are not in the race at all. China has web platform and AI platforms that is already deployed. We are doing everything piecemeal and there is no co-ordinated vision.

Everyone starts by making crappy and they improvise and get better. If we don't make at all, then we don't get any better. It doesn't matter how china became the leader, the fact is that they are the leader in electric cars, high speed rail, solar and wind power. You can't wish away China's accomplishments, especially with oil companies stopping any progress in USA while they get subsidy.

LOL, I note that you've completely ignored the Web 2.0 argument. Yea China is a large market, no one is arguing against that, nor are we discounting the importance of China as a market. It's simply foolish to claim that China is the leader on Web 2.0. Also I have idea what you mean by "China has web platform". The US lets the private sector to figure out what the wants and needs of the people are. This is the best way for vision to be established and thrive. History has shown that central planning is inefficient. For all their AI prowess, what is China doing with that AI technology? They are using it to suppress the freedom of the people. In that context, how does AI help the Chinese people?

You spout off all these things and it's just a bunch of mis-informed bits of information that you likely plucked from things you heard in passing. For example, China is *NOT* a leader in high speed rail - they may have installed a lot of high speed rail systems but abandoned their domestically produced train program and now imports all of their high speed trains. China is as much a leader in high speed rail as they are a leader in passenger airliners - they buy a lot of both, just not from domestic sources.

Again, you are just delusional. China has a thriving private sector and you are clueless. Chinese companies are controlled by the government, yes, but US took over banks,insurance companies, Auto companies in 2009. How is that any different? We are capitalistic in name only, until the government decides to save private companies. China is socialistic in name only as private sectors thrive(Alibaba, Vivo, Oppo, Huawei, dozen auto companies etc etc) but ofcourse government can take over anytime they want, just like the US.

China doesn't own Alibaba as US doesn't own Amazon. China practices pseudo communism, they have political power without democracy. We supposedly have democracy but the loser of election by 3 million votes is president. We are pseudo democratic that way. How useful is democracy when the peoples votes mean nothing because the rich control the government and lobby to make rules they want? A typical American has really not much of a say if he loses health coverage or wants to have better education for his/her kids. How is that democratic?

You are the mis-informed who can't think deeper. You just believe the political talking points. Like I said, America has freedom to own guns that kil themselves, their family or commit mass murder. We do have freedom to be addicted by opioids pushed by powerful corporations. We dont have freedom to send our kids to good schools or have easy and free access to universal healthcare. We ofcourse don't have any freedom to fight against the rich and corporations for our own benefit. How is it any different. Our freedom is a self propagated myth. The rich have the freedom to do what they want, the rest of us have limited freedom to harm ourselves but otherwise we just do what the rich, corporations and political class ALLOW US to do. THINK DEEP, IF YOU CAN.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not PP. You may not be the real world because China is a leader in web 2.0 technologies, battery tech etc. China sells more electric cars in one month than what we do in 2 years. So wake up and work your ass off because just bleating " we are exceptional" and resting on other people's past accomplishments doesn't guarantee a future.

Leader in Web 2.0? LMAO. China has *ONE* dominant social network, WeChat, which essentially became popular because the Chinese government gave it the stamp of approval, leveraging it for mass content monitoring and censorship, and actively worked against the popularity of Google, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Chinese people don't even have access to Youtube. Anyone making the assertion that China is a leader in web 2.0 is someone who is pursuing a side gig as a comedian, you better have a punchline ready after setting that one up.

Yes, China sells many many electrical cars, but I wouldn't go so far as to claim that they are the leader in battery tech. Battery technology is mostly about chemistry, and US/Japan/EU has a clear lead on battery chemistry, followed by South Korea, then Taiwan, and after that, China. Most of the electric cars sold by China are pretty crappy. They are popular not because they are good vehicles, but because all of the major cities severely limit the number of new license plates given out, and allow electric vehicles to jump the line. Also, electrical vehicles have far fewer driving-day restrictions in the cities. Granted the US gives tax credits to early buyers of electrical cars, and sometimes HOV benefits, but this is a few orders of magnitude less than the amount of support for electric vehicles that China as given. Again, China is not a leader in this because they are good at it, but because the Chinese government has mandated it so for their internal market.

Minimizing the competitor's accomplishments and gloating about our accomplishments IS DELUSIONAL. China is the largest market for pretty much anything. they sell 28 million cars and we sell 16 million. China is the largest market for GM, Boeing, Caterpillar etc. China is the leader in solar and wind energy. China and India are competing in the race for largest solar farm and they change the title between themselves every few months. We are not in the race at all. China has web platform and AI platforms that is already deployed. We are doing everything piecemeal and there is no co-ordinated vision.

Everyone starts by making crappy and they improvise and get better. If we don't make at all, then we don't get any better. It doesn't matter how china became the leader, the fact is that they are the leader in electric cars, high speed rail, solar and wind power. You can't wish away China's accomplishments, especially with oil companies stopping any progress in USA while they get subsidy.

LOL, I note that you've completely ignored the Web 2.0 argument. Yea China is a large market, no one is arguing against that, nor are we discounting the importance of China as a market. It's simply foolish to claim that China is the leader on Web 2.0. Also I have idea what you mean by "China has web platform". The US lets the private sector to figure out what the wants and needs of the people are. This is the best way for vision to be established and thrive. History has shown that central planning is inefficient. For all their AI prowess, what is China doing with that AI technology? They are using it to suppress the freedom of the people. In that context, how does AI help the Chinese people?

You spout off all these things and it's just a bunch of mis-informed bits of information that you likely plucked from things you heard in passing. For example, China is *NOT* a leader in high speed rail - they may have installed a lot of high speed rail systems but abandoned their domestically produced train program and now imports all of their high speed trains. China is as much a leader in high speed rail as they are a leader in passenger airliners - they buy a lot of both, just not from domestic sources.

Again, you are just delusional. China has a thriving private sector and you are clueless. Chinese companies are controlled by the government, yes, but US took over banks,insurance companies, Auto companies in 2009. How is that any different? We are capitalistic in name only, until the government decides to save private companies. China is socialistic in name only as private sectors thrive(Alibaba, Vivo, Oppo, Huawei, dozen auto companies etc etc) but ofcourse government can take over anytime they want, just like the US.

China doesn't own Alibaba as US doesn't own Amazon. China practices pseudo communism, they have political power without democracy. We supposedly have democracy but the loser of election by 3 million votes is president. We are pseudo democratic that way. How useful is democracy when the peoples votes mean nothing because the rich control the government and lobby to make rules they want? A typical American has really not much of a say if he loses health coverage or wants to have better education for his/her kids. How is that democratic?

You are the mis-informed who can't think deeper. You just believe the political talking points. Like I said, America has freedom to own guns that kil themselves, their family or commit mass murder. We do have freedom to be addicted by opioids pushed by powerful corporations. We dont have freedom to send our kids to good schools or have easy and free access to universal healthcare. We ofcourse don't have any freedom to fight against the rich and corporations for our own benefit. How is it any different. Our freedom is a self propagated myth. The rich have the freedom to do what they want, the rest of us have limited freedom to harm ourselves but otherwise we just do what the rich, corporations and political class ALLOW US to do. THINK DEEP, IF YOU CAN.

+1 - One of the more insightful posts I've seen in awhile on this forum. Reminds me of what the discussions used to be like before all the trolls and hateful comments took over. Can we get back to more of this? I may not agree with all of this (but most of it), but it does educate and provokes thoughtful conversations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not PP. You may not be the real world because China is a leader in web 2.0 technologies, battery tech etc. China sells more electric cars in one month than what we do in 2 years. So wake up and work your ass off because just bleating " we are exceptional" and resting on other people's past accomplishments doesn't guarantee a future.

Leader in Web 2.0? LMAO. China has *ONE* dominant social network, WeChat, which essentially became popular because the Chinese government gave it the stamp of approval, leveraging it for mass content monitoring and censorship, and actively worked against the popularity of Google, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Chinese people don't even have access to Youtube. Anyone making the assertion that China is a leader in web 2.0 is someone who is pursuing a side gig as a comedian, you better have a punchline ready after setting that one up.

Yes, China sells many many electrical cars, but I wouldn't go so far as to claim that they are the leader in battery tech. Battery technology is mostly about chemistry, and US/Japan/EU has a clear lead on battery chemistry, followed by South Korea, then Taiwan, and after that, China. Most of the electric cars sold by China are pretty crappy. They are popular not because they are good vehicles, but because all of the major cities severely limit the number of new license plates given out, and allow electric vehicles to jump the line. Also, electrical vehicles have far fewer driving-day restrictions in the cities. Granted the US gives tax credits to early buyers of electrical cars, and sometimes HOV benefits, but this is a few orders of magnitude less than the amount of support for electric vehicles that China as given. Again, China is not a leader in this because they are good at it, but because the Chinese government has mandated it so for their internal market.

Minimizing the competitor's accomplishments and gloating about our accomplishments IS DELUSIONAL. China is the largest market for pretty much anything. they sell 28 million cars and we sell 16 million. China is the largest market for GM, Boeing, Caterpillar etc. China is the leader in solar and wind energy. China and India are competing in the race for largest solar farm and they change the title between themselves every few months. We are not in the race at all. China has web platform and AI platforms that is already deployed. We are doing everything piecemeal and there is no co-ordinated vision.

Everyone starts by making crappy and they improvise and get better. If we don't make at all, then we don't get any better. It doesn't matter how china became the leader, the fact is that they are the leader in electric cars, high speed rail, solar and wind power. You can't wish away China's accomplishments, especially with oil companies stopping any progress in USA while they get subsidy.

LOL, I note that you've completely ignored the Web 2.0 argument. Yea China is a large market, no one is arguing against that, nor are we discounting the importance of China as a market. It's simply foolish to claim that China is the leader on Web 2.0. Also I have idea what you mean by "China has web platform". The US lets the private sector to figure out what the wants and needs of the people are. This is the best way for vision to be established and thrive. History has shown that central planning is inefficient. For all their AI prowess, what is China doing with that AI technology? They are using it to suppress the freedom of the people. In that context, how does AI help the Chinese people?

You spout off all these things and it's just a bunch of mis-informed bits of information that you likely plucked from things you heard in passing. For example, China is *NOT* a leader in high speed rail - they may have installed a lot of high speed rail systems but abandoned their domestically produced train program and now imports all of their high speed trains. China is as much a leader in high speed rail as they are a leader in passenger airliners - they buy a lot of both, just not from domestic sources.

Again, you are just delusional. China has a thriving private sector and you are clueless. Chinese companies are controlled by the government, yes, but US took over banks,insurance companies, Auto companies in 2009. How is that any different? We are capitalistic in name only, until the government decides to save private companies. China is socialistic in name only as private sectors thrive(Alibaba, Vivo, Oppo, Huawei, dozen auto companies etc etc) but ofcourse government can take over anytime they want, just like the US.

China doesn't own Alibaba as US doesn't own Amazon. China practices pseudo communism, they have political power without democracy. We supposedly have democracy but the loser of election by 3 million votes is president. We are pseudo democratic that way. How useful is democracy when the peoples votes mean nothing because the rich control the government and lobby to make rules they want? A typical American has really not much of a say if he loses health coverage or wants to have better education for his/her kids. How is that democratic?

You are the mis-informed who can't think deeper. You just believe the political talking points. Like I said, America has freedom to own guns that kil themselves, their family or commit mass murder. We do have freedom to be addicted by opioids pushed by powerful corporations. We dont have freedom to send our kids to good schools or have easy and free access to universal healthcare. We ofcourse don't have any freedom to fight against the rich and corporations for our own benefit. How is it any different. Our freedom is a self propagated myth. The rich have the freedom to do what they want, the rest of us have limited freedom to harm ourselves but otherwise we just do what the rich, corporations and political class ALLOW US to do. THINK DEEP, IF YOU CAN.

+1 - One of the more insightful posts I've seen in awhile on this forum. Reminds me of what the discussions used to be like before all the trolls and hateful comments took over. Can we get back to more of this? I may not agree with all of this (but most of it), but it does educate and provokes thoughtful conversations.

Insightful? How ironic. The PP obviously just rehashes things he/she has heard over the news or talked about by others, with no depth, no substance, and demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the things being talked about. First his comment about Web 2.0, and when that assertion was debunked, he started talking about things like the bullet train. And now that the bullet train claim is debunked is is moving on to other topics like Alibaba. What exactly do you find insightful?

The US regulates banks, but it does not own them. To equate the US regulation of banks to the outright ownership of the banking system in China by the central government is simply illogical and wrong. The private sector of China thrives only for those companies that has been selected by the central government to succeed. Jack Ma of Alibaba only recently came out as being a member of the communist party, putting to rest the long term suspicion that he is controlled by the central government and therefore owes much of his success to the communist party. You may think Alibaba is a success but this level of government nepotism for a private company has caused it to be completely noncompetitive outside of China. Given your ignorance on the topic, I doubt you are aware that several years ago when Alibaba first made its IPO, there was talk that Alibaba would come to the US market and essentially kick Amazon to the side. They claimed that Alibaba has the unique advantage of having established relationship with suppliers, and has demonstrated abilities with operating large ecommerce platforms like Taobao, and has a ready-made payment solution called Alipay. But as history has shown, Alibaba's Aliexpress has been relegated to the sidelines of the US market, essentially unable to make any meaningful in-roads to the US market. Except for some sub segment of bargain hunters and small time resellers, no one in the US uses Aliexpress for anything. On the other hand, Amazon has expanded its reach into Chinese suppliers in a dramatic fashion, being exceptionally successful with their "World Store" initiative. Substantially, any established and mature manufacturer in China currently has "selling on Amazon around the world" a part of their core operating strategy. Amazon has beat Alibaba in its own game of supplier relationships, and it has done so by offering value to suppliers, not by artificially eliminating competitors through government coercion. Therefore, in the ensuing 5 years since Alibaba's IPO, even though Alibaba's near 100% increase in stock price may seem to be good performance, but it pales in comparison to Amazon's 500% rise in the same time. Alibaba lost to Amazon even though it had the backing of the Chinese central government.

Insightful. LAMO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not PP. You may not be the real world because China is a leader in web 2.0 technologies, battery tech etc. China sells more electric cars in one month than what we do in 2 years. So wake up and work your ass off because just bleating " we are exceptional" and resting on other people's past accomplishments doesn't guarantee a future.

Leader in Web 2.0? LMAO. China has *ONE* dominant social network, WeChat, which essentially became popular because the Chinese government gave it the stamp of approval, leveraging it for mass content monitoring and censorship, and actively worked against the popularity of Google, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Chinese people don't even have access to Youtube. Anyone making the assertion that China is a leader in web 2.0 is someone who is pursuing a side gig as a comedian, you better have a punchline ready after setting that one up.

Yes, China sells many many electrical cars, but I wouldn't go so far as to claim that they are the leader in battery tech. Battery technology is mostly about chemistry, and US/Japan/EU has a clear lead on battery chemistry, followed by South Korea, then Taiwan, and after that, China. Most of the electric cars sold by China are pretty crappy. They are popular not because they are good vehicles, but because all of the major cities severely limit the number of new license plates given out, and allow electric vehicles to jump the line. Also, electrical vehicles have far fewer driving-day restrictions in the cities. Granted the US gives tax credits to early buyers of electrical cars, and sometimes HOV benefits, but this is a few orders of magnitude less than the amount of support for electric vehicles that China as given. Again, China is not a leader in this because they are good at it, but because the Chinese government has mandated it so for their internal market.

Minimizing the competitor's accomplishments and gloating about our accomplishments IS DELUSIONAL. China is the largest market for pretty much anything. they sell 28 million cars and we sell 16 million. China is the largest market for GM, Boeing, Caterpillar etc. China is the leader in solar and wind energy. China and India are competing in the race for largest solar farm and they change the title between themselves every few months. We are not in the race at all. China has web platform and AI platforms that is already deployed. We are doing everything piecemeal and there is no co-ordinated vision.

Everyone starts by making crappy and they improvise and get better. If we don't make at all, then we don't get any better. It doesn't matter how china became the leader, the fact is that they are the leader in electric cars, high speed rail, solar and wind power. You can't wish away China's accomplishments, especially with oil companies stopping any progress in USA while they get subsidy.

LOL, I note that you've completely ignored the Web 2.0 argument. Yea China is a large market, no one is arguing against that, nor are we discounting the importance of China as a market. It's simply foolish to claim that China is the leader on Web 2.0. Also I have idea what you mean by "China has web platform". The US lets the private sector to figure out what the wants and needs of the people are. This is the best way for vision to be established and thrive. History has shown that central planning is inefficient. For all their AI prowess, what is China doing with that AI technology? They are using it to suppress the freedom of the people. In that context, how does AI help the Chinese people?

You spout off all these things and it's just a bunch of mis-informed bits of information that you likely plucked from things you heard in passing. For example, China is *NOT* a leader in high speed rail - they may have installed a lot of high speed rail systems but abandoned their domestically produced train program and now imports all of their high speed trains. China is as much a leader in high speed rail as they are a leader in passenger airliners - they buy a lot of both, just not from domestic sources.

Again, you are just delusional. China has a thriving private sector and you are clueless. Chinese companies are controlled by the government, yes, but US took over banks,insurance companies, Auto companies in 2009. How is that any different? We are capitalistic in name only, until the government decides to save private companies. China is socialistic in name only as private sectors thrive(Alibaba, Vivo, Oppo, Huawei, dozen auto companies etc etc) but ofcourse government can take over anytime they want, just like the US.

China doesn't own Alibaba as US doesn't own Amazon. China practices pseudo communism, they have political power without democracy. We supposedly have democracy but the loser of election by 3 million votes is president. We are pseudo democratic that way. How useful is democracy when the peoples votes mean nothing because the rich control the government and lobby to make rules they want? A typical American has really not much of a say if he loses health coverage or wants to have better education for his/her kids. How is that democratic?

You are the mis-informed who can't think deeper. You just believe the political talking points. Like I said, America has freedom to own guns that kil themselves, their family or commit mass murder. We do have freedom to be addicted by opioids pushed by powerful corporations. We dont have freedom to send our kids to good schools or have easy and free access to universal healthcare. We ofcourse don't have any freedom to fight against the rich and corporations for our own benefit. How is it any different. Our freedom is a self propagated myth. The rich have the freedom to do what they want, the rest of us have limited freedom to harm ourselves but otherwise we just do what the rich, corporations and political class ALLOW US to do. THINK DEEP, IF YOU CAN.

+1 - One of the more insightful posts I've seen in awhile on this forum. Reminds me of what the discussions used to be like before all the trolls and hateful comments took over. Can we get back to more of this? I may not agree with all of this (but most of it), but it does educate and provokes thoughtful conversations.

Insightful? How ironic. The PP obviously just rehashes things he/she has heard over the news or talked about by others, with no depth, no substance, and demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the things being talked about. First his comment about Web 2.0, and when that assertion was debunked, he started talking about things like the bullet train. And now that the bullet train claim is debunked is is moving on to other topics like Alibaba. What exactly do you find insightful?

The US regulates banks, but it does not own them. To equate the US regulation of banks to the outright ownership of the banking system in China by the central government is simply illogical and wrong. The private sector of China thrives only for those companies that has been selected by the central government to succeed. Jack Ma of Alibaba only recently came out as being a member of the communist party, putting to rest the long term suspicion that he is controlled by the central government and therefore owes much of his success to the communist party. You may think Alibaba is a success but this level of government nepotism for a private company has caused it to be completely noncompetitive outside of China. Given your ignorance on the topic, I doubt you are aware that several years ago when Alibaba first made its IPO, there was talk that Alibaba would come to the US market and essentially kick Amazon to the side. They claimed that Alibaba has the unique advantage of having established relationship with suppliers, and has demonstrated abilities with operating large ecommerce platforms like Taobao, and has a ready-made payment solution called Alipay. But as history has shown, Alibaba's Aliexpress has been relegated to the sidelines of the US market, essentially unable to make any meaningful in-roads to the US market. Except for some sub segment of bargain hunters and small time resellers, no one in the US uses Aliexpress for anything. On the other hand, Amazon has expanded its reach into Chinese suppliers in a dramatic fashion, being exceptionally successful with their "World Store" initiative. Substantially, any established and mature manufacturer in China currently has "selling on Amazon around the world" a part of their core operating strategy. Amazon has beat Alibaba in its own game of supplier relationships, and it has done so by offering value to suppliers, not by artificially eliminating competitors through government coercion. Therefore, in the ensuing 5 years since Alibaba's IPO, even though Alibaba's near 100% increase in stock price may seem to be good performance, but it pales in comparison to Amazon's 500% rise in the same time. Alibaba lost to Amazon even though it had the backing of the Chinese central government.

Insightful. LAMO

Not PP. Launching adhominem attacks on anyone instead of discussing the issue shows you in poor light. You ignored every other issue and picked on a tangential Amazon vs Alibaba issue is a red herring logical fallacy. You never debunked any of the issue but just stated that you've debunked it, which is called begging the question fallacy.

And then there is the strawman attack fallacy when you attacked a position the PP never stated, all he said was US took over private companies and that is Pseudo capitalism.

There are many more logical fallacies. Please go through the link below and learn.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not PP. You may not be the real world because China is a leader in web 2.0 technologies, battery tech etc. China sells more electric cars in one month than what we do in 2 years. So wake up and work your ass off because just bleating " we are exceptional" and resting on other people's past accomplishments doesn't guarantee a future.

Leader in Web 2.0? LMAO. China has *ONE* dominant social network, WeChat, which essentially became popular because the Chinese government gave it the stamp of approval, leveraging it for mass content monitoring and censorship, and actively worked against the popularity of Google, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Chinese people don't even have access to Youtube. Anyone making the assertion that China is a leader in web 2.0 is someone who is pursuing a side gig as a comedian, you better have a punchline ready after setting that one up.

Yes, China sells many many electrical cars, but I wouldn't go so far as to claim that they are the leader in battery tech. Battery technology is mostly about chemistry, and US/Japan/EU has a clear lead on battery chemistry, followed by South Korea, then Taiwan, and after that, China. Most of the electric cars sold by China are pretty crappy. They are popular not because they are good vehicles, but because all of the major cities severely limit the number of new license plates given out, and allow electric vehicles to jump the line. Also, electrical vehicles have far fewer driving-day restrictions in the cities. Granted the US gives tax credits to early buyers of electrical cars, and sometimes HOV benefits, but this is a few orders of magnitude less than the amount of support for electric vehicles that China as given. Again, China is not a leader in this because they are good at it, but because the Chinese government has mandated it so for their internal market.

Minimizing the competitor's accomplishments and gloating about our accomplishments IS DELUSIONAL. China is the largest market for pretty much anything. they sell 28 million cars and we sell 16 million. China is the largest market for GM, Boeing, Caterpillar etc. China is the leader in solar and wind energy. China and India are competing in the race for largest solar farm and they change the title between themselves every few months. We are not in the race at all. China has web platform and AI platforms that is already deployed. We are doing everything piecemeal and there is no co-ordinated vision.

Everyone starts by making crappy and they improvise and get better. If we don't make at all, then we don't get any better. It doesn't matter how china became the leader, the fact is that they are the leader in electric cars, high speed rail, solar and wind power. You can't wish away China's accomplishments, especially with oil companies stopping any progress in USA while they get subsidy.

LOL, I note that you've completely ignored the Web 2.0 argument. Yea China is a large market, no one is arguing against that, nor are we discounting the importance of China as a market. It's simply foolish to claim that China is the leader on Web 2.0. Also I have idea what you mean by "China has web platform". The US lets the private sector to figure out what the wants and needs of the people are. This is the best way for vision to be established and thrive. History has shown that central planning is inefficient. For all their AI prowess, what is China doing with that AI technology? They are using it to suppress the freedom of the people. In that context, how does AI help the Chinese people?

You spout off all these things and it's just a bunch of mis-informed bits of information that you likely plucked from things you heard in passing. For example, China is *NOT* a leader in high speed rail - they may have installed a lot of high speed rail systems but abandoned their domestically produced train program and now imports all of their high speed trains. China is as much a leader in high speed rail as they are a leader in passenger airliners - they buy a lot of both, just not from domestic sources.

Again, you are just delusional. China has a thriving private sector and you are clueless. Chinese companies are controlled by the government, yes, but US took over banks,insurance companies, Auto companies in 2009. How is that any different? We are capitalistic in name only, until the government decides to save private companies. China is socialistic in name only as private sectors thrive(Alibaba, Vivo, Oppo, Huawei, dozen auto companies etc etc) but ofcourse government can take over anytime they want, just like the US.

China doesn't own Alibaba as US doesn't own Amazon. China practices pseudo communism, they have political power without democracy. We supposedly have democracy but the loser of election by 3 million votes is president. We are pseudo democratic that way. How useful is democracy when the peoples votes mean nothing because the rich control the government and lobby to make rules they want? A typical American has really not much of a say if he loses health coverage or wants to have better education for his/her kids. How is that democratic?

You are the mis-informed who can't think deeper. You just believe the political talking points. Like I said, America has freedom to own guns that kil themselves, their family or commit mass murder. We do have freedom to be addicted by opioids pushed by powerful corporations. We dont have freedom to send our kids to good schools or have easy and free access to universal healthcare. We ofcourse don't have any freedom to fight against the rich and corporations for our own benefit. How is it any different. Our freedom is a self propagated myth. The rich have the freedom to do what they want, the rest of us have limited freedom to harm ourselves but otherwise we just do what the rich, corporations and political class ALLOW US to do. THINK DEEP, IF YOU CAN.

+1 - One of the more insightful posts I've seen in awhile on this forum. Reminds me of what the discussions used to be like before all the trolls and hateful comments took over. Can we get back to more of this? I may not agree with all of this (but most of it), but it does educate and provokes thoughtful conversations.

Insightful? How ironic. The PP obviously just rehashes things he/she has heard over the news or talked about by others, with no depth, no substance, and demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the things being talked about. First his comment about Web 2.0, and when that assertion was debunked, he started talking about things like the bullet train. And now that the bullet train claim is debunked is is moving on to other topics like Alibaba. What exactly do you find insightful?

The US regulates banks, but it does not own them. To equate the US regulation of banks to the outright ownership of the banking system in China by the central government is simply illogical and wrong. The private sector of China thrives only for those companies that has been selected by the central government to succeed. Jack Ma of Alibaba only recently came out as being a member of the communist party, putting to rest the long term suspicion that he is controlled by the central government and therefore owes much of his success to the communist party. You may think Alibaba is a success but this level of government nepotism for a private company has caused it to be completely noncompetitive outside of China. Given your ignorance on the topic, I doubt you are aware that several years ago when Alibaba first made its IPO, there was talk that Alibaba would come to the US market and essentially kick Amazon to the side. They claimed that Alibaba has the unique advantage of having established relationship with suppliers, and has demonstrated abilities with operating large ecommerce platforms like Taobao, and has a ready-made payment solution called Alipay. But as history has shown, Alibaba's Aliexpress has been relegated to the sidelines of the US market, essentially unable to make any meaningful in-roads to the US market. Except for some sub segment of bargain hunters and small time resellers, no one in the US uses Aliexpress for anything. On the other hand, Amazon has expanded its reach into Chinese suppliers in a dramatic fashion, being exceptionally successful with their "World Store" initiative. Substantially, any established and mature manufacturer in China currently has "selling on Amazon around the world" a part of their core operating strategy. Amazon has beat Alibaba in its own game of supplier relationships, and it has done so by offering value to suppliers, not by artificially eliminating competitors through government coercion. Therefore, in the ensuing 5 years since Alibaba's IPO, even though Alibaba's near 100% increase in stock price may seem to be good performance, but it pales in comparison to Amazon's 500% rise in the same time. Alibaba lost to Amazon even though it had the backing of the Chinese central government.

Insightful. LAMO

The PP said US took over banks, Insurance companies and auto companies IN 2009, which is true. He/she didnt say the government OWNS ALL THE BANKS ALL THE TIME. He made that reference to make a point that US is not truly and fully capitalistic and hence we are pseudo capitalistic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not PP. You may not be the real world because China is a leader in web 2.0 technologies, battery tech etc. China sells more electric cars in one month than what we do in 2 years. So wake up and work your ass off because just bleating " we are exceptional" and resting on other people's past accomplishments doesn't guarantee a future.

Leader in Web 2.0? LMAO. China has *ONE* dominant social network, WeChat, which essentially became popular because the Chinese government gave it the stamp of approval, leveraging it for mass content monitoring and censorship, and actively worked against the popularity of Google, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Chinese people don't even have access to Youtube. Anyone making the assertion that China is a leader in web 2.0 is someone who is pursuing a side gig as a comedian, you better have a punchline ready after setting that one up.

Yes, China sells many many electrical cars, but I wouldn't go so far as to claim that they are the leader in battery tech. Battery technology is mostly about chemistry, and US/Japan/EU has a clear lead on battery chemistry, followed by South Korea, then Taiwan, and after that, China. Most of the electric cars sold by China are pretty crappy. They are popular not because they are good vehicles, but because all of the major cities severely limit the number of new license plates given out, and allow electric vehicles to jump the line. Also, electrical vehicles have far fewer driving-day restrictions in the cities. Granted the US gives tax credits to early buyers of electrical cars, and sometimes HOV benefits, but this is a few orders of magnitude less than the amount of support for electric vehicles that China as given. Again, China is not a leader in this because they are good at it, but because the Chinese government has mandated it so for their internal market.

Minimizing the competitor's accomplishments and gloating about our accomplishments IS DELUSIONAL. China is the largest market for pretty much anything. they sell 28 million cars and we sell 16 million. China is the largest market for GM, Boeing, Caterpillar etc. China is the leader in solar and wind energy. China and India are competing in the race for largest solar farm and they change the title between themselves every few months. We are not in the race at all. China has web platform and AI platforms that is already deployed. We are doing everything piecemeal and there is no co-ordinated vision.

Everyone starts by making crappy and they improvise and get better. If we don't make at all, then we don't get any better. It doesn't matter how china became the leader, the fact is that they are the leader in electric cars, high speed rail, solar and wind power. You can't wish away China's accomplishments, especially with oil companies stopping any progress in USA while they get subsidy.

LOL, I note that you've completely ignored the Web 2.0 argument. Yea China is a large market, no one is arguing against that, nor are we discounting the importance of China as a market. It's simply foolish to claim that China is the leader on Web 2.0. Also I have idea what you mean by "China has web platform". The US lets the private sector to figure out what the wants and needs of the people are. This is the best way for vision to be established and thrive. History has shown that central planning is inefficient. For all their AI prowess, what is China doing with that AI technology? They are using it to suppress the freedom of the people. In that context, how does AI help the Chinese people?

You spout off all these things and it's just a bunch of mis-informed bits of information that you likely plucked from things you heard in passing. For example, China is *NOT* a leader in high speed rail - they may have installed a lot of high speed rail systems but abandoned their domestically produced train program and now imports all of their high speed trains. China is as much a leader in high speed rail as they are a leader in passenger airliners - they buy a lot of both, just not from domestic sources.

Again, you are just delusional. China has a thriving private sector and you are clueless. Chinese companies are controlled by the government, yes, but US took over banks,insurance companies, Auto companies in 2009. How is that any different? We are capitalistic in name only, until the government decides to save private companies. China is socialistic in name only as private sectors thrive(Alibaba, Vivo, Oppo, Huawei, dozen auto companies etc etc) but ofcourse government can take over anytime they want, just like the US.

China doesn't own Alibaba as US doesn't own Amazon. China practices pseudo communism, they have political power without democracy. We supposedly have democracy but the loser of election by 3 million votes is president. We are pseudo democratic that way. How useful is democracy when the peoples votes mean nothing because the rich control the government and lobby to make rules they want? A typical American has really not much of a say if he loses health coverage or wants to have better education for his/her kids. How is that democratic?

You are the mis-informed who can't think deeper. You just believe the political talking points. Like I said, America has freedom to own guns that kil themselves, their family or commit mass murder. We do have freedom to be addicted by opioids pushed by powerful corporations. We dont have freedom to send our kids to good schools or have easy and free access to universal healthcare. We ofcourse don't have any freedom to fight against the rich and corporations for our own benefit. How is it any different. Our freedom is a self propagated myth. The rich have the freedom to do what they want, the rest of us have limited freedom to harm ourselves but otherwise we just do what the rich, corporations and political class ALLOW US to do. THINK DEEP, IF YOU CAN.

+1 - One of the more insightful posts I've seen in awhile on this forum. Reminds me of what the discussions used to be like before all the trolls and hateful comments took over. Can we get back to more of this? I may not agree with all of this (but most of it), but it does educate and provokes thoughtful conversations.

Insightful? How ironic. The PP obviously just rehashes things he/she has heard over the news or talked about by others, with no depth, no substance, and demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the things being talked about. First his comment about Web 2.0, and when that assertion was debunked, he started talking about things like the bullet train. And now that the bullet train claim is debunked is is moving on to other topics like Alibaba. What exactly do you find insightful?

The US regulates banks, but it does not own them. To equate the US regulation of banks to the outright ownership of the banking system in China by the central government is simply illogical and wrong. The private sector of China thrives only for those companies that has been selected by the central government to succeed. Jack Ma of Alibaba only recently came out as being a member of the communist party, putting to rest the long term suspicion that he is controlled by the central government and therefore owes much of his success to the communist party. You may think Alibaba is a success but this level of government nepotism for a private company has caused it to be completely noncompetitive outside of China. Given your ignorance on the topic, I doubt you are aware that several years ago when Alibaba first made its IPO, there was talk that Alibaba would come to the US market and essentially kick Amazon to the side. They claimed that Alibaba has the unique advantage of having established relationship with suppliers, and has demonstrated abilities with operating large ecommerce platforms like Taobao, and has a ready-made payment solution called Alipay. But as history has shown, Alibaba's Aliexpress has been relegated to the sidelines of the US market, essentially unable to make any meaningful in-roads to the US market. Except for some sub segment of bargain hunters and small time resellers, no one in the US uses Aliexpress for anything. On the other hand, Amazon has expanded its reach into Chinese suppliers in a dramatic fashion, being exceptionally successful with their "World Store" initiative. Substantially, any established and mature manufacturer in China currently has "selling on Amazon around the world" a part of their core operating strategy. Amazon has beat Alibaba in its own game of supplier relationships, and it has done so by offering value to suppliers, not by artificially eliminating competitors through government coercion. Therefore, in the ensuing 5 years since Alibaba's IPO, even though Alibaba's near 100% increase in stock price may seem to be good performance, but it pales in comparison to Amazon's 500% rise in the same time. Alibaba lost to Amazon even though it had the backing of the Chinese central government.

Insightful. LAMO

Not PP. Launching adhominem attacks on anyone instead of discussing the issue shows you in poor light. You ignored every other issue and picked on a tangential Amazon vs Alibaba issue is a red herring logical fallacy. You never debunked any of the issue but just stated that you've debunked it, which is called begging the question fallacy.

And then there is the strawman attack fallacy when you attacked a position the PP never stated, all he said was US took over private companies and that is Pseudo capitalism.

There are many more logical fallacies. Please go through the link below and learn.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Um, no, you need to heed your own advice and study up on logical fallacies. It's not ad hominem to attack someone's position and question their knowledge level on a subject. This is yet again ironic since the PP called me "delusional", which actually is much closer to ad hominem. How is it a tangent to discuss Alibaba and Amazon when the PP brought up both of these companies in his post? He mentioned Alibaba not once but twice, and held it up as an example of a successful company in the China's "private sector". A discussion of Alibaba's success in comparison to Amazon therefore is useful to illustrate the PP's lack of any substantial knowledge on the issue, and is therefore not a strawman.

Go study what logical fallacies are. Maybe you can find them illustrated in a picture book.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not PP. You may not be the real world because China is a leader in web 2.0 technologies, battery tech etc. China sells more electric cars in one month than what we do in 2 years. So wake up and work your ass off because just bleating " we are exceptional" and resting on other people's past accomplishments doesn't guarantee a future.

Leader in Web 2.0? LMAO. China has *ONE* dominant social network, WeChat, which essentially became popular because the Chinese government gave it the stamp of approval, leveraging it for mass content monitoring and censorship, and actively worked against the popularity of Google, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Chinese people don't even have access to Youtube. Anyone making the assertion that China is a leader in web 2.0 is someone who is pursuing a side gig as a comedian, you better have a punchline ready after setting that one up.

Yes, China sells many many electrical cars, but I wouldn't go so far as to claim that they are the leader in battery tech. Battery technology is mostly about chemistry, and US/Japan/EU has a clear lead on battery chemistry, followed by South Korea, then Taiwan, and after that, China. Most of the electric cars sold by China are pretty crappy. They are popular not because they are good vehicles, but because all of the major cities severely limit the number of new license plates given out, and allow electric vehicles to jump the line. Also, electrical vehicles have far fewer driving-day restrictions in the cities. Granted the US gives tax credits to early buyers of electrical cars, and sometimes HOV benefits, but this is a few orders of magnitude less than the amount of support for electric vehicles that China as given. Again, China is not a leader in this because they are good at it, but because the Chinese government has mandated it so for their internal market.

Minimizing the competitor's accomplishments and gloating about our accomplishments IS DELUSIONAL. China is the largest market for pretty much anything. they sell 28 million cars and we sell 16 million. China is the largest market for GM, Boeing, Caterpillar etc. China is the leader in solar and wind energy. China and India are competing in the race for largest solar farm and they change the title between themselves every few months. We are not in the race at all. China has web platform and AI platforms that is already deployed. We are doing everything piecemeal and there is no co-ordinated vision.

Everyone starts by making crappy and they improvise and get better. If we don't make at all, then we don't get any better. It doesn't matter how china became the leader, the fact is that they are the leader in electric cars, high speed rail, solar and wind power. You can't wish away China's accomplishments, especially with oil companies stopping any progress in USA while they get subsidy.

LOL, I note that you've completely ignored the Web 2.0 argument. Yea China is a large market, no one is arguing against that, nor are we discounting the importance of China as a market. It's simply foolish to claim that China is the leader on Web 2.0. Also I have idea what you mean by "China has web platform". The US lets the private sector to figure out what the wants and needs of the people are. This is the best way for vision to be established and thrive. History has shown that central planning is inefficient. For all their AI prowess, what is China doing with that AI technology? They are using it to suppress the freedom of the people. In that context, how does AI help the Chinese people?

You spout off all these things and it's just a bunch of mis-informed bits of information that you likely plucked from things you heard in passing. For example, China is *NOT* a leader in high speed rail - they may have installed a lot of high speed rail systems but abandoned their domestically produced train program and now imports all of their high speed trains. China is as much a leader in high speed rail as they are a leader in passenger airliners - they buy a lot of both, just not from domestic sources.

Again, you are just delusional. China has a thriving private sector and you are clueless. Chinese companies are controlled by the government, yes, but US took over banks,insurance companies, Auto companies in 2009. How is that any different? We are capitalistic in name only, until the government decides to save private companies. China is socialistic in name only as private sectors thrive(Alibaba, Vivo, Oppo, Huawei, dozen auto companies etc etc) but ofcourse government can take over anytime they want, just like the US.

China doesn't own Alibaba as US doesn't own Amazon. China practices pseudo communism, they have political power without democracy. We supposedly have democracy but the loser of election by 3 million votes is president. We are pseudo democratic that way. How useful is democracy when the peoples votes mean nothing because the rich control the government and lobby to make rules they want? A typical American has really not much of a say if he loses health coverage or wants to have better education for his/her kids. How is that democratic?

You are the mis-informed who can't think deeper. You just believe the political talking points. Like I said, America has freedom to own guns that kil themselves, their family or commit mass murder. We do have freedom to be addicted by opioids pushed by powerful corporations. We dont have freedom to send our kids to good schools or have easy and free access to universal healthcare. We ofcourse don't have any freedom to fight against the rich and corporations for our own benefit. How is it any different. Our freedom is a self propagated myth. The rich have the freedom to do what they want, the rest of us have limited freedom to harm ourselves but otherwise we just do what the rich, corporations and political class ALLOW US to do. THINK DEEP, IF YOU CAN.

+1 - One of the more insightful posts I've seen in awhile on this forum. Reminds me of what the discussions used to be like before all the trolls and hateful comments took over. Can we get back to more of this? I may not agree with all of this (but most of it), but it does educate and provokes thoughtful conversations.

Insightful? How ironic. The PP obviously just rehashes things he/she has heard over the news or talked about by others, with no depth, no substance, and demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the things being talked about. First his comment about Web 2.0, and when that assertion was debunked, he started talking about things like the bullet train. And now that the bullet train claim is debunked is is moving on to other topics like Alibaba. What exactly do you find insightful?

The US regulates banks, but it does not own them. To equate the US regulation of banks to the outright ownership of the banking system in China by the central government is simply illogical and wrong. The private sector of China thrives only for those companies that has been selected by the central government to succeed. Jack Ma of Alibaba only recently came out as being a member of the communist party, putting to rest the long term suspicion that he is controlled by the central government and therefore owes much of his success to the communist party. You may think Alibaba is a success but this level of government nepotism for a private company has caused it to be completely noncompetitive outside of China. Given your ignorance on the topic, I doubt you are aware that several years ago when Alibaba first made its IPO, there was talk that Alibaba would come to the US market and essentially kick Amazon to the side. They claimed that Alibaba has the unique advantage of having established relationship with suppliers, and has demonstrated abilities with operating large ecommerce platforms like Taobao, and has a ready-made payment solution called Alipay. But as history has shown, Alibaba's Aliexpress has been relegated to the sidelines of the US market, essentially unable to make any meaningful in-roads to the US market. Except for some sub segment of bargain hunters and small time resellers, no one in the US uses Aliexpress for anything. On the other hand, Amazon has expanded its reach into Chinese suppliers in a dramatic fashion, being exceptionally successful with their "World Store" initiative. Substantially, any established and mature manufacturer in China currently has "selling on Amazon around the world" a part of their core operating strategy. Amazon has beat Alibaba in its own game of supplier relationships, and it has done so by offering value to suppliers, not by artificially eliminating competitors through government coercion. Therefore, in the ensuing 5 years since Alibaba's IPO, even though Alibaba's near 100% increase in stock price may seem to be good performance, but it pales in comparison to Amazon's 500% rise in the same time. Alibaba lost to Amazon even though it had the backing of the Chinese central government.

Insightful. LAMO

The PP said US took over banks, Insurance companies and auto companies IN 2009, which is true. He/she didnt say the government OWNS ALL THE BANKS ALL THE TIME. He made that reference to make a point that US is not truly and fully capitalistic and hence we are pseudo capitalistic.

No one claimed that the US is a pure capitalistic economy. All economies of the world consists of a combination of free market capitalism and centrally planned social programs. It's a spectrum where some countries have more of the free market component like the US, while other countries have more of the central planned component, like Venezuela. Then you have countries in the middle like those in the EU, and China. That said, the US is a substantially capitalistic country where the default position is for capitalism and social programs are implemented only when the people decide that it is necessary. This is as opposed to a country founded on socialism where the default position is a centrally planned effort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All Americans care about is buying cheap crap and shoving Chick Fil A down their throats. We are screwed!

Why aren’t Democrats embracing a reduction of that cheap Chinese crap dumped on our shores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not PP. You may not be the real world because China is a leader in web 2.0 technologies, battery tech etc. China sells more electric cars in one month than what we do in 2 years. So wake up and work your ass off because just bleating " we are exceptional" and resting on other people's past accomplishments doesn't guarantee a future.

Leader in Web 2.0? LMAO. China has *ONE* dominant social network, WeChat, which essentially became popular because the Chinese government gave it the stamp of approval, leveraging it for mass content monitoring and censorship, and actively worked against the popularity of Google, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Chinese people don't even have access to Youtube. Anyone making the assertion that China is a leader in web 2.0 is someone who is pursuing a side gig as a comedian, you better have a punchline ready after setting that one up.

Yes, China sells many many electrical cars, but I wouldn't go so far as to claim that they are the leader in battery tech. Battery technology is mostly about chemistry, and US/Japan/EU has a clear lead on battery chemistry, followed by South Korea, then Taiwan, and after that, China. Most of the electric cars sold by China are pretty crappy. They are popular not because they are good vehicles, but because all of the major cities severely limit the number of new license plates given out, and allow electric vehicles to jump the line. Also, electrical vehicles have far fewer driving-day restrictions in the cities. Granted the US gives tax credits to early buyers of electrical cars, and sometimes HOV benefits, but this is a few orders of magnitude less than the amount of support for electric vehicles that China as given. Again, China is not a leader in this because they are good at it, but because the Chinese government has mandated it so for their internal market.

Minimizing the competitor's accomplishments and gloating about our accomplishments IS DELUSIONAL. China is the largest market for pretty much anything. they sell 28 million cars and we sell 16 million. China is the largest market for GM, Boeing, Caterpillar etc. China is the leader in solar and wind energy. China and India are competing in the race for largest solar farm and they change the title between themselves every few months. We are not in the race at all. China has web platform and AI platforms that is already deployed. We are doing everything piecemeal and there is no co-ordinated vision.

Everyone starts by making crappy and they improvise and get better. If we don't make at all, then we don't get any better. It doesn't matter how china became the leader, the fact is that they are the leader in electric cars, high speed rail, solar and wind power. You can't wish away China's accomplishments, especially with oil companies stopping any progress in USA while they get subsidy.

LOL, I note that you've completely ignored the Web 2.0 argument. Yea China is a large market, no one is arguing against that, nor are we discounting the importance of China as a market. It's simply foolish to claim that China is the leader on Web 2.0. Also I have idea what you mean by "China has web platform". The US lets the private sector to figure out what the wants and needs of the people are. This is the best way for vision to be established and thrive. History has shown that central planning is inefficient. For all their AI prowess, what is China doing with that AI technology? They are using it to suppress the freedom of the people. In that context, how does AI help the Chinese people?

You spout off all these things and it's just a bunch of mis-informed bits of information that you likely plucked from things you heard in passing. For example, China is *NOT* a leader in high speed rail - they may have installed a lot of high speed rail systems but abandoned their domestically produced train program and now imports all of their high speed trains. China is as much a leader in high speed rail as they are a leader in passenger airliners - they buy a lot of both, just not from domestic sources.

Again, you are just delusional. China has a thriving private sector and you are clueless. Chinese companies are controlled by the government, yes, but US took over banks,insurance companies, Auto companies in 2009. How is that any different? We are capitalistic in name only, until the government decides to save private companies. China is socialistic in name only as private sectors thrive(Alibaba, Vivo, Oppo, Huawei, dozen auto companies etc etc) but ofcourse government can take over anytime they want, just like the US.

China doesn't own Alibaba as US doesn't own Amazon. China practices pseudo communism, they have political power without democracy. We supposedly have democracy but the loser of election by 3 million votes is president. We are pseudo democratic that way. How useful is democracy when the peoples votes mean nothing because the rich control the government and lobby to make rules they want? A typical American has really not much of a say if he loses health coverage or wants to have better education for his/her kids. How is that democratic?

You are the mis-informed who can't think deeper. You just believe the political talking points. Like I said, America has freedom to own guns that kil themselves, their family or commit mass murder. We do have freedom to be addicted by opioids pushed by powerful corporations. We dont have freedom to send our kids to good schools or have easy and free access to universal healthcare. We ofcourse don't have any freedom to fight against the rich and corporations for our own benefit. How is it any different. Our freedom is a self propagated myth. The rich have the freedom to do what they want, the rest of us have limited freedom to harm ourselves but otherwise we just do what the rich, corporations and political class ALLOW US to do. THINK DEEP, IF YOU CAN.

+1 - One of the more insightful posts I've seen in awhile on this forum. Reminds me of what the discussions used to be like before all the trolls and hateful comments took over. Can we get back to more of this? I may not agree with all of this (but most of it), but it does educate and provokes thoughtful conversations.

Insightful? How ironic. The PP obviously just rehashes things he/she has heard over the news or talked about by others, with no depth, no substance, and demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the things being talked about. First his comment about Web 2.0, and when that assertion was debunked, he started talking about things like the bullet train. And now that the bullet train claim is debunked is is moving on to other topics like Alibaba. What exactly do you find insightful?

The US regulates banks, but it does not own them. To equate the US regulation of banks to the outright ownership of the banking system in China by the central government is simply illogical and wrong. The private sector of China thrives only for those companies that has been selected by the central government to succeed. Jack Ma of Alibaba only recently came out as being a member of the communist party, putting to rest the long term suspicion that he is controlled by the central government and therefore owes much of his success to the communist party. You may think Alibaba is a success but this level of government nepotism for a private company has caused it to be completely noncompetitive outside of China. Given your ignorance on the topic, I doubt you are aware that several years ago when Alibaba first made its IPO, there was talk that Alibaba would come to the US market and essentially kick Amazon to the side. They claimed that Alibaba has the unique advantage of having established relationship with suppliers, and has demonstrated abilities with operating large ecommerce platforms like Taobao, and has a ready-made payment solution called Alipay. But as history has shown, Alibaba's Aliexpress has been relegated to the sidelines of the US market, essentially unable to make any meaningful in-roads to the US market. Except for some sub segment of bargain hunters and small time resellers, no one in the US uses Aliexpress for anything. On the other hand, Amazon has expanded its reach into Chinese suppliers in a dramatic fashion, being exceptionally successful with their "World Store" initiative. Substantially, any established and mature manufacturer in China currently has "selling on Amazon around the world" a part of their core operating strategy. Amazon has beat Alibaba in its own game of supplier relationships, and it has done so by offering value to suppliers, not by artificially eliminating competitors through government coercion. Therefore, in the ensuing 5 years since Alibaba's IPO, even though Alibaba's near 100% increase in stock price may seem to be good performance, but it pales in comparison to Amazon's 500% rise in the same time. Alibaba lost to Amazon even though it had the backing of the Chinese central government.

Insightful. LAMO

Not PP. Launching adhominem attacks on anyone instead of discussing the issue shows you in poor light. You ignored every other issue and picked on a tangential Amazon vs Alibaba issue is a red herring logical fallacy. You never debunked any of the issue but just stated that you've debunked it, which is called begging the question fallacy.

And then there is the strawman attack fallacy when you attacked a position the PP never stated, all he said was US took over private companies and that is Pseudo capitalism.

There are many more logical fallacies. Please go through the link below and learn.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Um, no, you need to heed your own advice and study up on logical fallacies. It's not ad hominem to attack someone's position and question their knowledge level on a subject. This is yet again ironic since the PP called me "delusional", which actually is much closer to ad hominem. How is it a tangent to discuss Alibaba and Amazon when the PP brought up both of these companies in his post? He mentioned Alibaba not once but twice, and held it up as an example of a successful company in the China's "private sector". A discussion of Alibaba's success in comparison to Amazon therefore is useful to illustrate the PP's lack of any substantial knowledge on the issue, and is therefore not a strawman.

Go study what logical fallacies are. Maybe you can find them illustrated in a picture book.

We all agree, you are the know all but you don't know what you don't know. You are indeed the crown jewel of American education and capitalism. Bravo!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm stunned by how ignorant most Americans (and Trump supporters) are about how tariffs work. Trump lies blatantly and announces that the Chinese will pay for the tariffs our government imposes on Chinese imported goods. The public believes this lie. Don't schools teach basic history and commerce to kids anymore? It's frightening how stupid we've become.

I am a Trump supporter. Some of the "lies" the MSM attributed to him, in my opinion, are mostly braggadocio by a salesman. You can't always take his words literally. However on this latest trade issue, he went too far. He is either lying or ignorant of how trade works.

- Who pays the tariff?
The importer, aka, American companies pay the tariff. I don't understand why he has to lie about this.

- Trade deficit doesn't equate to "ripping us off" by $500 billion dollar.
Everyone runs a trade deficit with your local grocery store. But that doesn't mean your grocery store is ripping you off. China buys a lot of US treasuries with the trade surplus. With the reduced trade activities, it will add pressure to the interest rate.

It's a combination of Trump lying and being completely clueless about how tariffs work.

Okay. So that’s terrifying.

At least he is not lying. But it's concerning that a Wharton graduate knows so little about macro economics.