Is admiring the vibe of private students a shallow motivation for sending our children to private?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was in college 15 years ago at an Ivy, it was fairly obvious who the private school kids were and who the public school kids were (and for the record, I was a public school kid).

And private school was not just a proxy for wealth. I am from California and went to one of the richest public schools in the country, in an area where there simply were no private schools, and I was still easily identifiable as a public school kid.

I don't know that the private school kids were necessarily "cooler". But it does affect a child's development to be in a class of 100 (like most private schools) versus a class of 500+ (most publics).

At my Ivy the private school kids were indeed more polished. Scratch below the surface and come to find they did way more drugs and the boys were kinda rapey, and the girls tended to have eating disorders. But they did dress nice.

Wow. Lovely generalizations...

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I know exactly what you are taking about, OP. Its not coolness though. It is a trait that you know when you see it. And yes, its real and it does last into adulthood. Public school kids, no matter how rich or how worldly or privileged, never quite have it. Its a trait that is obvious to people who know what it but its almost impossible to put into words. I went to a small wealthy public for high school and a small private for college. I have observed it my whole life.

nailed it

This is such a gross DC thread. I’m from DC, grew up in DC, left for the west coast years ago.
This attitude you have is so provincial and particular to DC, and the South probably as well. It feels so outdated in 2019 but I guess some things never change in DC!

I grew up wealthy in DC, went to private HS, small private college, grew up with and now own a beach house where we "summer" and the posters on this thread sound like a bunch of nouveau riche wannabes. There is a whole world out there that wants nothing to do with uninteresting losers like yourselves.

You haven’t noticed that private school in DC is all about new money these days? Half of my class from SFS is going public.

This. You have to be dumb or new money to spend $50k a year on elementary school. If you attended private school you realize even more how it’s not worth it.

Maybe they can’t afford it. Just because their parents made it work does not mean they have the means to pay for it for their own kids. A lot of kids I know that grew up with wealth and were never “hungry” are not exactly setting the world on fire. They also like to prove they are so down with the people and not like their parents.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I know exactly what you are taking about, OP. Its not coolness though. It is a trait that you know when you see it. And yes, its real and it does last into adulthood. Public school kids, no matter how rich or how worldly or privileged, never quite have it. Its a trait that is obvious to people who know what it but its almost impossible to put into words. I went to a small wealthy public for high school and a small private for college. I have observed it my whole life.

nailed it

This is such a gross DC thread. I’m from DC, grew up in DC, left for the west coast years ago.
This attitude you have is so provincial and particular to DC, and the South probably as well. It feels so outdated in 2019 but I guess some things never change in DC!

I grew up wealthy in DC, went to private HS, small private college, grew up with and now own a beach house where we "summer" and the posters on this thread sound like a bunch of nouveau riche wannabes. There is a whole world out there that wants nothing to do with uninteresting losers like yourselves.

You haven’t noticed that private school in DC is all about new money these days? Half of my class from SFS is going public.

This. You have to be dumb or new money to spend $50k a year on elementary school. If you attended private school you realize even more how it’s not worth it.

This is absolutely true.
- another SFS alum

This is so entitled. It must be easy to judge how worthless your ridiculously privileged education was when you didn't have to spend 13 years of your life at a crappy school. There are a lot of wonderful public schools, but acting like you have this superior knowledge about the worth of one of the best private schools in the country is so gross. Take a few minutes to consider that you have no idea what it is like to sit like a zombie through your classes, to never have any homework, to grade your peers' tests because the teacher is too lazy, to show up for college woefully unprepared. Criticizing "new money" parents (code:earned it themselves) for wanting something different for their own children is the height of obnoxious superiority. The prospect of my children growing up to be ungrateful know-it-alls is the ONLY hesitation I ever have about sending my kids to private.

This is gross—comparong your kids’ school to public school kids who supposedly are zombies who never have homework, grade each others’ tests and are woefully unprepared for college. If your “privilege” is based on lies s was he gross exaggerations about the alternative, then is a very fake “privilege.”

I read that as the poster describing himself as a zombie, not other kids. He seems to have been talking about his own experience. Not elegantly expressed, but not as obnoxious as the poster he was responding to, IMO.

(I have kids in both so see both sides here. )

There’s nothing in his post to indicate he went to public school. He’s drawing a picture of what, in his mind, public school looks like.

He's responding to a personal story with a personal story. He didn't need to say explicitly that he was describing his own experience in public school -- it's very clear from the context.

Look, I have seen some obnoxious private school posters on DCUM before, but this guy is just responding to an obnoxious post that came across as really entitled. Maybe not the most articulate, but the context is clear. If you are trying to say he is calling all public school kids zombies, I think you are really reaching, and trying to find offense.

Maybe that PP can come back and clarify.

Disagree. He didn’t say this was his experience, and he did use language that generalized about public schools. C’mon, if he can afford private school, his public school district doesn’t turn students into zombies.

Admit it. The “privilege” thing is about hanging out with the good and the great. That’s what people are hoping will rub off onto their nouveau riche kids.

I’m the inarticulate poster, and I did indeed attend multiple mediocre public schools all over the country (military brat). I don’t know or care who the “good and great” parents are at their school. They are there for an education.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know exactly what you are taking about, OP. Its not coolness though. It is a trait that you know when you see it. And yes, its real and it does last into adulthood. Public school kids, no matter how rich or how worldly or privileged, never quite have it. Its a trait that is obvious to people who know what it but its almost impossible to put into words. I went to a small wealthy public for high school and a small private for college. I have observed it my whole life.

nailed it

This is such a gross DC thread. I’m from DC, grew up in DC, left for the west coast years ago.
This attitude you have is so provincial and particular to DC, and the South probably as well. It feels so outdated in 2019 but I guess some things never change in DC!

I grew up wealthy in DC, went to private HS, small private college, grew up with and now own a beach house where we "summer" and the posters on this thread sound like a bunch of nouveau riche wannabes. There is a whole world out there that wants nothing to do with uninteresting losers like yourselves.

You haven’t noticed that private school in DC is all about new money these days? Half of my class from SFS is going public.

This. You have to be dumb or new money to spend $50k a year on elementary school. If you attended private school you realize even more how it’s not worth it.

This is absolutely true.
- another SFS alum

This is so entitled. It must be easy to judge how worthless your ridiculously privileged education was when you didn't have to spend 13 years of your life at a crappy school. There are a lot of wonderful public schools, but acting like you have this superior knowledge about the worth of one of the best private schools in the country is so gross. Take a few minutes to consider that you have no idea what it is like to sit like a zombie through your classes, to never have any homework, to grade your peers' tests because the teacher is too lazy, to show up for college woefully unprepared. Criticizing "new money" parents (code:earned it themselves) for wanting something different for their own children is the height of obnoxious superiority. The prospect of my children growing up to be ungrateful know-it-alls is the ONLY hesitation I ever have about sending my kids to private.

This is gross—comparong your kids’ school to public school kids who supposedly are zombies who never have homework, grade each others’ tests and are woefully unprepared for college. If your “privilege” is based on lies s was he gross exaggerations about the alternative, then is a very fake “privilege.”

I read that as the poster describing himself as a zombie, not other kids. He seems to have been talking about his own experience. Not elegantly expressed, but not as obnoxious as the poster he was responding to, IMO.

(I have kids in both so see both sides here. )

There’s nothing in his post to indicate he went to public school. He’s drawing a picture of what, in his mind, public school looks like.

He's responding to a personal story with a personal story. He didn't need to say explicitly that he was describing his own experience in public school -- it's very clear from the context.

Look, I have seen some obnoxious private school posters on DCUM before, but this guy is just responding to an obnoxious post that came across as really entitled. Maybe not the most articulate, but the context is clear. If you are trying to say he is calling all public school kids zombies, I think you are really reaching, and trying to find offense.

Maybe that PP can come back and clarify.

Disagree. He didn’t say this was his experience, and he did use language that generalized about public schools. C’mon, if he can afford private school, his public school district doesn’t turn students into zombies.

Admit it. The “privilege” thing is about hanging out with the good and the great. That’s what people are hoping will rub off onto their nouveau riche kids.

I’m the inarticulate poster, and I did indeed attend multiple mediocre public schools all over the country (military brat). I don’t know or care who the “good and great” parents are at their school. They are there for an education.

It was clear to everyone but the crazy defensive poster that you were talking about your own experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was in college 15 years ago at an Ivy, it was fairly obvious who the private school kids were and who the public school kids were (and for the record, I was a public school kid).

And private school was not just a proxy for wealth. I am from California and went to one of the richest public schools in the country, in an area where there simply were no private schools, and I was still easily identifiable as a public school kid.

I don't know that the private school kids were necessarily "cooler". But it does affect a child's development to be in a class of 100 (like most private schools) versus a class of 500+ (most publics).

At my Ivy the private school kids were indeed more polished. Scratch below the surface and come to find they did way more drugs and the boys were kinda rapey, and the girls tended to have eating disorders. But they did dress nice.

Wow. Lovely generalizations...

Maybe that pp was just giving her experience. Like the zombie pp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Husband and I are from two big families. He and I attended public k-12, mix of public and private higher ed. Our children are young and we've been able to gather insights from older nieces and nephews, who attend a mix of private (Catholic prep to NE boarding) and public (average middle income to affluent zip gold medal), to watch the differences as they mature. The oldest are all pretty motivated and take school seriously, so standardized test scores, sports participation and college placements seem pretty similar. The major differentiator is the private teens are so, for lack of a better word, cool. They stand out at family gatherings (without trying to do so). I guess they're more outgoing, more assertive, they always have some interesting things going on, they're stylish, they seem more confident while also self-deprecating, they're well spoken. They have this joie de vivre "it" factor we want for our children. And no, it's not a snobby thing or a money thing, some of their public school cousins are certainly wealthier. Is this okay to want for our children? I'm not obsessed with grooming an Ivy Leaguer, I just want our kids to have this vibe. Is there a more elegant way to articulate it without sounding like the Mean Girl mom?

Op who knows? There are so many benefits for private in our minds which makes us choose private such as small class size, small advisor/home room groups of 10 students, facilities, dress code, etc ... I think my kids are pretty polite and well mannered but I’m also aware that some of the biggest assholes I know in DC went to private schools in DC and a couple of them actually went to the same schools my kids attend so do I think there’s a magic potion that’s going to make my kids turn out perfect because they went to private schools? No! I think it’s a combination of private schools and also what we reinforce at home and we try to set a good example of being inclusive and nice to all but that being said we are far from perfect and I just hope it all works out in the end!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know exactly what you are taking about, OP. Its not coolness though. It is a trait that you know when you see it. And yes, its real and it does last into adulthood. Public school kids, no matter how rich or how worldly or privileged, never quite have it. Its a trait that is obvious to people who know what it but its almost impossible to put into words. I went to a small wealthy public for high school and a small private for college. I have observed it my whole life.

nailed it

This is such a gross DC thread. I’m from DC, grew up in DC, left for the west coast years ago.
This attitude you have is so provincial and particular to DC, and the South probably as well. It feels so outdated in 2019 but I guess some things never change in DC!

I grew up wealthy in DC, went to private HS, small private college, grew up with and now own a beach house where we "summer" and the posters on this thread sound like a bunch of nouveau riche wannabes. There is a whole world out there that wants nothing to do with uninteresting losers like yourselves.

You haven’t noticed that private school in DC is all about new money these days? Half of my class from SFS is going public.

This. You have to be dumb or new money to spend $50k a year on elementary school. If you attended private school you realize even more how it’s not worth it.

This is absolutely true.
- another SFS alum

This is so entitled. It must be easy to judge how worthless your ridiculously privileged education was when you didn't have to spend 13 years of your life at a crappy school. There are a lot of wonderful public schools, but acting like you have this superior knowledge about the worth of one of the best private schools in the country is so gross. Take a few minutes to consider that you have no idea what it is like to sit like a zombie through your classes, to never have any homework, to grade your peers' tests because the teacher is too lazy, to show up for college woefully unprepared. Criticizing "new money" parents (code:earned it themselves) for wanting something different for their own children is the height of obnoxious superiority. The prospect of my children growing up to be ungrateful know-it-alls is the ONLY hesitation I ever have about sending my kids to private.

Disagree that it’s entitled. If OP has life experience in both - attending a private and then maybe sending their own kid elsewhere - wouldn’t that put them in a reasonable position to have an opinion on how different (or not) the school experiences are?

I attended private and sent my kids public, and I totally agree that the PP comes across as an entitled douchebag. I agree that I would never, ever want my kids to turn out like that poster. Ugh.

There are a bunch of posts quoted here. Who exactly are you talking to?
People who have real life experience in both, whether via themselves or their children, are the most equipped to discuss both options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you have to tell yourself that public school kids are “zombies” who “grade each others’ tests,” then your sense of “privilege” is really flimsy and will be shattered when your kid gets to college. This is beyond silly. My kids have done public and private and were well-prepared for top colleges (the public school kid went to a top ivy and is doing really well there).

Nobody wants to say it, but it seems like “privilege” here actually means going to school with the Obama girls and the really rich and powerful. My public kid went to school with the kids of Jamie Raskin and Tom Perez. But I have to admit, public school can’t hold a candle to the sheer wealth and glitz my private school kid got to rub shoulders with. If “privilege” means “getting invited to Congressional and to peoples’ vacation homes and generally seeing how the truly rich live,” then yes, private schools will help your kid develop comfort with that type of “privilege.”

+1
- Fancy private grad sending my kids to public because private has gotten so disgustingly elitist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have to tell yourself that public school kids are “zombies” who “grade each others’ tests,” then your sense of “privilege” is really flimsy and will be shattered when your kid gets to college. This is beyond silly. My kids have done public and private and were well-prepared for top colleges (the public school kid went to a top ivy and is doing really well there).

Nobody wants to say it, but it seems like “privilege” here actually means going to school with the Obama girls and the really rich and powerful. My public kid went to school with the kids of Jamie Raskin and Tom Perez. But I have to admit, public school can’t hold a candle to the sheer wealth and glitz my private school kid got to rub shoulders with. If “privilege” means “getting invited to Congressional and to peoples’ vacation homes and generally seeing how the truly rich live,” then yes, private schools will help your kid develop comfort with that type of “privilege.”

+1
- Fancy private grad sending my kids to public because private has gotten so disgustingly elitist

Not all private schools are elitist, but you might be too elitist yourself to consider them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know exactly what you are taking about, OP. Its not coolness though. It is a trait that you know when you see it. And yes, its real and it does last into adulthood. Public school kids, no matter how rich or how worldly or privileged, never quite have it. Its a trait that is obvious to people who know what it but its almost impossible to put into words. I went to a small wealthy public for high school and a small private for college. I have observed it my whole life.

nailed it

This is such a gross DC thread. I’m from DC, grew up in DC, left for the west coast years ago.
This attitude you have is so provincial and particular to DC, and the South probably as well. It feels so outdated in 2019 but I guess some things never change in DC!

I grew up wealthy in DC, went to private HS, small private college, grew up with and now own a beach house where we "summer" and the posters on this thread sound like a bunch of nouveau riche wannabes. There is a whole world out there that wants nothing to do with uninteresting losers like yourselves.

You haven’t noticed that private school in DC is all about new money these days? Half of my class from SFS is going public.

This. You have to be dumb or new money to spend $50k a year on elementary school. If you attended private school you realize even more how it’s not worth it.

This is absolutely true.
- another SFS alum

This is so entitled. It must be easy to judge how worthless your ridiculously privileged education was when you didn't have to spend 13 years of your life at a crappy school. There are a lot of wonderful public schools, but acting like you have this superior knowledge about the worth of one of the best private schools in the country is so gross. Take a few minutes to consider that you have no idea what it is like to sit like a zombie through your classes, to never have any homework, to grade your peers' tests because the teacher is too lazy, to show up for college woefully unprepared. Criticizing "new money" parents (code:earned it themselves) for wanting something different for their own children is the height of obnoxious superiority. The prospect of my children growing up to be ungrateful know-it-alls is the ONLY hesitation I ever have about sending my kids to private.

Disagree that it’s entitled. If OP has life experience in both - attending a private and then maybe sending their own kid elsewhere - wouldn’t that put them in a reasonable position to have an opinion on how different (or not) the school experiences are?

I attended private and sent my kids public, and I totally agree that the PP comes across as an entitled douchebag. I agree that I would never, ever want my kids to turn out like that poster. Ugh.

There are a bunch of posts quoted here. Who exactly are you talking to?
People who have real life experience in both, whether via themselves or their children, are the most equipped to discuss both options.

I was talking about the one who talked about his elite private education and summer house and uses nouveau riche as an insult. He comes across as an entitled douchebag.

I've had experience in both too. It is possible to share one's experience with both without being an entitled douchebag. I mean, that poster obviously can't do that, but it's possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have to tell yourself that public school kids are “zombies” who “grade each others’ tests,” then your sense of “privilege” is really flimsy and will be shattered when your kid gets to college. This is beyond silly. My kids have done public and private and were well-prepared for top colleges (the public school kid went to a top ivy and is doing really well there).

Nobody wants to say it, but it seems like “privilege” here actually means going to school with the Obama girls and the really rich and powerful. My public kid went to school with the kids of Jamie Raskin and Tom Perez. But I have to admit, public school can’t hold a candle to the sheer wealth and glitz my private school kid got to rub shoulders with. If “privilege” means “getting invited to Congressional and to peoples’ vacation homes and generally seeing how the truly rich live,” then yes, private schools will help your kid develop comfort with that type of “privilege.”

+1
- Fancy private grad sending my kids to public because private has gotten so disgustingly elitist

Not all private schools are elitist, but you might be too elitist yourself to consider them.

Pretty sure PP was referring to the level of schools most often discussed on this board (and in this thread). No need to pretend to be obtuse.

[Anonymous]

I never understand these posts. The value of private school is based on your own experience, values, risk tolerance etc. whether or not you believe it’s worth it or is not worth it, you are correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Husband and I are from two big families. He and I attended public k-12, mix of public and private higher ed. Our children are young and we've been able to gather insights from older nieces and nephews, who attend a mix of private (Catholic prep to NE boarding) and public (average middle income to affluent zip gold medal), to watch the differences as they mature. The oldest are all pretty motivated and take school seriously, so standardized test scores, sports participation and college placements seem pretty similar. The major differentiator is the private teens are so, for lack of a better word, cool. They stand out at family gatherings (without trying to do so). I guess they're more outgoing, more assertive, they always have some interesting things going on, they're stylish, they seem more confident while also self-deprecating, they're well spoken. They have this joie de vivre "it" factor we want for our children. And no, it's not a snobby thing or a money thing, some of their public school cousins are certainly wealthier. Is this okay to want for our children? I'm not obsessed with grooming an Ivy Leaguer, I just want our kids to have this vibe. Is there a more elegant way to articulate it without sounding like the Mean Girl mom?

I'd say a large part of this is their personality. My child is not cool at all, not outgoing, and can be awkward socially (even with family). That said, the same child can get up and give a very good presentation in any subject and come across as a polished, socially normal person. Can also get up on a stage and act very well. So - to your point - the benefit of private with respect to your observations is that privates have done a great job at teaching public speaking skills and stage presence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Husband and I are from two big families. He and I attended public k-12, mix of public and private higher ed. Our children are young and we've been able to gather insights from older nieces and nephews, who attend a mix of private (Catholic prep to NE boarding) and public (average middle income to affluent zip gold medal), to watch the differences as they mature. The oldest are all pretty motivated and take school seriously, so standardized test scores, sports participation and college placements seem pretty similar. The major differentiator is the private teens are so, for lack of a better word, cool. They stand out at family gatherings (without trying to do so). I guess they're more outgoing, more assertive, they always have some interesting things going on, they're stylish, they seem more confident while also self-deprecating, they're well spoken. They have this joie de vivre "it" factor we want for our children. And no, it's not a snobby thing or a money thing, some of their public school cousins are certainly wealthier. Is this okay to want for our children? I'm not obsessed with grooming an Ivy Leaguer, I just want our kids to have this vibe. Is there a more elegant way to articulate it without sounding like the Mean Girl mom?

I can assure you having gone through privates with four kids, you are seeing a tiny fraction of what they produce. No more or less than public so don't kid yourself. They might be more savvy/confident but that does not always translate to a good thing. Just saying this to be realistic. I have found as many astute, "with it", cool, stylish kids in public.

If anything privates are guaranteed to have a much higher percentage of narcissists is that interests you at all.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know why people are shocked that private school students are more polished; that is a critical component of most private school‘s paideia. I attended a very expensive private school and the difference from public is enormous: the class sizes are very small (every teacher was invested in the success of their few students), the standard of education is very high (with a focus on the classics and the Socratic method of learning) and - most importantly - the students are self-selecting (highly educated parents who value a certain standard of education). There is a post on General Ed here on DCUM right now about kids throwing chairs and cussing out teachers in public. Expensive privates are expensive for a reason: you‘re paying the fee to get your kid with peers like him.