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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]The point of the thread is not:  do TJ students, on average, go to better schools than kids at the base school.  Of course they do.  The kids at TJ are universally in at least the top 10% of a very good system.

The question is:  are TJ's numbers so good because of the school, or because they grouped all of these smart people in one building.

Answering that question is not easy.  What I tried to do is look at the top 10% of the base school.  But, some of those kids, possibly half, ended up at TJ already.
But, there is no way to know what an individual would have done had they gone to the base school.  I know kids from TJ going to good (but not great) colleges (UC schools other than Berkeley, for example).  And I know kids from the base school going to Princeton, Penn, etc.

What is unknown is the effect TJ had in college admissions.  Clearly at the very top -- the top 30-50 kids at TJ, it helped.  They would have  also been in the top 30-50 at the base.  The problem with the base (and TJ too) is separating #20 from #2 or #1.  These kids probably have nearly straight A's -- the difference in GPA is the number of honors/AP classes.  So, if a kid is in band, they can not take as many AP classes as someone not in band (band takes up 1 period in each year which could otherwise be used for AP/Honors).   Also, if a kid wan unable to take a class over the summer, that means there are fewer slots during the year.  These are factors that have nothing to do with the quality of the student; the schools know that.

At the base school, though, the top 20-30 students do not all get into elite schools. Some might, some won't.  But, maybe 5 of them would have been in the top 20-30 students at TJ.  Those kids can get into the elites:  MIT, Harvard, Princeton, etc.  So if you are in that small group, it definitely helps get into the better reputation of college (I can have a whole other argument if that makes a difference, but that is for another thread).   Beyond that, the top 50 kids at the base school to just as well and the typical (non-top kid) at TJ.  But, the kid from TJ had to work so much harder.

The hard work is a double edged sword.  On the one hand, it is a lot more stress which is not good, but they may not be surprised by the work load at college.  again the way to understand the impact is to look at the college performance of TJ vs base students, correcting for the difference in average intelligence.  I do not have access to the data, though.

[/quote]

Thank you! A voice of reason! I agree with you![/quote]

I am PP and the person who presented the madison numbers.  This is the point I was trying to make.  I will also add that there other (non college) reasons to go to TJ.  The opportunities for hands-on learning exceed those at any other school in the county, and possibly the country.[/quote]

I won’t disagree with you on that![/quote]

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