Some facts about Holistic Admissions Criteria from Stanford Daily

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So where is this kid going to college?

One of the nine schools was legally prohibited from considering "race" in admission decisions and this one school was the only one that accepted the kid.

[Anonymous]

I agree, 30 colleges is a heck of a lot....how does one student even craft quality applications to 30 schools, without 'help'? And for all of them to turn him down, that screams 'problem applicant'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree, 30 colleges is a heck of a lot....how does one student even craft quality applications to 30 schools, without 'help'? And for all of them to turn him down, that screams 'problem applicant'

It's called the Common Application

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The PPs are not saying he's the only one. They're saying that it seems odd that 30 schools would reject this one kid with perfect qualifications solely because of the fact that he is Asian. Statistically, it doesn't make sense. Sending a perfect application to 30 schools, even with the Asian box checked, should have resulted in at least some acceptances. For the application to be rejected across the board in this way, there was most likely something in the application that gave pause to 30 sets of admissions officers. I agree with the PP that it was probably something in the essays or the recommendations.

It is statistically unlikely that 30 different schools would decide that this is the Asian kid we're not accepting, even though he is the perfect candidate in every other way.

I think this is possible since I know of an Asian American kid who had done extremely well overall at a very good school (perfect gpa, 2360 SAT (800, 800, 760), all 800s on SAT IIs, all 5s on many APs, leadership positions in key student groups, original STEM research which was highly advanced (graduate school level), very impressive internships, many hours of volunteering, great recommendation letters (seen them both were 11/10), great essays (reviewed and evaluated by several English teachers to be excellent and seen them 9/10), multiple national level awards such as debate awards etc. etc. Really passionate and curious about learning which showed through various EC activities and leadership positions.

And yet, this kid applied to 9 schools and was rejected by 8 schools and accepted by only 1 school. His race (and no "Hooks") was only thing that got in the way.

Are you this kid's guidance counselor? Otherwise, it is unusual to read the essays and recommendations for a person that one "knows of." Also, if the candidate and other people are reading the recs, that means that the candidate did not waive the right to read the recs. College admissions officials are wary when they see a rec without the right to read waived. They know the writer if the rec may not be totally frank when he/she knows the student could read the rec. Most candidates check the box to waive the right to read the recs.

I also don't understand the rating of the essays above. Different colleges are looking for different qualities, which would make it difficult for an outsider to rate essays across the board.

The kid "waived the right to view" the recommendation letters but the teachers voluntarily showed the LOR to the student and they were shown to me by the student. They were amazing and absolutely 11/10 since the teachers could not have written better letters. They were basically saying any college would be doing themselves a favor by recruiting this kid and cited specific examples of work done and specific observations regarding conduct, character , leadershipo demonstrated etc. Definitely 11/10 for both.

In addition, I have seen many college essays and I thought they were very good and several English teachers who reviewed the essays also thought they were very good as well.

I have helped my own kids with college applications, also some of their friends, and taught in a secondary school many years ago, and I have never heard of showing recommendations to the students. Very unusual.

And again, essays are looked at differently by different colleges. What is seen as good by a state school can be viewed differently by a private liberal arts college. Different schools will have different standards, so really difficult to judge by those not on the admissions committee.

An outsider really can't know how one student's application stacks up against others in an application cycle. It depends very much on the overall quality of the applications for the same class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The PPs are not saying he's the only one. They're saying that it seems odd that 30 schools would reject this one kid with perfect qualifications solely because of the fact that he is Asian. Statistically, it doesn't make sense. Sending a perfect application to 30 schools, even with the Asian box checked, should have resulted in at least some acceptances. For the application to be rejected across the board in this way, there was most likely something in the application that gave pause to 30 sets of admissions officers. I agree with the PP that it was probably something in the essays or the recommendations.

It is statistically unlikely that 30 different schools would decide that this is the Asian kid we're not accepting, even though he is the perfect candidate in every other way.

I think this is possible since I know of an Asian American kid who had done extremely well overall at a very good school (perfect gpa, 2360 SAT (800, 800, 760), all 800s on SAT IIs, all 5s on many APs, leadership positions in key student groups, original STEM research which was highly advanced (graduate school level), very impressive internships, many hours of volunteering, great recommendation letters (seen them both were 11/10), great essays (reviewed and evaluated by several English teachers to be excellent and seen them 9/10), multiple national level awards such as debate awards etc. etc. Really passionate and curious about learning which showed through various EC activities and leadership positions.

And yet, this kid applied to 9 schools and was rejected by 8 schools and accepted by only 1 school. His race (and no "Hooks") was only thing that got in the way.

Are you this kid's guidance counselor? Otherwise, it is unusual to read the essays and recommendations for a person that one "knows of." Also, if the candidate and other people are reading the recs, that means that the candidate did not waive the right to read the recs. College admissions officials are wary when they see a rec without the right to read waived. They know the writer if the rec may not be totally frank when he/she knows the student could read the rec. Most candidates check the box to waive the right to read the recs.

I also don't understand the rating of the essays above. Different colleges are looking for different qualities, which would make it difficult for an outsider to rate essays across the board.

The kid "waived the right to view" the recommendation letters but the teachers voluntarily showed the LOR to the student and they were shown to me by the student. They were amazing and absolutely 11/10 since the teachers could not have written better letters. They were basically saying any college would be doing themselves a favor by recruiting this kid and cited specific examples of work done and specific observations regarding conduct, character , leadershipo demonstrated etc. Definitely 11/10 for both.

In addition, I have seen many college essays and I thought they were very good and several English teachers who reviewed the essays also thought they were very good as well.

I have helped my own kids with college applications, also some of their friends, and taught in a secondary school many years ago, and I have never heard of showing recommendations to the students. Very unusual.

And again, essays are looked at differently by different colleges. What is seen as good by a state school can be viewed differently by a private liberal arts college. Different schools will have different standards, so really difficult to judge by those not on the admissions committee.

An outsider really can't know how one student's application stacks up against others in an application cycle. It depends very much on the overall quality of the applications for the same class.

Anonymous wrote:
So where is this kid going to college?


One of the nine schools was legally prohibited from considering "race" in admission decisions and this one school was the only one that accepted the kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree, 30 colleges is a heck of a lot....how does one student even craft quality applications to 30 schools, without 'help'? And for all of them to turn him down, that screams 'problem applicant'

It's called the Common Application

But most of the top ranked schools require essays beyond the common app essay, mostly unique to each school. You can't just press a button and apply to 30 top schools with just the common app essay. It's a lot of work to make sure you're putting together the correct requirements for each school and meeting deadlines for even the now standard 10-15 schools, I can only imagine doubling or tripling that amount of work.

And then the expense... $60-75 per app plus charges for sending test scores and transcripts. Whew, a lot to keep track of!

[Anonymous]

So University of California or University of Michigan? If so, he's at a great school.

[Anonymous]

And 0 for 30 is a very different outcome than 1 out of 9. It's easy to construct a list of 8 schools that a high stats kid could be shut out of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree, 30 colleges is a heck of a lot....how does one student even craft quality applications to 30 schools, without 'help'? And for all of them to turn him down, that screams 'problem applicant'

It's called the Common Application

Most schools DO use the common app, but then there are still supplements, another few pages to plow through per school....Not like you can complete a quality supplement in a day, except for schools which have 'optional' essays and addenda. If it's a school in high demand, the optional portions aren't really optional. Some top schools and large state schools don't do the common app....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So University of California or University of Michigan? If so, he's at a great school.

And mean time a black kid with 3.6 gpa and 2050 SAT and nothing major to show for gets admitted to an Ivy League school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So University of California or University of Michigan? If so, he's at a great school.

And mean time a black kid with 3.6 gpa and 2050 SAT and nothing major to show for gets admitted to an Ivy League school.

Once again, SAT scores underpredict actual performance by black kids in college. It's fair to take lower SAT scores if the SAT score doesn't measure actual performance.

The test is not a contest. It isn't a horse race, where the winner takes all. It's supposed to be one way to predict future performance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So University of California or University of Michigan? If so, he's at a great school.

These schools are not allowed to use race in the admission process but still use race by calling the admission process "holistic". M<aybe bit less obvious than colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So University of California or University of Michigan? If so, he's at a great school.

And mean time a black kid with 3.6 gpa and 2050 SAT and nothing major to show for gets admitted to an Ivy League school.

Once again, SAT scores underpredict actual performance by black kids in college. It's fair to take lower SAT scores if the SAT score doesn't measure actual performance.

The test is not a contest. It isn't a horse race, where the winner takes all. It's supposed to be one way to predict future performance.

Actually many black kids at the top colleges struggle academically and have relatively poor graduation rate. They also tend to gravitate towards "softer" majors like sociology, psychology, African Studies etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So University of California or University of Michigan? If so, he's at a great school.

And mean time a black kid with 3.6 gpa and 2050 SAT and nothing major to show for gets admitted to an Ivy League school.

Once again, SAT scores underpredict actual performance by black kids in college. It's fair to take lower SAT scores if the SAT score doesn't measure actual performance.

The test is not a contest. It isn't a horse race, where the winner takes all. It's supposed to be one way to predict future performance.

If you have a lot of faith in standardized tests, you tend to believe that college admissions should be based solely on test results. Different colleges have varying levels of reliance on standardized test scores. For those who prefer test score based college admissions, you can research schools and find quite a number out there that automatically admit students based on test scores and GPAs. The big state universities tend to admit in this way. Off the top of my head, I believe that Oklahoma, Alabama, Indiana, Iowa, Arizona and others have charts on their websites that show what GPA and test scores an applicant needs for acceptance and even merit-based scholarships. If you are willing to do the research, you can find schools out there that are a good fit.

Many US schools don't rely heavily on test scores, so their admissions process is more involved and tries to take into account a fuller picture of the applicant and the qualities they would bring to the school. Different schools have different ways of approaching the application process. One is not right and another wrong, they are just different and looking for different qualities in the students they accept. Do your research and apply to the schools that fit your needs best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So University of California or University of Michigan? If so, he's at a great school.

And mean time a black kid with 3.6 gpa and 2050 SAT and nothing major to show for gets admitted to an Ivy League school.

I've got no problem with that. Both kids seem capable of doing the work. No one's entitled to admission to an Ivy. If the school is using its admissions process to put together a racially diverse class rather than to maximize the standardized test scores of its incoming class, that's a decision I think it should be allowed to make.

Out of curiosity, why do you single out this hypothetical black kid as the student that got the spot you believe was rightfully the Asian kid's? Are you assuming that every white kid who was admitted had credentials comparable or superior to the Asian kid's?