LEMON ROAD AAP CENTER

[Anonymous]

FCPS and the School board should be to blame for these AAP boundary fiasco's of the past. Giving less than a years notice is bonkers. At least now they are trying to correct themselves. Earlier this year a notice went out to haycock, Chesterbrook and Franklin Sherman that basically stated "In the Future" Chesterbrook and Franklin Sherman may become "Centers" thus notifying new AAP parents that change could definitely be coming. Its probably a few years away, if it even occurs, but at least they forewarned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS and the School board should be to blame for these AAP boundary fiasco's of the past. Giving less than a years notice is bonkers. At least now they are trying to correct themselves. Earlier this year a notice went out to haycock, Chesterbrook and Franklin Sherman that basically stated "In the Future" Chesterbrook and Franklin Sherman may become "Centers" thus notifying new AAP parents that change could definitely be coming. Its probably a few years away, if it even occurs, but at least they forewarned.

People were complaining on here for years about the overcrowding at Haycock and they knew for many years when the renovation was scheduled as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, the Haycock kids and families didn't kick out the Shrevewood, Lemon Road, or Westgate kids. Everyone in the county is sick of hearing about Greenbriar West and Haycock and how the kids from other schools should be or should have been entitled to stay in schools that were bursting at the seems. Both of those schools were over 1000 students and the situation was dangerous. They should have broken up both schools years before they did without grandfathering. CPS bent over backwards because of all the whining of parents like you at Shrevewood. Your high school is Marshall. Why wouldn't you want to help all the kids eventually attending Marshall to do well? What is rich is that Shrevewood parents begged to stay at Haycock and then you now say it's fine for them to have 35 children in grades 4-6 while they have under 20 in an AAP class.

It's not the same group of parents. There may be some overlap, but not much and the Shrevewood LLIV booster does not have older kids (if you're from Shevewood, it is pretty easy to figure out who she is).

By the way, how come no mention of Bailey's? At the time of the Haycock overcrowding/rediatricti game, Bailey's was much worse off than Haycock but got very little attention and there was very little drama over their split into 2 buildings. I think it comes down to a more supportive community, which I think Haycock lacked. Maybe Haycock has it now. I wouldn't know. It will be interesting to see how it plays out when the Chesterbrook and FS kids are eliminated from Haycock.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, the Haycock kids and families didn't kick out the Shrevewood, Lemon Road, or Westgate kids. Everyone in the county is sick of hearing about Greenbriar West and Haycock and how the kids from other schools should be or should have been entitled to stay in schools that were bursting at the seems. Both of those schools were over 1000 students and the situation was dangerous. They should have broken up both schools years before they did without grandfathering. CPS bent over backwards because of all the whining of parents like you at Shrevewood. Your high school is Marshall. Why wouldn't you want to help all the kids eventually attending Marshall to do well? What is rich is that Shrevewood parents begged to stay at Haycock and then you now say it's fine for them to have 35 children in grades 4-6 while they have under 20 in an AAP class.

It's not the same group of parents. There may be some overlap, but not much and the Shrevewood LLIV booster does not have older kids (if you're from Shevewood, it is pretty easy to figure out who she is).

By the way, how come no mention of Bailey's? At the time of the Haycock overcrowding/rediatricti game, Bailey's was much worse off than Haycock but got very little attention and there was very little drama over their split into 2 buildings. I think it comes down to a more supportive community, which I think Haycock lacked. Maybe Haycock has it now. I wouldn't know. It will be interesting to see how it plays out when the Chesterbrook and FS kids are eliminated from Haycock.

Baileys got split and now kids are in an office building. They are not better off than Haycock or Shrevewood kids. I hardly think the move from Haycock to Lemon Road or Shrevewood was very dramatic. All three of those schools are very close to each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, the Haycock kids and families didn't kick out the Shrevewood, Lemon Road, or Westgate kids. Everyone in the county is sick of hearing about Greenbriar West and Haycock and how the kids from other schools should be or should have been entitled to stay in schools that were bursting at the seems. Both of those schools were over 1000 students and the situation was dangerous. They should have broken up both schools years before they did without grandfathering. CPS bent over backwards because of all the whining of parents like you at Shrevewood. Your high school is Marshall. Why wouldn't you want to help all the kids eventually attending Marshall to do well? What is rich is that Shrevewood parents begged to stay at Haycock and then you now say it's fine for them to have 35 children in grades 4-6 while they have under 20 in an AAP class.

It's not the same group of parents. There may be some overlap, but not much and the Shrevewood LLIV booster does not have older kids (if you're from Shevewood, it is pretty easy to figure out who she is).

By the way, how come no mention of Bailey's? At the time of the Haycock overcrowding/rediatricti game, Bailey's was much worse off than Haycock but got very little attention and there was very little drama over their split into 2 buildings. I think it comes down to a more supportive community, which I think Haycock lacked. Maybe Haycock has it now. I wouldn't know. It will be interesting to see how it plays out when the Chesterbrook and FS kids are eliminated from Haycock.

Bailey's probably didn't come up in this thread because it's not an AAP center.

The crowding there did get attention, but there was an impasse for a long time over what to do. There was space to build another elementary school at the Glasgow MS site, but Penny Gross blocked it after neighborhood residents complained about the possibility of more traffic. There was a proposal to use space at nearby Woodrow Wilson Library as a classroom annex, but Penny Gross blocked that, too. Finally, FCPS got tired of the stonewalling from the local supervisor and acquired the vacant office building.

Had there been a nearby elementary school with room available to absorb the overcrowding (the situation at Lemon Road a few years ago vis-a-vis Haycock), the dynamic at Bailey's might have been different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 58 3rd grade students according to the data (22+21+15).

So you McLean people are advocating that we get two classes of 29 students each. Who's being the jerk here? And note that 29 students is over the 2015-16 FCPS class size cap.

Can we also get your rich student body so the PTA has a bunch of funding to pay for enrichment activities too? How about we get all your other benefits - kids who are not hungry, in comfortable home settings, who don't have to learn finances so early in life because their family is just getting by economically, etc. etc.

You're just upset that your McLean snowflakes have more classmates than us common people.

Other schools in more moderate areas should push FCPS to get more staffing. And perhaps Shrevewood families in that 22 person class may have a small gripe and ask about getting it down to 20 (but they currently don't bc it is not a meaningful difference to them).

You McLean people are in overcrowded schools because you don't want to redraw boundaries and move into "non-McLean" schools. What would it do to your self image, property values, etc. if your kids aren't going to a McLean school? Simple solution is to redraw boundaries and spread those kids around and, gasp!, go to schools like Westgate and Lemon Road and Timber Lane and even Shrevewood.

But instead you agitate to keep your kids in those McLean schools, kick out kids who you don't believe "deserve" to be in "your" McLean schools (see Haycock), complain about class sizes, agitate for more teachers, agitate for more physical space and then complain about trailers, etc. etc.

I ask again, who is being the jerk here?

NP here. Having seen that you're slinging a lot of mud at "McLean people" only to find out that the person with whom you've been arguing the most doesn't even live in McLean, I'd say that you probably are winning that contest. Believe it or not, there are people saddled with very large classes in places other than McLean or Haycock who think the idea of LLIV-only classes at Shrevewood with 15 kids is nuts.

Would it change your mind if it was 19 kids?

With 58 kids there is going to be 3 teachers. Or should we have 2 teachers and one aide?

If you agree that there should be 3 teachers then it is a question of 15 vs 19 kids - and that allocation is really a discussion for within the Shrevewood community.

Perhaps they should have cut it to 2 teachers this year - but next year (2015-16), it's going to be four 3rd grade classrooms probably (115 kids in 2nd this year) - so it's better to maintain continuity and add one 3rd grade teacher vs. dropping one this year and then adding 2 for next year.

Teachers within the building are not fungible - you can't have them teach 1st this year and then 3rd next year, etc. Some people in this thread are arguing that implicitly when they talk about too-large class sizes in the K grade at Shrevewood; i.e. they want to shift that 3rd grade teacher to K? And teacher are not automatons - they desire job security just like everyone else. If you fired one 3rd grade teacher this year and then go back and have to hire 2 3rd grade teachers next year what kid of community are you building at the school? No one - teachers, administrators, parents - want teachers that are on year-to-year assignments at a school.

People here bitch at the headlines without looking at the facts and the nuance involved in the situation. Such criticism is especially rich coming from the Haycock folks who kicked out the Shrevewood kids.

I understand the criticism from other more average (like Shrevewood) communities - "average" = in and around the FCPS FARMS average for a lack of better rubric. To those folks, again it's a question of 15 vs 19 kids - I'm sure you are unhappy with either number - and whether we should flex our staffing at the cost of having a transitory staff body. If your kid is in a 30+ person classroom, I'm sure you don't like our GE class of 20 kids also, so I don't get why this is supposedly an AAP thing.

teachers at our old FCPS switched grades ALL OF THE TIME. THe 1st grade teacher my kid had had previously taught 5th then moved to K for two years then to 1st. The last year we were there several teachers moved from 3rd to 4th. This was all due to class size and obliviously wanting to stay at the school. Our current FCPS just sent a note about a few teachers switching grades for next year. So two schools we've been at do it I'm sure many others do as well.

[Anonymous]

I think an average of 24-25 students per teacher at Shrevewood is fine for this school. I just don't agree with the way the teachers were distributed.

[Anonymous]

Makes you question the selectivity of the program. One would think that an AAP class WOULD have fewer students than a gen Ed classroom because there are by definition fewer "gifted" students than there are average/above average kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Makes you question the selectivity of the program. One would think that an AAP class WOULD have fewer students than a gen Ed classroom because there are by definition fewer "gifted" students than there are average/above average kids.

Yes, but generally they fill the class with kids selected by the principal because the principal thinks they can keep up (maybe they don't test well or parents didn't refer or didn't appeal). The dirty little secret is that many of the kids in the AAP classes aren't "gifted" or even advanced either. Many of the Gen Ed kids could keep up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Makes you question the selectivity of the program. One would think that an AAP class WOULD have fewer students than a gen Ed classroom because there are by definition fewer "gifted" students than there are average/above average kids.

Yes, but generally they fill the class with kids selected by the principal because the principal thinks they can keep up (maybe they don't test well or parents didn't refer or didn't appeal). The dirty little secret is that many of the kids in the AAP classes aren't "gifted" or even advanced either. Many of the Gen Ed kids could keep up.

+100,000,000!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Makes you question the selectivity of the program. One would think that an AAP class WOULD have fewer students than a gen Ed classroom because there are by definition fewer "gifted" students than there are average/above average kids.

True, but the model FCPS follows is exactly the opposite. Far more AAP kids than Gen Ed, in our school and the surrounding area (Vienna, Great Falls). I feel like we're living in Lake Wobegon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Makes you question the selectivity of the program. One would think that an AAP class WOULD have fewer students than a gen Ed classroom because there are by definition fewer "gifted" students than there are average/above average kids.

True, but the model FCPS follows is exactly the opposite. Far more AAP kids than Gen Ed, in our school and the surrounding area (Vienna, Great Falls). I feel like we're living in Lake Wobegon.

God Bless Garrison Keillor! Lake Wobegon -- where ALL the kids are above average..

Couldn't they just train the teachers to administer group differentiation within the classroom? The truly gifted (à la Jacob Barnett) can't be accommodated by FCPS anyway. (The parents of those kids know this all to well and invest in other academic options)

[Anonymous]

Talking about who does or doesn't get into AAP has nothing to do with Lemon Road or it's surrounding schools and nothing to do with the class makeup at Shrevewood or Lemon Road. Principals are supposed to balance their classrooms and obviously provide more support in the younger years and to those students who are behind verses ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Makes you question the selectivity of the program. One would think that an AAP class WOULD have fewer students than a gen Ed classroom because there are by definition fewer "gifted" students than there are average/above average kids.

True, but the model FCPS follows is exactly the opposite. Far more AAP kids than Gen Ed, in our school and the surrounding area (Vienna, Great Falls). I feel like we're living in Lake Wobegon.

God Bless Garrison Keillor! Lake Wobegon -- where ALL the kids are above average..

Couldn't they just train the teachers to administer group differentiation within the classroom? The truly gifted (à la Jacob Barnett) can't be accommodated by FCPS anyway. (The parents of those kids know this all to well and invest in other academic options)

This would possibly require an additional teacher the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Talking about who does or doesn't get into AAP has nothing to do with Lemon Road or it's surrounding schools and nothing to do with the class makeup at Shrevewood or Lemon Road. Principals are supposed to balance their classrooms and obviously provide more support in the younger years and to those students who are behind verses ahead.

Exactly -- so you agree that there shouldn't be combination classrooms for kindergarteners and first graders consisting of 30+ students?