LEMON ROAD AAP CENTER

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the problem is not with the Shrevewood principal skewing class sizes. It is with the AAP parents still being allowed to opt to send their children to a Center when there is now a perfectly good AAP program offered at the local school.

LLIV is not intentionally designed to be a smaller class. I recognize that this has been the outcome, but if ALL the AAP students opted to stay rather than go to the center, there would not be a disparity in class size in any of the grade levels that currently have AAP at Shrevewood. Or, at least it would only be a difference of about 3-4 kids.

But as it is, we have this bizarre choice to make that basically compares apples to apples...but makes the LLIV principal and the Center principal feel as though they need to demonstrate that their apple is somehow shinier than the other school's apple.

For example, when we attended the Center presentation, parents were told that one advantage of a Center is that "at the Center, we GUARANTEE your child will be in a class with ONLY AAP children...and (beware! implied) a Local Level IV principal cannot offer that, and therefor the 'integrity' of the program 'may be' compromised." Those were the words used. So if the LLIV parents seem threatened by having the LLIV principal hand-pick a few kids to add to the AAP class to even out the numbers, it's because we were specifically told by the AAP Center that this practice "may" compromise the "integrity" of the program.

I'm not trying to Center Bash here, but I happen to believe that's garbage because there are many children who were not county-identified as AAP eligible who easily could thrive in the AAP class, but there are some parents who were likely influenced by this claim. (In the Center's defense, though, I get that they needed to have a strong pitch. My impression was that they needed "our" kids to go there in order to make the numbers work to have two classes per grade level. It was also pretty clear in the presentation that if not enough of us opted to send our kids to the Center, then they would end up with ONE AAP class per grade level that could potentially contain somewhere between 28-32 kids!)

The problem is, this puts the LLIV principal in a terrible bind! If she does choose to add in some hand-picked non-AAP children to the class in order to balance the numbers, some of the AAP parents will surely panic and be worry that they aren't getting the same experience as the Center program--because that is what they were told.

It's just a bad system to pit the center vs. LLIV and put the choice into the hands of the parents. And the principal is in an impossible position if she wants to both sustain the LLIV program and appease the (valid) class size concerns of the parents of gen-ed students. Just doesn't seem like they have figured out how this is all workable.

Dear God, this makes me sick. "Compromising the integrity of the program" by adding some Gen Ed kids? Yet another example of just how seriously the AAP crowd (administration and parents) takes themselves. Ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you can blame the Center principal here. If the guy needs the numbers to make two classes, he's left with no choice but to make you think the Center is superior so you won't stay at your base school. No brainer.
And if I'm that LLIV parent that gets to choose, what else would make me not go to the Center but a promise of a comparable experience? Otherwise, why would you stay? A class of half AAP kids and half non-AAP kids would not be the same experience that you get in a Center. That is pretty clear. So as soon as that happens, parents will fly out the door so fast that there will be no LLIV program. Not such a bad thing in my mind since I'm a gen ed parent and it sucks that my kid would be in a class of 26 when your super special star students is in a class under 20. But I'm not going to throw these principals under the bus for trying to make their programs work. I agree with that PP who said it is a problem with the system. FCPS needs to get their heads out.

Well I will then! It's not a principal's job to manipulate class size to the detriment of the gen ed students. It's unconscionable. I don't get the point of even having LLIV when there is a center a mile away. Sorry, but let them take their "super special star students" as you called them down the road and then our kids at the base school can have 20 in a classroom instead of 27! And can we talk about how they keep taking the best gen ed teachers and pulling them to teach the AAP classes? Worms. Can. Opened.

PP, I agree with you - the other problem though is when the AAP classes at center schools start outnumbering the Gen Ed classes there. This is our experience as parents of Gen Ed kids who attend a center (base school). IMO, the biggest problem is that there are far too many AAP kids - period. Taking so many at our center (Colvin Run) has made our Gen Ed classes dwindle. Now the Gen Ed kids are the ones left with barely two classes.

[Anonymous]

The thing is the LR principal had to make a combination class of I think 4th and 5th AAP students in order to make the student numbers relatively even between classes. So while he didn't combine general ed and AAP, he did combine grades and tried to be fair with teacher resources. The Shrevewood Principal took a teacher that was probably given to the school to help the kindergarten or 1st grade students coming from those apartments and used the teacher to make 14-18 student AAP classes while leaving the kindergarten classes with 30 students each plus having much larger general ed classes throughout all grade levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The thing is the LR principal had to make a combination class of I think 4th and 5th AAP students in order to make the student numbers relatively even between classes. So while he didn't combine general ed and AAP, he did combine grades and tried to be fair with teacher resources. The Shrevewood Principal took a teacher that was probably given to the school to help the kindergarten or 1st grade students coming from those apartments and used the teacher to make 14-18 student AAP classes while leaving the kindergarten classes with 30 students each plus having much larger general ed classes throughout all grade levels.

Makes a compelling story...but there were no kindergarten classes with 30 students at Shrevewood last year...the largest had 26 and that does not meet the threshold requirement for allocation of an additional teacher, so that would not have been a consideration. (Perhaps this was just a mistaken assumption here, but it just wasn't the case, so I thought I would point that out.)

Also, the PP who said it's messed up that parents get to choose is right. Maybe the principal wants to have even numbers, but not enough parents chose the LLIV option over the center. And then if the ones who opt to stay see that the class is not, in fact, really an AAP class because now you have made it half-AAP and half-not to even out the numbers then is that really putting their kids in an accelerated learning environment that they qualified for? If that isn't what the LLIV delivers, then why would they stay the following year? So then the next year, they know better and send their kids to the Center and your LLIV program is gone.

And then, as the Colvin Run parent/poster pointed out, when this happens, the Centers get overrun with "outsider" AAP kids, and the gen. ed kids are getting the short end of the stick there, too.

FCPS has an issue. They are bi-polar about what they want out of this program.

[Anonymous]

Strange that there was no mention of a combined 4th/5th grade AAP class at Lemon Road. That would be a good solution for Shrevewood, I would think. But the LR principal made it sound like every grade level had 2 AAP classes, so---

[Anonymous]

to 13:05 -there was no combined 4/5 AAP class at Lemon Road. It was Gen Ed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Maybe the principal wants to have even numbers, but not enough parents chose the LLIV option over the center. And then if the ones who opt to stay see that the class is not, in fact, really an AAP class because now you have made it half-AAP and half-not to even out the numbers then is that really putting their kids in an accelerated learning environment that they qualified for? If that isn't what the LLIV delivers, then why would they stay the following year? So then the next year, they know better and send their kids to the Center and your LLIV program is gone.

I think you should stop trying to plead with other parents to think rationally about this. Fact is, the parents who are angry about the AAP program and its inequities are not going to try to see this from the point of view of an AAP parent because they are too busy pointing out what is or isn't fair based on their viewpoint. Let's face it, if your kid isn't in the AAP program, you aren't going to be all that concerned with how to make a LLIV program succeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Maybe the principal wants to have even numbers, but not enough parents chose the LLIV option over the center. And then if the ones who opt to stay see that the class is not, in fact, really an AAP class because now you have made it half-AAP and half-not to even out the numbers then is that really putting their kids in an accelerated learning environment that they qualified for? If that isn't what the LLIV delivers, then why would they stay the following year? So then the next year, they know better and send their kids to the Center and your LLIV program is gone.

I think you should stop trying to plead with other parents to think rationally about this. Fact is, the parents who are angry about the AAP program and its inequities are not going to try to see this from the point of view of an AAP parent because they are too busy pointing out what is or isn't fair based on their viewpoint. Let's face it, if your kid isn't in the AAP program, you aren't going to be all that concerned with how to make a LLIV program succeed.

Absolutely true, and rightfully so.

[Anonymous]

Parents who stay at the base school are crazy. The Center guarantees your DC will be with other children who were actually screened and qualified to be in the program. In a year or two, no school-based program will be able to do that. Pressure is too great to have principals make class sizes even. They will push in more nonAAP students at the local school and the program will suffer. Some of you act like that won't make a difference, but it always does and will slow the class down. Centers are the way to go. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents who stay at the base school are crazy. The Center guarantees your DC will be with other children who were actually screened and qualified to be in the program. In a year or two, no school-based program will be able to do that. Pressure is too great to have principals make class sizes even. They will push in more nonAAP students at the local school and the program will suffer. Some of you act like that won't make a difference, but it always does and will slow the class down. Centers are the way to go. Sorry.

I think you can't say that as a general statement. The center kids are mixed. There are kids who are over prepped and don't actually pick it up quickly. Virtually any kid could ace the NNAT or CogAt with that much practice.

Also, there are kids in Gen Ed that are very bright but for whatever reason don't test well or had a bad day or some teacher doesn't give the a good GBRS score. They might actually do better and learn more quickly than some of the kids in the center. I had a child at a center people here love to rave about and, while it was a good education, it was not a panacea. In fact, people telling my kid how smart he was all day caused some problems I'm trying to fix right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents who stay at the base school are crazy. The Center guarantees your DC will be with other children who were actually screened and qualified to be in the program. In a year or two, no school-based program will be able to do that. Pressure is too great to have principals make class sizes even. They will push in more nonAAP students at the local school and the program will suffer. Some of you act like that won't make a difference, but it always does and will slow the class down. Centers are the way to go. Sorry.

Color me crazy then. How bout I'll do me. You do you. The kids will all be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents who stay at the base school are crazy. The Center guarantees your DC will be with other children who were actually screened and qualified to be in the program. In a year or two, no school-based program will be able to do that. Pressure is too great to have principals make class sizes even. They will push in more nonAAP students at the local school and the program will suffer. Some of you act like that won't make a difference, but it always does and will slow the class down. Centers are the way to go. Sorry.

You are ridiculous. Your precious child won't become catatonic due to exposure to General Ed kids, especially with the dramatically lowered AAP standards of recent years and the huge amount of overlap between AAP and Gen Ed. I imagine there are plenty of Gen Ed students who could perform circles around your child - as you will see once high school rolls around.

[Anonymous]

Our active PTA has urged AAP students to stay in our base school with guarantees from the principle of small AAP only classes 12-15 students. It was a win. It's not shrevewood and it is awesome! I wouldn't trade it for an overcrowded classroom and in the end the teacher is AAP. The key is to have just enough FARMS so that you have plenty of AAP students and get the extra teachers from FARMS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our active PTA has urged AAP students to stay in our base school with guarantees from the principle of small AAP only classes 12-15 students. It was a win. It's not shrevewood and it is awesome! I wouldn't trade it for an overcrowded classroom and in the end the teacher is AAP. The key is to have just enough FARMS so that you have plenty of AAP students and get the extra teachers from FARMS.

Nice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our active PTA has urged AAP students to stay in our base school with guarantees from the principle of small AAP only classes 12-15 students. It was a win. It's not shrevewood and it is awesome! I wouldn't trade it for an overcrowded classroom and in the end the teacher is AAP. The key is to have just enough FARMS so that you have plenty of AAP students and get the extra teachers from FARMS.

Nice.

You know the extra teachers aren't meant for AAP students right?