Is it crazy to choose a non-ivy over an ivy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends what Ivy … personally, there are probably 10-12 schools (and probably more, if I gave more thought to it) that are non-Ivy but that I’d quickly take over Cornell without too much additional thought.

100%. Same with Dartmouth and Brown.

DP: Which 10-12 schools would you and other PP choose over Cornell, Dartmouth and Brown?

HYPSM, Chicago, Duke, Northwestern, Hopkins, Penn, Columbia. That’s 11. I might not pick NU or JHU over Brown depending on my mood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends what Ivy … personally, there are probably 10-12 schools (and probably more, if I gave more thought to it) that are non-Ivy but that I’d quickly take over Cornell without too much additional thought.

100%. Same with Dartmouth and Brown.

DP: Which 10-12 schools would you and other PP choose over Cornell, Dartmouth and Brown?

HYPSM, Chicago, Duke, Northwestern, Hopkins, Penn, Columbia. That’s 11. I might not pick NU or JHU over Brown depending on my mood.

My kid will be choosing Dartmouth over Chicago, Northwestern and Hopkins. Chicago and Hopkins mostly because of the city/surroundings and the reputation of the school culture (especially for premed). Northwestern has always been on our minds as a step down due to the kids who get in from my kids' school (quite a few not super academically inclined kids get in ED because they accept 25% of ED applicants).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends what Ivy … personally, there are probably 10-12 schools (and probably more, if I gave more thought to it) that are non-Ivy but that I’d quickly take over Cornell without too much additional thought.

100%. Same with Dartmouth and Brown.

DP: Which 10-12 schools would you and other PP choose over Cornell, Dartmouth and Brown?

HYPSM, Chicago, Duke, Northwestern, Hopkins, Penn, Columbia. That’s 11. I might not pick NU or JHU over Brown depending on my mood.

One hundred percent agree

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends what Ivy … personally, there are probably 10-12 schools (and probably more, if I gave more thought to it) that are non-Ivy but that I’d quickly take over Cornell without too much additional thought.

100%. Same with Dartmouth and Brown.

DP: Which 10-12 schools would you and other PP choose over Cornell, Dartmouth and Brown?

HYPSM, Chicago, Duke, Northwestern, Hopkins, Penn, Columbia. That’s 11. I might not pick NU or JHU over Brown depending on my mood.

My kid will be choosing Dartmouth over Chicago, Northwestern and Hopkins. Chicago and Hopkins mostly because of the city/surroundings and the reputation of the school culture (especially for premed). Northwestern has always been on our minds as a step down due to the kids who get in from my kids' school (quite a few not super academically inclined kids get in ED because they accept 25% of ED applicants).

For pre-med I can understand. Else, I would be puzzled.

Chicago has declined a bit in academic rigor to match Princeton. It’s still top rigor, but less than our time. Greek life there has been growing, and I know a lot of happy kids there.

I agree with your statement about NU. They drop the bar significantly in ED - both for private school kids and public school kids. People in the bottom 50% of GPAs get in from our private.

JHU is quite intense but most find their way and are happy.

Overall, great options to have!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends what Ivy … personally, there are probably 10-12 schools (and probably more, if I gave more thought to it) that are non-Ivy but that I’d quickly take over Cornell without too much additional thought.

100%. Same with Dartmouth and Brown.

DP: Which 10-12 schools would you and other PP choose over Cornell, Dartmouth and Brown?

HYPSM, Chicago, Duke, Northwestern, Hopkins, Penn, Columbia. That’s 11. I might not pick NU or JHU over Brown depending on my mood.

My kid will be choosing Dartmouth over Chicago, Northwestern and Hopkins. Chicago and Hopkins mostly because of the city/surroundings and the reputation of the school culture (especially for premed). Northwestern has always been on our minds as a step down due to the kids who get in from my kids' school (quite a few not super academically inclined kids get in ED because they accept 25% of ED applicants).

For pre-med I can understand. Else, I would be puzzled.

Chicago has declined a bit in academic rigor to match Princeton. It’s still top rigor, but less than our time. Greek life there has been growing, and I know a lot of happy kids there.

I agree with your statement about NU. They drop the bar significantly in ED - both for private school kids and public school kids. People in the bottom 50% of GPAs get in from our private.

JHU is quite intense but most find their way and are happy.

Overall, great options to have!

PP: Thank you. I personally love city life (particularly walking around Chicago) but it was my kid's choice. Kid was sad after an early SCEA rejection but I'm happy it worked out for them in the end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really depends.

Harvard, Yale, Stanford - would be 100% pick
Princeton - only if they are OK with very intense
Columbia- only if they thrive in urban environments
Dartmouth - just no, would choose anything T50 over this one
Brown- maybe depending on the kid, better for an artsy or humanities type kid
Penn - wouldn’t necessarily choose it over another T20 but nothing objectionable about it
Cornell- only if kid likes intense winters, intense academics

DS got into both Princeton and Yale for Engineering. Is it really a grind at Princeton? I know it's more rigorous but had thought it had calmed from grade deflation days of the past.

It seems the priority here is prestige or culture, not the actual strength of engineering, so just pick whichever one your DS likes more. If he had cared more about engineering academics, he would have applied to at least a dozen other schools better than these two (more than a dozen in the case of Yale). These two top elite Ivies could obviously set him up well for careers in management, consulting, finance, etc., but if he actually wants to become an engineer, he will likely get his first job easily with the P or Y name on his resume, then by his second job, he will need to catch up with guys from the other schools who are better engineers. Esp with AI taking over engineering jobs, ask your DS to think ahead and proactively seek out innovation in latest engineering applications that professors at a place like Princeton or Yale may not be the pioneers in (too theoretical).

You have no idea what you are talking about. The smartest scientist minds go to phD in engineering or applied physics and ivies with established engineering such as Princeton Penn Cornell and yes Harvard and yale send students every year to top phd programs as well as into top tech companies with real engineering jobs. It is the midling entry level engineering jobs that one can get from average flagship that will be taken over by AI. The peers are not smart enough for the coursework in quantum mechanics, thermo, etc to be taught at the higher levels the top companies and phd want.
It becomes obvious once your kid gets a couple of years in and realizes how different the summer options are for students from top schools. There are several highly selective engineering summer internships that have a large over-representation of MIT stanford and the ivies with real engineering(HPPYCC). Of course they have an over-representation of UCB JHu and CMU kids too, add Rice and Duke. It drops rapidly from there. These are highly technical jobs. There are PIs that openly state they select for specific levels schools and look for specific coursework on the transcript.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is facing such a choice. The non-ivy is their first choice and a better fit. But it’s just difficult to ignore the prestige of an ivy.

If the non-ivy is a private in the top 15ish or Williams/Amherst/Swarthmore then go for it. If it is a large public or a private outside of the top 15ish then consider carefully.

What if it's CMU?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is facing such a choice. The non-ivy is their first choice and a better fit. But it’s just difficult to ignore the prestige of an ivy.

If the non-ivy is a private in the top 15ish or Williams/Amherst/Swarthmore then go for it. If it is a large public or a private outside of the top 15ish then consider carefully.

What if it's CMU?

Depends on the major! CS ? Yes with the exception of Stanford.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is facing such a choice. The non-ivy is their first choice and a better fit. But it’s just difficult to ignore the prestige of an ivy.

If the non-ivy is a private in the top 15ish or Williams/Amherst/Swarthmore then go for it. If it is a large public or a private outside of the top 15ish then consider carefully.

What if it's CMU?

It’s fine. I would choose Rice over a few ivies as well. Pomona, Harvey Mudd, Bowdoin, Wellesley all super good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really depends.

Harvard, Yale, Stanford - would be 100% pick
Princeton - only if they are OK with very intense
Columbia- only if they thrive in urban environments
Dartmouth - just no, would choose anything T50 over this one
Brown- maybe depending on the kid, better for an artsy or humanities type kid
Penn - wouldn’t necessarily choose it over another T20 but nothing objectionable about it
Cornell- only if kid likes intense winters, intense academics

DS got into both Princeton and Yale for Engineering. Is it really a grind at Princeton? I know it's more rigorous but had thought it had calmed from grade deflation days of the past.

It seems the priority here is prestige or culture, not the actual strength of engineering, so just pick whichever one your DS likes more. If he had cared more about engineering academics, he would have applied to at least a dozen other schools better than these two (more than a dozen in the case of Yale). These two top elite Ivies could obviously set him up well for careers in management, consulting, finance, etc., but if he actually wants to become an engineer, he will likely get his first job easily with the P or Y name on his resume, then by his second job, he will need to catch up with guys from the other schools who are better engineers. Esp with AI taking over engineering jobs, ask your DS to think ahead and proactively seek out innovation in latest engineering applications that professors at a place like Princeton or Yale may not be the pioneers in (too theoretical).

You have no idea what you are talking about. The smartest scientist minds go to phD in engineering or applied physics and ivies with established engineering such as Princeton Penn Cornell and yes Harvard and yale send students every year to top phd programs as well as into top tech companies with real engineering jobs. It is the midling entry level engineering jobs that one can get from average flagship that will be taken over by AI. The peers are not smart enough for the coursework in quantum mechanics, thermo, etc to be taught at the higher levels the top companies and phd want.
It becomes obvious once your kid gets a couple of years in and realizes how different the summer options are for students from top schools. There are several highly selective engineering summer internships that have a large over-representation of MIT stanford and the ivies with real engineering(HPPYCC). Of course they have an over-representation of UCB JHu and CMU kids too, add Rice and Duke. It drops rapidly from there. These are highly technical jobs. There are PIs that openly state they select for specific levels schools and look for specific coursework on the transcript.

UMD has quantum computing on-site. Hard to ignore the career opportunities there too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really depends.

Harvard, Yale, Stanford - would be 100% pick
Princeton - only if they are OK with very intense
Columbia- only if they thrive in urban environments
Dartmouth - just no, would choose anything T50 over this one
Brown- maybe depending on the kid, better for an artsy or humanities type kid
Penn - wouldn’t necessarily choose it over another T20 but nothing objectionable about it
Cornell- only if kid likes intense winters, intense academics

DS got into both Princeton and Yale for Engineering. Is it really a grind at Princeton? I know it's more rigorous but had thought it had calmed from grade deflation days of the past.

It seems the priority here is prestige or culture, not the actual strength of engineering, so just pick whichever one your DS likes more. If he had cared more about engineering academics, he would have applied to at least a dozen other schools better than these two (more than a dozen in the case of Yale). These two top elite Ivies could obviously set him up well for careers in management, consulting, finance, etc., but if he actually wants to become an engineer, he will likely get his first job easily with the P or Y name on his resume, then by his second job, he will need to catch up with guys from the other schools who are better engineers. Esp with AI taking over engineering jobs, ask your DS to think ahead and proactively seek out innovation in latest engineering applications that professors at a place like Princeton or Yale may not be the pioneers in (too theoretical).

You have no idea what you are talking about. The smartest scientist minds go to phD in engineering or applied physics and ivies with established engineering such as Princeton Penn Cornell and yes Harvard and yale send students every year to top phd programs as well as into top tech companies with real engineering jobs. It is the midling entry level engineering jobs that one can get from average flagship that will be taken over by AI. The peers are not smart enough for the coursework in quantum mechanics, thermo, etc to be taught at the higher levels the top companies and phd want.
It becomes obvious once your kid gets a couple of years in and realizes how different the summer options are for students from top schools. There are several highly selective engineering summer internships that have a large over-representation of MIT stanford and the ivies with real engineering(HPPYCC). Of course they have an over-representation of UCB JHu and CMU kids too, add Rice and Duke. It drops rapidly from there. These are highly technical jobs. There are PIs that openly state they select for specific levels schools and look for specific coursework on the transcript.

UMD has quantum computing on-site. Hard to ignore the career opportunities there too.

What are the top selective engr summer internships? can you share a few?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really depends.

Harvard, Yale, Stanford - would be 100% pick
Princeton - only if they are OK with very intense
Columbia- only if they thrive in urban environments
Dartmouth - just no, would choose anything T50 over this one
Brown- maybe depending on the kid, better for an artsy or humanities type kid
Penn - wouldn’t necessarily choose it over another T20 but nothing objectionable about it
Cornell- only if kid likes intense winters, intense academics

DS got into both Princeton and Yale for Engineering. Is it really a grind at Princeton? I know it's more rigorous but had thought it had calmed from grade deflation days of the past.

It seems the priority here is prestige or culture, not the actual strength of engineering, so just pick whichever one your DS likes more. If he had cared more about engineering academics, he would have applied to at least a dozen other schools better than these two (more than a dozen in the case of Yale). These two top elite Ivies could obviously set him up well for careers in management, consulting, finance, etc., but if he actually wants to become an engineer, he will likely get his first job easily with the P or Y name on his resume, then by his second job, he will need to catch up with guys from the other schools who are better engineers. Esp with AI taking over engineering jobs, ask your DS to think ahead and proactively seek out innovation in latest engineering applications that professors at a place like Princeton or Yale may not be the pioneers in (too theoretical).

You have no idea what you are talking about. The smartest scientist minds go to phD in engineering or applied physics and ivies with established engineering such as Princeton Penn Cornell and yes Harvard and yale send students every year to top phd programs as well as into top tech companies with real engineering jobs. It is the midling entry level engineering jobs that one can get from average flagship that will be taken over by AI. The peers are not smart enough for the coursework in quantum mechanics, thermo, etc to be taught at the higher levels the top companies and phd want.
It becomes obvious once your kid gets a couple of years in and realizes how different the summer options are for students from top schools. There are several highly selective engineering summer internships that have a large over-representation of MIT stanford and the ivies with real engineering(HPPYCC). Of course they have an over-representation of UCB JHu and CMU kids too, add Rice and Duke. It drops rapidly from there. These are highly technical jobs. There are PIs that openly state they select for specific levels schools and look for specific coursework on the transcript.

^^ Sorry, quoting this!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really depends.

Harvard, Yale, Stanford - would be 100% pick
Princeton - only if they are OK with very intense
Columbia- only if they thrive in urban environments
Dartmouth - just no, would choose anything T50 over this one
Brown- maybe depending on the kid, better for an artsy or humanities type kid
Penn - wouldn’t necessarily choose it over another T20 but nothing objectionable about it
Cornell- only if kid likes intense winters, intense academics

DS got into both Princeton and Yale for Engineering. Is it really a grind at Princeton? I know it's more rigorous but had thought it had calmed from grade deflation days of the past.

It seems the priority here is prestige or culture, not the actual strength of engineering, so just pick whichever one your DS likes more. If he had cared more about engineering academics, he would have applied to at least a dozen other schools better than these two (more than a dozen in the case of Yale). These two top elite Ivies could obviously set him up well for careers in management, consulting, finance, etc., but if he actually wants to become an engineer, he will likely get his first job easily with the P or Y name on his resume, then by his second job, he will need to catch up with guys from the other schools who are better engineers. Esp with AI taking over engineering jobs, ask your DS to think ahead and proactively seek out innovation in latest engineering applications that professors at a place like Princeton or Yale may not be the pioneers in (too theoretical).

You have no idea what you are talking about. The smartest scientist minds go to phD in engineering or applied physics and ivies with established engineering such as Princeton Penn Cornell and yes Harvard and yale send students every year to top phd programs as well as into top tech companies with real engineering jobs. It is the midling entry level engineering jobs that one can get from average flagship that will be taken over by AI. The peers are not smart enough for the coursework in quantum mechanics, thermo, etc to be taught at the higher levels the top companies and phd want.
It becomes obvious once your kid gets a couple of years in and realizes how different the summer options are for students from top schools. There are several highly selective engineering summer internships that have a large over-representation of MIT stanford and the ivies with real engineering(HPPYCC). Of course they have an over-representation of UCB JHu and CMU kids too, add Rice and Duke. It drops rapidly from there. These are highly technical jobs. There are PIs that openly state they select for specific levels schools and look for specific coursework on the transcript.

UMD has quantum computing on-site. Hard to ignore the career opportunities there too.

Yes, it looks like Purdue students don't really need to leave campus for interesting quantum study/research experiences: https://quantum.research.purdue.edu

UIUC also has interesting quantum offerings, and I'm sure similar at GT:https://iquist.illinois.edu/education/courses

Yes, Yale has many courses, too:https://quantuminstitute.yale.edu/quantum-certificate

[Anonymous]

UIUC Quantum Information and Sciences Center:
https://iquist.illinois.edu/education/courses

Yale Quantum Science and Engineering Certificate: https://quantuminstitute.yale.edu/quantum-certificate

GT has many opportunities as well: https://gtri.gatech.edu/about/facilities

[Anonymous]

The undergrads at Ivies are a mix of brilliant kids and regular smart sociopaths who want the prestige of attending an Ivy and are willing to check all the boxes required to do it. The latter have had a corrosive effect on academics, and social life in general.