Is it crazy to choose a non-ivy over an ivy

[Anonymous]

My kid just turned down an Ivy and Williams for Chicago. Econ + math major. Smart kid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I faced that choice in 2000. I had a choice between UC Berkeley and Columbia for physics. Both were outstanding and both gave me full ride. I visited both colleges with my parents and we both fell in love with Berkeley. The weather helped too because I was an international student from an extremely hot country and for whatever reason I felt like it was going to be cool living in California

No regrets. If I had gone to school in the US perhaps I would have chosen Columbia because I feel like prestige when it comes to colleges has a much bigger weight than in my country at least.

I doubt 18 years old are as obsessed with Ivys as their parents are especially since people getting into ivys also get into other great on Ivys. But then you have parents so obsessed with prestige and coming up with all.kond of BS reasons to sway their kids into chosing an Ivy. Now if I had gotten into Princeton I would have gone there because its the mecca of Elementary particles.

I was rejected from Princeton and Caltech.

I was accepted by Stony Brook as well and really really really lol loved Stony Brook. I had a classmate who was admitted to Cornell and Stony Brook and told me his order of preference was Berkeley, Stony Brook and Cornell.

Frankly you can't go wrong with any university ranked 1-20 in the US. This is just my opinion, but I am not sure how we can say someone who chose a schooled ranked 20th (never mind those weird rankings) over a school say ranked 3rd in physics for example is making such a bad choice that his head needs to be examined.

Maybe people in the social sciences are more obsessed with prestige? I am just trying to make sense of this thread because for Math, Physics for example the choice ivy vs non ivy isn't even up for debate. You need to look at many criteria and get "Ivy" out your damn head.

Often it’s the parents, not the kids. And especially parents who don’t feel secure about their own accomplishments or position in the pecking order. I see this a lot in 1st-gen immigrants (my own community) and in the work place when middle-management people see HBS/wharton grads come in at age 27 and make more than they do at 47, the latter are the guys who become obsessed with pushing their own kids into Ivies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid just turned down an Ivy and Williams for Chicago. Econ + math major. Smart kid

This makes total sense for at least 4 of the Ivies

[Anonymous]

In 10 years we won't have that debate because the college wage premium will slowly erode

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid picked UVA over an Ivy.

Ivies have weird vibes these days. My older child is at one. They are often an exceedingly random mix of kids---super academic grinders, underprepared FGLI kids from middle America, ultra wealthy who stick to themselves. It's a odd mix.

Smart choice. Fit is important. Prestige is illusion.

Prestige of UVA is definitely an illusion. Strong flagship, but not prestigious.

What exactly do you know about UVA? Nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC is facing such a choice. The non-ivy is their first choice and a better fit. But it’s just difficult to ignore the prestige of an ivy.

Go with your kid's first choice. If they got into an Ivy, the non-Ivy is probably also a very good and prestigious school. I would suggest that you let your kid choose. I know these decisions are difficult and stressful, and there's always the lost opportunity cost of "the path not chosen." I hope your kid flourishes, wherever they end up.

[Anonymous]

Depends what Ivy … personally, there are probably 10-12 schools (and probably more, if I gave more thought to it) that are non-Ivy but that I’d quickly take over Cornell without too much additional thought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Depends what Ivy … personally, there are probably 10-12 schools (and probably more, if I gave more thought to it) that are non-Ivy but that I’d quickly take over Cornell without too much additional thought.

100%. Same with Dartmouth and Brown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really depends.

Harvard, Yale, Stanford - would be 100% pick
Princeton - only if they are OK with very intense
Columbia- only if they thrive in urban environments
Dartmouth - just no, would choose anything T50 over this one
Brown- maybe depending on the kid, better for an artsy or humanities type kid
Penn - wouldn’t necessarily choose it over another T20 but nothing objectionable about it
Cornell- only if kid likes intense winters, intense academics

DS got into both Princeton and Yale for Engineering. Is it really a grind at Princeton? I know it's more rigorous but had thought it had calmed from grade deflation days of the past.

It seems the priority here is prestige or culture, not the actual strength of engineering, so just pick whichever one your DS likes more. If he had cared more about engineering academics, he would have applied to at least a dozen other schools better than these two (more than a dozen in the case of Yale). These two top elite Ivies could obviously set him up well for careers in management, consulting, finance, etc., but if he actually wants to become an engineer, he will likely get his first job easily with the P or Y name on his resume, then by his second job, he will need to catch up with guys from the other schools who are better engineers. Esp with AI taking over engineering jobs, ask your DS to think ahead and proactively seek out innovation in latest engineering applications that professors at a place like Princeton or Yale may not be the pioneers in (too theoretical).

Yale does seem random to me for engineering, but Princeton seems to have a very strong Engineering program that is top 10. Are you saying you would pick GTech or Berkeley over Princeton?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends what Ivy … personally, there are probably 10-12 schools (and probably more, if I gave more thought to it) that are non-Ivy but that I’d quickly take over Cornell without too much additional thought.

100%. Same with Dartmouth and Brown.

DP: Which 10-12 schools would you and other PP choose over Cornell, Dartmouth and Brown?

[Anonymous]

What is so horrible about Cornell, Dartmouth, and Brown? I'm honestly asking!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is so horrible about Cornell, Dartmouth, and Brown? I'm honestly asking!

1. Cornell is too big to be exclusive, and excluding as many people as possible is the whole purpose of Ivies.

2. Dartmouth and Brown have not been as serious as the other Ivies for as long as the other Ivies. Eg, they are the only Ivies that were not founding members of the AAU. I doubt most people who group them as lower Ivies know that, but that’s the kind of thing that gets incorporated into a school’s reputation over time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is so horrible about Cornell, Dartmouth, and Brown? I'm honestly asking!

1. Cornell is too big to be exclusive, and excluding as many people as possible is the whole purpose of Ivies.

2. Dartmouth and Brown have not been as serious as the other Ivies for as long as the other Ivies. Eg, they are the only Ivies that were not founding members of the AAU. I doubt most people who group them as lower Ivies know that, but that’s the kind of thing that gets incorporated into a school’s reputation over time.

This is one of the weirdest things I've read on DCUM and trust me, that's saying a lot as I've been reading here for over a year. I am a Dartmouth alum and my kid will be going to Dartmouth. There are many reasons why people would choose, say Duke, JHU, Stanford, MIT, and even top publics like Cal, UCLA, etc. over Dartmouth, but this is not one of them. I don't even know what AAU was - I thought that was the short hand for youth club basketball leagues?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is facing such a choice. The non-ivy is their first choice and a better fit. But it’s just difficult to ignore the prestige of an ivy.

Seems like a no-brainer. Pick the 1st choice/best fit. (Who cares what sports conference they belong to.) Always pick the best fit. Congrats OP!

New money always choose Ivy names over fit. Old money would choose fit over Ivy. It’s not unlike when you see old rich wear high-quality, non-flashy exquisite clothes while newer rich are more likely to make sure you see the label of how much they spent. Same for who tend to wear Rolex.

Haaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaa!!!!

My god, you can believe how many old $$$, IVs and Vth generation our at my kids’ two Ivies. But, yeah, sure …lmaof.

DP. You’re an ahole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Without any doubt, for engineering, schools like MIT/CMU/Stanford/Berkeley are way, way better than any ivy.

Thanks for the insight.