Is it crazy to choose a non-ivy over an ivy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"His take, while fully supporting our D’s choice, was that the lifetime of doors that spring open once you have that ivy on your resume is a perk that’s well worth a less-than-ideal undergrad experience. He didn’t love his four years of undergrad, but says he would do it again in a heartbeat knowing the advantages his choice has since conferred."
Like what? Not being facetious. Does where you go for undergrad matter when so many kids go to grad school?
And what are these amazing perks? I have a nephew graduating from Brown who is in a pretty similar boat to my William & Mary senior. (Both have jobs. They're in different fields but basically the same salary and both are in a good position to later go on to grad or law school). Maybe there are advantages later, though...?

Brown is a brand name mostly among parents of kids applying to college. In other demographic groups, even among professionals in NYC/LA/Miami/Houston/Chicago, you’re not going to find anyone stopping to take note that a colleague went to Brown. No one assumes you must be a genius if you’re a Brown or Cornell alum. People are more likely to think you must be smart if you went to HYP, Stanford, MIT, Caltech, even Hopkins and Berkeley; and then there are people in the business world who assume (rightly or wrongly) that you must be fun or have great people skills if you went to Duke, UT Austin, UCLA…no one bats an eyelash over Brown.

lol dude you are so funny. Thanks for letting us know what schools to attend to be considered smart. Are you for real?

I literally did not say “attend these schools to be considered smart.” I said “people are more likely to think you must be smart if you went to HYP, stanford, MIT, Caltech…(rightly or wrongly)…” How is that not a common perception? People make assumptions; I didn’t say those alums are in fact smarter. People make assumptions that if you are tall, you’re likely a better basketball player than someone who is short. Are you going to give them an “are you for real?” too?

You literally implied that people wouldn’t assume you were a genius if you went to Brown or Cornell but they would if you went to another set of schools, mostly engineering oriented.

Your thinking and choice of schools are both woefully inadequate. All of the schools that you mentioned are great schools but most don’t about Caltech, nobody from CA is going to think that you are a genius for going to UCB outside of the Asian engineering community and Princeton is less well known across the country that you seem to believe. Stick to your swim lane.

[Anonymous]

No, it is not crazy.

Substance over status. Basing decisions on what you think, not those around you.

These are important life lessons. Sounds like your kid perhaps, has it more together than you? 🤔

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We had a serious talk with our senior.

If he chooses in-State public- he is going to have to hit the ground running and fight for everything. Be self-starter. GO TO ALL classes. Avoid too much partying. Keep grades high. Opportunities are tougher. We will have an agreement about grades.

My oldest is at an Ivy and opportunities are curated and fall in his lap. It’s so personal. He’s killing it. Class sizes (even his freshmen year) were very small so he got to know professors (courses all taught by profs too) very well. The advising team - nothing short of miraculous.

UVA (personal experience) will be very different. It’s a great school but you have to be on it. It can very hard to get courses. You can skate. If you miss class it’s not noticed in bigger courses. For post-opportunities gpa needs to be high.

You need to assess your kid, their personality, learning style, etc. We put our youngest in a private high school because at a big public he was drawn to the wrong crowd and procrastinated and could succeed with little accountability. His peer group and ambition changed when everyone was motivated. I worry my kid will be like a kid in a candy shop at UVA. For the right kid- it is a fantastic place though.

This is wise and good. If you go public - the child has to be a self starter.

[Anonymous]

The two different posters who talked about the weird mix of students at Ivies… I wonder if that’s true at other highly rated/hard to get into schools as well.. like Williams, Haverford, etc. I imagine MIT and CMU and other stem focused schools might be different, but maybe the schools that prestige-chasing students/families attend are all that same weird mix. Is it a uniquely Ivy thing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The two different posters who talked about the weird mix of students at Ivies… I wonder if that’s true at other highly rated/hard to get into schools as well.. like Williams, Haverford, etc. I imagine MIT and CMU and other stem focused schools might be different, but maybe the schools that prestige-chasing students/families attend are all that same weird mix. Is it a uniquely Ivy thing?

Any of these top schools have 25% of the students with test scores lower than 1450. 50% lower than 1520. That's where the "weird mix" comes from. Then there are test optional schools where at least 30% did not submit scores.

Really there is only about one third of the students who are competent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"His take, while fully supporting our D’s choice, was that the lifetime of doors that spring open once you have that ivy on your resume is a perk that’s well worth a less-than-ideal undergrad experience. He didn’t love his four years of undergrad, but says he would do it again in a heartbeat knowing the advantages his choice has since conferred."
Like what? Not being facetious. Does where you go for undergrad matter when so many kids go to grad school?
And what are these amazing perks? I have a nephew graduating from Brown who is in a pretty similar boat to my William & Mary senior. (Both have jobs. They're in different fields but basically the same salary and both are in a good position to later go on to grad or law school). Maybe there are advantages later, though...?

Brown is a brand name mostly among parents of kids applying to college. In other demographic groups, even among professionals in NYC/LA/Miami/Houston/Chicago, you’re not going to find anyone stopping to take note that a colleague went to Brown. No one assumes you must be a genius if you’re a Brown or Cornell alum. People are more likely to think you must be smart if you went to HYP, Stanford, MIT, Caltech, even Hopkins and Berkeley; and then there are people in the business world who assume (rightly or wrongly) that you must be fun or have great people skills if you went to Duke, UT Austin, UCLA…no one bats an eyelash over Brown.

lol dude you are so funny. Thanks for letting us know what schools to attend to be considered smart. Are you for real?

I literally did not say “attend these schools to be considered smart.” I said “people are more likely to think you must be smart if you went to HYP, stanford, MIT, Caltech…(rightly or wrongly)…” How is that not a common perception? People make assumptions; I didn’t say those alums are in fact smarter. People make assumptions that if you are tall, you’re likely a better basketball player than someone who is short. Are you going to give them an “are you for real?” too?

You literally implied that people wouldn’t assume you were a genius if you went to Brown or Cornell but they would if you went to another set of schools, mostly engineering oriented.

Your thinking and choice of schools are both woefully inadequate. All of the schools that you mentioned are great schools but most don’t about Caltech, nobody from CA is going to think that you are a genius for going to UCB outside of the Asian engineering community and Princeton is less well known across the country that you seem to believe. Stick to your swim lane.

Dude, you’re confusing posters. I said nothing about engineering

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"His take, while fully supporting our D’s choice, was that the lifetime of doors that spring open once you have that ivy on your resume is a perk that’s well worth a less-than-ideal undergrad experience. He didn’t love his four years of undergrad, but says he would do it again in a heartbeat knowing the advantages his choice has since conferred."
Like what? Not being facetious. Does where you go for undergrad matter when so many kids go to grad school?
And what are these amazing perks? I have a nephew graduating from Brown who is in a pretty similar boat to my William & Mary senior. (Both have jobs. They're in different fields but basically the same salary and both are in a good position to later go on to grad or law school). Maybe there are advantages later, though...?

Brown is a brand name mostly among parents of kids applying to college. In other demographic groups, even among professionals in NYC/LA/Miami/Houston/Chicago, you’re not going to find anyone stopping to take note that a colleague went to Brown. No one assumes you must be a genius if you’re a Brown or Cornell alum. People are more likely to think you must be smart if you went to HYP, Stanford, MIT, Caltech, even Hopkins and Berkeley; and then there are people in the business world who assume (rightly or wrongly) that you must be fun or have great people skills if you went to Duke, UT Austin, UCLA…no one bats an eyelash over Brown.

lol dude you are so funny. Thanks for letting us know what schools to attend to be considered smart. Are you for real?

I literally did not say “attend these schools to be considered smart.” I said “people are more likely to think you must be smart if you went to HYP, stanford, MIT, Caltech…(rightly or wrongly)…” How is that not a common perception? People make assumptions; I didn’t say those alums are in fact smarter. People make assumptions that if you are tall, you’re likely a better basketball player than someone who is short. Are you going to give them an “are you for real?” too?

You literally implied that people wouldn’t assume you were a genius if you went to Brown or Cornell but they would if you went to another set of schools, mostly engineering oriented.

Your thinking and choice of schools are both woefully inadequate. All of the schools that you mentioned are great schools but most don’t about Caltech, nobody from CA is going to think that you are a genius for going to UCB outside of the Asian engineering community and Princeton is less well known across the country that you seem to believe. Stick to your swim lane.

Dude, you’re confusing posters. I said nothing about engineering

Dude, you gave yourself away with your school choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:it depends?

I would probably think it was crazy to choose SUNY Bing (I'm in NY) over Yale.

A kid can decide "fit" based on what they saw that one girl wearing that one time in that one cafeteria.

But nobody is going to a raise even an eyebrow about choosing Duke over Dartmouth, CalTech over Cornell, or Berkeley over Brown.

Rice, Williams, Vandy, Notre Dame, CMU, Chicago .. all schools kids are picking THIS YEAR from my kid's high school over Ivies. Makes total sense.

lol...berkeley over brown...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it depends?

I would probably think it was crazy to choose SUNY Bing (I'm in NY) over Yale.

A kid can decide "fit" based on what they saw that one girl wearing that one time in that one cafeteria.

But nobody is going to a raise even an eyebrow about choosing Duke over Dartmouth, CalTech over Cornell, or Berkeley over Brown.

Rice, Williams, Vandy, Notre Dame, CMU, Chicago .. all schools kids are picking THIS YEAR from my kid's high school over Ivies. Makes total sense.

lol...berkeley over brown...

Berkeley is VERY prestigious in the East Asian community, more so than Dartmouth, U Chicago, Northwestern, Rice and Brown. Half of them have never heard of schools like Brown, Amherst or Swarthmore. The school brands they all know are HYPMS, Penn, Columbia, Cornell, Caltech, UCB, UCLA, USC, Georgetown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The two different posters who talked about the weird mix of students at Ivies… I wonder if that’s true at other highly rated/hard to get into schools as well.. like Williams, Haverford, etc. I imagine MIT and CMU and other stem focused schools might be different, but maybe the schools that prestige-chasing students/families attend are all that same weird mix. Is it a uniquely Ivy thing?

No, first, it's not a weird mix. It's the way the top colleges have been for the past 35 or so years. It's diversity, and it's a good thing. And yes, schools like Wlliams, MIT and even CMU will have a similar mix of kids.

If your kid has an issue with this kind of mix, then they either need to get out more in the real world or just choose a more homogenous school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The two different posters who talked about the weird mix of students at Ivies… I wonder if that’s true at other highly rated/hard to get into schools as well.. like Williams, Haverford, etc. I imagine MIT and CMU and other stem focused schools might be different, but maybe the schools that prestige-chasing students/families attend are all that same weird mix. Is it a uniquely Ivy thing?

Any of these top schools have 25% of the students with test scores lower than 1450. 50% lower than 1520. That's where the "weird mix" comes from. Then there are test optional schools where at least 30% did not submit scores.

Really there is only about one third of the students who are competent.

Test scores have nothing to do with whether students are competent. Seriously?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The two different posters who talked about the weird mix of students at Ivies… I wonder if that’s true at other highly rated/hard to get into schools as well.. like Williams, Haverford, etc. I imagine MIT and CMU and other stem focused schools might be different, but maybe the schools that prestige-chasing students/families attend are all that same weird mix. Is it a uniquely Ivy thing?

Any of these top schools have 25% of the students with test scores lower than 1450. 50% lower than 1520. That's where the "weird mix" comes from. Then there are test optional schools where at least 30% did not submit scores.

Really there is only about one third of the students who are competent.

Test scores have nothing to do with whether students are competent. Seriously?

NP. Of course test scores do. Assuming even split, a 1400 kid with 700 in math understands most high school math concepts and can solve math problems correctly with reasonably high frequency. But the fact that they managed to only make a 700 after a few sittings means there are three to four "harder" questions they seemingly always missed. That's the mental ability part they don't have. This often translates into them performing slightly below average in challenging STEM subjects at top ranked schools. Kids with near 800 math will continue to outperform these 700 math kids on these subjects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it depends?

I would probably think it was crazy to choose SUNY Bing (I'm in NY) over Yale.

A kid can decide "fit" based on what they saw that one girl wearing that one time in that one cafeteria.

But nobody is going to a raise even an eyebrow about choosing Duke over Dartmouth, CalTech over Cornell, or Berkeley over Brown.

Rice, Williams, Vandy, Notre Dame, CMU, Chicago .. all schools kids are picking THIS YEAR from my kid's high school over Ivies. Makes total sense.

lol...berkeley over brown...

Berkeley is VERY prestigious in the East Asian community, more so than Dartmouth, U Chicago, Northwestern, Rice and Brown. Half of them have never heard of schools like Brown, Amherst or Swarthmore. The school brands they all know are HYPMS, Penn, Columbia, Cornell, Caltech, UCB, UCLA, USC, Georgetown.

Have East Asians taken over DCUM? Who cares if a college is internationally known? What adults judge whether someone is smart based on where they went to college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it depends?

I would probably think it was crazy to choose SUNY Bing (I'm in NY) over Yale.

A kid can decide "fit" based on what they saw that one girl wearing that one time in that one cafeteria.

But nobody is going to a raise even an eyebrow about choosing Duke over Dartmouth, CalTech over Cornell, or Berkeley over Brown.

Rice, Williams, Vandy, Notre Dame, CMU, Chicago .. all schools kids are picking THIS YEAR from my kid's high school over Ivies. Makes total sense.

lol...berkeley over brown...

Berkeley is VERY prestigious in the East Asian community, more so than Dartmouth, U Chicago, Northwestern, Rice and Brown. Half of them have never heard of schools like Brown, Amherst or Swarthmore. The school brands they all know are HYPMS, Penn, Columbia, Cornell, Caltech, UCB, UCLA, USC, Georgetown.

Have East Asians taken over DCUM? Who cares if a college is internationally known? What adults judge whether someone is smart based on where they went to college?

Literally everyone on this board (and in most of America) judges someone based on where they went to college, including you. It’s not all that matters but it is a data point many people value. You know this; don’t pretend to be holier than thou when you’re likely on the DCUM college board. You sound like one of those women who pretends they have ever heard of Botox when everyone can see the can’t move their eyebrows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The two different posters who talked about the weird mix of students at Ivies… I wonder if that’s true at other highly rated/hard to get into schools as well.. like Williams, Haverford, etc. I imagine MIT and CMU and other stem focused schools might be different, but maybe the schools that prestige-chasing students/families attend are all that same weird mix. Is it a uniquely Ivy thing?

Any of these top schools have 25% of the students with test scores lower than 1450. 50% lower than 1520. That's where the "weird mix" comes from. Then there are test optional schools where at least 30% did not submit scores.

Really there is only about one third of the students who are competent.

Test scores have nothing to do with whether students are competent. Seriously?

NP. Of course test scores do. Assuming even split, a 1400 kid with 700 in math understands most high school math concepts and can solve math problems correctly with reasonably high frequency. But the fact that they managed to only make a 700 after a few sittings means there are three to four "harder" questions they seemingly always missed. That's the mental ability part they don't have. This often translates into them performing slightly below average in challenging STEM subjects at top ranked schools. Kids with near 800 math will continue to outperform these 700 math kids on these subjects.

Do you really think like this in every day life? Where is your data that a 700 math kid will perform weaker than an 800 math kid in STEM subjects? A lot of SAT is pure luck based on the questions you get that day. There's also brain development and maturity. Even Harvard says each year kids come into Harvard without Calculus and end up very successful in STEM majors. There is learning that happens in college.