Palisades Fire - Los Angeles

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m concerned that the Altadena fire can approach the Jet Propulsion Laboratory campus. Major national security failure if that happens.

The fire crews are absolutely overwhelmed.

That area is under an evacuation order.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:3rd fire now in Sylmar - 50 acres. Calling for evacuations.

Anyone living near hills in SoCal should absolutely pack tonight and be ready to go. I imagine there will be fires in Orange County too.

DD is in Orange County, and says the sky is clear, and they don't smell any smoke.
Pray the fire does not spread that far!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m concerned that the Altadena fire can approach the Jet Propulsion Laboratory campus. Major national security failure if that happens.

The fire crews are absolutely overwhelmed.

That area is under an evacuation order.

La Canada was evacuated. The fire is very near there.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:These homes start at $2.5M and go up rapidly from there. I bet most of these folks were self-insured.

This represents a huge, extremely wealthy chunk of the Los Angeles county tax base. Lots of families with young kids. It's as if a wild fire completely destroyed CCMD and adjacent neighborhoods in upper NW DC.

This disaster will upend Los Angeles's budget - lots of costs to clean up but also lots of these people will move away. It will only be partially rebuilt, likely with multi-family housing. The entire area will be rebuilt much differently.

Californian here. I think it’s entirely possible that the state turns deep red politically. There is already a lot of anger at the left simmering under the surface.

Indeed, the waste of resources is jaw dropping.

With the budget surplus they could have been burying power lines, but I guess there were more important priorities to squander the money.

What state buries high transmission lines? These fires aren't caused by residential lines, they're cause by long distance lines

Untrimmed trees are a source of fires. It's on the power company to maintain the trees. Trees falling on power lines are a huge problem.

And you think burring the lines is a solution?

No I'm thinking we just throw our hands up and say "welp, nothing we can do!"

The lines are privately owned by a company that litigates every time the state tries to make them do more to prevent fires

What more do you think they can do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why aren’t fire mitigation systems installed as part of the public works systems, developments or private homes? Large water guns to create a barrier or cover a neighborhood?

I don't really understand what you have in mind - like a continuous spray? Water isn't unlimited - hydrants in some of these areas are already running dry as firefighters use them. And any active system would presumably require power and somebody to man it. Plus spraying water in 100 mpg gusts probably not effective.

I know this kind of fire is unfamiliar to east coasters, I'm not mocking. But it's much bigger and faster than you are imagining. You're basically asking why Florida doesn't have some kind of pump to keep hurricanes out.

As with hurricanes, there are new building methods that help. Burying the power lines would be a huge help, but that's expensive and CA allowed it's power utility to be privatized. This is really a story of climate change + bad infrastructure decisions.

Glad you're not mocking, seeing that you're the one posting on a DC-based discussion board 3,000 miles away. You probably don't understand a lot of things about living here, either.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is a fire storm of mass destruction and will only get worse over the night.

Iconic landmarks like the Getty Villa and Palisades HS are on fire. 0% contained.

I grew up in SoCal and this is a disaster. People had to abandon their cars in traffic and run.

30,000 people evacuated but the Getty staff say the museum is very secure. My LA friends left their home before the gridlock. I have been through three fire evacuations in the last few years in the Rocky Mountain West, and several friends lost their homes with minutes to get out. The trauma of losing everything you have is unimaginable, especially for children. I have totally changed how I arrange everything. My heart goes out to anyone who has to evacuate, and wait and wonder what is happening to their home. The wind forecast looks terrible.

If you don't mind sharing, I'd like to hear what changes you made. I live in LA and have several family and friends sheltering in hotels right now.

I am glad your friends made it out, and I hope their homes make it.

We had 15 minutes in our first evacuation, many of our friends had literally two minutes. Here is what I’ve done

-Reorganized “must have” paper and objects so that they exist in one grabbable plastic file box stored in the front closet. This means that the overall organization is disrupted. Obviously it has passports, banking, emergency cash etc., but it also has my favorite drawings from each child, original genealogical documents, love letters. This is the box that is first out. It’s what you need and what you feel like you will die without. I sharpied symbols on the box to remind me to close windows, doors, and shut off power/gas. We don’t have propane but if you do you should try to remove it. This is where you put the things that you take if you have two minutes. I also have a small box of charging equipment. This is totally an emotional crutch for me. I learned the first time that slinging chargers into random places made me feel out of control and panicky, but I really wanted to take them.

-The front closet also has flat boxes, packing tape, bubble wrap, scissors that are not used for anything else. They are there primarily for art and books.

-I have packed a box with one or two pieces of each of the multiple sets of china and crystal that are family things.

-I have a packed box of our most treasured Christmas things.

-Jewelry is stored in a box with trays and I am religious about putting it away

-Books are shelved so that high priority keepers are together. Old photo albums are there (yes they are scanned, but some photos I want if I can have them).

-Every bedroom has a box of big black trash bags. You can stuff a ton of clothing, stuffed animals, special blankets, etc. in really quickly and the bags will squish into vehicles efficiently. Kids can do this while you do something else.i will never forget holding my kid’s quavering friend who barely escaped with her family and did not have a single thing left. Not one stuffed animal, baby toy, pillowcase. Nothing.

-Scanning and photographing. Pretty much everything that can be scanned is scanned, if it can’t be scanned it’s photographed. I have thumb drives here and send copies to my mother and cousin. This serves two purposes. Whatever we can’t take out, we will have a memory of, and we will get the max for our contents insurance (start scanning receipts for things as you buy). Insurance for build cost is usually not enough, and they’re only obligated to pay a % of contents unless you can document it all.

-Priorotized lists. We know approximately what can go out in 2, 5, 10, 15, 30 minutes. We know what fits in our vehicles and what we can add if our friend comes with a trailer. This is all written in order and stored in an envelope taped to the must go box. Be sure to include a device list. No matter how prepared you are, it’s scary. It’s not a time to make decisions. You don’t want to be in the basement staring at your sorority memorabilia and your grandmother’s ice skates and wondering what to take. This also means someone else can pack if you put locations and ideally a photo on the list.

Overall, my house is no longer organized for maximum efficiency, but for maximum evacuation efficiency. It doesn’t change much or look weird. It just means some extra steps and discipline here and there. Everyone will have different priorities and choices. The key is making those decisions before the crisis and organizing so you don’t have to think or search for things when you evacuate.

Wow, PP. Your organization is impressive!! I don't even live in a fire-prone area, and I'm going to use some of your ideas! Good luck to you. I hope you never have to use any of this stuff! (But if you hadn't prepared, you might!)

I’m glad it’s helpful for you, and I hope you never have to go through it. It was totally driven by having to evacuate without a plan the first time, and by the experience of mass destruction in our community, including best and other close friends. We were prepared for a house fire, but really none of us were meaningfully prepared for a wildfire. We are so lucky that our neighborhood hasn’t burned.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:These homes start at $2.5M and go up rapidly from there. I bet most of these folks were self-insured.

This represents a huge, extremely wealthy chunk of the Los Angeles county tax base. Lots of families with young kids. It's as if a wild fire completely destroyed CCMD and adjacent neighborhoods in upper NW DC.

This disaster will upend Los Angeles's budget - lots of costs to clean up but also lots of these people will move away. It will only be partially rebuilt, likely with multi-family housing. The entire area will be rebuilt much differently.

Californian here. I think it’s entirely possible that the state turns deep red politically. There is already a lot of anger at the left simmering under the surface.

Indeed, the waste of resources is jaw dropping.

With the budget surplus they could have been burying power lines, but I guess there were more important priorities to squander the money.

What state buries high transmission lines? These fires aren't caused by residential lines, they're cause by long distance lines

Untrimmed trees are a source of fires. It's on the power company to maintain the trees. Trees falling on power lines are a huge problem.

And you think burring the lines is a solution?

No I'm thinking we just throw our hands up and say "welp, nothing we can do!"

I mean, why is accepting that there's little we can do such a problem for you? Do you really think we can solve all our problems related to nature/weather? We can for sure mitigate, try and help when things happen, but in terms of just stopping shit from happening? No way. People like you like to pretend that they control the sun and the stars.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why aren’t fire mitigation systems installed as part of the public works systems, developments or private homes? Large water guns to create a barrier or cover a neighborhood?

jfc. Can we all agree to ignore these posts? The stupidity is overwhelming.

Yeah it’s so stupid other countries use it.

https://www.wired.com/story/spanish-wildfire-defenses/

Not sure it would be effective in the face of huge winds, and considering how many of these sprinklets LA would need since so much of the residential areas borders nature. You really cannot compare that to a tiny village's set up with 40 towers. LA would need thousands.

Damp surfaces put out the embers carried by wind, it’s not a wall of fire moving through the area. Water on roofs and yards would go a long way.

Not in high winds. There is no damp when you have Santa Ana winds. Water evaporates almost immediately. There isn't enough water for everyone in this huge area. You DO NOT GET IT.

Do I don’t and I don’t think you do either. You seem to have a defeatist position on this topic. I’m not saying it will eliminate all risk but it certainly wouldn’t make it worse. I’m literally watching people on tv using buckets and garden hoses to protect their homes, I’m suggesting it be implemented on wider scale. You still haven’t offered ANY suggestions

DP. It actually can make it worse because it diverts resources and puts people in harms way. The hypothetical miles-long hose to the ocean + pumps and manpower is a distraction and impediment to actual firefighting. Especially if not centrally organized, because you will get a bunch of rich people buying up hose and clogging the roads with private (probably untrained) crews trying to experiment in real time to save their personal house that's a mile inland and uphill.
If you want to organize an experiment like this when disaster is not actively happening, that's great and I wish you luck. Though I'm pretty sure you are not the first person to notice the ocean.

BTW, the people with buckets aren't accomplishing anything in this situation. In smaller fires, perhaps.

If you want solutions, they are mostly in prevention: buried power lines, better road planning (and reduced SFH housing overall), more fire breaks, fire resistant buildings, more controlled burns, and doing what we still can to halt or reverse climate change. Notice these are all "central planning" type actions that both sides of the political aisle oppose.

You're my new favorite, PP.

Former Californian here and it’s only the crazy democrats who oppose controlled burns. The republicans have been pushing for them for years. I have had direct conversations with firefighters about this, and it infuriates them that they’re not allowed.

DP. At the local level, generally speaking, Republicans are better and more sensible. They see what needs to be done and get it done. At the national level, that's a different story.

At a local level the party of the minority tends to be more centrist because that's the only way they can be elected. It's true of democrats in areas that lean red and republicans in areas that lean blue. One of the biggest reasons that California is in this mess is a private company not properly maintaining power lines.

That's not what I said and I do not agree.

Of course it's not, you think republicans are the sensible party, but browsing local news where they hold power should put that belief to rest

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:These homes start at $2.5M and go up rapidly from there. I bet most of these folks were self-insured.

This represents a huge, extremely wealthy chunk of the Los Angeles county tax base. Lots of families with young kids. It's as if a wild fire completely destroyed CCMD and adjacent neighborhoods in upper NW DC.

This disaster will upend Los Angeles's budget - lots of costs to clean up but also lots of these people will move away. It will only be partially rebuilt, likely with multi-family housing. The entire area will be rebuilt much differently.

Californian here. I think it’s entirely possible that the state turns deep red politically. There is already a lot of anger at the left simmering under the surface.

Indeed, the waste of resources is jaw dropping.

With the budget surplus they could have been burying power lines, but I guess there were more important priorities to squander the money.

What state buries high transmission lines? These fires aren't caused by residential lines, they're cause by long distance lines

Untrimmed trees are a source of fires. It's on the power company to maintain the trees. Trees falling on power lines are a huge problem.

This is about the dried out brush on the forest floor that catches fire easily, and needs to be better managed. This is not about the power company, it's about California's failed government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stop buying/rebuilding homes in very disaster prone areas.

Pro Tip - if the home is uninsurable or the rates are unaffordable, don’t buy there. Insurers are telling you something. You just don’t want to hear it.

Yes, AND if it’s a climate issue and the government isn’t doing anything to help the climate issues, why should homeowners suffer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These homes start at $2.5M and go up rapidly from there. I bet most of these folks were self-insured.

This represents a huge, extremely wealthy chunk of the Los Angeles county tax base. Lots of families with young kids. It's as if a wild fire completely destroyed CCMD and adjacent neighborhoods in upper NW DC.

This disaster will upend Los Angeles's budget - lots of costs to clean up but also lots of these people will move away. It will only be partially rebuilt, likely with multi-family housing. The entire area will be rebuilt much differently.

Californian here. I think it’s entirely possible that the state turns deep red politically. There is already a lot of anger at the left simmering under the surface.

Indeed, the waste of resources is jaw dropping.

With the budget surplus they could have been burying power lines, but I guess there were more important priorities to squander the money.

What state buries high transmission lines? These fires aren't caused by residential lines, they're cause by long distance lines

Untrimmed trees are a source of fires. It's on the power company to maintain the trees. Trees falling on power lines are a huge problem.

And you think burring the lines is a solution?

No I'm thinking we just throw our hands up and say "welp, nothing we can do!"

I mean, why is accepting that there's little we can do such a problem for you? Do you really think we can solve all our problems related to nature/weather? We can for sure mitigate, try and help when things happen, but in terms of just stopping shit from happening? No way. People like you like to pretend that they control the sun and the stars.

Because it's not true? People like you are probably a constant victim in life at the mercy of others and the government. You do you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These homes start at $2.5M and go up rapidly from there. I bet most of these folks were self-insured.

This represents a huge, extremely wealthy chunk of the Los Angeles county tax base. Lots of families with young kids. It's as if a wild fire completely destroyed CCMD and adjacent neighborhoods in upper NW DC.

This disaster will upend Los Angeles's budget - lots of costs to clean up but also lots of these people will move away. It will only be partially rebuilt, likely with multi-family housing. The entire area will be rebuilt much differently.

Californian here. I think it’s entirely possible that the state turns deep red politically. There is already a lot of anger at the left simmering under the surface.

Indeed, the waste of resources is jaw dropping.

With the budget surplus they could have been burying power lines, but I guess there were more important priorities to squander the money.

What state buries high transmission lines? These fires aren't caused by residential lines, they're cause by long distance lines

Untrimmed trees are a source of fires. It's on the power company to maintain the trees. Trees falling on power lines are a huge problem.

This is about the dried out brush on the forest floor that catches fire easily, and needs to be better managed. This is not about the power company, it's about California's failed government.

It's probably both. Multiple fires burning, we will have to say if they can pinpoint the cause of each. They usually do, just takes time. 85% of fires are caused by humans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These homes start at $2.5M and go up rapidly from there. I bet most of these folks were self-insured.

This represents a huge, extremely wealthy chunk of the Los Angeles county tax base. Lots of families with young kids. It's as if a wild fire completely destroyed CCMD and adjacent neighborhoods in upper NW DC.

This disaster will upend Los Angeles's budget - lots of costs to clean up but also lots of these people will move away. It will only be partially rebuilt, likely with multi-family housing. The entire area will be rebuilt much differently.

Californian here. I think it’s entirely possible that the state turns deep red politically. There is already a lot of anger at the left simmering under the surface.

Indeed, the waste of resources is jaw dropping.

With the budget surplus they could have been burying power lines, but I guess there were more important priorities to squander the money.

What state buries high transmission lines? These fires aren't caused by residential lines, they're cause by long distance lines

Untrimmed trees are a source of fires. It's on the power company to maintain the trees. Trees falling on power lines are a huge problem.

This is about the dried out brush on the forest floor that catches fire easily, and needs to be better managed. This is not about the power company, it's about California's failed government.

It's probably both. Multiple fires burning, we will have to say if they can pinpoint the cause of each. They usually do, just takes time. 85% of fires are caused by humans.

Fires have been a problem in California for thousands of years. Even the native Americans used to do controlled burns!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why doesn’t the wind in Europe result in massive wild fires?

You’re not so bright are you?

NP

Why do you have to be such an a-hole? Do you think it’s helpful?


Her question is a legitimate one. I’d bet a lot of people wonder the same thing.

Portugal? Spain? Greece?
I think that may be why the PP responded as such.

[Anonymous]

I’m interested in the fires, could politics go to the political forum please.