Palisades Fire - Los Angeles

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These homes start at $2.5M and go up rapidly from there. I bet most of these folks were self-insured.

This represents a huge, extremely wealthy chunk of the Los Angeles county tax base. Lots of families with young kids. It's as if a wild fire completely destroyed CCMD and adjacent neighborhoods in upper NW DC.

This disaster will upend Los Angeles's budget - lots of costs to clean up but also lots of these people will move away. It will only be partially rebuilt, likely with multi-family housing. The entire area will be rebuilt much differently.

Californian here. I think it’s entirely possible that the state turns deep red politically. There is already a lot of anger at the left simmering under the surface.

Indeed, the waste of resources is jaw dropping.

With the budget surplus they could have been burying power lines, but I guess there were more important priorities to squander the money.

The cost and time required to bury overhead lines in settled areas would far exceed any budget surplus, plus it isn’t going to come from state funds.

I live in a different western state where some neighborhoods have buried lines and most do not. Our city utility provider began burying lines in the early 2000s and abandoned the effort in our specific neighborhood after completing just two streets due to the infrastructure challenges they encountered. In other neighborhoods it is moving along but definitely not quickly- it’s literally a decades-long, patchwork effort. It would probably take a century to bury the lines just in Pacific Palisades.

With the sheer devastation in the area, Pacific Palisades will be rebuilt with buried lines. I expect the area to look a lot different after this. The city has the opportunity to remake an entire urban area near the beach. It's not going to be a low-density sprawling bedroom community again.

This is a pipe dream. It's not going to be a high rise condo community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Why are they allowing this to happen?

80-100 mph winds.

What I want to know is how the fire started. Allegedly multiple separate fires were spotted. Feels like arson.

NOLA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These homes start at $2.5M and go up rapidly from there. I bet most of these folks were self-insured.

This represents a huge, extremely wealthy chunk of the Los Angeles county tax base. Lots of families with young kids. It's as if a wild fire completely destroyed CCMD and adjacent neighborhoods in upper NW DC.

This disaster will upend Los Angeles's budget - lots of costs to clean up but also lots of these people will move away. It will only be partially rebuilt, likely with multi-family housing. The entire area will be rebuilt much differently.

Californian here. I think it’s entirely possible that the state turns deep red politically. There is already a lot of anger at the left simmering under the surface.

Indeed, the waste of resources is jaw dropping.

With the budget surplus they could have been burying power lines, but I guess there were more important priorities to squander the money.

The cost and time required to bury overhead lines in settled areas would far exceed any budget surplus, plus it isn’t going to come from state funds.

I live in a different western state where some neighborhoods have buried lines and most do not. Our city utility provider began burying lines in the early 2000s and abandoned the effort in our specific neighborhood after completing just two streets due to the infrastructure challenges they encountered. In other neighborhoods it is moving along but definitely not quickly- it’s literally a decades-long, patchwork effort. It would probably take a century to bury the lines just in Pacific Palisades.

You can bury some lines but to do all of them in all areas prone to fire - it’s just so costly and also inconvenient. It makes repairs when power outages happen take much longer. And wind storms like this, it spreads so quickly it’s hard to predict exactly where you’d need to put the underground areas anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These homes start at $2.5M and go up rapidly from there. I bet most of these folks were self-insured.

This represents a huge, extremely wealthy chunk of the Los Angeles county tax base. Lots of families with young kids. It's as if a wild fire completely destroyed CCMD and adjacent neighborhoods in upper NW DC.

This disaster will upend Los Angeles's budget - lots of costs to clean up but also lots of these people will move away. It will only be partially rebuilt, likely with multi-family housing. The entire area will be rebuilt much differently.

No. They will remain single family homes. People rebuild. There’s no way pacific palisades, Malibu or anywhere near the Ocean front will be anything less than multimillion dollar property. This will not affect anything. These people love their lifestyle and paradise there.

If anything, the mildly rich will be replaced by the very rich.

To them it’s a buying opportunity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These homes start at $2.5M and go up rapidly from there. I bet most of these folks were self-insured.

This represents a huge, extremely wealthy chunk of the Los Angeles county tax base. Lots of families with young kids. It's as if a wild fire completely destroyed CCMD and adjacent neighborhoods in upper NW DC.

This disaster will upend Los Angeles's budget - lots of costs to clean up but also lots of these people will move away. It will only be partially rebuilt, likely with multi-family housing. The entire area will be rebuilt much differently.

Californian here. I think it’s entirely possible that the state turns deep red politically. There is already a lot of anger at the left simmering under the surface.

Indeed, the waste of resources is jaw dropping.

With the budget surplus they could have been burying power lines, but I guess there were more important priorities to squander the money.

What state buries high transmission lines? These fires aren't caused by residential lines, they're cause by long distance lines

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These homes start at $2.5M and go up rapidly from there. I bet most of these folks were self-insured.

This represents a huge, extremely wealthy chunk of the Los Angeles county tax base. Lots of families with young kids. It's as if a wild fire completely destroyed CCMD and adjacent neighborhoods in upper NW DC.

This disaster will upend Los Angeles's budget - lots of costs to clean up but also lots of these people will move away. It will only be partially rebuilt, likely with multi-family housing. The entire area will be rebuilt much differently.

Californian here. I think it’s entirely possible that the state turns deep red politically. There is already a lot of anger at the left simmering under the surface.

Yes, less regulation is certainly the solution

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why aren’t fire mitigation systems installed as part of the public works systems, developments or private homes? Large water guns to create a barrier or cover a neighborhood?

jfc. Can we all agree to ignore these posts? The stupidity is overwhelming.

Yeah it’s so stupid other countries use it.

https://www.wired.com/story/spanish-wildfire-defenses/

Not sure it would be effective in the face of huge winds, and considering how many of these sprinklets LA would need since so much of the residential areas borders nature. You really cannot compare that to a tiny village's set up with 40 towers. LA would need thousands.

Damp surfaces put out the embers carried by wind, it’s not a wall of fire moving through the area. Water on roofs and yards would go a long way.

Not in high winds. There is no damp when you have Santa Ana winds. Water evaporates almost immediately. There isn't enough water for everyone in this huge area. You DO NOT GET IT.

Do I don’t and I don’t think you do either. You seem to have a defeatist position on this topic. I’m not saying it will eliminate all risk but it certainly wouldn’t make it worse. I’m literally watching people on tv using buckets and garden hoses to protect their homes, I’m suggesting it be implemented on wider scale. You still haven’t offered ANY suggestions

DP. It actually can make it worse because it diverts resources and puts people in harms way. The hypothetical miles-long hose to the ocean + pumps and manpower is a distraction and impediment to actual firefighting. Especially if not centrally organized, because you will get a bunch of rich people buying up hose and clogging the roads with private (probably untrained) crews trying to experiment in real time to save their personal house that's a mile inland and uphill.
If you want to organize an experiment like this when disaster is not actively happening, that's great and I wish you luck. Though I'm pretty sure you are not the first person to notice the ocean.

BTW, the people with buckets aren't accomplishing anything in this situation. In smaller fires, perhaps.

If you want solutions, they are mostly in prevention: buried power lines, better road planning (and reduced SFH housing overall), more fire breaks, fire resistant buildings, more controlled burns, and doing what we still can to halt or reverse climate change. Notice these are all "central planning" type actions that both sides of the political aisle oppose.

You're my new favorite, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These homes start at $2.5M and go up rapidly from there. I bet most of these folks were self-insured.

This represents a huge, extremely wealthy chunk of the Los Angeles county tax base. Lots of families with young kids. It's as if a wild fire completely destroyed CCMD and adjacent neighborhoods in upper NW DC.

This disaster will upend Los Angeles's budget - lots of costs to clean up but also lots of these people will move away. It will only be partially rebuilt, likely with multi-family housing. The entire area will be rebuilt much differently.

Californian here. I think it’s entirely possible that the state turns deep red politically. There is already a lot of anger at the left simmering under the surface.

Indeed, the waste of resources is jaw dropping.

With the budget surplus they could have been burying power lines, but I guess there were more important priorities to squander the money.

What state buries high transmission lines? These fires aren't caused by residential lines, they're cause by long distance lines

Untrimmed trees are a source of fires. It's on the power company to maintain the trees. Trees falling on power lines are a huge problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why doesn’t the wind in Europe result in massive wild fires?

You’re not so bright are you?

So it's not the wind, is it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These homes start at $2.5M and go up rapidly from there. I bet most of these folks were self-insured.

This represents a huge, extremely wealthy chunk of the Los Angeles county tax base. Lots of families with young kids. It's as if a wild fire completely destroyed CCMD and adjacent neighborhoods in upper NW DC.

This disaster will upend Los Angeles's budget - lots of costs to clean up but also lots of these people will move away. It will only be partially rebuilt, likely with multi-family housing. The entire area will be rebuilt much differently.

Californian here. I think it’s entirely possible that the state turns deep red politically. There is already a lot of anger at the left simmering under the surface.

Indeed, the waste of resources is jaw dropping.

With the budget surplus they could have been burying power lines, but I guess there were more important priorities to squander the money.

The cost and time required to bury overhead lines in settled areas would far exceed any budget surplus, plus it isn’t going to come from state funds.

I live in a different western state where some neighborhoods have buried lines and most do not. Our city utility provider began burying lines in the early 2000s and abandoned the effort in our specific neighborhood after completing just two streets due to the infrastructure challenges they encountered. In other neighborhoods it is moving along but definitely not quickly- it’s literally a decades-long, patchwork effort. It would probably take a century to bury the lines just in Pacific Palisades.

With the sheer devastation in the area, Pacific Palisades will be rebuilt with buried lines. I expect the area to look a lot different after this. The city has the opportunity to remake an entire urban area near the beach. It's not going to be a low-density sprawling bedroom community again.

I’m the Pp you’re replying to and I agree, lines will be buried where areas have been leveled- that’s the easy part. My point was that the PPs saying that lines should have been buried in existing neighborhoods are naive about how challenging and expensive it is.

How expensive will be rebuilding entire towns and neighborhoods? It should have been a priority and it wasn't. There's no excuse for misplaced priorities anymore and the residents should be fed up. I used to live in LA County and got the hell out because I couldn't take it anymore.

So expensive that it was not done.

Think about it like sewage and water: they are arguable far more necessary than electricity yet municipalities typically only can update them when acute situations in the form of sewage overflow and water main breaks demand it. Even when there are funds to divert, it’s very difficult to convince people they should vote in favor of things like infrastructure. It’s the same reason most people are willing to go buy furniture or remodel a bathroom. when they buy a new house even though they really need a new roof or siding. That’s why federal pandemic spending was so impactful, because it took all of the local bickering off the table and put money into bridges and roads and equally dull but vital things.

And in CA it’s even more complicated because of how property taxes and legislation work. Maybe you can get in a time machine and change all that and fast forward to now, but otherwise the effort to unwind decades of legislation, tax policies, uncoordinated planning and infrastructure decisions is too great to make a significant change in the future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These homes start at $2.5M and go up rapidly from there. I bet most of these folks were self-insured.

This represents a huge, extremely wealthy chunk of the Los Angeles county tax base. Lots of families with young kids. It's as if a wild fire completely destroyed CCMD and adjacent neighborhoods in upper NW DC.

This disaster will upend Los Angeles's budget - lots of costs to clean up but also lots of these people will move away. It will only be partially rebuilt, likely with multi-family housing. The entire area will be rebuilt much differently.

Californian here. I think it’s entirely possible that the state turns deep red politically. There is already a lot of anger at the left simmering under the surface.

Indeed, the waste of resources is jaw dropping.

With the budget surplus they could have been burying power lines, but I guess there were more important priorities to squander the money.

What state buries high transmission lines? These fires aren't caused by residential lines, they're cause by long distance lines

Untrimmed trees are a source of fires. It's on the power company to maintain the trees. Trees falling on power lines are a huge problem.

And you think burring the lines is a solution?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These homes start at $2.5M and go up rapidly from there. I bet most of these folks were self-insured.

This represents a huge, extremely wealthy chunk of the Los Angeles county tax base. Lots of families with young kids. It's as if a wild fire completely destroyed CCMD and adjacent neighborhoods in upper NW DC.

This disaster will upend Los Angeles's budget - lots of costs to clean up but also lots of these people will move away. It will only be partially rebuilt, likely with multi-family housing. The entire area will be rebuilt much differently.

Californian here. I think it’s entirely possible that the state turns deep red politically. There is already a lot of anger at the left simmering under the surface.

Indeed, the waste of resources is jaw dropping.

With the budget surplus they could have been burying power lines, but I guess there were more important priorities to squander the money.

The cost and time required to bury overhead lines in settled areas would far exceed any budget surplus, plus it isn’t going to come from state funds.

I live in a different western state where some neighborhoods have buried lines and most do not. Our city utility provider began burying lines in the early 2000s and abandoned the effort in our specific neighborhood after completing just two streets due to the infrastructure challenges they encountered. In other neighborhoods it is moving along but definitely not quickly- it’s literally a decades-long, patchwork effort. It would probably take a century to bury the lines just in Pacific Palisades.

With the sheer devastation in the area, Pacific Palisades will be rebuilt with buried lines. I expect the area to look a lot different after this. The city has the opportunity to remake an entire urban area near the beach. It's not going to be a low-density sprawling bedroom community again.

I’m the Pp you’re replying to and I agree, lines will be buried where areas have been leveled- that’s the easy part. My point was that the PPs saying that lines should have been buried in existing neighborhoods are naive about how challenging and expensive it is.

How expensive will be rebuilding entire towns and neighborhoods? It should have been a priority and it wasn't. There's no excuse for misplaced priorities anymore and the residents should be fed up. I used to live in LA County and got the hell out because I couldn't take it anymore.

So expensive that it was not done.

Think about it like sewage and water: they are arguable far more necessary than electricity yet municipalities typically only can update them when acute situations in the form of sewage overflow and water main breaks demand it. Even when there are funds to divert, it’s very difficult to convince people they should vote in favor of things like infrastructure. It’s the same reason most people are willing to go buy furniture or remodel a bathroom. when they buy a new house even though they really need a new roof or siding. That’s why federal pandemic spending was so impactful, because it took all of the local bickering off the table and put money into bridges and roads and equally dull but vital things.

And in CA it’s even more complicated because of how property taxes and legislation work. Maybe you can get in a time machine and change all that and fast forward to now, but otherwise the effort to unwind decades of legislation, tax policies, uncoordinated planning and infrastructure decisions is too great to make a significant change in the future.

The writing was on the wall. Plus no inertia to do any of the right things. We pulled the plug and left. I feel bad for all our friends left behind, some who have lost homes, but this was all a disaster waiting to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These homes start at $2.5M and go up rapidly from there. I bet most of these folks were self-insured.

This represents a huge, extremely wealthy chunk of the Los Angeles county tax base. Lots of families with young kids. It's as if a wild fire completely destroyed CCMD and adjacent neighborhoods in upper NW DC.

This disaster will upend Los Angeles's budget - lots of costs to clean up but also lots of these people will move away. It will only be partially rebuilt, likely with multi-family housing. The entire area will be rebuilt much differently.

Californian here. I think it’s entirely possible that the state turns deep red politically. There is already a lot of anger at the left simmering under the surface.

Indeed, the waste of resources is jaw dropping.

With the budget surplus they could have been burying power lines, but I guess there were more important priorities to squander the money.

What state buries high transmission lines? These fires aren't caused by residential lines, they're cause by long distance lines

Untrimmed trees are a source of fires. It's on the power company to maintain the trees. Trees falling on power lines are a huge problem.

And you think burring the lines is a solution?

No I'm thinking we just throw our hands up and say "welp, nothing we can do!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PS - if you know people looking to buy in SoCal, they should sign an offer TODAY. I predict nice beach cities that are not fire prone - Manhattan Beach, Redondo, Long Beach, Seal Beach, etc - are going to SKYROCKET in price as all the Pac-Pali rich folks look to buy another home ASAP.

Please don't relocate to the Midwest

I'm going to guess that someone looking to live in Manhattan Beach isn't thinking about Des Moines as a backup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a fire storm of mass destruction and will only get worse over the night.

Iconic landmarks like the Getty Villa and Palisades HS are on fire. 0% contained.

I grew up in SoCal and this is a disaster. People had to abandon their cars in traffic and run.

30,000 people evacuated but the Getty staff say the museum is very secure. My LA friends left their home before the gridlock. I have been through three fire evacuations in the last few years in the Rocky Mountain West, and several friends lost their homes with minutes to get out. The trauma of losing everything you have is unimaginable, especially for children. I have totally changed how I arrange everything. My heart goes out to anyone who has to evacuate, and wait and wonder what is happening to their home. The wind forecast looks terrible.

If you don't mind sharing, I'd like to hear what changes you made. I live in LA and have several family and friends sheltering in hotels right now.

I am glad your friends made it out, and I hope their homes make it.

We had 15 minutes in our first evacuation, many of our friends had literally two minutes. Here is what I’ve done

-Reorganized “must have” paper and objects so that they exist in one grabbable plastic file box stored in the front closet. This means that the overall organization is disrupted. Obviously it has passports, banking, emergency cash etc., but it also has my favorite drawings from each child, original genealogical documents, love letters. This is the box that is first out. It’s what you need and what you feel like you will die without. I sharpied symbols on the box to remind me to close windows, doors, and shut off power/gas. We don’t have propane but if you do you should try to remove it. This is where you put the things that you take if you have two minutes. I also have a small box of charging equipment. This is totally an emotional crutch for me. I learned the first time that slinging chargers into random places made me feel out of control and panicky, but I really wanted to take them.

-The front closet also has flat boxes, packing tape, bubble wrap, scissors that are not used for anything else. They are there primarily for art and books.

-I have packed a box with one or two pieces of each of the multiple sets of china and crystal that are family things.

-I have a packed box of our most treasured Christmas things.

-Jewelry is stored in a box with trays and I am religious about putting it away

-Books are shelved so that high priority keepers are together. Old photo albums are there (yes they are scanned, but some photos I want if I can have them).

-Every bedroom has a box of big black trash bags. You can stuff a ton of clothing, stuffed animals, special blankets, etc. in really quickly and the bags will squish into vehicles efficiently. Kids can do this while you do something else.i will never forget holding my kid’s quavering friend who barely escaped with her family and did not have a single thing left. Not one stuffed animal, baby toy, pillowcase. Nothing.

-Scanning and photographing. Pretty much everything that can be scanned is scanned, if it can’t be scanned it’s photographed. I have thumb drives here and send copies to my mother and cousin. This serves two purposes. Whatever we can’t take out, we will have a memory of, and we will get the max for our contents insurance (start scanning receipts for things as you buy). Insurance for build cost is usually not enough, and they’re only obligated to pay a % of contents unless you can document it all.

-Priorotized lists. We know approximately what can go out in 2, 5, 10, 15, 30 minutes. We know what fits in our vehicles and what we can add if our friend comes with a trailer. This is all written in order and stored in an envelope taped to the must go box. Be sure to include a device list. No matter how prepared you are, it’s scary. It’s not a time to make decisions. You don’t want to be in the basement staring at your sorority memorabilia and your grandmother’s ice skates and wondering what to take. This also means someone else can pack if you put locations and ideally a photo on the list.

Overall, my house is no longer organized for maximum efficiency, but for maximum evacuation efficiency. It doesn’t change much or look weird. It just means some extra steps and discipline here and there. Everyone will have different priorities and choices. The key is making those decisions before the crisis and organizing so you don’t have to think or search for things when you evacuate.

Wow, PP. Your organization is impressive!! I don't even live in a fire-prone area, and I'm going to use some of your ideas! Good luck to you. I hope you never have to use any of this stuff! (But if you hadn't prepared, you might!)