RTO and No Childcare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a lack of childcare that’s the problem; it’s that these women want to have it both ways. They don’t want to pay anyone else to watch their children, they prefer to fleece their employers.

I agree- I was a working mom, I worked part time (30 hour weeks) and paid for before and after care. I lost thousands of dollars in income but I never lied about the hours I worked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent whose kid spent all of kindergarten on the aftercare waiting list at our DCPS, many years before COVID, I always wonder where those people who say that everything changed after Covid get their information?

That same childcare now has a waitlist, costs double, and ends an hour earlier. Things haven't returned to "normal."

[Anonymous]

My children are now 12 and 8. When the 12 year old was an infant, she went to daycare in my (DC) office. Then we moved to CA, the second child was born, and they both went to daycare near my DH’s office. Then the older one was in elementary school and the younger one was home because her daycare closed and then when daycares eventually opened we couldn’t get a spot for awhile and because she was slow to potty train. Eventually we found child care in our neighborhood but - post pandemic - it closed opened at 8 and closed at 5. That wouldn’t have worked if we’d both commuted.

Now she’s in aftercare at school that closes at 6 (the older one takes a city bus home from school). My commute would be 90 mins each way and our town doesn’t have any school buses so yes, if we both commuted daily we’d have to find different child care.

[Anonymous]

Pp here. Our pre-pandemic childcare and our post-pandemic care both reduced hours after the pandemic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid has been working from home since well before Covid. When she and her husband decided to have kids they lined up child care first - the grandparents when the kids were babies and a preschool/daycare once they were toddlers. It never occurred to her for a second that she could watch her kids at home herself and work at the same time. It’s not fair to anyone involved.

Time to return to reality, ladies.

Ugh this is such sexist garbage. As PPs have explained the issue isn’t people trying to WAH with a toddler. It’s tacking on the commuting hours to the workday which = needing even more childcare (this is essentially a sudden pay cut — after care for 2 kids can be $700+ per month).

Also my DH works in private sector IT. He and many other *men* (and women) in his field are fully remote. My DH has enjoyed the work/life balance and being home to coach the kids sports after school, he helps cook dinner, etc.

So it’s not just “ladies” who care about being around for their kids. Sorry your daughter couldn’t find a better father for her kids if you think this way.

You all are just missing the point completely. You have been spoiled and frankly got a little lazy. Here's an idea: stop prioritizing giant houses and big yards. If lessening your commute time is so important, move close to your jobs. Bonus: it's better for the environment. These are ideas that those of us who raised children while working FT before the pandemic did. If we got through it, so can you. Just make better decisions.

This works. But what about when you have kids to educate, or you want to change jobs or you have a 2.75% mortgage rate?

Doesn’t it seem a better option for me to not have to move my laptop from office A to office B to use Microsoft Teams?

Yeah, sometimes the companies we work for go under or we get laid off, none is within our control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a lack of childcare that’s the problem; it’s that these women want to have it both ways. They don’t want to pay anyone else to watch their children, they prefer to fleece their employers.

I agree- I was a working mom, I worked part time (30 hour weeks) and paid for before and after care. I lost thousands of dollars in income but I never lied about the hours I worked.

You do realize it’s possible to work 40 hours without before/after care and not lie?

Spouse A works 7-3:30
Spouse B works 9-5:30

Without commutes you have a parent to manage mornings and a parent to manage afternoons. And both parents home by dinner time. Just because you couldn’t personally manage 30 hours without extra childcare doesn’t mean other families cannot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid has been working from home since well before Covid. When she and her husband decided to have kids they lined up child care first - the grandparents when the kids were babies and a preschool/daycare once they were toddlers. It never occurred to her for a second that she could watch her kids at home herself and work at the same time. It’s not fair to anyone involved.

Time to return to reality, ladies.

Ugh this is such sexist garbage. As PPs have explained the issue isn’t people trying to WAH with a toddler. It’s tacking on the commuting hours to the workday which = needing even more childcare (this is essentially a sudden pay cut — after care for 2 kids can be $700+ per month).

Also my DH works in private sector IT. He and many other *men* (and women) in his field are fully remote. My DH has enjoyed the work/life balance and being home to coach the kids sports after school, he helps cook dinner, etc.

So it’s not just “ladies” who care about being around for their kids. Sorry your daughter couldn’t find a better father for her kids if you think this way.

You all are just missing the point completely. You have been spoiled and frankly got a little lazy. Here's an idea: stop prioritizing giant houses and big yards. If lessening your commute time is so important, move close to your jobs. Bonus: it's better for the environment. These are ideas that those of us who raised children while working FT before the pandemic did. If we got through it, so can you. Just make better decisions.

This works. But what about when you have kids to educate, or you want to change jobs or you have a 2.75% mortgage rate?

Doesn’t it seem a better option for me to not have to move my laptop from office A to office B to use Microsoft Teams?

Yeah, sometimes the companies we work for go under or we get laid off, none is within our control.

But you knew that going into the private sector. You chose the trade offs and risks.

As a fed employee I did the same thing. I’m an attorney and decided on public sector hours for job stability, flexibility, and benefits despite lower pay.

Now it’s lower pay and strict in off of hours (if DOGE gets its way) and political turmoil for a job that is supposed to be protected for partisan politics with protections. If these changes really go through who the hell is going to want these jobs? I’m not interested in working for peanuts (comparable to my law firm peers) under crummy work conditions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are a lot of women employed FT in professional careers really saying they have no childcare? That's not what I've seen on DCUM. People are often talking about the extra time for commuting and difference of being out of the house. So like a 10yp may come home from school and not have childcare from 4-5pm because they can entertain themselves while parent works. But the parent may not want them actually alone in the house. It's a childcare gap. Same with the mornings before school opens - I would need beforecare to RTO and it might not be available this school year (already full). Or preschool may close at 5pm but with commute I'd get home later than that, etc.

WFH necessitates childcare if you have a real job but can be for fewer hours, or you cover the occasional days off and breaks without always taking PTO etc

OP here - I consider a childcare gap a lack of childcare. Before or after school care programs are not going to quickly sprout up.

My school has a private after care company come in for on site care until 6pm but I get home around 7pm, this gap is harder to address because you can’t find a sitter for
6-7. 3pm - 7pm is a do-able schedule for sitters then you are looking to pay 3000/month.

Again this was totally normal pre-covid. you and your DH flex or alternate flexing. one gets to work early and leaves on time to pick kids up; other does the opposite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:For those of you bragging about how you don’t do stuff with your kids after school and how you spent plenty of childcare money/hours in traffic and bent over backwards to be in an office because your boss said so with one parent getting home late … this isn’t the flex you think it is.

To quote Varsity Blues: “I don’t want your life.”

Look, I don’t want FT RTO either. But the fact is you do need to plan your life, and it’s not a foregone conclusion that all parents need to dedicate all this time to after school activities. It’s not even clearly good for kids. Women placing these expectations on themselves (and it’s generally women) are going to drive themselves crazy. Your kid does not need to do travel soccer. They can do the school sports team and get themselves to and from there.

But if your vision IS that you spend from 4-7 shuttling your kid around, then yes, you need a better plan than perpetual FT WFH especially if you are a fed. Set your life up so you can prioritize what’s important to you. That may mean you and your DH flex in opposite directions, choosing a more modest home with a shorter commute, one parent going PT, or investing in childcare.

So prioritize what's important to you ... but not a job with WFH that makes the rest of your schedule possible and more pleasant. Choose jobs with flexible schedules or go part time ... but don't be full time 9-5 with WFH, that's entitled.

Do you hear yourselves?

I think what peeves me the most about the holier-than-thou lecturing is the assumption you thought of something I didn't. My middle schooler is in an alternative school without a bus or aftercare or these mythical school sports you speak of. We have two more years till she can walk to HS, something we planned for when we chose our house. Both DH and I worked from home before covid, something we negotiated - with accompanying pay cuts and limited promotion opportunities - to make this school work. Nobody in my house does travel sports, we just want to be able to get our kid to school in the morning, pick her up after, help with homework, and have dinner together at 6:00. But sure, tell me more about how I'm unreasonable and spoiled for not "prioritizing what's important to me" when I make career and childcare decisions.

I mean yes - planning to have to FT working parents but never have after school child care is entitled. Sorry!

DP but why? Why is wanting to spend afternoon with your kids and being home in time to cook dinner for your family more “entitled” than things like expecting to have good health insurance options, deciding you need a certain level of pay for the job to be worth your time, negotiating for things like transit benefits, expecting paid PTO, etc.?

The only difference is that telework has allowed many women (who were historically home with kids) to join the full time workforce. It’s internalized misogyny telling you that *this* is the thing that employees are entitled for wanting.

I don’t know what to tell you. 40 hrs/week is a standard schedule. there are a variety of ways to make it work and generally they involve paying for childcare.

I *do* work 40 hrs/week. That is the point. I used to do it 6:30 - 3:00 in office with kid in on-site daycare, and now I do it 8:00 - 5:00 (or later) with a 20 minute break to drive my ES kid somewhere in the afternoon. This is one of the variety if ways to make it work, but you don't like this specific thing because...?

FWIW my availability is better now than when I was in office.

Being unavailable from 3-4 is not better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are a lot of women employed FT in professional careers really saying they have no childcare? That's not what I've seen on DCUM. People are often talking about the extra time for commuting and difference of being out of the house. So like a 10yp may come home from school and not have childcare from 4-5pm because they can entertain themselves while parent works. But the parent may not want them actually alone in the house. It's a childcare gap. Same with the mornings before school opens - I would need beforecare to RTO and it might not be available this school year (already full). Or preschool may close at 5pm but with commute I'd get home later than that, etc.

WFH necessitates childcare if you have a real job but can be for fewer hours, or you cover the occasional days off and breaks without always taking PTO etc

OP here - I consider a childcare gap a lack of childcare. Before or after school care programs are not going to quickly sprout up.

+1
And even if kids can entertain themselves a bit or parents find programs, the kids can't magically transport themselves and they can't drive yet. So parents (all parents, dads too) need that flexibility after school. Strict RTO mean that these good employees will no longer be bending backwards to check mails and handle things after business hours.

I think you’re ranting about things you have no idea about. Kids can’t transport themselves? The aftercare programs all have buses and vans that pick up at our school. Parents don’t need to drive their kids to ballet or karate or gymnastics.

I'm so glad your data point of one is universal.

What school doesn't have that? Give us an example.

Our public elementary in DCPS definitely does want have transportation to activities.

Elementary school kids don’t need to be bused to activities. aftercare is fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid has been working from home since well before Covid. When she and her husband decided to have kids they lined up child care first - the grandparents when the kids were babies and a preschool/daycare once they were toddlers. It never occurred to her for a second that she could watch her kids at home herself and work at the same time. It’s not fair to anyone involved.

Time to return to reality, ladies.

Ugh this is such sexist garbage. As PPs have explained the issue isn’t people trying to WAH with a toddler. It’s tacking on the commuting hours to the workday which = needing even more childcare (this is essentially a sudden pay cut — after care for 2 kids can be $700+ per month).

Also my DH works in private sector IT. He and many other *men* (and women) in his field are fully remote. My DH has enjoyed the work/life balance and being home to coach the kids sports after school, he helps cook dinner, etc.

So it’s not just “ladies” who care about being around for their kids. Sorry your daughter couldn’t find a better father for her kids if you think this way.

You all are just missing the point completely. You have been spoiled and frankly got a little lazy. Here's an idea: stop prioritizing giant houses and big yards. If lessening your commute time is so important, move close to your jobs. Bonus: it's better for the environment. These are ideas that those of us who raised children while working FT before the pandemic did. If we got through it, so can you. Just make better decisions.

Everyone, this woman is just angry because her adult kids finally told her they’re going no contact with her due to her general toxicity and hatefulness.

Give her space here to shout at clouds - she’s had a rough Thanksgiving.

😂 I think it is a fundamental misunderstanding that COVID altered the childcare landscape especially for school-aged care.

This -- if you raised kids or even before Covid you don't understand that parents with kids under age 10 don't have the same options anymore and have to deal with more instability in school schedules. Our school assumes weekday flexibility and availability in a way it never used to while also offering fewer after school programs. I'm on the PTA and we had to fight last year to get guaranteed childcare on Wednesday afternoons when our school does half days for PD -- this school year is the first year that the school can guarantee childcare for anyone who wants it (and will pay for it) so that they can just pick their kids up at the normal time as opposed to 12:30pm. And even the limited number of spots available in previous years only started in 2022 -- there was nothing for parents in 2021. So if, like me, you have a 5th grader this year, you've spent the last four years with either no school at all (Covid Closure 2020-2021), school but no aftercare including on short school days (2021-2022), school and aftercare but limited by lottery with no guarantee you'll get a spot (2022-2024), or school an guaranteed childcare until 3:30 but still limited aftercare spots (2024).

And now my kid is finally old enough that I could just have her home while I WFH without needing childcare and there's renewed demand for RTO. We will make it work with after school activities she can walk to and coordinating with other parents but if she were 7 or 8 that wouldn't be an option -- I couldn't just have her walk the 3/4 of a mile to ballet and then walk to her friend's house from ballet until my DH or I can pick her up at 5:30 like I can now.

And whose fault were the Covid school closures? Hmmm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent whose kid spent all of kindergarten on the aftercare waiting list at our DCPS, many years before COVID, I always wonder where those people who say that everything changed after Covid get their information?

That same childcare now has a waitlist, costs double, and ends an hour earlier. Things haven't returned to "normal."

Well obviously it had a wait list then too if my kid never got off the the wait list. I just looked it up. The school now has two aftercare programs. Both end at the same time. Of course it costs more. Given that minimum wage has doubled since then, the cost has gone up. I am guessing you also make more than someone in your job did then. I can't tell you exactly how much more since I can't remember the price of a program my kid never got in to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent whose kid spent all of kindergarten on the aftercare waiting list at our DCPS, many years before COVID, I always wonder where those people who say that everything changed after Covid get their information?

That same childcare now has a waitlist, costs double, and ends an hour earlier. Things haven't returned to "normal."

Well obviously it had a wait list then too if my kid never got off the the wait list. I just looked it up. The school now has two aftercare programs. Both end at the same time. Of course it costs more. Given that minimum wage has doubled since then, the cost has gone up. I am guessing you also make more than someone in your job did then. I can't tell you exactly how much more since I can't remember the price of a program my kid never got in to.

Well, we know that the average preschool cost in the county has nominally doubled over the last twenty years, while the median income has gone up 50% over that same period. That's not sustainable, obviously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid has been working from home since well before Covid. When she and her husband decided to have kids they lined up child care first - the grandparents when the kids were babies and a preschool/daycare once they were toddlers. It never occurred to her for a second that she could watch her kids at home herself and work at the same time. It’s not fair to anyone involved.

Time to return to reality, ladies.

Ugh this is such sexist garbage. As PPs have explained the issue isn’t people trying to WAH with a toddler. It’s tacking on the commuting hours to the workday which = needing even more childcare (this is essentially a sudden pay cut — after care for 2 kids can be $700+ per month).

Also my DH works in private sector IT. He and many other *men* (and women) in his field are fully remote. My DH has enjoyed the work/life balance and being home to coach the kids sports after school, he helps cook dinner, etc.

So it’s not just “ladies” who care about being around for their kids. Sorry your daughter couldn’t find a better father for her kids if you think this way.

You all are just missing the point completely. You have been spoiled and frankly got a little lazy. Here's an idea: stop prioritizing giant houses and big yards. If lessening your commute time is so important, move close to your jobs. Bonus: it's better for the environment. These are ideas that those of us who raised children while working FT before the pandemic did. If we got through it, so can you. Just make better decisions.

Everyone, this woman is just angry because her adult kids finally told her they’re going no contact with her due to her general toxicity and hatefulness.

Give her space here to shout at clouds - she’s had a rough Thanksgiving.

😂 I think it is a fundamental misunderstanding that COVID altered the childcare landscape especially for school-aged care.

This -- if you raised kids or even before Covid you don't understand that parents with kids under age 10 don't have the same options anymore and have to deal with more instability in school schedules. Our school assumes weekday flexibility and availability in a way it never used to while also offering fewer after school programs. I'm on the PTA and we had to fight last year to get guaranteed childcare on Wednesday afternoons when our school does half days for PD -- this school year is the first year that the school can guarantee childcare for anyone who wants it (and will pay for it) so that they can just pick their kids up at the normal time as opposed to 12:30pm. And even the limited number of spots available in previous years only started in 2022 -- there was nothing for parents in 2021. So if, like me, you have a 5th grader this year, you've spent the last four years with either no school at all (Covid Closure 2020-2021), school but no aftercare including on short school days (2021-2022), school and aftercare but limited by lottery with no guarantee you'll get a spot (2022-2024), or school an guaranteed childcare until 3:30 but still limited aftercare spots (2024).

And now my kid is finally old enough that I could just have her home while I WFH without needing childcare and there's renewed demand for RTO. We will make it work with after school activities she can walk to and coordinating with other parents but if she were 7 or 8 that wouldn't be an option -- I couldn't just have her walk the 3/4 of a mile to ballet and then walk to her friend's house from ballet until my DH or I can pick her up at 5:30 like I can now.

And whose fault were the Covid school closures? Hmmm.

Teachers unions. What's your point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue for me is the 8-6 in office requirement. Right now, I work 8-5, pick up my kids, and then work a few more hours at home in the evening. Daycare closes at 6 and I have a 45 minute commute, so I'm not sure what I will go if the 8-6 requirement goes into effect.

For who? Stop that. They pay for 8 hours give them 8 and manage expectations after that.

Does this apply to teachers, too? I’m all for giving my school just the hours they pay for.