RTO and No Childcare.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For those of you bragging about how you don’t do stuff with your kids after school and how you spent plenty of childcare money/hours in traffic and bent over backwards to be in an office because your boss said so with one parent getting home late … this isn’t the flex you think it is.

To quote Varsity Blues: “I don’t want your life.”

Look, I don’t want FT RTO either. But the fact is you do need to plan your life, and it’s not a foregone conclusion that all parents need to dedicate all this time to after school activities. It’s not even clearly good for kids. Women placing these expectations on themselves (and it’s generally women) are going to drive themselves crazy. Your kid does not need to do travel soccer. They can do the school sports team and get themselves to and from there.

But if your vision IS that you spend from 4-7 shuttling your kid around, then yes, you need a better plan than perpetual FT WFH especially if you are a fed. Set your life up so you can prioritize what’s important to you. That may mean you and your DH flex in opposite directions, choosing a more modest home with a shorter commute, one parent going PT, or investing in childcare.

So prioritize what's important to you ... but not a job with WFH that makes the rest of your schedule possible and more pleasant. Choose jobs with flexible schedules or go part time ... but don't be full time 9-5 with WFH, that's entitled.

Do you hear yourselves?

I think what peeves me the most about the holier-than-thou lecturing is the assumption you thought of something I didn't. My middle schooler is in an alternative school without a bus or aftercare or these mythical school sports you speak of. We have two more years till she can walk to HS, something we planned for when we chose our house. Both DH and I worked from home before covid, something we negotiated - with accompanying pay cuts and limited promotion opportunities - to make this school work. Nobody in my house does travel sports, we just want to be able to get our kid to school in the morning, pick her up after, help with homework, and have dinner together at 6:00. But sure, tell me more about how I'm unreasonable and spoiled for not "prioritizing what's important to me" when I make career and childcare decisions.

I mean yes - planning to have to FT working parents but never have after school child care is entitled. Sorry!

DP but why? Why is wanting to spend afternoon with your kids and being home in time to cook dinner for your family more “entitled” than things like expecting to have good health insurance options, deciding you need a certain level of pay for the job to be worth your time, negotiating for things like transit benefits, expecting paid PTO, etc.?

The only difference is that telework has allowed many women (who were historically home with kids) to join the full time workforce. It’s internalized misogyny telling you that *this* is the thing that employees are entitled for wanting.

I don’t know what to tell you. 40 hrs/week is a standard schedule. there are a variety of ways to make it work and generally they involve paying for childcare.

Yes and for many many years, well before 2020, I made it work with telework. (And did pay for childcare when prior to them being school aged and I do still pay for summer camps, so I do pay for childcare during the hours I work).

There is no business reason for my working hours or location to change except for some billionaires who a) have personal financial interest in boosting the commercial real estate market and b) want to cause chaos to weaken government to their personal benefit.

I think it’s really weird actually that you are cheerleading these billionaire interests over wanting a better quality of life for working parents. But you’re entitled to your priorities …

Thank you for stating this so well. I'm also confused where people are coming from and I think the aggressive ones are really just trolling.

The icing on the cake is that given the opportunity, these billionaires would absolutely make decisions that would totally upend the lives of these PPs if it meant raising their net worths by a fraction of a percent.

It’s easy to not care about other people having to go back to an office, especially when you have schadenfreude because you have had to go into an office.

But the reality is that RTO for Feds is just one tiny part of DOGE. I somehow think people are not going to be happy when programs they rely on (even if unknowingly) get gutted or if mass layoffs and benefit cuts lead to a recession, or if public sector cuts lead to layoffs in tangentially related private sector jobs that affect their family, or if the relaxing of safety regulations leads to someone they love being harmed, or if their kid’s IEP gets repealed, or when their overtime gets cut, etc.

It’s naive to think DOGE is going to only affect the federal workforce (which doesn’t exist in a vacuum).

A+

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And you should be making more money now. That plus all of the money you saved over the last few years will be enough.

1) federal salaries are capped so no, we are not all making more money now.

2) "will be enough" for what, and based on what? I have a budget: you have wishful thinking (based on $2 milk, to go by PPs). This kind of envelope math is the same as people saying "x% of govt could be cut without impact" or "x% of Feds do nothing." It's all feelings and no facts or knowledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Are a lot of women employed FT in professional careers really saying they have no childcare? That's not what I've seen on DCUM. People are often talking about the extra time for commuting and difference of being out of the house. So like a 10yp may come home from school and not have childcare from 4-5pm because they can entertain themselves while parent works. But the parent may not want them actually alone in the house. It's a childcare gap. Same with the mornings before school opens - I would need beforecare to RTO and it might not be available this school year (already full). Or preschool may close at 5pm but with commute I'd get home later than that, etc.

WFH necessitates childcare if you have a real job but can be for fewer hours, or you cover the occasional days off and breaks without always taking PTO etc

OP here - I consider a childcare gap a lack of childcare. Before or after school care programs are not going to quickly sprout up.

+1
And even if kids can entertain themselves a bit or parents find programs, the kids can't magically transport themselves and they can't drive yet. So parents (all parents, dads too) need that flexibility after school. Strict RTO mean that these good employees will no longer be bending backwards to check mails and handle things after business hours.

I think you’re ranting about things you have no idea about. Kids can’t transport themselves? The aftercare programs all have buses and vans that pick up at our school. Parents don’t need to drive their kids to ballet or karate or gymnastics.

I'm so glad your data point of one is universal.

What school doesn't have that? Give us an example.

Our public elementary in DCPS definitely does want have transportation to activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another reason why 1950s America was better.

For white mothers.
Black mothers didn’t have that privilege

Um, pre-LBJ, Black nuclear families and extended families were very strong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another reason why 1950s America was better.

I’m hoping this is sarcasm because women in the 50s had no choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you bragging about how you don’t do stuff with your kids after school and how you spent plenty of childcare money/hours in traffic and bent over backwards to be in an office because your boss said so with one parent getting home late … this isn’t the flex you think it is.

To quote Varsity Blues: “I don’t want your life.”

Look, I don’t want FT RTO either. But the fact is you do need to plan your life, and it’s not a foregone conclusion that all parents need to dedicate all this time to after school activities. It’s not even clearly good for kids. Women placing these expectations on themselves (and it’s generally women) are going to drive themselves crazy. Your kid does not need to do travel soccer. They can do the school sports team and get themselves to and from there.

But if your vision IS that you spend from 4-7 shuttling your kid around, then yes, you need a better plan than perpetual FT WFH especially if you are a fed. Set your life up so you can prioritize what’s important to you. That may mean you and your DH flex in opposite directions, choosing a more modest home with a shorter commute, one parent going PT, or investing in childcare.

Well my kids’ elementary school doesn’t have sports teams. Rec level practices tend to be … after school with 1-2 practices/week. Times 2 kids that can be several days per week you need a parent around. And we let ours take at home music lessons 2x/month. I hardly consider a sport and an instrument overscheduled.

And I did build my life around this by taking a fed job that has allowed telework since before Obama. I guess before having kids I should have foreseen a reality show entertainer would take over our country and pimp it out to a couple deranged billionaires who want to destroy and de-regulate our government to pad their own investment accounts. But since I didn’t I guess I’ll have to look for more flexible/higher paying work in the private sector.

I don’t know why so many people are acting like WAH has been some recent COVID perk when it’s been around for a very long time. Getting “back to reality” by RTO 5 days per week is more draconian than many jobs were (including mine) 15 years ago.

Elementary school kids don’t need after school sports … they can do it on the weekend (just like when we were kids).

I think telework should be preserved but not on the grounds that kids have to be shuttled intensively to activities from the age of 5.

Well my DH and I were athletes growing up. Sports are important to us as our family prioritizes physical fitness. I don’t think playing a sport on the weekend is enough movement for kids.

Sure they can get that from running around with friends after school, which also … requires a parent nearby until they are older. There are also school projects to work on. And family dinner to prep. Or are these not important either?

I get some disgruntled people on this site love to hate on sports, but the reality is kids have to do *something* from school ending until bedtime and many are of an age that requires adult supervision.

I’m sorry that you think employees spending hours in traffic (bad for their health and their environment, but I digress) to sit in an office building typing on a computer and having Teams meetings with people in other offices so they can then spend their pay check to have someone else watch their kids after school just isn’t the ideal setup for our country.

if you prioritize all that - then you need to prioritize things like shortening your commute, choosing a smaller house/different schools, or flexing your hours. (I was also told that flexing hours was unacceptable.) I do absolutely run out of sympathy for people who are depending on Covid-era telework to forgo childcare.

I *did* do all these things! I live in a smaller older home that is walkable to metro, that was a short commute to my job (which was hybrid even prior to COVID). But now they got rid of our office building lease b/c COVID telework being so successful. If I have to go back? I have no idea where they would try to fit us (could very well be farther from my house). And as a fed I do have a flex work band. Even my coworkers in their 50s have had this flex band for hours. I don’t think it’s crazy to expect this would continue. And I don’t have “COVID-era” telework. I always had telework.

Suddenly having to go to an office 5 days per week that is likely not as short of a commute as my old office would have me significantly worse off than before COVID ever happened. This isn’t a proposed change to how we did things before and there is no business need to do so. It’s punitive and I think it’s reasonable for people like me to feel upset. And fwiw a lot of Feds are in a similar position. Telework was a recruitment tool prior to 2020 and agencies have done a lot of office downsizing over the past 4 years meaning people’s commutes will suddenly change.

So what’s the problem? You used to drive kids from 4-7 but now you have to work those hours? What does the place of work have to do with this dilemma which seems to be time related? If you’re shuttling kids around you’re not working either at home or in the office.

Oh wow, I didn’t think I had to explain this to you like a toddler, but apparently you can’t follow along.

Flex band means I can be done working by 4. Teleworking means fewer hours commuting.

Having more time in my day and being able to set my own hours means I can be with my kids from 4-7. I was never working in an office after 4 pm since becoming a mom over a decade ago.

You’re not coming across as very sympathetic. Assuming you would never have a commute was a bad assumption on your part.

NP. You’re not coming across as very intelligent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another reason why 1950s America was better.

I’m hoping this is sarcasm because women in the 50s had no choices.

Are you old enough to remember what life was like in the 50s?

[Anonymous]

This is not a black and white issue but RTO and childcare. Who cares if they are of any race?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid has been working from home since well before Covid. When she and her husband decided to have kids they lined up child care first - the grandparents when the kids were babies and a preschool/daycare once they were toddlers. It never occurred to her for a second that she could watch her kids at home herself and work at the same time. It’s not fair to anyone involved.

Time to return to reality, ladies.

Ugh this is such sexist garbage. As PPs have explained the issue isn’t people trying to WAH with a toddler. It’s tacking on the commuting hours to the workday which = needing even more childcare (this is essentially a sudden pay cut — after care for 2 kids can be $700+ per month).

Also my DH works in private sector IT. He and many other *men* (and women) in his field are fully remote. My DH has enjoyed the work/life balance and being home to coach the kids sports after school, he helps cook dinner, etc.

So it’s not just “ladies” who care about being around for their kids. Sorry your daughter couldn’t find a better father for her kids if you think this way.

You all are just missing the point completely. You have been spoiled and frankly got a little lazy. Here's an idea: stop prioritizing giant houses and big yards. If lessening your commute time is so important, move close to your jobs. Bonus: it's better for the environment. These are ideas that those of us who raised children while working FT before the pandemic did. If we got through it, so can you. Just make better decisions.

Everyone, this woman is just angry because her adult kids finally told her they’re going no contact with her due to her general toxicity and hatefulness.

Give her space here to shout at clouds - she’s had a rough Thanksgiving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid has been working from home since well before Covid. When she and her husband decided to have kids they lined up child care first - the grandparents when the kids were babies and a preschool/daycare once they were toddlers. It never occurred to her for a second that she could watch her kids at home herself and work at the same time. It’s not fair to anyone involved.

Time to return to reality, ladies.

Ugh this is such sexist garbage. As PPs have explained the issue isn’t people trying to WAH with a toddler. It’s tacking on the commuting hours to the workday which = needing even more childcare (this is essentially a sudden pay cut — after care for 2 kids can be $700+ per month).

Also my DH works in private sector IT. He and many other *men* (and women) in his field are fully remote. My DH has enjoyed the work/life balance and being home to coach the kids sports after school, he helps cook dinner, etc.

So it’s not just “ladies” who care about being around for their kids. Sorry your daughter couldn’t find a better father for her kids if you think this way.

You all are just missing the point completely. You have been spoiled and frankly got a little lazy. Here's an idea: stop prioritizing giant houses and big yards. If lessening your commute time is so important, move close to your jobs. Bonus: it's better for the environment. These are ideas that those of us who raised children while working FT before the pandemic did. If we got through it, so can you. Just make better decisions.

Everyone, this woman is just angry because her adult kids finally told her they’re going no contact with her due to her general toxicity and hatefulness.

Give her space here to shout at clouds - she’s had a rough Thanksgiving.

😂 I think it is a fundamental misunderstanding that COVID altered the childcare landscape especially for school-aged care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The issue for me is the 8-6 in office requirement. Right now, I work 8-5, pick up my kids, and then work a few more hours at home in the evening. Daycare closes at 6 and I have a 45 minute commute, so I'm not sure what I will go if the 8-6 requirement goes into effect.

A mandate that people now have to be in the office for 10 hours a day is not happening.

DOGE is recommending it for federal workers.

I didn't think DOGE had any enforcing power. That they can just recommend.

I recommend they pay me overtime if they make me work more than 40 hours a week.

They will have to (hi FLSA!) if they are actually going to extend the workweek to more than 40 hours. People, calm down, they are not going to make the workweek 45 hours.

If you're a non-exempt employee, sure. Lots of the people to whom this will apply are exempt, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid has been working from home since well before Covid. When she and her husband decided to have kids they lined up child care first - the grandparents when the kids were babies and a preschool/daycare once they were toddlers. It never occurred to her for a second that she could watch her kids at home herself and work at the same time. It’s not fair to anyone involved.

Time to return to reality, ladies.

Ugh this is such sexist garbage. As PPs have explained the issue isn’t people trying to WAH with a toddler. It’s tacking on the commuting hours to the workday which = needing even more childcare (this is essentially a sudden pay cut — after care for 2 kids can be $700+ per month).

Also my DH works in private sector IT. He and many other *men* (and women) in his field are fully remote. My DH has enjoyed the work/life balance and being home to coach the kids sports after school, he helps cook dinner, etc.

So it’s not just “ladies” who care about being around for their kids. Sorry your daughter couldn’t find a better father for her kids if you think this way.

You all are just missing the point completely. You have been spoiled and frankly got a little lazy. Here's an idea: stop prioritizing giant houses and big yards. If lessening your commute time is so important, move close to your jobs. Bonus: it's better for the environment. These are ideas that those of us who raised children while working FT before the pandemic did. If we got through it, so can you. Just make better decisions.

This works. But what about when you have kids to educate, or you want to change jobs or you have a 2.75% mortgage rate?

Doesn’t it seem a better option for me to not have to move my laptop from office A to office B to use Microsoft Teams?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue for me is the 8-6 in office requirement. Right now, I work 8-5, pick up my kids, and then work a few more hours at home in the evening. Daycare closes at 6 and I have a 45 minute commute, so I'm not sure what I will go if the 8-6 requirement goes into effect.

Who’s required to work 8-6?

DOGE seems to have suggested fed workers will all now have to be in the office every day 8-6, no flexing etc…

I have no idea if this is possible to require. Current schedule is an 8.5 hour day and most offices allow some flexing (9-5:30 or 8-4:30)

Requiring a 50 hour in office workweek would be something…and requiring everyone to be on the exact same schedule would be a traffic debacle, and obviously highly problematic for people with young kids in childcare.

I tend to think the 8-6 thing is the least likely of their many threats but who knows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid has been working from home since well before Covid. When she and her husband decided to have kids they lined up child care first - the grandparents when the kids were babies and a preschool/daycare once they were toddlers. It never occurred to her for a second that she could watch her kids at home herself and work at the same time. It’s not fair to anyone involved.

Time to return to reality, ladies.

Ugh this is such sexist garbage. As PPs have explained the issue isn’t people trying to WAH with a toddler. It’s tacking on the commuting hours to the workday which = needing even more childcare (this is essentially a sudden pay cut — after care for 2 kids can be $700+ per month).

Also my DH works in private sector IT. He and many other *men* (and women) in his field are fully remote. My DH has enjoyed the work/life balance and being home to coach the kids sports after school, he helps cook dinner, etc.

So it’s not just “ladies” who care about being around for their kids. Sorry your daughter couldn’t find a better father for her kids if you think this way.

You all are just missing the point completely. You have been spoiled and frankly got a little lazy. Here's an idea: stop prioritizing giant houses and big yards. If lessening your commute time is so important, move close to your jobs. Bonus: it's better for the environment. These are ideas that those of us who raised children while working FT before the pandemic did. If we got through it, so can you. Just make better decisions.

Everyone, this woman is just angry because her adult kids finally told her they’re going no contact with her due to her general toxicity and hatefulness.

Give her space here to shout at clouds - she’s had a rough Thanksgiving.

😂 I think it is a fundamental misunderstanding that COVID altered the childcare landscape especially for school-aged care.

This -- if you raised kids or even before Covid you don't understand that parents with kids under age 10 don't have the same options anymore and have to deal with more instability in school schedules. Our school assumes weekday flexibility and availability in a way it never used to while also offering fewer after school programs. I'm on the PTA and we had to fight last year to get guaranteed childcare on Wednesday afternoons when our school does half days for PD -- this school year is the first year that the school can guarantee childcare for anyone who wants it (and will pay for it) so that they can just pick their kids up at the normal time as opposed to 12:30pm. And even the limited number of spots available in previous years only started in 2022 -- there was nothing for parents in 2021. So if, like me, you have a 5th grader this year, you've spent the last four years with either no school at all (Covid Closure 2020-2021), school but no aftercare including on short school days (2021-2022), school and aftercare but limited by lottery with no guarantee you'll get a spot (2022-2024), or school an guaranteed childcare until 3:30 but still limited aftercare spots (2024).

And now my kid is finally old enough that I could just have her home while I WFH without needing childcare and there's renewed demand for RTO. We will make it work with after school activities she can walk to and coordinating with other parents but if she were 7 or 8 that wouldn't be an option -- I couldn't just have her walk the 3/4 of a mile to ballet and then walk to her friend's house from ballet until my DH or I can pick her up at 5:30 like I can now.

[Anonymous]

As a parent whose kid spent all of kindergarten on the aftercare waiting list at our DCPS, many years before COVID, I always wonder where those people who say that everything changed after Covid get their information?