AEM post/discussion re racism and choice schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this thread. My daughter was zoned for a North Arlington school, and we lotteried into Campbell, which is far more diverse and a Title I school. Many of her friends at Campbell were zoned for diverse South Arlington schools, but they lotteried from one diverse, high FARMS school into a different diverse, high FARMS school.

The person who started it on AEM is addicted to attention

I don’t think it’s addicted to attention, I just think he’s neurodivergent and doesn’t understand some social normalities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The option schools (other than immersion which I strongly support) are terrible for APS. It is a brain drain of the neighborhood schools (mostly South Arlington. The problem with the post is that the author is one of those people that sees everything through a race lens even when it’s not the major driver (if at all) for people opting out of neighborhood schools.

Option schools are diverse but it is full of families who take initiative in their kids education. Their scores are better and they have more homework, structure, dress codes, etc. those are things my family values. All these families leaving their neighborhood schools to opt in to a more “traditional” or Montessori education are hurting the neighborhood. This is because the biggest indicator of success is a child’s peers. We should end the option programs and replicate what works (ATS) across APS. If you want a special Montessori curriculum for your kids, go private or start lobbying for school choice because that’s what’s you want.

(Side bar on immersion: these are the best environments for kids learning English and/or Spanish. As we get more EL students these programs are even more important. Ideally any kid not speaking English fluently would be in immersion that is 50-50 English/spanish).

Majority of parents DONT want more homework.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not PP, but I agree. Families definitely opt IN to immersion. No one’s choosing immersion (especially now that they’re doing 80/20) just to avoid their neighborhood school.

Other option schools seem more likely to attract families who want to opt OUT of their neighborhood schools.

JF needs to understand correlation does not equal causation. Perhaps families aren’t trying to avoid diversity (racial and/or economic) but are horrified by low test scores. Of course, school performance is linked to economic status (not always race. Look at some majaority white schools in Kentucky that happen to be very low income). But is it fair to say Arlington families want to get away from black/brown kids? No, it’s not.

And JF wasn’t advocating for VLP to exist during Covid only. He wanted to fund the program in perpetuity. Despite having Virtual Virginia already available. So, spare me, dude.

Look at the transfer report. There are clear reasons people are opting out of their neighborhood school for immersion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doesn’t one of the main posters send their kid to a high school program that they’re not zoned for?

Yes, but I think that was part of the complaint, that the program is overwhelmingly white. So parents taking advantage of the choices aren’t contributing positively to SES diversity. That said, we completed an application for said program even though we were pretty sure our DC wanted to stay in the zoned HS, and it was a barrier in my mind. They required an essay, as does Arl Tech, and that alone made it seem “exclusive,” and not just a lottery not based on “merit.” So it’s not a real surprise to me that it’s attracting a certain type of family/student, ones who aren’t intimidated by the barrier.

But these programs are not designed specifically for SES diversity. It would be one thing if that is how they were designed/marketed, but... they aren't. More change needed of course.

Sure, but I think the point is if it’s not contributing it might be harming, and that’s not great. I don’t agree that this is the case at the ES level, because walkable ES boundaries just cannot make desegregated schools at this level, even if you remove all the option schools. You’d just be shuffling the segregation to an alternate school. And the policies in place, to a large degree, have kept the option ES a fairly close reflection of the overall APS demographic.

But the option programs at the MS and HS level are not reflective of the APS demographic and that feels wrong to me, and to the poster. Seems like a policy issue here, and one that’s solvable.

Yes and no. Admissions policies could potentially require %s of male/female; %sED; etc. But if academic preparedness and learning style and subject-matter passion aren't aligned, no such student should be admitted to a program designed for those things. And if an option program is not designed for those things, then it shouldn't be an option - because it's really not a unique program. The whole purpose of an alternative instructional model is to address the different learning styles of students. Not to give families options for the sake of having options or to create schools of specific demographics.

The real solution is to address education at the elementary and middle school levels and eliminate achievement gaps so that students from all backgrounds are (1) prepared for a specific program and (2) have more interest in such programs. In conjunction, admission policies such as "x" number of slots available for students from each elementary or middle school (like HBW admissions) help; but fuller admission policies that include demographics like I mentioned above would produce much better diversity results.

Correct, but how? If you know the answer, AND how you can get the community to buy in to implement the how when it seems like their precious snowflakes might not have each and every advantage all for themselves, in all sincerity you should be in charge.

APS needs to lead. Sometimes you lead and people eventually follow, rather than never leading and waiting for 100% "buy-in." That's the dog wagging the tail rather than the tail wagging the dog. I don't believe implementing a new way would actually be the ruin of APS. People will flee but ultimately the system would be accepted. There's almost always a period of transition when major change takes place. Like the CT school that eliminated cell phones during the school day. They LED! They made a sound policy choice in the best interest of student learning and took the attitude that people will just have to adjust and deal with it. THAT's leadership because they also took concerns into consideration and calmly respond and bring people aboard AFTERward. They had faith they were doing the right thing and trusted it to work out. APS "leadership" doesn't have that trust in its students or its community.

Rank choice is the San Francisco model, and that was a disaster.

[Anonymous]

I think Berkeley, Ca does ranked choice too for the elementary grades. But there is only one high school which has always been well regarded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doesn’t one of the main posters send their kid to a high school program that they’re not zoned for?

Yes, but I think that was part of the complaint, that the program is overwhelmingly white. So parents taking advantage of the choices aren’t contributing positively to SES diversity. That said, we completed an application for said program even though we were pretty sure our DC wanted to stay in the zoned HS, and it was a barrier in my mind. They required an essay, as does Arl Tech, and that alone made it seem “exclusive,” and not just a lottery not based on “merit.” So it’s not a real surprise to me that it’s attracting a certain type of family/student, ones who aren’t intimidated by the barrier.

But these programs are not designed specifically for SES diversity. It would be one thing if that is how they were designed/marketed, but... they aren't. More change needed of course.

Sure, but I think the point is if it’s not contributing it might be harming, and that’s not great. I don’t agree that this is the case at the ES level, because walkable ES boundaries just cannot make desegregated schools at this level, even if you remove all the option schools. You’d just be shuffling the segregation to an alternate school. And the policies in place, to a large degree, have kept the option ES a fairly close reflection of the overall APS demographic.

But the option programs at the MS and HS level are not reflective of the APS demographic and that feels wrong to me, and to the poster. Seems like a policy issue here, and one that’s solvable.

Yes and no. Admissions policies could potentially require %s of male/female; %sED; etc. But if academic preparedness and learning style and subject-matter passion aren't aligned, no such student should be admitted to a program designed for those things. And if an option program is not designed for those things, then it shouldn't be an option - because it's really not a unique program. The whole purpose of an alternative instructional model is to address the different learning styles of students. Not to give families options for the sake of having options or to create schools of specific demographics.

The real solution is to address education at the elementary and middle school levels and eliminate achievement gaps so that students from all backgrounds are (1) prepared for a specific program and (2) have more interest in such programs. In conjunction, admission policies such as "x" number of slots available for students from each elementary or middle school (like HBW admissions) help; but fuller admission policies that include demographics like I mentioned above would produce much better diversity results.

Correct, but how? If you know the answer, AND how you can get the community to buy in to implement the how when it seems like their precious snowflakes might not have each and every advantage all for themselves, in all sincerity you should be in charge.

APS needs to lead. Sometimes you lead and people eventually follow, rather than never leading and waiting for 100% "buy-in." That's the dog wagging the tail rather than the tail wagging the dog. I don't believe implementing a new way would actually be the ruin of APS. People will flee but ultimately the system would be accepted. There's almost always a period of transition when major change takes place. Like the CT school that eliminated cell phones during the school day. They LED! They made a sound policy choice in the best interest of student learning and took the attitude that people will just have to adjust and deal with it. THAT's leadership because they also took concerns into consideration and calmly respond and bring people aboard AFTERward. They had faith they were doing the right thing and trusted it to work out. APS "leadership" doesn't have that trust in its students or its community.

Rank choice is the San Francisco model, and that was a disaster.

What happened?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this thread. My daughter was zoned for a North Arlington school, and we lotteried into Campbell, which is far more diverse and a Title I school. Many of her friends at Campbell were zoned for diverse South Arlington schools, but they lotteried from one diverse, high FARMS school into a different diverse, high FARMS school.

The person who started it on AEM is addicted to attention

I don’t think it’s addicted to attention, I just think he’s neurodivergent and doesn’t understand some social normalities.

I don't think he's necessarily neurodivergent. But he's letting others carry his water for him. Be careful if you do decide to act further. Look at all of these people doing research on his behalf.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this thread. My daughter was zoned for a North Arlington school, and we lotteried into Campbell, which is far more diverse and a Title I school. Many of her friends at Campbell were zoned for diverse South Arlington schools, but they lotteried from one diverse, high FARMS school into a different diverse, high FARMS school.

The person who started it on AEM is addicted to attention

I don’t think it’s addicted to attention, I just think he’s neurodivergent and doesn’t understand some social normalities.

I don't think he's necessarily neurodivergent. But he's letting others carry his water for him. Be careful if you do decide to act further. Look at all of these people doing research on his behalf.

It's manipulative. Take a stand a stick with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not PP, but I agree. Families definitely opt IN to immersion. No one’s choosing immersion (especially now that they’re doing 80/20) just to avoid their neighborhood school.

Other option schools seem more likely to attract families who want to opt OUT of their neighborhood schools.

JF needs to understand correlation does not equal causation. Perhaps families aren’t trying to avoid diversity (racial and/or economic) but are horrified by low test scores. Of course, school performance is linked to economic status (not always race. Look at some majaority white schools in Kentucky that happen to be very low income). But is it fair to say Arlington families want to get away from black/brown kids? No, it’s not.

And JF wasn’t advocating for VLP to exist during Covid only. He wanted to fund the program in perpetuity. Despite having Virtual Virginia already available. So, spare me, dude.

Look at the transfer report. There are clear reasons people are opting out of their neighborhood school for immersion.

Maybe not as clear as you think. I don’t fault anyone for choosing something other than a high-poverty school with low test scores. People are proving they will go to diverse schools (look at option school demographics), just those that perform better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this thread. My daughter was zoned for a North Arlington school, and we lotteried into Campbell, which is far more diverse and a Title I school. Many of her friends at Campbell were zoned for diverse South Arlington schools, but they lotteried from one diverse, high FARMS school into a different diverse, high FARMS school.

You're not the "problem." The problem is that families in South Arlington have "liberal or progressive values" and yet they all are clamoring to escape their neighborhood schools. These same people think charter schools and school choice/vouchers are TERRIBLE yet they functionally are taking advantage of those programs. It causes a brain drain in those neighborhood schools. The best indicator future success is your peer group. Every family in SA that cares about education is moving out. It has nothing to do with race or class as many rightly pointed out that the option schools are very diverse both racially and economically (based on FRL status).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this thread. My daughter was zoned for a North Arlington school, and we lotteried into Campbell, which is far more diverse and a Title I school. Many of her friends at Campbell were zoned for diverse South Arlington schools, but they lotteried from one diverse, high FARMS school into a different diverse, high FARMS school.

You're not the "problem." The problem is that families in South Arlington have "liberal or progressive values" and yet they all are clamoring to escape their neighborhood schools. These same people think charter schools and school choice/vouchers are TERRIBLE yet they functionally are taking advantage of those programs. It causes a brain drain in those neighborhood schools. The best indicator future success is your peer group. Every family in SA that cares about education is moving out. It has nothing to do with race or class as many rightly pointed out that the option schools are very diverse both racially and economically (based on FRL status).

Disagree that the problem is SA families. NA families do the same thing but with money instead of choice. Everyone in Arlington is a liberal except when it comes to schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this thread. My daughter was zoned for a North Arlington school, and we lotteried into Campbell, which is far more diverse and a Title I school. Many of her friends at Campbell were zoned for diverse South Arlington schools, but they lotteried from one diverse, high FARMS school into a different diverse, high FARMS school.

The person who started it on AEM is addicted to attention

I don’t think it’s addicted to attention, I just think he’s neurodivergent and doesn’t understand some social normalities.

I don't think he's necessarily neurodivergent. But he's letting others carry his water for him. Be careful if you do decide to act further. Look at all of these people doing research on his behalf.

Can you elaborate on that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this thread. My daughter was zoned for a North Arlington school, and we lotteried into Campbell, which is far more diverse and a Title I school. Many of her friends at Campbell were zoned for diverse South Arlington schools, but they lotteried from one diverse, high FARMS school into a different diverse, high FARMS school.

You're not the "problem." The problem is that families in South Arlington have "liberal or progressive values" and yet they all are clamoring to escape their neighborhood schools. These same people think charter schools and school choice/vouchers are TERRIBLE yet they functionally are taking advantage of those programs. It causes a brain drain in those neighborhood schools. The best indicator future success is your peer group. Every family in SA that cares about education is moving out. It has nothing to do with race or class as many rightly pointed out that the option schools are very diverse both racially and economically (based on FRL status).

You know, it IS possible to have progressive values and STILL value high educational standards. Some of us wish they would implement these standards (educational and behavioral) at ALL schools, but some parents prefer a hands-off approach when it comes to school. (Not that you need to be a PTA mom, but mayyyyybe make your kid GO to school?)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this thread. My daughter was zoned for a North Arlington school, and we lotteried into Campbell, which is far more diverse and a Title I school. Many of her friends at Campbell were zoned for diverse South Arlington schools, but they lotteried from one diverse, high FARMS school into a different diverse, high FARMS school.

You're not the "problem." The problem is that families in South Arlington have "liberal or progressive values" and yet they all are clamoring to escape their neighborhood schools. These same people think charter schools and school choice/vouchers are TERRIBLE yet they functionally are taking advantage of those programs. It causes a brain drain in those neighborhood schools. The best indicator future success is your peer group. Every family in SA that cares about education is moving out. It has nothing to do with race or class as many rightly pointed out that the option schools are very diverse both racially and economically (based on FRL status).

Disagree that the problem is SA families. NA families do the same thing but with money instead of choice. Everyone in Arlington is a liberal except when it comes to schools.

Exactly, such BS that the problem is SA families when housing prices in NA are hundreds of thousands of dollars more for very similar houses (in lots of cases). They are published in the paper and Arlington Magazine every month, we can all see that people are paying huge premiums for odd zip codes so they can go to the neighborhood school.

People will say "oh we're closer to 66" but come on, that's not everyone. And if you're going into the city the blue and yellow lines are in south Arlington, just as the orange line is jn north Arlington, but there is no "metro proximity" bonus because of the school performance and HS choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this thread. My daughter was zoned for a North Arlington school, and we lotteried into Campbell, which is far more diverse and a Title I school. Many of her friends at Campbell were zoned for diverse South Arlington schools, but they lotteried from one diverse, high FARMS school into a different diverse, high FARMS school.

You're not the "problem." The problem is that families in South Arlington have "liberal or progressive values" and yet they all are clamoring to escape their neighborhood schools. These same people think charter schools and school choice/vouchers are TERRIBLE yet they functionally are taking advantage of those programs. It causes a brain drain in those neighborhood schools. The best indicator future success is your peer group. Every family in SA that cares about education is moving out. It has nothing to do with race or class as many rightly pointed out that the option schools are very diverse both racially and economically (based on FRL status).

Disagree that the problem is SA families. NA families do the same thing but with money instead of choice. Everyone in Arlington is a liberal except when it comes to schools.

SA is FAR more liberal than NA. NA families are pretty open about why they moved to NA: schools and commute. I don't have a problem with people who own their decisions. It's people who cry racism and tout their progressive values and then attend option schools that make me roll my eyes. The AEM poster is also very out of touch. The BIPOC community in cities is far more pro-school choice/vouchers than the white saviors who say it will destroy education (despite many progressive countries in Europe having a choice model).