Violence in Kindergarten- Sligo Creek Elementary

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And the person who was injured yesterday and has staples in her head is a paraeducator, not a classroom teacher.

Then she wasn't doing her job, assuming she was in room to help with that student.

If, of course, any part of this story is true at all.

What in the f?

Why would you assume she was in the room as a 1:1 to that student?

Why would you assume that someone doing their job as a 1:1 aide can’t be harmed by a kid?

Are we all living on the same planet where a 6 year old shot a teacher last year or were you at your home base on Mars for that?

Why? Because MCPS's standard for getting a 1:1 is far less than what has been described in this thread.

And an adult that is paying attention should be more than capable of preventing a 6 year old from obtaining and throwing an apparently heavy object. Again, if this story is actually a true story, which seems less and less likely.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You think it is so easy that you stand next to the child and say -no, please stop, go back to your seat - and the out of control child automatically follows your directions?

That’s not how it works -you are trying to block getting bitten, kicked and hit at the same time to you are trying to prevent other kids from being attacked. You can’t physically restrain the out of control child like you could your own son or daughter. You really can’t touch the out of control child either. How do you prevent the child from obtaining heavy objects when the room is literally full of heavy objects. So the kid picks up a chair and you grab the chair, then get kicked in the shins at the same time and try not to fall over or get kicked again or stomped on. Meanwhile the kid rushes away from you and grabs a stapler and chucks it. Or a water bottle or heavy book. Or a pencil and tries to poke another kid.

It’s ridiculous you think it is so easy and keep denying teachers and staff members are being seriously assaulted all over the country by elementary aged students.

Very creative. But again, we're talking about a kindergartener. An adult assigned to a child should be able to prevent that child from obtaining and throwing an object like a water bottle. And a good paraeducator would be able to guide the child to calming strategies before a situation escalates to that level. That's literally the job.

You never answered the question how the adult prevents the child from obtaining an object. You can't restrain the child in any way, so don't include that in your answer. Teachers have been seriously injured by kindergarten and first grade students. you magically think someone getting paid $18 an hour is a kindergarten whisperer who is going to calm the student down when no one else can? You have very obviously never seen a raging out of control student and/or you are an administrator who does an awful job or parent who thinks your child can do no wrong.

This is the type of gaslighting from administrators and parents of out of control kids that make special education teachers and general education teachers quit
Administrators who tell teachers-
if you only build a relationship with the kid, he or she wouldn't have bashed you in the head with a water bottle, so the 8 staples in your head is basically your fault.
Oh it's just a kindergarten student, they don't kick that hard or bite that deeply.
What did you do to make the student so upset? You should let him have whatever he wants.
Why aren't you calming the student down, you should be able to do that before the student escalates
Why aren't you providing the student with rewards (of course they are never provided by the school, the teacher has to spend his or her own money)?

Really?

You grab it before they do. Or take it away from them before they throw it.

It's time for you to retire.

NP. Surely you're aware that there are ~25 kids in these classrooms. There's no way a teacher is grabbing something away if she's across the room. Are you always this obtuse? I suggest you spend some time volunteering in the classroom to see what the realities are.

Oh, and as teachers retire, there isn't a fresh crop to replace them. Think about that for a minute.

It sounds like this child has a 1:1. Did you miss that part of the thread?

No, it does not sound like this child has a 1:1. It sounds like there was an aide present in the classroom and she got hurt. There is one who floats in K at SCES; she’s not 1:1 with a specific student.

The main thing it sounds like is that you really have no idea how bad the staffing situation is.

If that's true, then it is even more outrageous how much this school is failing this student. It's not hard to fill paraeducator positions. They're highly desired positions among child care workers.

Again. It really sounds like you do not understand how bad the staffing situation is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Denial is thick in this thread.

So many either do not want to believe there is rampant violence in our public schools, or are denying the truth for som nefarious reason.

The first step in correcting a problem is to acknowledge the problem exists.

Because child-victims are involved, we cannot “say their names!” as in other awareness campaigns.

But we can at least watch the video available to us.

Watch this, for example; no - it is not kindergarteners. These are teenagers. But watch it, and stop claiming there is no problem.

We have a problem:

https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/qv8nku/i_found_this_video_earlier/?rdt=46196

And this one, just last week - the victim is still in a coma and her prognosis is unknown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not sped it kids coming from violent homes. There are plenty of parents out there who beat their kids

It is more kids coming from super permissive homes where there is no discipline just screens whenever the student demands it, no structure, and the kid who is often smart and strong willed soon realizes he or she can do whatever they want and the parent won't intervene. So the parent walks on eggshells or gives in to all the kid's demands because they don't want to see the kid tantrum. So the kid comes to school and realizes no one can touch them or do anything to them. The teacher tells the parent the student is misbehaving and there are NO consequences at home. There are also no rewards that are effective because the student gets whatever they want at home.

Teacher here. This is more likely the case. I have a student who is nearly as tall as I am and she's 6 yrs old. The only way her mom can get her to school (according to her mom) is to let her walk with her (the student's) phone. When mom gets her to the front door, she walks inside with her until she lines up with her class and then her mom tries to quickly pull the phone away and hightail it out of there. Needless to say, it's like WW3 every morning. My colleague and I end up blocking the door with our bodies to prevent her from running out the door after her mom. We've had meetings about this (and her other awful behaviors) but the real problem is mom's inability to say no. This child has tantrums like a 2 yr old multiple times per day. They last for at least 15 minutes and the entire class comes to a halt because she is screaming the entire time. This child doesn't have special needs. Her mother just doesn't want to parent so all of us get to deal with that. There are 3-4 of these kids in every grade.

I just spent 7 weeks working in an out of school time program at the YMCA in a Title I schools community.

Hands down, the kids with diagnoses or who were SPED were LESS disruptive and problematic than the kids who simply are not being parented, period.

These are average to above average intellect kids who are running the show in our classrooms and other youth development programs because the new social justice paradigm (I am, by the way, uber liberal and was an antiracist before the term was in any kind of widespread use) is that you don't discipline these kids or kick them out of the program as your progressive accountability structure allows - you just keep abiding and trying to give them positive incentives to conform their behavior to norms.

And in the meantime the vast majority of kids who make good choices are getting bullied and traumatized by witnesses bullying and assaults both physical and verbal on a regular basis - on them, their peers and yes, on their adult instructors.

For some percentage of kids, seeing those things on a regular basis normalizes that kind of behavior and violence and it invites some kids to engage in behaviors they never otherwise would have tried.

It's a disaster, truly. I was planning to go into public school teaching through a program that requires a 2 year commitment to a Title I school district and I've decided - NO THANKS.

It would be different if there was any accountability structure left for kids who make bad choices, but there really isn't. The school district where I was going to teach is one among many nationwide that have been sued for having an in school and out of school suspension program and for using it as designed. While investigation by the federal OCV found there was no intent to racial bias in using the progressive accountability structure, the majority of kids who ended up being in and out of school suspended were BIPOC and so it was no longer okay to use it because apparently we are just going to abide the behavior and that's going to motivate the kids to change and conform to social norms.

Is anyone really surprised that violence is more and more normative in our society?

What really makes me sad is that this is just a recycling of the soft bigotry of low expectations. These social justice warriors in our schools and other youth development program leadership structures think they a striking a blow for antiracism, but to me it looks like they are enabling and encouraging kids into the juvenile justice system and eventually likely the adult justice system, just in a different fashion than the previous school to prison pipeline.

And yes, plenty of the disruptive kids are white, too. We are failing all these kids whose parents already did. We'll pay the price down the road as we always have done.

You know it's going to be good anytime someone starts a rant assuring others that they're not a racist. And this one did not disappoint.

Let me guess, you have black friends, too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And the person who was injured yesterday and has staples in her head is a paraeducator, not a classroom teacher.

Then she wasn't doing her job, assuming she was in room to help with that student.

If, of course, any part of this story is true at all.

What in the f?

Why would you assume she was in the room as a 1:1 to that student?

Why would you assume that someone doing their job as a 1:1 aide can’t be harmed by a kid?

Are we all living on the same planet where a 6 year old shot a teacher last year or were you at your home base on Mars for that?

Why? Because MCPS's standard for getting a 1:1 is far less than what has been described in this thread.

And an adult that is paying attention should be more than capable of preventing a 6 year old from obtaining and throwing an apparently heavy object. Again, if this story is actually a true story, which seems less and less likely.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You think it is so easy that you stand next to the child and say -no, please stop, go back to your seat - and the out of control child automatically follows your directions?

That’s not how it works -you are trying to block getting bitten, kicked and hit at the same time to you are trying to prevent other kids from being attacked. You can’t physically restrain the out of control child like you could your own son or daughter. You really can’t touch the out of control child either. How do you prevent the child from obtaining heavy objects when the room is literally full of heavy objects. So the kid picks up a chair and you grab the chair, then get kicked in the shins at the same time and try not to fall over or get kicked again or stomped on. Meanwhile the kid rushes away from you and grabs a stapler and chucks it. Or a water bottle or heavy book. Or a pencil and tries to poke another kid.

It’s ridiculous you think it is so easy and keep denying teachers and staff members are being seriously assaulted all over the country by elementary aged students.

Very creative. But again, we're talking about a kindergartener. An adult assigned to a child should be able to prevent that child from obtaining and throwing an object like a water bottle. And a good paraeducator would be able to guide the child to calming strategies before a situation escalates to that level. That's literally the job.

You never answered the question how the adult prevents the child from obtaining an object. You can't restrain the child in any way, so don't include that in your answer. Teachers have been seriously injured by kindergarten and first grade students. you magically think someone getting paid $18 an hour is a kindergarten whisperer who is going to calm the student down when no one else can? You have very obviously never seen a raging out of control student and/or you are an administrator who does an awful job or parent who thinks your child can do no wrong.

This is the type of gaslighting from administrators and parents of out of control kids that make special education teachers and general education teachers quit
Administrators who tell teachers-
if you only build a relationship with the kid, he or she wouldn't have bashed you in the head with a water bottle, so the 8 staples in your head is basically your fault.
Oh it's just a kindergarten student, they don't kick that hard or bite that deeply.
What did you do to make the student so upset? You should let him have whatever he wants.
Why aren't you calming the student down, you should be able to do that before the student escalates
Why aren't you providing the student with rewards (of course they are never provided by the school, the teacher has to spend his or her own money)?

Really?

You grab it before they do. Or take it away from them before they throw it.

It's time for you to retire.

NP. Surely you're aware that there are ~25 kids in these classrooms. There's no way a teacher is grabbing something away if she's across the room. Are you always this obtuse? I suggest you spend some time volunteering in the classroom to see what the realities are.

Oh, and as teachers retire, there isn't a fresh crop to replace them. Think about that for a minute.

It sounds like this child has a 1:1. Did you miss that part of the thread?

No, it does not sound like this child has a 1:1. It sounds like there was an aide present in the classroom and she got hurt. There is one who floats in K at SCES; she’s not 1:1 with a specific student.

The main thing it sounds like is that you really have no idea how bad the staffing situation is.

If that's true, then it is even more outrageous how much this school is failing this student. It's not hard to fill paraeducator positions. They're highly desired positions among child care workers.

Again. It really sounds like you do not understand how bad the staffing situation is.

You don't seem to understand where the bottleneck is. There are plenty of people that want these positions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Denial is thick in this thread.

So many either do not want to believe there is rampant violence in our public schools, or are denying the truth for som nefarious reason.

The first step in correcting a problem is to acknowledge the problem exists.

Because child-victims are involved, we cannot “say their names!” as in other awareness campaigns.

But we can at least watch the video available to us.

Watch this, for example; no - it is not kindergarteners. These are teenagers. But watch it, and stop claiming there is no problem.

We have a problem:

https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/qv8nku/i_found_this_video_earlier/?rdt=46196

And this one, just last week - the victim is still in a coma and her prognosis is unknown.

They need to start holding patents more accountable b

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not sped it kids coming from violent homes. There are plenty of parents out there who beat their kids

It is more kids coming from super permissive homes where there is no discipline just screens whenever the student demands it, no structure, and the kid who is often smart and strong willed soon realizes he or she can do whatever they want and the parent won't intervene. So the parent walks on eggshells or gives in to all the kid's demands because they don't want to see the kid tantrum. So the kid comes to school and realizes no one can touch them or do anything to them. The teacher tells the parent the student is misbehaving and there are NO consequences at home. There are also no rewards that are effective because the student gets whatever they want at home.

Teacher here. This is more likely the case. I have a student who is nearly as tall as I am and she's 6 yrs old. The only way her mom can get her to school (according to her mom) is to let her walk with her (the student's) phone. When mom gets her to the front door, she walks inside with her until she lines up with her class and then her mom tries to quickly pull the phone away and hightail it out of there. Needless to say, it's like WW3 every morning. My colleague and I end up blocking the door with our bodies to prevent her from running out the door after her mom. We've had meetings about this (and her other awful behaviors) but the real problem is mom's inability to say no. This child has tantrums like a 2 yr old multiple times per day. They last for at least 15 minutes and the entire class comes to a halt because she is screaming the entire time. This child doesn't have special needs. Her mother just doesn't want to parent so all of us get to deal with that. There are 3-4 of these kids in every grade.

I just spent 7 weeks working in an out of school time program at the YMCA in a Title I schools community.

Hands down, the kids with diagnoses or who were SPED were LESS disruptive and problematic than the kids who simply are not being parented, period.

These are average to above average intellect kids who are running the show in our classrooms and other youth development programs because the new social justice paradigm (I am, by the way, uber liberal and was an antiracist before the term was in any kind of widespread use) is that you don't discipline these kids or kick them out of the program as your progressive accountability structure allows - you just keep abiding and trying to give them positive incentives to conform their behavior to norms.

And in the meantime the vast majority of kids who make good choices are getting bullied and traumatized by witnesses bullying and assaults both physical and verbal on a regular basis - on them, their peers and yes, on their adult instructors.

For some percentage of kids, seeing those things on a regular basis normalizes that kind of behavior and violence and it invites some kids to engage in behaviors they never otherwise would have tried.

It's a disaster, truly. I was planning to go into public school teaching through a program that requires a 2 year commitment to a Title I school district and I've decided - NO THANKS.

It would be different if there was any accountability structure left for kids who make bad choices, but there really isn't. The school district where I was going to teach is one among many nationwide that have been sued for having an in school and out of school suspension program and for using it as designed. While investigation by the federal OCV found there was no intent to racial bias in using the progressive accountability structure, the majority of kids who ended up being in and out of school suspended were BIPOC and so it was no longer okay to use it because apparently we are just going to abide the behavior and that's going to motivate the kids to change and conform to social norms.

Is anyone really surprised that violence is more and more normative in our society?

What really makes me sad is that this is just a recycling of the soft bigotry of low expectations. These social justice warriors in our schools and other youth development program leadership structures think they a striking a blow for antiracism, but to me it looks like they are enabling and encouraging kids into the juvenile justice system and eventually likely the adult justice system, just in a different fashion than the previous school to prison pipeline.

And yes, plenty of the disruptive kids are white, too. We are failing all these kids whose parents already did. We'll pay the price down the road as we always have done.

You know it's going to be good anytime someone starts a rant assuring others that they're not a racist. And this one did not disappoint.

Let me guess, you have black friends, too?

I have spent my entire career working in BIPOC communities, and yes, many if not most of my friends are BIPOC.

It's so easy to jump to calling people racist if they want any accountability for the poor behavior choices of kids or adults and that happens to include in Title I communities a fair number of BIPOC kids.

Again, I've been uber liberal my whole life. My friends used to call me a thug hugger, and it was many of my BIPOC friends who most deeply criticized my idealism and progressive ideals.

Just for reference, I've spent my career as an educator, domestic violence advocate, CASA, legal aid attorney, public defender, prosecutor, solo law practice attorney who took poor clients and charged on a sliding scale like a nonprofit firm (I was definitely nonprofit, lol), and most recently working with a very mixed race population of elder and disabled healthcare clients, many on hospice status.

I lived and worked on a reservation out West, I lived and worked on the AZ/Mexico border, attended law school and did criminal clinic in DC with clients living mostly in SE and Anacostia, currently live in a very diverse area and work and socialize with a diverse community.

But yeah, I'm a racist. You caught me out. I must be racist if my desire to see the majority of kids of all colors succeed in our schools might mean that a small percentage of kids of color get suspended or placed in alternative school settings. I'm a big bad racist for wanting that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not sped it kids coming from violent homes. There are plenty of parents out there who beat their kids

It is more kids coming from super permissive homes where there is no discipline just screens whenever the student demands it, no structure, and the kid who is often smart and strong willed soon realizes he or she can do whatever they want and the parent won't intervene. So the parent walks on eggshells or gives in to all the kid's demands because they don't want to see the kid tantrum. So the kid comes to school and realizes no one can touch them or do anything to them. The teacher tells the parent the student is misbehaving and there are NO consequences at home. There are also no rewards that are effective because the student gets whatever they want at home.

Teacher here. This is more likely the case. I have a student who is nearly as tall as I am and she's 6 yrs old. The only way her mom can get her to school (according to her mom) is to let her walk with her (the student's) phone. When mom gets her to the front door, she walks inside with her until she lines up with her class and then her mom tries to quickly pull the phone away and hightail it out of there. Needless to say, it's like WW3 every morning. My colleague and I end up blocking the door with our bodies to prevent her from running out the door after her mom. We've had meetings about this (and her other awful behaviors) but the real problem is mom's inability to say no. This child has tantrums like a 2 yr old multiple times per day. They last for at least 15 minutes and the entire class comes to a halt because she is screaming the entire time. This child doesn't have special needs. Her mother just doesn't want to parent so all of us get to deal with that. There are 3-4 of these kids in every grade.

I just spent 7 weeks working in an out of school time program at the YMCA in a Title I schools community.

Hands down, the kids with diagnoses or who were SPED were LESS disruptive and problematic than the kids who simply are not being parented, period.

These are average to above average intellect kids who are running the show in our classrooms and other youth development programs because the new social justice paradigm (I am, by the way, uber liberal and was an antiracist before the term was in any kind of widespread use) is that you don't discipline these kids or kick them out of the program as your progressive accountability structure allows - you just keep abiding and trying to give them positive incentives to conform their behavior to norms.

And in the meantime the vast majority of kids who make good choices are getting bullied and traumatized by witnesses bullying and assaults both physical and verbal on a regular basis - on them, their peers and yes, on their adult instructors.

For some percentage of kids, seeing those things on a regular basis normalizes that kind of behavior and violence and it invites some kids to engage in behaviors they never otherwise would have tried.

It's a disaster, truly. I was planning to go into public school teaching through a program that requires a 2 year commitment to a Title I school district and I've decided - NO THANKS.

It would be different if there was any accountability structure left for kids who make bad choices, but there really isn't. The school district where I was going to teach is one among many nationwide that have been sued for having an in school and out of school suspension program and for using it as designed. While investigation by the federal OCV found there was no intent to racial bias in using the progressive accountability structure, the majority of kids who ended up being in and out of school suspended were BIPOC and so it was no longer okay to use it because apparently we are just going to abide the behavior and that's going to motivate the kids to change and conform to social norms.

Is anyone really surprised that violence is more and more normative in our society?

What really makes me sad is that this is just a recycling of the soft bigotry of low expectations. These social justice warriors in our schools and other youth development program leadership structures think they a striking a blow for antiracism, but to me it looks like they are enabling and encouraging kids into the juvenile justice system and eventually likely the adult justice system, just in a different fashion than the previous school to prison pipeline.

And yes, plenty of the disruptive kids are white, too. We are failing all these kids whose parents already did. We'll pay the price down the road as we always have done.

You know it's going to be good anytime someone starts a rant assuring others that they're not a racist. And this one did not disappoint.

Let me guess, you have black friends, too?

I have spent my entire career working in BIPOC communities, and yes, many if not most of my friends are BIPOC.

It's so easy to jump to calling people racist if they want any accountability for the poor behavior choices of kids or adults and that happens to include in Title I communities a fair number of BIPOC kids.

Again, I've been uber liberal my whole life. My friends used to call me a thug hugger, and it was many of my BIPOC friends who most deeply criticized my idealism and progressive ideals.

Just for reference, I've spent my career as an educator, domestic violence advocate, CASA, legal aid attorney, public defender, prosecutor, solo law practice attorney who took poor clients and charged on a sliding scale like a nonprofit firm (I was definitely nonprofit, lol), and most recently working with a very mixed race population of elder and disabled healthcare clients, many on hospice status.

I lived and worked on a reservation out West, I lived and worked on the AZ/Mexico border, attended law school and did criminal clinic in DC with clients living mostly in SE and Anacostia, currently live in a very diverse area and work and socialize with a diverse community.

But yeah, I'm a racist. You caught me out. I must be racist if my desire to see the majority of kids of all colors succeed in our schools might mean that a small percentage of kids of color get suspended or placed in alternative school settings. I'm a big bad racist for wanting that.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not sped it kids coming from violent homes. There are plenty of parents out there who beat their kids

It is more kids coming from super permissive homes where there is no discipline just screens whenever the student demands it, no structure, and the kid who is often smart and strong willed soon realizes he or she can do whatever they want and the parent won't intervene. So the parent walks on eggshells or gives in to all the kid's demands because they don't want to see the kid tantrum. So the kid comes to school and realizes no one can touch them or do anything to them. The teacher tells the parent the student is misbehaving and there are NO consequences at home. There are also no rewards that are effective because the student gets whatever they want at home.

Teacher here. This is more likely the case. I have a student who is nearly as tall as I am and she's 6 yrs old. The only way her mom can get her to school (according to her mom) is to let her walk with her (the student's) phone. When mom gets her to the front door, she walks inside with her until she lines up with her class and then her mom tries to quickly pull the phone away and hightail it out of there. Needless to say, it's like WW3 every morning. My colleague and I end up blocking the door with our bodies to prevent her from running out the door after her mom. We've had meetings about this (and her other awful behaviors) but the real problem is mom's inability to say no. This child has tantrums like a 2 yr old multiple times per day. They last for at least 15 minutes and the entire class comes to a halt because she is screaming the entire time. This child doesn't have special needs. Her mother just doesn't want to parent so all of us get to deal with that. There are 3-4 of these kids in every grade.

I just spent 7 weeks working in an out of school time program at the YMCA in a Title I schools community.

Hands down, the kids with diagnoses or who were SPED were LESS disruptive and problematic than the kids who simply are not being parented, period.

These are average to above average intellect kids who are running the show in our classrooms and other youth development programs because the new social justice paradigm (I am, by the way, uber liberal and was an antiracist before the term was in any kind of widespread use) is that you don't discipline these kids or kick them out of the program as your progressive accountability structure allows - you just keep abiding and trying to give them positive incentives to conform their behavior to norms.

And in the meantime the vast majority of kids who make good choices are getting bullied and traumatized by witnesses bullying and assaults both physical and verbal on a regular basis - on them, their peers and yes, on their adult instructors.

For some percentage of kids, seeing those things on a regular basis normalizes that kind of behavior and violence and it invites some kids to engage in behaviors they never otherwise would have tried.

It's a disaster, truly. I was planning to go into public school teaching through a program that requires a 2 year commitment to a Title I school district and I've decided - NO THANKS.

It would be different if there was any accountability structure left for kids who make bad choices, but there really isn't. The school district where I was going to teach is one among many nationwide that have been sued for having an in school and out of school suspension program and for using it as designed. While investigation by the federal OCV found there was no intent to racial bias in using the progressive accountability structure, the majority of kids who ended up being in and out of school suspended were BIPOC and so it was no longer okay to use it because apparently we are just going to abide the behavior and that's going to motivate the kids to change and conform to social norms.

Is anyone really surprised that violence is more and more normative in our society?

What really makes me sad is that this is just a recycling of the soft bigotry of low expectations. These social justice warriors in our schools and other youth development program leadership structures think they a striking a blow for antiracism, but to me it looks like they are enabling and encouraging kids into the juvenile justice system and eventually likely the adult justice system, just in a different fashion than the previous school to prison pipeline.

And yes, plenty of the disruptive kids are white, too. We are failing all these kids whose parents already did. We'll pay the price down the road as we always have done.

Let’s stop this. No same parent, white, black, Hispanic, Asian, or otherwise wants there to be no discipline and behavior reinforcement in school. That said, plenty of studies have shown that BIPOC kids have recieved greater punishment for the same or similar behaviors or offenses as white student. Is that true is all schools, no, but it is rampant enough to provide valid data. That is why there is a focus on suspension rates. Additionally, research has also proven that suspension in some cases is not the best solution to changing behavior and affecting how kids think about their actions long term which is why there is Restorative Justice. No one advocated for the pendulum to swing to no suspension and no discipline. And BIPOC people did not advocate for implementing RJ without the appropriate training and persons involved to help do it correctly.

So why not spend time focused on the real problem which is that the things that are needed to properly help kids and teachers can’t be done without proper staffing, resources, and funding. They also won’t be successful if we don’t work together to build a society meant to sustain families and communities and not one beholden to money and power over all else.

Throwing a 5yr old out of the classroom does solve the root cause problem, it just removes it from immediate view. The fact as a country/county we can’t direct a 5yr old to the best place for their needs is the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not sped it kids coming from violent homes. There are plenty of parents out there who beat their kids

It is more kids coming from super permissive homes where there is no discipline just screens whenever the student demands it, no structure, and the kid who is often smart and strong willed soon realizes he or she can do whatever they want and the parent won't intervene. So the parent walks on eggshells or gives in to all the kid's demands because they don't want to see the kid tantrum. So the kid comes to school and realizes no one can touch them or do anything to them. The teacher tells the parent the student is misbehaving and there are NO consequences at home. There are also no rewards that are effective because the student gets whatever they want at home.

Teacher here. This is more likely the case. I have a student who is nearly as tall as I am and she's 6 yrs old. The only way her mom can get her to school (according to her mom) is to let her walk with her (the student's) phone. When mom gets her to the front door, she walks inside with her until she lines up with her class and then her mom tries to quickly pull the phone away and hightail it out of there. Needless to say, it's like WW3 every morning. My colleague and I end up blocking the door with our bodies to prevent her from running out the door after her mom. We've had meetings about this (and her other awful behaviors) but the real problem is mom's inability to say no. This child has tantrums like a 2 yr old multiple times per day. They last for at least 15 minutes and the entire class comes to a halt because she is screaming the entire time. This child doesn't have special needs. Her mother just doesn't want to parent so all of us get to deal with that. There are 3-4 of these kids in every grade.

I just spent 7 weeks working in an out of school time program at the YMCA in a Title I schools community.

Hands down, the kids with diagnoses or who were SPED were LESS disruptive and problematic than the kids who simply are not being parented, period.

These are average to above average intellect kids who are running the show in our classrooms and other youth development programs because the new social justice paradigm (I am, by the way, uber liberal and was an antiracist before the term was in any kind of widespread use) is that you don't discipline these kids or kick them out of the program as your progressive accountability structure allows - you just keep abiding and trying to give them positive incentives to conform their behavior to norms.

And in the meantime the vast majority of kids who make good choices are getting bullied and traumatized by witnesses bullying and assaults both physical and verbal on a regular basis - on them, their peers and yes, on their adult instructors.

For some percentage of kids, seeing those things on a regular basis normalizes that kind of behavior and violence and it invites some kids to engage in behaviors they never otherwise would have tried.

It's a disaster, truly. I was planning to go into public school teaching through a program that requires a 2 year commitment to a Title I school district and I've decided - NO THANKS.

It would be different if there was any accountability structure left for kids who make bad choices, but there really isn't. The school district where I was going to teach is one among many nationwide that have been sued for having an in school and out of school suspension program and for using it as designed. While investigation by the federal OCV found there was no intent to racial bias in using the progressive accountability structure, the majority of kids who ended up being in and out of school suspended were BIPOC and so it was no longer okay to use it because apparently we are just going to abide the behavior and that's going to motivate the kids to change and conform to social norms.

Is anyone really surprised that violence is more and more normative in our society?

What really makes me sad is that this is just a recycling of the soft bigotry of low expectations. These social justice warriors in our schools and other youth development program leadership structures think they a striking a blow for antiracism, but to me it looks like they are enabling and encouraging kids into the juvenile justice system and eventually likely the adult justice system, just in a different fashion than the previous school to prison pipeline.

And yes, plenty of the disruptive kids are white, too. We are failing all these kids whose parents already did. We'll pay the price down the road as we always have done.

You know it's going to be good anytime someone starts a rant assuring others that they're not a racist. And this one did not disappoint.

Let me guess, you have black friends, too?

I have spent my entire career working in BIPOC communities, and yes, many if not most of my friends are BIPOC.

It's so easy to jump to calling people racist if they want any accountability for the poor behavior choices of kids or adults and that happens to include in Title I communities a fair number of BIPOC kids.

Again, I've been uber liberal my whole life. My friends used to call me a thug hugger, and it was many of my BIPOC friends who most deeply criticized my idealism and progressive ideals.

Just for reference, I've spent my career as an educator, domestic violence advocate, CASA, legal aid attorney, public defender, prosecutor, solo law practice attorney who took poor clients and charged on a sliding scale like a nonprofit firm (I was definitely nonprofit, lol), and most recently working with a very mixed race population of elder and disabled healthcare clients, many on hospice status.

I lived and worked on a reservation out West, I lived and worked on the AZ/Mexico border, attended law school and did criminal clinic in DC with clients living mostly in SE and Anacostia, currently live in a very diverse area and work and socialize with a diverse community.

But yeah, I'm a racist. You caught me out. I must be racist if my desire to see the majority of kids of all colors succeed in our schools might mean that a small percentage of kids of color get suspended or placed in alternative school settings. I'm a big bad racist for wanting that.

I’m black and I’m aligned with everything you said. The people who justify the absence of structure and consequences for black and brown kids are the real racists. Discipline is a vital and essential part of raising a healthy, productive child. Their low expectations are racist. I refuse to believe that any bad behavior black and brown kids might exhibit must be tolerated in the name of antiracism. This is warped thinking at best and intentional poisonous programming at worst.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not sped it kids coming from violent homes. There are plenty of parents out there who beat their kids

It is more kids coming from super permissive homes where there is no discipline just screens whenever the student demands it, no structure, and the kid who is often smart and strong willed soon realizes he or she can do whatever they want and the parent won't intervene. So the parent walks on eggshells or gives in to all the kid's demands because they don't want to see the kid tantrum. So the kid comes to school and realizes no one can touch them or do anything to them. The teacher tells the parent the student is misbehaving and there are NO consequences at home. There are also no rewards that are effective because the student gets whatever they want at home.

Teacher here. This is more likely the case. I have a student who is nearly as tall as I am and she's 6 yrs old. The only way her mom can get her to school (according to her mom) is to let her walk with her (the student's) phone. When mom gets her to the front door, she walks inside with her until she lines up with her class and then her mom tries to quickly pull the phone away and hightail it out of there. Needless to say, it's like WW3 every morning. My colleague and I end up blocking the door with our bodies to prevent her from running out the door after her mom. We've had meetings about this (and her other awful behaviors) but the real problem is mom's inability to say no. This child has tantrums like a 2 yr old multiple times per day. They last for at least 15 minutes and the entire class comes to a halt because she is screaming the entire time. This child doesn't have special needs. Her mother just doesn't want to parent so all of us get to deal with that. There are 3-4 of these kids in every grade.

I just spent 7 weeks working in an out of school time program at the YMCA in a Title I schools community.

Hands down, the kids with diagnoses or who were SPED were LESS disruptive and problematic than the kids who simply are not being parented, period.

These are average to above average intellect kids who are running the show in our classrooms and other youth development programs because the new social justice paradigm (I am, by the way, uber liberal and was an antiracist before the term was in any kind of widespread use) is that you don't discipline these kids or kick them out of the program as your progressive accountability structure allows - you just keep abiding and trying to give them positive incentives to conform their behavior to norms.

And in the meantime the vast majority of kids who make good choices are getting bullied and traumatized by witnesses bullying and assaults both physical and verbal on a regular basis - on them, their peers and yes, on their adult instructors.

For some percentage of kids, seeing those things on a regular basis normalizes that kind of behavior and violence and it invites some kids to engage in behaviors they never otherwise would have tried.

It's a disaster, truly. I was planning to go into public school teaching through a program that requires a 2 year commitment to a Title I school district and I've decided - NO THANKS.

It would be different if there was any accountability structure left for kids who make bad choices, but there really isn't. The school district where I was going to teach is one among many nationwide that have been sued for having an in school and out of school suspension program and for using it as designed. While investigation by the federal OCV found there was no intent to racial bias in using the progressive accountability structure, the majority of kids who ended up being in and out of school suspended were BIPOC and so it was no longer okay to use it because apparently we are just going to abide the behavior and that's going to motivate the kids to change and conform to social norms.

Is anyone really surprised that violence is more and more normative in our society?

What really makes me sad is that this is just a recycling of the soft bigotry of low expectations. These social justice warriors in our schools and other youth development program leadership structures think they a striking a blow for antiracism, but to me it looks like they are enabling and encouraging kids into the juvenile justice system and eventually likely the adult justice system, just in a different fashion than the previous school to prison pipeline.

And yes, plenty of the disruptive kids are white, too. We are failing all these kids whose parents already did. We'll pay the price down the road as we always have done.

Let’s stop this. No same parent, white, black, Hispanic, Asian, or otherwise wants there to be no discipline and behavior reinforcement in school. That said, plenty of studies have shown that BIPOC kids have recieved greater punishment for the same or similar behaviors or offenses as white student. Is that true is all schools, no, but it is rampant enough to provide valid data. That is why there is a focus on suspension rates. Additionally, research has also proven that suspension in some cases is not the best solution to changing behavior and affecting how kids think about their actions long term which is why there is Restorative Justice. No one advocated for the pendulum to swing to no suspension and no discipline. And BIPOC people did not advocate for implementing RJ without the appropriate training and persons involved to help do it correctly.

So why not spend time focused on the real problem which is that the things that are needed to properly help kids and teachers can’t be done without proper staffing, resources, and funding. They also won’t be successful if we don’t work together to build a society meant to sustain families and communities and not one beholden to money and power over all else.

Throwing a 5yr old out of the classroom does solve the root cause problem, it just removes it from immediate view. The fact as a country/county we can’t direct a 5yr old to the best place for their needs is the problem.

I see your points.

But what you're concluding is that we abide disruptive and violent behaviors until we have solved the underfunding of public schools and all the social ills which are allegedly to blame for some parents simply refusing to parent - parents of ALL colors, by the way.

So since those problems have not been solved in centuries, we are basically choosing to let anarchy be the status quo in public schools and other youth programs going forward.

And we're wondering why there is a desperate shortage of educators at all levels?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not sped it kids coming from violent homes. There are plenty of parents out there who beat their kids

It is more kids coming from super permissive homes where there is no discipline just screens whenever the student demands it, no structure, and the kid who is often smart and strong willed soon realizes he or she can do whatever they want and the parent won't intervene. So the parent walks on eggshells or gives in to all the kid's demands because they don't want to see the kid tantrum. So the kid comes to school and realizes no one can touch them or do anything to them. The teacher tells the parent the student is misbehaving and there are NO consequences at home. There are also no rewards that are effective because the student gets whatever they want at home.

Teacher here. This is more likely the case. I have a student who is nearly as tall as I am and she's 6 yrs old. The only way her mom can get her to school (according to her mom) is to let her walk with her (the student's) phone. When mom gets her to the front door, she walks inside with her until she lines up with her class and then her mom tries to quickly pull the phone away and hightail it out of there. Needless to say, it's like WW3 every morning. My colleague and I end up blocking the door with our bodies to prevent her from running out the door after her mom. We've had meetings about this (and her other awful behaviors) but the real problem is mom's inability to say no. This child has tantrums like a 2 yr old multiple times per day. They last for at least 15 minutes and the entire class comes to a halt because she is screaming the entire time. This child doesn't have special needs. Her mother just doesn't want to parent so all of us get to deal with that. There are 3-4 of these kids in every grade.

I just spent 7 weeks working in an out of school time program at the YMCA in a Title I schools community.

Hands down, the kids with diagnoses or who were SPED were LESS disruptive and problematic than the kids who simply are not being parented, period.

These are average to above average intellect kids who are running the show in our classrooms and other youth development programs because the new social justice paradigm (I am, by the way, uber liberal and was an antiracist before the term was in any kind of widespread use) is that you don't discipline these kids or kick them out of the program as your progressive accountability structure allows - you just keep abiding and trying to give them positive incentives to conform their behavior to norms.

And in the meantime the vast majority of kids who make good choices are getting bullied and traumatized by witnesses bullying and assaults both physical and verbal on a regular basis - on them, their peers and yes, on their adult instructors.

For some percentage of kids, seeing those things on a regular basis normalizes that kind of behavior and violence and it invites some kids to engage in behaviors they never otherwise would have tried.

It's a disaster, truly. I was planning to go into public school teaching through a program that requires a 2 year commitment to a Title I school district and I've decided - NO THANKS.

It would be different if there was any accountability structure left for kids who make bad choices, but there really isn't. The school district where I was going to teach is one among many nationwide that have been sued for having an in school and out of school suspension program and for using it as designed. While investigation by the federal OCV found there was no intent to racial bias in using the progressive accountability structure, the majority of kids who ended up being in and out of school suspended were BIPOC and so it was no longer okay to use it because apparently we are just going to abide the behavior and that's going to motivate the kids to change and conform to social norms.

Is anyone really surprised that violence is more and more normative in our society?

What really makes me sad is that this is just a recycling of the soft bigotry of low expectations. These social justice warriors in our schools and other youth development program leadership structures think they a striking a blow for antiracism, but to me it looks like they are enabling and encouraging kids into the juvenile justice system and eventually likely the adult justice system, just in a different fashion than the previous school to prison pipeline.

And yes, plenty of the disruptive kids are white, too. We are failing all these kids whose parents already did. We'll pay the price down the road as we always have done.

Let’s stop this. No same parent, white, black, Hispanic, Asian, or otherwise wants there to be no discipline and behavior reinforcement in school. That said, plenty of studies have shown that BIPOC kids have recieved greater punishment for the same or similar behaviors or offenses as white student. Is that true is all schools, no, but it is rampant enough to provide valid data. That is why there is a focus on suspension rates. Additionally, research has also proven that suspension in some cases is not the best solution to changing behavior and affecting how kids think about their actions long term which is why there is Restorative Justice. No one advocated for the pendulum to swing to no suspension and no discipline. And BIPOC people did not advocate for implementing RJ without the appropriate training and persons involved to help do it correctly.

So why not spend time focused on the real problem which is that the things that are needed to properly help kids and teachers can’t be done without proper staffing, resources, and funding. They also won’t be successful if we don’t work together to build a society meant to sustain families and communities and not one beholden to money and power over all else.

Throwing a 5yr old out of the classroom does solve the root cause problem, it just removes it from immediate view. The fact as a country/county we can’t direct a 5yr old to the best place for their needs is the problem.

I see your points.

But what you're concluding is that we abide disruptive and violent behaviors until we have solved the underfunding of public schools and all the social ills which are allegedly to blame for some parents simply refusing to parent - parents of ALL colors, by the way.

So since those problems have not been solved in centuries, we are basically choosing to let anarchy be the status quo in public schools and other youth programs going forward.

And we're wondering why there is a desperate shortage of educators at all levels?

I’m not concluding that we descend into anarchy or abide by disruptive behavior. In fact I stated that no one wants that. What I’m advocating is that we address the root cause of problems instead of band-aides. Removing a 5yr old from class solves that classes problem. Yay for them. But it becomes another class’ problem because this is a 5yr old who is still required to have a class. Until we do right by this 5yr old we’re just playing hot potatoe with the problem. And that will continue forever with this 5yr old and others until we as adults start saying, you know what, it’s beyond time that we have a true honest local, state, and national
conversation and investment in what it means to be a society. L

And if we are stuck here arguing and complaining about a violent 5yr old instead of using this situation to propel folks into positive action, then what good comes out of this situation? There are policies and procedures in place currently to deal with the violent 5yr. They may not be the best policies, but they certainly won’t get better if we don’t address the reason why we can’t have better policy and procedures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not sped it kids coming from violent homes. There are plenty of parents out there who beat their kids

It is more kids coming from super permissive homes where there is no discipline just screens whenever the student demands it, no structure, and the kid who is often smart and strong willed soon realizes he or she can do whatever they want and the parent won't intervene. So the parent walks on eggshells or gives in to all the kid's demands because they don't want to see the kid tantrum. So the kid comes to school and realizes no one can touch them or do anything to them. The teacher tells the parent the student is misbehaving and there are NO consequences at home. There are also no rewards that are effective because the student gets whatever they want at home.

Teacher here. This is more likely the case. I have a student who is nearly as tall as I am and she's 6 yrs old. The only way her mom can get her to school (according to her mom) is to let her walk with her (the student's) phone. When mom gets her to the front door, she walks inside with her until she lines up with her class and then her mom tries to quickly pull the phone away and hightail it out of there. Needless to say, it's like WW3 every morning. My colleague and I end up blocking the door with our bodies to prevent her from running out the door after her mom. We've had meetings about this (and her other awful behaviors) but the real problem is mom's inability to say no. This child has tantrums like a 2 yr old multiple times per day. They last for at least 15 minutes and the entire class comes to a halt because she is screaming the entire time. This child doesn't have special needs. Her mother just doesn't want to parent so all of us get to deal with that. There are 3-4 of these kids in every grade.

I just spent 7 weeks working in an out of school time program at the YMCA in a Title I schools community.

Hands down, the kids with diagnoses or who were SPED were LESS disruptive and problematic than the kids who simply are not being parented, period.

These are average to above average intellect kids who are running the show in our classrooms and other youth development programs because the new social justice paradigm (I am, by the way, uber liberal and was an antiracist before the term was in any kind of widespread use) is that you don't discipline these kids or kick them out of the program as your progressive accountability structure allows - you just keep abiding and trying to give them positive incentives to conform their behavior to norms.

And in the meantime the vast majority of kids who make good choices are getting bullied and traumatized by witnesses bullying and assaults both physical and verbal on a regular basis - on them, their peers and yes, on their adult instructors.

For some percentage of kids, seeing those things on a regular basis normalizes that kind of behavior and violence and it invites some kids to engage in behaviors they never otherwise would have tried.

It's a disaster, truly. I was planning to go into public school teaching through a program that requires a 2 year commitment to a Title I school district and I've decided - NO THANKS.

It would be different if there was any accountability structure left for kids who make bad choices, but there really isn't. The school district where I was going to teach is one among many nationwide that have been sued for having an in school and out of school suspension program and for using it as designed. While investigation by the federal OCV found there was no intent to racial bias in using the progressive accountability structure, the majority of kids who ended up being in and out of school suspended were BIPOC and so it was no longer okay to use it because apparently we are just going to abide the behavior and that's going to motivate the kids to change and conform to social norms.

Is anyone really surprised that violence is more and more normative in our society?

What really makes me sad is that this is just a recycling of the soft bigotry of low expectations. These social justice warriors in our schools and other youth development program leadership structures think they a striking a blow for antiracism, but to me it looks like they are enabling and encouraging kids into the juvenile justice system and eventually likely the adult justice system, just in a different fashion than the previous school to prison pipeline.

And yes, plenty of the disruptive kids are white, too. We are failing all these kids whose parents already did. We'll pay the price down the road as we always have done.

Let’s stop this. No same parent, white, black, Hispanic, Asian, or otherwise wants there to be no discipline and behavior reinforcement in school. That said, plenty of studies have shown that BIPOC kids have recieved greater punishment for the same or similar behaviors or offenses as white student. Is that true is all schools, no, but it is rampant enough to provide valid data. That is why there is a focus on suspension rates. Additionally, research has also proven that suspension in some cases is not the best solution to changing behavior and affecting how kids think about their actions long term which is why there is Restorative Justice. No one advocated for the pendulum to swing to no suspension and no discipline. And BIPOC people did not advocate for implementing RJ without the appropriate training and persons involved to help do it correctly.

So why not spend time focused on the real problem which is that the things that are needed to properly help kids and teachers can’t be done without proper staffing, resources, and funding. They also won’t be successful if we don’t work together to build a society meant to sustain families and communities and not one beholden to money and power over all else.

Throwing a 5yr old out of the classroom does solve the root cause problem, it just removes it from immediate view. The fact as a country/county we can’t direct a 5yr old to the best place for their needs is the problem.

I see your points.

But what you're concluding is that we abide disruptive and violent behaviors until we have solved the underfunding of public schools and all the social ills which are allegedly to blame for some parents simply refusing to parent - parents of ALL colors, by the way.

So since those problems have not been solved in centuries, we are basically choosing to let anarchy be the status quo in public schools and other youth programs going forward.

And we're wondering why there is a desperate shortage of educators at all levels?

I’m not concluding that we descend into anarchy or abide by disruptive behavior. In fact I stated that no one wants that. What I’m advocating is that we address the root cause of problems instead of band-aides. Removing a 5yr old from class solves that classes problem. Yay for them. But it becomes another class’ problem because this is a 5yr old who is still required to have a class. Until we do right by this 5yr old we’re just playing hot potatoe with the problem. And that will continue forever with this 5yr old and others until we as adults start saying, you know what, it’s beyond time that we have a true honest local, state, and national
conversation and investment in what it means to be a society. L

And if we are stuck here arguing and complaining about a violent 5yr old instead of using this situation to propel folks into positive action, then what good comes out of this situation? There are policies and procedures in place currently to deal with the violent 5yr. They may not be the best policies, but they certainly won’t get better if we don’t address the reason why we can’t have better policy and procedures.

The point that current educators are trying to make in this thread is that no, there are not policies and procedures currently in place and being used to deal with violent 5 year olds and violent students of varying ages.

Since the 'racial reckoning' of 2020, the response of the overwhelming majority of school administrators/BOEs is to drop the ball. There aren't sufficient resources to engage in truly productive restorative justice in most of these schools (the vast majority), so there just isn't accountability. Bullying and violence are at all time highs which might account for some of the mental health crisis among our kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not sped it kids coming from violent homes. There are plenty of parents out there who beat their kids

It is more kids coming from super permissive homes where there is no discipline just screens whenever the student demands it, no structure, and the kid who is often smart and strong willed soon realizes he or she can do whatever they want and the parent won't intervene. So the parent walks on eggshells or gives in to all the kid's demands because they don't want to see the kid tantrum. So the kid comes to school and realizes no one can touch them or do anything to them. The teacher tells the parent the student is misbehaving and there are NO consequences at home. There are also no rewards that are effective because the student gets whatever they want at home.

Teacher here. This is more likely the case. I have a student who is nearly as tall as I am and she's 6 yrs old. The only way her mom can get her to school (according to her mom) is to let her walk with her (the student's) phone. When mom gets her to the front door, she walks inside with her until she lines up with her class and then her mom tries to quickly pull the phone away and hightail it out of there. Needless to say, it's like WW3 every morning. My colleague and I end up blocking the door with our bodies to prevent her from running out the door after her mom. We've had meetings about this (and her other awful behaviors) but the real problem is mom's inability to say no. This child has tantrums like a 2 yr old multiple times per day. They last for at least 15 minutes and the entire class comes to a halt because she is screaming the entire time. This child doesn't have special needs. Her mother just doesn't want to parent so all of us get to deal with that. There are 3-4 of these kids in every grade.

I just spent 7 weeks working in an out of school time program at the YMCA in a Title I schools community.

Hands down, the kids with diagnoses or who were SPED were LESS disruptive and problematic than the kids who simply are not being parented, period.

These are average to above average intellect kids who are running the show in our classrooms and other youth development programs because the new social justice paradigm (I am, by the way, uber liberal and was an antiracist before the term was in any kind of widespread use) is that you don't discipline these kids or kick them out of the program as your progressive accountability structure allows - you just keep abiding and trying to give them positive incentives to conform their behavior to norms.

And in the meantime the vast majority of kids who make good choices are getting bullied and traumatized by witnesses bullying and assaults both physical and verbal on a regular basis - on them, their peers and yes, on their adult instructors.

For some percentage of kids, seeing those things on a regular basis normalizes that kind of behavior and violence and it invites some kids to engage in behaviors they never otherwise would have tried.

It's a disaster, truly. I was planning to go into public school teaching through a program that requires a 2 year commitment to a Title I school district and I've decided - NO THANKS.

It would be different if there was any accountability structure left for kids who make bad choices, but there really isn't. The school district where I was going to teach is one among many nationwide that have been sued for having an in school and out of school suspension program and for using it as designed. While investigation by the federal OCV found there was no intent to racial bias in using the progressive accountability structure, the majority of kids who ended up being in and out of school suspended were BIPOC and so it was no longer okay to use it because apparently we are just going to abide the behavior and that's going to motivate the kids to change and conform to social norms.

Is anyone really surprised that violence is more and more normative in our society?

What really makes me sad is that this is just a recycling of the soft bigotry of low expectations. These social justice warriors in our schools and other youth development program leadership structures think they a striking a blow for antiracism, but to me it looks like they are enabling and encouraging kids into the juvenile justice system and eventually likely the adult justice system, just in a different fashion than the previous school to prison pipeline.

And yes, plenty of the disruptive kids are white, too. We are failing all these kids whose parents already did. We'll pay the price down the road as we always have done.

You know it's going to be good anytime someone starts a rant assuring others that they're not a racist. And this one did not disappoint.

Let me guess, you have black friends, too?

I have spent my entire career working in BIPOC communities, and yes, many if not most of my friends are BIPOC.

It's so easy to jump to calling people racist if they want any accountability for the poor behavior choices of kids or adults and that happens to include in Title I communities a fair number of BIPOC kids.

Again, I've been uber liberal my whole life. My friends used to call me a thug hugger, and it was many of my BIPOC friends who most deeply criticized my idealism and progressive ideals.

Just for reference, I've spent my career as an educator, domestic violence advocate, CASA, legal aid attorney, public defender, prosecutor, solo law practice attorney who took poor clients and charged on a sliding scale like a nonprofit firm (I was definitely nonprofit, lol), and most recently working with a very mixed race population of elder and disabled healthcare clients, many on hospice status.

I lived and worked on a reservation out West, I lived and worked on the AZ/Mexico border, attended law school and did criminal clinic in DC with clients living mostly in SE and Anacostia, currently live in a very diverse area and work and socialize with a diverse community.

But yeah, I'm a racist. You caught me out. I must be racist if my desire to see the majority of kids of all colors succeed in our schools might mean that a small percentage of kids of color get suspended or placed in alternative school settings. I'm a big bad racist for wanting that.

Another kind reminder to ignore talking head trolls

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not sped it kids coming from violent homes. There are plenty of parents out there who beat their kids

It is more kids coming from super permissive homes where there is no discipline just screens whenever the student demands it, no structure, and the kid who is often smart and strong willed soon realizes he or she can do whatever they want and the parent won't intervene. So the parent walks on eggshells or gives in to all the kid's demands because they don't want to see the kid tantrum. So the kid comes to school and realizes no one can touch them or do anything to them. The teacher tells the parent the student is misbehaving and there are NO consequences at home. There are also no rewards that are effective because the student gets whatever they want at home.

Teacher here. This is more likely the case. I have a student who is nearly as tall as I am and she's 6 yrs old. The only way her mom can get her to school (according to her mom) is to let her walk with her (the student's) phone. When mom gets her to the front door, she walks inside with her until she lines up with her class and then her mom tries to quickly pull the phone away and hightail it out of there. Needless to say, it's like WW3 every morning. My colleague and I end up blocking the door with our bodies to prevent her from running out the door after her mom. We've had meetings about this (and her other awful behaviors) but the real problem is mom's inability to say no. This child has tantrums like a 2 yr old multiple times per day. They last for at least 15 minutes and the entire class comes to a halt because she is screaming the entire time. This child doesn't have special needs. Her mother just doesn't want to parent so all of us get to deal with that. There are 3-4 of these kids in every grade.

I just spent 7 weeks working in an out of school time program at the YMCA in a Title I schools community.

Hands down, the kids with diagnoses or who were SPED were LESS disruptive and problematic than the kids who simply are not being parented, period.

These are average to above average intellect kids who are running the show in our classrooms and other youth development programs because the new social justice paradigm (I am, by the way, uber liberal and was an antiracist before the term was in any kind of widespread use) is that you don't discipline these kids or kick them out of the program as your progressive accountability structure allows - you just keep abiding and trying to give them positive incentives to conform their behavior to norms.

And in the meantime the vast majority of kids who make good choices are getting bullied and traumatized by witnesses bullying and assaults both physical and verbal on a regular basis - on them, their peers and yes, on their adult instructors.

For some percentage of kids, seeing those things on a regular basis normalizes that kind of behavior and violence and it invites some kids to engage in behaviors they never otherwise would have tried.

It's a disaster, truly. I was planning to go into public school teaching through a program that requires a 2 year commitment to a Title I school district and I've decided - NO THANKS.

It would be different if there was any accountability structure left for kids who make bad choices, but there really isn't. The school district where I was going to teach is one among many nationwide that have been sued for having an in school and out of school suspension program and for using it as designed. While investigation by the federal OCV found there was no intent to racial bias in using the progressive accountability structure, the majority of kids who ended up being in and out of school suspended were BIPOC and so it was no longer okay to use it because apparently we are just going to abide the behavior and that's going to motivate the kids to change and conform to social norms.

Is anyone really surprised that violence is more and more normative in our society?

What really makes me sad is that this is just a recycling of the soft bigotry of low expectations. These social justice warriors in our schools and other youth development program leadership structures think they a striking a blow for antiracism, but to me it looks like they are enabling and encouraging kids into the juvenile justice system and eventually likely the adult justice system, just in a different fashion than the previous school to prison pipeline.

And yes, plenty of the disruptive kids are white, too. We are failing all these kids whose parents already did. We'll pay the price down the road as we always have done.

You know it's going to be good anytime someone starts a rant assuring others that they're not a racist. And this one did not disappoint.

Let me guess, you have black friends, too?

I have spent my entire career working in BIPOC communities, and yes, many if not most of my friends are BIPOC.

It's so easy to jump to calling people racist if they want any accountability for the poor behavior choices of kids or adults and that happens to include in Title I communities a fair number of BIPOC kids.

Again, I've been uber liberal my whole life. My friends used to call me a thug hugger, and it was many of my BIPOC friends who most deeply criticized my idealism and progressive ideals.

Just for reference, I've spent my career as an educator, domestic violence advocate, CASA, legal aid attorney, public defender, prosecutor, solo law practice attorney who took poor clients and charged on a sliding scale like a nonprofit firm (I was definitely nonprofit, lol), and most recently working with a very mixed race population of elder and disabled healthcare clients, many on hospice status.

I lived and worked on a reservation out West, I lived and worked on the AZ/Mexico border, attended law school and did criminal clinic in DC with clients living mostly in SE and Anacostia, currently live in a very diverse area and work and socialize with a diverse community.

But yeah, I'm a racist. You caught me out. I must be racist if my desire to see the majority of kids of all colors succeed in our schools might mean that a small percentage of kids of color get suspended or placed in alternative school settings. I'm a big bad racist for wanting that.

I’m black and I’m aligned with everything you said. The people who justify the absence of structure and consequences for black and brown kids are the real racists. Discipline is a vital and essential part of raising a healthy, productive child. Their low expectations are racist. I refuse to believe that any bad behavior black and brown kids might exhibit must be tolerated in the name of antiracism. This is warped thinking at best and intentional poisonous programming at worst.

DP. I think it's horrible that this is the approach taken by schools in the name of anti racism. There is clear evidence that black and brown kids are disciplined differently than white kids though. The problem is schools don't want/know how to address that so they've decided to just stop disciplining kids at all which ends up being even worse for BIPOC kids.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's not sped it kids coming from violent homes. There are plenty of parents out there who beat their kids

It is more kids coming from super permissive homes where there is no discipline just screens whenever the student demands it, no structure, and the kid who is often smart and strong willed soon realizes he or she can do whatever they want and the parent won't intervene. So the parent walks on eggshells or gives in to all the kid's demands because they don't want to see the kid tantrum. So the kid comes to school and realizes no one can touch them or do anything to them. The teacher tells the parent the student is misbehaving and there are NO consequences at home. There are also no rewards that are effective because the student gets whatever they want at home.

Teacher here. This is more likely the case. I have a student who is nearly as tall as I am and she's 6 yrs old. The only way her mom can get her to school (according to her mom) is to let her walk with her (the student's) phone. When mom gets her to the front door, she walks inside with her until she lines up with her class and then her mom tries to quickly pull the phone away and hightail it out of there. Needless to say, it's like WW3 every morning. My colleague and I end up blocking the door with our bodies to prevent her from running out the door after her mom. We've had meetings about this (and her other awful behaviors) but the real problem is mom's inability to say no. This child has tantrums like a 2 yr old multiple times per day. They last for at least 15 minutes and the entire class comes to a halt because she is screaming the entire time. This child doesn't have special needs. Her mother just doesn't want to parent so all of us get to deal with that. There are 3-4 of these kids in every grade.

I just spent 7 weeks working in an out of school time program at the YMCA in a Title I schools community.

Hands down, the kids with diagnoses or who were SPED were LESS disruptive and problematic than the kids who simply are not being parented, period.

These are average to above average intellect kids who are running the show in our classrooms and other youth development programs because the new social justice paradigm (I am, by the way, uber liberal and was an antiracist before the term was in any kind of widespread use) is that you don't discipline these kids or kick them out of the program as your progressive accountability structure allows - you just keep abiding and trying to give them positive incentives to conform their behavior to norms.

And in the meantime the vast majority of kids who make good choices are getting bullied and traumatized by witnesses bullying and assaults both physical and verbal on a regular basis - on them, their peers and yes, on their adult instructors.

For some percentage of kids, seeing those things on a regular basis normalizes that kind of behavior and violence and it invites some kids to engage in behaviors they never otherwise would have tried.

It's a disaster, truly. I was planning to go into public school teaching through a program that requires a 2 year commitment to a Title I school district and I've decided - NO THANKS.

It would be different if there was any accountability structure left for kids who make bad choices, but there really isn't. The school district where I was going to teach is one among many nationwide that have been sued for having an in school and out of school suspension program and for using it as designed. While investigation by the federal OCV found there was no intent to racial bias in using the progressive accountability structure, the majority of kids who ended up being in and out of school suspended were BIPOC and so it was no longer okay to use it because apparently we are just going to abide the behavior and that's going to motivate the kids to change and conform to social norms.

Is anyone really surprised that violence is more and more normative in our society?

What really makes me sad is that this is just a recycling of the soft bigotry of low expectations. These social justice warriors in our schools and other youth development program leadership structures think they a striking a blow for antiracism, but to me it looks like they are enabling and encouraging kids into the juvenile justice system and eventually likely the adult justice system, just in a different fashion than the previous school to prison pipeline.

And yes, plenty of the disruptive kids are white, too. We are failing all these kids whose parents already did. We'll pay the price down the road as we always have done.

You know it's going to be good anytime someone starts a rant assuring others that they're not a racist. And this one did not disappoint.

Let me guess, you have black friends, too?

I have spent my entire career working in BIPOC communities, and yes, many if not most of my friends are BIPOC.

It's so easy to jump to calling people racist if they want any accountability for the poor behavior choices of kids or adults and that happens to include in Title I communities a fair number of BIPOC kids.

Again, I've been uber liberal my whole life. My friends used to call me a thug hugger, and it was many of my BIPOC friends who most deeply criticized my idealism and progressive ideals.

Just for reference, I've spent my career as an educator, domestic violence advocate, CASA, legal aid attorney, public defender, prosecutor, solo law practice attorney who took poor clients and charged on a sliding scale like a nonprofit firm (I was definitely nonprofit, lol), and most recently working with a very mixed race population of elder and disabled healthcare clients, many on hospice status.

I lived and worked on a reservation out West, I lived and worked on the AZ/Mexico border, attended law school and did criminal clinic in DC with clients living mostly in SE and Anacostia, currently live in a very diverse area and work and socialize with a diverse community.

But yeah, I'm a racist. You caught me out. I must be racist if my desire to see the majority of kids of all colors succeed in our schools might mean that a small percentage of kids of color get suspended or placed in alternative school settings. I'm a big bad racist for wanting that.

I’m black and I’m aligned with everything you said. The people who justify the absence of structure and consequences for black and brown kids are the real racists. Discipline is a vital and essential part of raising a healthy, productive child. Their low expectations are racist. I refuse to believe that any bad behavior black and brown kids might exhibit must be tolerated in the name of antiracism. This is warped thinking at best and intentional poisonous programming at worst.

DP. I think it's horrible that this is the approach taken by schools in the name of anti racism. There is clear evidence that black and brown kids are disciplined differently than white kids though. The problem is schools don't want/know how to address that so they've decided to just stop disciplining kids at all which ends up being even worse for BIPOC kids.

+100!!