Wisconsin Ave Development Project

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:True, but I still don't know who is going to live in all these condos. The planners suggest it will be families but that's not the case.

Well, families did move into the new condos and apartments in Bethesda. There are many more school bus stops than there used to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Changing zoning laws will make zero difference to housing prices.

There's 300,000 housing units in DC. There's five million people in the suburbs.

Even if you could increase the housing stock by 10 percent (hugely ambitious), it would all be absorbed by people in the burbs looking for shorter commutes.

I guess all of you who think "zoning laws" is the answer to all our problems could go buy their old place in Manassas?

We can all see how affordable Navy Yard is now that it is nothing but condos and apartments.

Why do we assume everyone in the suburbs works in dc and wants to live here?

“We” don’t. But if a teensy, tiny percentage of them decide they’d rather live in the city, say 2 percent, that’s 100,000 new people.

A big "if" in my opinion since I mostly see people moving out of the city right now. I could live anywhere now, but I was lucky to buy here decades ago, so I'll stay. My kids, who loved growing up here, see no need to stay. Off to the suburbs with better police protection and better schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess my fear is that NWDC will become just very wealthy people (lawyers) living in SFHs, singles living for a few years in expensive condos, and previously homeless people filling up the condos with the tax $$ of the rich. We need middle or upper middle class families -- those with an income of $300k or so -- to live here too.

"previously homeless" are not "affordable housing" recipients. You have a huge understanding gap here. Please get up to speed on this before embarrasing yourself further.

No, pp, the poster you just slapped had it right. What makes you think you know best?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But FH will be developed for better or worse. Would you prefer townhomes or high rises? I say this as someone who generally opposes development, but I don't see the point of lots of one bedroom condos that will ultimately be filled with voucher holders.

Voucher holders? That isn't who "affordable housing" is designed for. Are you really opposed to DCPS teachers or Second District MPD or Tenleytown Fire House first responders living in the neighborhood? Because they aren't voucher holders but they are the ones who would be eligible for this kind of housing.

Ha, ha, ha. That’s what they claimed in downtown Bethesda but instead we get people like the single mom bus driver whose son stomped on some kids’ head outside of BCC a few months back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live off Mass Ave so I am a bit further away. I am thrilled at this development. Getting into downtown Bethesda is trickier than FH/TT.

Excited to see those areas become better than they were in the late 90s/early 2000s.

Between this and the new Westbard development, I am liking it!

Me too - I live off Mass and used to go to FH all the time. Now I mostly just go for Rodman's.

Did you hear that Tatte is coming to Westbard! I can't wait!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Changing zoning laws will make zero difference to housing prices.

There's 300,000 housing units in DC. There's five million people in the suburbs.

Even if you could increase the housing stock by 10 percent (hugely ambitious), it would all be absorbed by people in the burbs looking for shorter commutes.

I guess all of you who think "zoning laws" is the answer to all our problems could go buy their old place in Manassas?

We can all see how affordable Navy Yard is now that it is nothing but condos and apartments.

Why do we assume everyone in the suburbs works in dc and wants to live here?

“We” don’t. But if a teensy, tiny percentage of them decide they’d rather live in the city, say 2 percent, that’s 100,000 new people.

A big "if" in my opinion since I mostly see people moving out of the city right now. I could live anywhere now, but I was lucky to buy here decades ago, so I'll stay. My kids, who loved growing up here, see no need to stay. Off to the suburbs with better police protection and better schools.

According to DCUM, Montgomery County, Arlington, and Alexandria are all imploding crime-ridden hell holes with imploding crime-ridden hell hole schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Changing zoning laws will make zero difference to housing prices.

There's 300,000 housing units in DC. There's five million people in the suburbs.

Even if you could increase the housing stock by 10 percent (hugely ambitious), it would all be absorbed by people in the burbs looking for shorter commutes.

I guess all of you who think "zoning laws" is the answer to all our problems could go buy their old place in Manassas?

We can all see how affordable Navy Yard is now that it is nothing but condos and apartments.

Why do we assume everyone in the suburbs works in dc and wants to live here?

“We” don’t. But if a teensy, tiny percentage of them decide they’d rather live in the city, say 2 percent, that’s 100,000 new people.

A big "if" in my opinion since I mostly see people moving out of the city right now. I could live anywhere now, but I was lucky to buy here decades ago, so I'll stay. My kids, who loved growing up here, see no need to stay. Off to the suburbs with better police protection and better schools.

Which suburbs? You actually have to go pretty far out for better police protection...actually, the better schools are closer-in where crime is every bit as much as a problem as FH DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But worse than 2000-2020ish

I think that is generally schools everywhere though. The pandemic really did a number on schools and teachers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/1axhne2/the_public_needs_to_know_the_ugly_truth_students/

That reddit thread is really depressing. Let us not forget it was the PhD “educational curriculum experts” who led us down this path.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I have young adult children, and they are definitely not seeking 700 square foot 1 1/2 bedroom condos. They want three bedroom townhouses under 2000 square feet for under a million. Do such homes exist? All the new townhouses I see are $2 million and 3000 square feet.

Move to Rockville? You can’t afford NWDC if that’s the case. Idk why people think the world should cater to their budget?

They can’t afford NWDC due to zoning restrictions ….

So what? Not every person is entitled to live anywhere they like.

Put another way, everyone reading this will be prohibited from living somewhere as a direct result of residential zoning restrictions. For Paul and Susan, that somewhere is FH. For Tim and Liz, that somewhere is Maui. For Bob, that somewhere is Rockville

But…equity. This is why it is happening.

[Anonymous]

It’s depressing but true, at least for DCPS. Kids getting As in calculus who can’t do basic math. It’s stunning.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I actually think it will shrink a bit.

I do too. Especially as the schools are in decline. A lot of the growth was young families moving in - who want Sfh by the way

I don't understand when anyone says the schools are in decline. There are a fair number of families that send their kids to private schools, so the qualify of the schools doesn't really matter. DCPS enrollment has actually been increasing now for the last 3 years, and the Ward 3 schools at all levels are over-enrolled, and applications to Walls and Banneker are high as well (in fairness those come from all parts of the city).

The apartments are full of people with kids who want to be in-boundary for Ward 3 schools.

Ward 3 schools are the best in DC but not compatible with suburban schools. They have also seriously declined. The average SAT at Jackson Reed is under 1100! And yes. Those who can pay $60k for private, but not everyone can do that.

Well, we aren't talking about absolute results...the reference was to the schools declining. The SAT score you reference for Jackson Reed isn't declining...that's a fairly stable to slightly higher score vs. 5-10 years ago. Also, nobody was arguing that Whitman, Churchill, Langley, etc. aren't better schools...but again, that has been the case since forever. They also pull from a significantly wealthier and less diverse demographic.

Despite all this, the student population at Jackson Reed has been growing and it was from all in-bounds kids. They opened a brand new HS (Macarthur) because Jackson Reed is overcrowded.

Again, what is your empirical basis for the schools "declining".

Please cite a source for that assertion, thanks.

Well, where do you think I found information on the in-boundary kids at a DCPS public school...oh yeah, from the dcps website.

Jackson-Reed is now 2,153 kids with 67% in-boundary.

Wilson High School (name changed to Jackson-Reed) was 1,489 kids in 2010 and 58% in boundary.

So, there are 1,442 kids in-boundary at Jackson-Reed today vs. 863 kids in 2010.

Don't ask me to post the link...you know how to use Google just like anyone else.

Thanks, PP. No need to be so snippy and thin skinned, common to be asked for sources on this site.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Il’m not the previous poster, but please don’t make this into Ballston or Pike and Rose. Why would people live in DH if it just mimics those other places and they have lower taxes and better schools. Let’s rebuild Fh in a way that retains what’s special about the city. And yes, I’d live to see townhomes rather than tiny condos/apartments. We need places for families.

What is "special about the city" in your opinion?

Families live in apartments, too.

They do because there's not any starter home priced options. A $3-4k+ a month 2 bedroom rental apartment is not a substitute for a $500-750k townhouse.

That's the problem with housing right now. There's only two choices - an overpriced rental apartment with waterfall granite countertops or an overpriced detached house with white cabinets.

Rental costs are high, in part, because we've lost the mid-range price points.

News flash: a "starter home" in DC is now a condo. It's not a rowhouse. Please come back from 2005.

That's because there aren't many rowhouses. The big difference is rent versus ownership. Creating a bifurcated society is really bad over the long term.

There are a ton of row houses, just not that many of them in this part of Ward 3.

This resident favors townhouses on upper Wisconsin. DC's population is not growing, so adding thousands of apartments and small condos serves no purposes other than short term profits to the developers unless everyone in DC plans to move to Ward 3. Upper Wisc is basically a residential area with a commercial strip. Building lots of townhouses increases density and no doubt would make the area more affordable for many. FH easily could be built as a solid townhouse community without overly burdening the current infrastructure.

This is actually starting to make sense. Instead of losing middle class families to Rockville or Falls Church, you’re suggesting that DC stem the outflow of working families by building townhouses. Now that does make sense! I hope you and your neighbors are writing to the powers that be!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s depressing but true, at least for DCPS. Kids getting As in calculus who can’t do basic math. It’s stunning.

Everyone...stop making s**t up. DCPS only offers Calculus at the AP level and we are only talking about Ward 3 here. There is not anyone at JR taking AP Calculus that can't do basic math. Same with Walls which also has a decent number of Ward 3 kids, but is a smaller school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think it will shrink a bit.

I do too. Especially as the schools are in decline. A lot of the growth was young families moving in - who want Sfh by the way

I don't understand when anyone says the schools are in decline. There are a fair number of families that send their kids to private schools, so the qualify of the schools doesn't really matter. DCPS enrollment has actually been increasing now for the last 3 years, and the Ward 3 schools at all levels are over-enrolled, and applications to Walls and Banneker are high as well (in fairness those come from all parts of the city).

The apartments are full of people with kids who want to be in-boundary for Ward 3 schools.

Ward 3 schools are the best in DC but not compatible with suburban schools. They have also seriously declined. The average SAT at Jackson Reed is under 1100! And yes. Those who can pay $60k for private, but not everyone can do that.

Well, we aren't talking about absolute results...the reference was to the schools declining. The SAT score you reference for Jackson Reed isn't declining...that's a fairly stable to slightly higher score vs. 5-10 years ago. Also, nobody was arguing that Whitman, Churchill, Langley, etc. aren't better schools...but again, that has been the case since forever. They also pull from a significantly wealthier and less diverse demographic.

Despite all this, the student population at Jackson Reed has been growing and it was from all in-bounds kids. They opened a brand new HS (Macarthur) because Jackson Reed is overcrowded.

Again, what is your empirical basis for the schools "declining".

Please cite a source for that assertion, thanks.

Well, where do you think I found information on the in-boundary kids at a DCPS public school...oh yeah, from the dcps website.

Jackson-Reed is now 2,153 kids with 67% in-boundary.

Wilson High School (name changed to Jackson-Reed) was 1,489 kids in 2010 and 58% in boundary.

So, there are 1,442 kids in-boundary at Jackson-Reed today vs. 863 kids in 2010.

Don't ask me to post the link...you know how to use Google just like anyone else.

Thanks, PP. No need to be so snippy and thin skinned, common to be asked for sources on this site.

Sounds like you are pretty thin-skinned...I called you out on your laziness and you are upset about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have young adult children, and they are definitely not seeking 700 square foot 1 1/2 bedroom condos. They want three bedroom townhouses under 2000 square feet for under a million. Do such homes exist? All the new townhouses I see are $2 million and 3000 square feet.

Move to Rockville? You can’t afford NWDC if that’s the case. Idk why people think the world should cater to their budget?

They can’t afford NWDC due to zoning restrictions ….

So what? Not every person is entitled to live anywhere they like.

Put another way, everyone reading this will be prohibited from living somewhere as a direct result of residential zoning restrictions. For Paul and Susan, that somewhere is FH. For Tim and Liz, that somewhere is Maui. For Bob, that somewhere is Rockville

But…equity. This is why it is happening.

Why do you support government regulation of private property and oppose private property rights?