Wisconsin Ave Development Project

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Changing zoning laws will make zero difference to housing prices.

There's 300,000 housing units in DC. There's five million people in the suburbs.

Even if you could increase the housing stock by 10 percent (hugely ambitious), it would all be absorbed by people in the burbs looking for shorter commutes.

I guess all of you who think "zoning laws" is the answer to all our problems could go buy their old place in Manassas?

We can all see how affordable Navy Yard is now that it is nothing but condos and apartments.

Why do we assume everyone in the suburbs works in dc and wants to live here?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Il’m not the previous poster, but please don’t make this into Ballston or Pike and Rose. Why would people live in DH if it just mimics those other places and they have lower taxes and better schools. Let’s rebuild Fh in a way that retains what’s special about the city. And yes, I’d live to see townhomes rather than tiny condos/apartments. We need places for families.

What is "special about the city" in your opinion?

Families live in apartments, too.

They do because there's not any starter home priced options. A $3-4k+ a month 2 bedroom rental apartment is not a substitute for a $500-750k townhouse.

That's the problem with housing right now. There's only two choices - an overpriced rental apartment with waterfall granite countertops or an overpriced detached house with white cabinets.

Rental costs are high, in part, because we've lost the mid-range price points.

News flash: a "starter home" in DC is now a condo. It's not a rowhouse. Please come back from 2005.

That's because there aren't many rowhouses. The big difference is rent versus ownership. Creating a bifurcated society is really bad over the long term.

There are a ton of row houses, just not that many of them in this part of Ward 3.

This resident favors townhouses on upper Wisconsin. DC's population is not growing, so adding thousands of apartments and small condos serves no purposes other than short term profits to the developers unless everyone in DC plans to move to Ward 3. Upper Wisc is basically a residential area with a commercial strip. Building lots of townhouses increases density and no doubt would make the area more affordable for many. FH easily could be built as a solid townhouse community without overly burdening the current infrastructure.

D.C.'s population hasn't been growing the last few years, but it's been on a significant upward trend for the last two decades, and it doesn't seem like it makes a lot of sense to plan as if the capital of the United States is actually Toledo (and anyway, population increased again in 2023). Do you think D.C.'s population is finished growing entirely?

It grew, nearly imperceptibly, because of increased births and international migration. Domestic migration again was a net negative. It was not a sign of sustainable growth.

Sure, but if you don't count births or international migration as growth, very few places are growing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Changing zoning laws will make zero difference to housing prices.

There's 300,000 housing units in DC. There's five million people in the suburbs.

Even if you could increase the housing stock by 10 percent (hugely ambitious), it would all be absorbed by people in the burbs looking for shorter commutes.

I guess all of you who think "zoning laws" is the answer to all our problems could go buy their old place in Manassas?

We can all see how affordable Navy Yard is now that it is nothing but condos and apartments.

What an odd comment. There used to be very little housing there, and very few people lived there. Now there is lots of housing there, and lots of people live there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think it will shrink a bit.

I do too. Especially as the schools are in decline. A lot of the growth was young families moving in - who want Sfh by the way

I don't understand when anyone says the schools are in decline. There are a fair number of families that send their kids to private schools, so the qualify of the schools doesn't really matter. DCPS enrollment has actually been increasing now for the last 3 years, and the Ward 3 schools at all levels are over-enrolled, and applications to Walls and Banneker are high as well (in fairness those come from all parts of the city).

The apartments are full of people with kids who want to be in-boundary for Ward 3 schools.

Ward 3 schools are the best in DC but not compatible with suburban schools. They have also seriously declined. The average SAT at Jackson Reed is under 1100! And yes. Those who can pay $60k for private, but not everyone can do that.

Well, we aren't talking about absolute results...the reference was to the schools declining. The SAT score you reference for Jackson Reed isn't declining...that's a fairly stable to slightly higher score vs. 5-10 years ago. Also, nobody was arguing that Whitman, Churchill, Langley, etc. aren't better schools...but again, that has been the case since forever. They also pull from a significantly wealthier and less diverse demographic.

Despite all this, the student population at Jackson Reed has been growing and it was from all in-bounds kids. They opened a brand new HS (Macarthur) because Jackson Reed is overcrowded.

Again, what is your empirical basis for the schools "declining".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I actually think it will shrink a bit.

It seems likely to anyone paying attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Changing zoning laws will make zero difference to housing prices.

There's 300,000 housing units in DC. There's five million people in the suburbs.

Even if you could increase the housing stock by 10 percent (hugely ambitious), it would all be absorbed by people in the burbs looking for shorter commutes.

I guess all of you who think "zoning laws" is the answer to all our problems could go buy their old place in Manassas?

We can all see how affordable Navy Yard is now that it is nothing but condos and apartments.

Why do we assume everyone in the suburbs works in dc and wants to live here?

“We” don’t. But if a teensy, tiny percentage of them decide they’d rather live in the city, say 2 percent, that’s 100,000 new people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Property values only go up, up, up if you're willing to sell your SFH for development.

Lots of the people in those new apartments would actually prefer to be in your SFH. That's why your home value will go up, up, up. Once people are in a neighborhood and they like it, they prefer to remain in the neighborhood if possible in a bigger home.

The development will bring more people into your neighborhood who will eventually want to buy your home. Enjoy the the windfall when you retire.

Even if crime continues to increase? You don’t think we’ll see flight to further out burbs? This carjacking nonsense and mass retail theft is getting old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think it will shrink a bit.

I do too. Especially as the schools are in decline. A lot of the growth was young families moving in - who want Sfh by the way

I don't understand when anyone says the schools are in decline. There are a fair number of families that send their kids to private schools, so the qualify of the schools doesn't really matter. DCPS enrollment has actually been increasing now for the last 3 years, and the Ward 3 schools at all levels are over-enrolled, and applications to Walls and Banneker are high as well (in fairness those come from all parts of the city).

The apartments are full of people with kids who want to be in-boundary for Ward 3 schools.

Ward 3 schools are the best in DC but not compatible with suburban schools. They have also seriously declined. The average SAT at Jackson Reed is under 1100! And yes. Those who can pay $60k for private, but not everyone can do that.

Well, we aren't talking about absolute results...the reference was to the schools declining. The SAT score you reference for Jackson Reed isn't declining...that's a fairly stable to slightly higher score vs. 5-10 years ago. Also, nobody was arguing that Whitman, Churchill, Langley, etc. aren't better schools...but again, that has been the case since forever. They also pull from a significantly wealthier and less diverse demographic.

Despite all this, the student population at Jackson Reed has been growing and it was from all in-bounds kids. They opened a brand new HS (Macarthur) because Jackson Reed is overcrowded.

Again, what is your empirical basis for the schools "declining".

Please cite a source for that assertion, thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would be nice if they built 3 bedroom apartments families can actually live in. Also hope they do not build a bunch of fake 2 bedroom apartments where the 2nd bedroom is tiny with no window. They did that in a lot of Navy Yard new builds.

100% If DC wants families living in apartments or condos for the long term, large apartments and condos need to be built. 2500 plus square feet minimum.

They seem to be putting 3BRs in downtown Bethesda.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Turning the Lord and Taylor into a WMATA bus garage is nuts. Makes me question the credibility of the entire plan.

The busses have to go somewhere and they need to be repaired/maintained. It's the end of the line for a lot of busses and connects to the Metro.

What they should be doing is building a bus garage and having some sort of mixed use 8 stories high above the garage - shopping, indoor playland, a big gym, etc. A stand-alone bus garage is dumb. Maximize use of air rights.

Have you ever smelled the exhaust from a bus garage?

Wmata already purchase the Lord and Taylor site. The diesel bus garage on Wisconsin will relocate one block away from Wisconsin to the L&T, and will be for electric buses. This is a win for everyone. Free up the space on Wisconsin, directly above a metro entrance, freeing it up for development on the main commercial corridor, and replace diesel with electric. Of course some NIMBYs that will be next to the new bus garage instead of a block away from it are pissed, even though it will be electric, but it makes perfect sense to all other rational humans.

The problem is Wmata has no money…follow their news, there is a “fiscal cliff”, less riders post COVID. I doubt they will get money to move the bus garage in the next 10 years. Maybe if they partner with a developer to put housing / retail on top of the new garage they can make it happen. But some of the neighbors will stop it from happening. And we’ll still be stuck with the diesel bus garage on our Main Street. Ya….l despise the neighborhood NIMBYs. I live here and it’s shocking to me how short sighted and selfish people are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have young adult children, and they are definitely not seeking 700 square foot 1 1/2 bedroom condos. They want three bedroom townhouses under 2000 square feet for under a million. Do such homes exist? All the new townhouses I see are $2 million and 3000 square feet.

No. They don’t exist in NW or even in Arlington or Bethesda. They can still buy what we used to call “starter homes” near downtown Bethesda and Silver Spring for under $1M and then add on over time, or trade up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Changing zoning laws will make zero difference to housing prices.

There's 300,000 housing units in DC. There's five million people in the suburbs.

Even if you could increase the housing stock by 10 percent (hugely ambitious), it would all be absorbed by people in the burbs looking for shorter commutes.

I guess all of you who think "zoning laws" is the answer to all our problems could go buy their old place in Manassas?

Not necessarily with a few days in office & remote work. That is only likely to increase as CL expire and footprints are downsized. A number of businesses and agencies have been re-locating out of DC. Past is not prologue here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's just not sufficient demand for all these tiny condos. City Ridge is not rented and their opening another building next door. That plus the wardman, chevy chase, and friendship heights? Who is going to live in all these condos? Vacancy rates are high.

And more condos are still being built in Bethesda. Issue is that these condos do not work for middle class families.

Nope, just the rich and the poor. Thank you (not) MoCo Council! Actually there is workforce housing for income up to $180k in Bethesda.

[Anonymous]

30% of JR is OOB. Likely to grow in the future.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson-Reed_High_School#Admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think it will shrink a bit.

I do too. Especially as the schools are in decline. A lot of the growth was young families moving in - who want Sfh by the way

I don't understand when anyone says the schools are in decline. There are a fair number of families that send their kids to private schools, so the qualify of the schools doesn't really matter. DCPS enrollment has actually been increasing now for the last 3 years, and the Ward 3 schools at all levels are over-enrolled, and applications to Walls and Banneker are high as well (in fairness those come from all parts of the city).

The apartments are full of people with kids who want to be in-boundary for Ward 3 schools.

Ward 3 schools are the best in DC but not compatible with suburban schools. They have also seriously declined. The average SAT at Jackson Reed is under 1100! And yes. Those who can pay $60k for private, but not everyone can do that.

Well, we aren't talking about absolute results...the reference was to the schools declining. The SAT score you reference for Jackson Reed isn't declining...that's a fairly stable to slightly higher score vs. 5-10 years ago. Also, nobody was arguing that Whitman, Churchill, Langley, etc. aren't better schools...but again, that has been the case since forever. They also pull from a significantly wealthier and less diverse demographic.

Despite all this, the student population at Jackson Reed has been growing and it was from all in-bounds kids. They opened a brand new HS (Macarthur) because Jackson Reed is overcrowded.

Again, what is your empirical basis for the schools "declining".

Please cite a source for that assertion, thanks.

Well, where do you think I found information on the in-boundary kids at a DCPS public school...oh yeah, from the dcps website.

Jackson-Reed is now 2,153 kids with 67% in-boundary.

Wilson High School (name changed to Jackson-Reed) was 1,489 kids in 2010 and 58% in boundary.

So, there are 1,442 kids in-boundary at Jackson-Reed today vs. 863 kids in 2010.

Don't ask me to post the link...you know how to use Google just like anyone else.