Notre Dame or Georgetown

[Anonymous]

my kid didn't pick ND, but they were one of the few schools that gave a bit of merit, which I appreciated.

I'm annoyed by these colleges sitting on billions that think my family can pay 350k per kid for college.

I'm not sure what funding priorities you mean, but Georgetown has far stingier FA. That's the top line number that matters. My head is not turned by these "lookey here! we'll give you 5k so you can take a summer internship!" when at the same time they're billing you full fare in tuition and fees.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DD applied to both ND and Georgetown early action. We really think she'll get into both and are already discussing the differences, the pros and cons. Any insights on the schools from people who have kids there now. Things besides academics as both are great in that regard. Thank you.

To share my completely subjective and emotional impressions:

I found Notre Dame stifling when I visited. All those rah-rah, white, wealthy, Catholic kids who've been boy or girl scouts and who are just so wholesome, self-satisfied, and assured of their places in society. Self-congratulatory and naive about their privilege as rich, white Christians. I preferred Georgetown. I thought the students, on balance, had more humility and creativity and less artless myopia, and I preferred the religious diversity. These are my purely personal takeaways. Others will no doubt see these schools differently. I didn't apply to ND, got into GU, and went to Northwestern.

Whatever you saw on a tour, you saw on a tour. I don't doubt it. But Georgetown is whiter and it's wealthier. It's wealthier because, ironically, the school is much poorer. The richer the school, the more generous the aid, the more economically diverse the class.

ND is more Catholic than Georgetown. True fact.

I mean, people, there are numbers on this. Not on how many boys scouts or how "humble" it is (although Georgetown has never struck me as especially humble), but the whiteness and the wealth of the student body. Facts. Numbers.

I don't think Georgetown is whiter, but you may have a point about wealth. When I was there, somebody had put up a poster quoting the university president saying something to the effect of, "Either we are all Notre Dame or none of us is." How is that for demanding blanket conformity? Within that framework, perhaps there is room for individuality, but the school spirit thing is depersonalizing. They also talked about how they were going to change the world through their faith. They had the missionary zeal and self-righteousness of crusaders. Why didn't they all just dye themselves blue and green? Having parietals and separate dorms for men and women made me feel it would be like high school all over again.

meanwhile the Jesuits had three goals: to establish highly disciplined schools, to propagate Catholic beliefs through missionary work, and to combat Protestantism. All jesuit grads are told to "light the world on fire". So not sure about missionaries at ND, but it's at the core of GU.

parietals are the jurisdiction of ResLife and you'll only get in trouble if someone complains. this almost never happens when you have a single (so upperclassman). and it almost never happens if you're an underclassman and your roommate likes you even a little. also, even if you're written up, nothing happens until 3rd infraction and I've never even heard of that in recent years.

I went to ND undergrad and Georgetown Law (for a year), but my 21st century experience was teaching two years at ND pre-pandemic.

And the Jesuits ran the Inquisition, but that was a while back. These days, they're more chill. At Georgetown, I didn't pick up on a repressive religious vibe.

One of the girls at ND told me parietals are much more strictly enforced for women than men, which is in line with the 1950s vibe I sensed there. And my visit was very much in the 21st century. Just the existence of parietals, even if they're not enforced, is overbearing

If ND is what you want, more power to you. I found it suffocating.

And the more of you out there who hate ND, the better for my kid who desperately wants to attend ND. She is a wholesome kid who is devout in her Catholic faith and would welcome rules like parietals. Access to a chapel and masses right in the residential hall...it doesn't get any better than that.

So you do you!! Go to GU or anywhere else for that matter and have all the sex you want in the middle of the night.

It's not just about sex. Notre Dame infantilizes its students with these rules. Women are more likely to be punished (usually by a talking to from a rector, a letter home, or having to write an essay) than men, who are usually let off with a wink and a nod. If you want a paternalistic and misogynistic high school environment, go for it. I think it's disrespectful to treat adults in this way, but, as you say, you do you (or let your daughter do her).

I liked having parietals. It wasn’t infantilism, it gave me a sense of control and security and privacy. I don’t find security rules disrespectful.

The application of parietals is sexist and archaic. Ironically, gays and lesbians can be in one another's rooms at night but not straight people. However, I understand the appeal to more traditional students.

[Anonymous]

Pro-gay! Awesome.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DD applied to both ND and Georgetown early action. We really think she'll get into both and are already discussing the differences, the pros and cons. Any insights on the schools from people who have kids there now. Things besides academics as both are great in that regard. Thank you.

To share my completely subjective and emotional impressions:

I found Notre Dame stifling when I visited. All those rah-rah, white, wealthy, Catholic kids who've been boy or girl scouts and who are just so wholesome, self-satisfied, and assured of their places in society. Self-congratulatory and naive about their privilege as rich, white Christians. I preferred Georgetown. I thought the students, on balance, had more humility and creativity and less artless myopia, and I preferred the religious diversity. These are my purely personal takeaways. Others will no doubt see these schools differently. I didn't apply to ND, got into GU, and went to Northwestern.

Whatever you saw on a tour, you saw on a tour. I don't doubt it. But Georgetown is whiter and it's wealthier. It's wealthier because, ironically, the school is much poorer. The richer the school, the more generous the aid, the more economically diverse the class.

ND is more Catholic than Georgetown. True fact.

I mean, people, there are numbers on this. Not on how many boys scouts or how "humble" it is (although Georgetown has never struck me as especially humble), but the whiteness and the wealth of the student body. Facts. Numbers.

I don't think Georgetown is whiter, but you may have a point about wealth. When I was there, somebody had put up a poster quoting the university president saying something to the effect of, "Either we are all Notre Dame or none of us is." How is that for demanding blanket conformity? Within that framework, perhaps there is room for individuality, but the school spirit thing is depersonalizing. They also talked about how they were going to change the world through their faith. They had the missionary zeal and self-righteousness of crusaders. Why didn't they all just dye themselves blue and green? Having parietals and separate dorms for men and women made me feel it would be like high school all over again.

meanwhile the Jesuits had three goals: to establish highly disciplined schools, to propagate Catholic beliefs through missionary work, and to combat Protestantism. All jesuit grads are told to "light the world on fire". So not sure about missionaries at ND, but it's at the core of GU.

parietals are the jurisdiction of ResLife and you'll only get in trouble if someone complains. this almost never happens when you have a single (so upperclassman). and it almost never happens if you're an underclassman and your roommate likes you even a little. also, even if you're written up, nothing happens until 3rd infraction and I've never even heard of that in recent years.

I went to ND undergrad and Georgetown Law (for a year), but my 21st century experience was teaching two years at ND pre-pandemic.

And the Jesuits ran the Inquisition, but that was a while back. These days, they're more chill. At Georgetown, I didn't pick up on a repressive religious vibe.

One of the girls at ND told me parietals are much more strictly enforced for women than men, which is in line with the 1950s vibe I sensed there. And my visit was very much in the 21st century. Just the existence of parietals, even if they're not enforced, is overbearing

If ND is what you want, more power to you. I found it suffocating.

And the more of you out there who hate ND, the better for my kid who desperately wants to attend ND. She is a wholesome kid who is devout in her Catholic faith and would welcome rules like parietals. Access to a chapel and masses right in the residential hall...it doesn't get any better than that.

So you do you!! Go to GU or anywhere else for that matter and have all the sex you want in the middle of the night.

It's not just about sex. Notre Dame infantilizes its students with these rules. Women are more likely to be punished (usually by a talking to from a rector, a letter home, or having to write an essay) than men, who are usually let off with a wink and a nod. If you want a paternalistic and misogynistic high school environment, go for it. I think it's disrespectful to treat adults in this way, but, as you say, you do you (or let your daughter do her).

I liked having parietals. It wasn’t infantilism, it gave me a sense of control and security and privacy. I don’t find security rules disrespectful.

The application of parietals is sexist and archaic. Ironically, gays and lesbians can be in one another's rooms at night but not straight people. However, I understand the appeal to more traditional students.

There are men's bathroom and women's bathroom. Ironical gays and lesbians can use the same bathroom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having gone to a Jesuit college & having relatives who went to ND & GU, I keep checking this discussion to see if anyone has said anything even slightly interesting. And all I get are childish spats over various versions of EA & which one is whiter. Or “Our endowment is bigger”! Come on people, you’re better than that. Start slinging some serious mud!

Endowment is actually a significant factor.

That's what she said!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:there's a lot I personally probably wouldn't like about ND, but my own kid is dealing with a roommate who is taking up a lot of their shared room with "personal time" -- during hours when my kid would like to be sleeping in the room he's paid for. freshman year is hard enough without dealing with this nonsense.

Anywho, a school rule that you can't have guests in a shared room from midnight to 8am does not sound to be to be all that extreme to me right this minute.

I sometimes feel like we go from extreme to extreme. A cool mom comes on here and says she's okay with overnight guests in her home senior year in high school and you'd all jump all over her. 6 months later you balk at a rule that says no overnight guests in shared rooms, when beds are three feet apart. As pointed out, this really only impacts shared rooms bcs there is no bed check. If nobody is complaining, nobody cares.

That's why this forum is called "Mom Fights". Some of us just come here for the entertainment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD applied to both ND and Georgetown early action. We really think she'll get into both and are already discussing the differences, the pros and cons. Any insights on the schools from people who have kids there now. Things besides academics as both are great in that regard. Thank you.

Both are great choices. As you say, she'll get a great education at either one. ND is much more overtly Catholic (parietals and single sex dorms), and some people call it "Catholic Disneyland." Personally, I prefer the more nuanced Jesuit Catholicism of Georgetown to the slightly more didactic Holy Cross Catholicism of Notre Dame. Georgetown is much more diverse and has more international students. The locations are quite different. There's more to do in D.C. than in South Bend, and it's probably easier to get internships in D.C., but ND has a beautiful campus. ND also has a better football team. Hoyas wear blue and grey; the Fighting Irish wear blue and Kelly green. Great options, so it's a tough choice.

Georgetown isn't really Catholic anymore though. It is "catholic" for fundraising from alumni, but other than that it has mostly rejected Catholicism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD applied to both ND and Georgetown early action. We really think she'll get into both and are already discussing the differences, the pros and cons. Any insights on the schools from people who have kids there now. Things besides academics as both are great in that regard. Thank you.

Both are great choices. As you say, she'll get a great education at either one. ND is much more overtly Catholic (parietals and single sex dorms), and some people call it "Catholic Disneyland." Personally, I prefer the more nuanced Jesuit Catholicism of Georgetown to the slightly more didactic Holy Cross Catholicism of Notre Dame. Georgetown is much more diverse and has more international students. The locations are quite different. There's more to do in D.C. than in South Bend, and it's probably easier to get internships in D.C., but ND has a beautiful campus. ND also has a better football team. Hoyas wear blue and grey; the Fighting Irish wear blue and Kelly green. Great options, so it's a tough choice.

Georgetown isn't really Catholic anymore though. It is "catholic" for fundraising from alumni, but other than that it has mostly rejected Catholicism.

Georgetown is a modern university first and a Catholic institution second, meaning academic freedom is not smothered by Catholic traditions. However, there is a rigorous theological requirement for undergrads. All students are required to take a year of philosophy and a year of theology. Modern Jesuits tend to respect freedom of conscience more and to be more subtle and nuanced in their analyses of moral questions than adherents of non-Jesuit traditions. Students at Georgetown will be engaged but not indoctrinated. It's a good place for an independent thinker who is willing to be challenged. Other than that, Georgetown is as Catholic or not Catholic as you want it to be. If you want daily mass and regular retreats, they are there. It is much more liberal theologically (although not necessarily politically) than Notre Dame. Pope Francis is, of course, a Jesuit, and he embodies the Jesuit tradition beautifully through his efforts to understand individual circumstances, his respect for the primacy of conscience, and his commitment to social justice. This is the direction of the modern Church. The Jesuit tradition, imo, helps one to negotiate our complicated modern world with integrity and compassion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD applied to both ND and Georgetown early action. We really think she'll get into both and are already discussing the differences, the pros and cons. Any insights on the schools from people who have kids there now. Things besides academics as both are great in that regard. Thank you.

Both are great choices. As you say, she'll get a great education at either one. ND is much more overtly Catholic (parietals and single sex dorms), and some people call it "Catholic Disneyland." Personally, I prefer the more nuanced Jesuit Catholicism of Georgetown to the slightly more didactic Holy Cross Catholicism of Notre Dame. Georgetown is much more diverse and has more international students. The locations are quite different. There's more to do in D.C. than in South Bend, and it's probably easier to get internships in D.C., but ND has a beautiful campus. ND also has a better football team. Hoyas wear blue and grey; the Fighting Irish wear blue and Kelly green. Great options, so it's a tough choice.

Georgetown isn't really Catholic anymore though. It is "catholic" for fundraising from alumni, but other than that it has mostly rejected Catholicism.

Georgetown is a modern university first and a Catholic institution second, meaning academic freedom is not smothered by Catholic traditions. However, there is a rigorous theological requirement for undergrads. All students are required to take a year of philosophy and a year of theology. Modern Jesuits tend to respect freedom of conscience more and to be more subtle and nuanced in their analyses of moral questions than adherents of non-Jesuit traditions. Students at Georgetown will be engaged but not indoctrinated. It's a good place for an independent thinker who is willing to be challenged. Other than that, Georgetown is as Catholic or not Catholic as you want it to be. If you want daily mass and regular retreats, they are there. It is much more liberal theologically (although not necessarily politically) than Notre Dame. Pope Francis is, of course, a Jesuit, and he embodies the Jesuit tradition beautifully through his efforts to understand individual circumstances, his respect for the primacy of conscience, and his commitment to social justice. This is the direction of the modern Church. The Jesuit tradition, imo, helps one to negotiate our complicated modern world with integrity and compassion.

Notre Dame is also a modern university that doesn't smother academic freedom and also embraces Catholic traditions. A much richer experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD applied to both ND and Georgetown early action. We really think she'll get into both and are already discussing the differences, the pros and cons. Any insights on the schools from people who have kids there now. Things besides academics as both are great in that regard. Thank you.

Both are great choices. As you say, she'll get a great education at either one. ND is much more overtly Catholic (parietals and single sex dorms), and some people call it "Catholic Disneyland." Personally, I prefer the more nuanced Jesuit Catholicism of Georgetown to the slightly more didactic Holy Cross Catholicism of Notre Dame. Georgetown is much more diverse and has more international students. The locations are quite different. There's more to do in D.C. than in South Bend, and it's probably easier to get internships in D.C., but ND has a beautiful campus. ND also has a better football team. Hoyas wear blue and grey; the Fighting Irish wear blue and Kelly green. Great options, so it's a tough choice.

Georgetown isn't really Catholic anymore though. It is "catholic" for fundraising from alumni, but other than that it has mostly rejected Catholicism.

Georgetown is a modern university first and a Catholic institution second, meaning academic freedom is not smothered by Catholic traditions. However, there is a rigorous theological requirement for undergrads. All students are required to take a year of philosophy and a year of theology. Modern Jesuits tend to respect freedom of conscience more and to be more subtle and nuanced in their analyses of moral questions than adherents of non-Jesuit traditions. Students at Georgetown will be engaged but not indoctrinated. It's a good place for an independent thinker who is willing to be challenged. Other than that, Georgetown is as Catholic or not Catholic as you want it to be. If you want daily mass and regular retreats, they are there. It is much more liberal theologically (although not necessarily politically) than Notre Dame. Pope Francis is, of course, a Jesuit, and he embodies the Jesuit tradition beautifully through his efforts to understand individual circumstances, his respect for the primacy of conscience, and his commitment to social justice. This is the direction of the modern Church. The Jesuit tradition, imo, helps one to negotiate our complicated modern world with integrity and compassion.

The two schools have the same number of required philosophy and theo classes - and a similar wide variety of classes that fulfill those requirements.

Neither require mass attendance or anything like that.

I think people have an outdated notion of who goes there these days. Nikole Hanna Jones is a proud ND graduate, for example. Amy Coney Barrett is tossed around a lot, but she went to Rhodes. I agree if you want to talk about ND Law, it's more Federalist Society than not.

I think one appeals to kids who want a big sports program and one appeals to kids who want DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD applied to both ND and Georgetown early action. We really think she'll get into both and are already discussing the differences, the pros and cons. Any insights on the schools from people who have kids there now. Things besides academics as both are great in that regard. Thank you.

Both are great choices. As you say, she'll get a great education at either one. ND is much more overtly Catholic (parietals and single sex dorms), and some people call it "Catholic Disneyland." Personally, I prefer the more nuanced Jesuit Catholicism of Georgetown to the slightly more didactic Holy Cross Catholicism of Notre Dame. Georgetown is much more diverse and has more international students. The locations are quite different. There's more to do in D.C. than in South Bend, and it's probably easier to get internships in D.C., but ND has a beautiful campus. ND also has a better football team. Hoyas wear blue and grey; the Fighting Irish wear blue and Kelly green. Great options, so it's a tough choice.

Georgetown isn't really Catholic anymore though. It is "catholic" for fundraising from alumni, but other than that it has mostly rejected Catholicism.

Georgetown is a modern university first and a Catholic institution second, meaning academic freedom is not smothered by Catholic traditions. However, there is a rigorous theological requirement for undergrads. All students are required to take a year of philosophy and a year of theology. Modern Jesuits tend to respect freedom of conscience more and to be more subtle and nuanced in their analyses of moral questions than adherents of non-Jesuit traditions. Students at Georgetown will be engaged but not indoctrinated. It's a good place for an independent thinker who is willing to be challenged. Other than that, Georgetown is as Catholic or not Catholic as you want it to be. If you want daily mass and regular retreats, they are there. It is much more liberal theologically (although not necessarily politically) than Notre Dame. Pope Francis is, of course, a Jesuit, and he embodies the Jesuit tradition beautifully through his efforts to understand individual circumstances, his respect for the primacy of conscience, and his commitment to social justice. This is the direction of the modern Church. The Jesuit tradition, imo, helps one to negotiate our complicated modern world with integrity and compassion.

Fantastic summary of the Jesuit approach.
-BC grad

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD applied to both ND and Georgetown early action. We really think she'll get into both and are already discussing the differences, the pros and cons. Any insights on the schools from people who have kids there now. Things besides academics as both are great in that regard. Thank you.

Both are great choices. As you say, she'll get a great education at either one. ND is much more overtly Catholic (parietals and single sex dorms), and some people call it "Catholic Disneyland." Personally, I prefer the more nuanced Jesuit Catholicism of Georgetown to the slightly more didactic Holy Cross Catholicism of Notre Dame. Georgetown is much more diverse and has more international students. The locations are quite different. There's more to do in D.C. than in South Bend, and it's probably easier to get internships in D.C., but ND has a beautiful campus. ND also has a better football team. Hoyas wear blue and grey; the Fighting Irish wear blue and Kelly green. Great options, so it's a tough choice.

Georgetown isn't really Catholic anymore though. It is "catholic" for fundraising from alumni, but other than that it has mostly rejected Catholicism.

Georgetown is a modern university first and a Catholic institution second, meaning academic freedom is not smothered by Catholic traditions. However, there is a rigorous theological requirement for undergrads. All students are required to take a year of philosophy and a year of theology. Modern Jesuits tend to respect freedom of conscience more and to be more subtle and nuanced in their analyses of moral questions than adherents of non-Jesuit traditions. Students at Georgetown will be engaged but not indoctrinated. It's a good place for an independent thinker who is willing to be challenged. Other than that, Georgetown is as Catholic or not Catholic as you want it to be. If you want daily mass and regular retreats, they are there. It is much more liberal theologically (although not necessarily politically) than Notre Dame. Pope Francis is, of course, a Jesuit, and he embodies the Jesuit tradition beautifully through his efforts to understand individual circumstances, his respect for the primacy of conscience, and his commitment to social justice. This is the direction of the modern Church. The Jesuit tradition, imo, helps one to negotiate our complicated modern world with integrity and compassion.

The two schools have the same number of required philosophy and theo classes - and a similar wide variety of classes that fulfill those requirements.

Neither require mass attendance or anything like that.

I think people have an outdated notion of who goes there these days. Nikole Hanna Jones is a proud ND graduate, for example. Amy Coney Barrett is tossed around a lot, but she went to Rhodes. I agree if you want to talk about ND Law, it's more Federalist Society than not.

I think one appeals to kids who want a big sports program and one appeals to kids who want DC.

I’m a Notre Dame Law grad and I agree. Coney Barrett has tarnished the reputation of the university as a whole but the real truth is that the law school is way more conservative than undergrad. The undergrad school has all kinds. I’m not sure I’d send my own kids there’s but there’s no denying that that school has a helluva lot to offer the right students and has plenty of kids who lean left.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD applied to both ND and Georgetown early action. We really think she'll get into both and are already discussing the differences, the pros and cons. Any insights on the schools from people who have kids there now. Things besides academics as both are great in that regard. Thank you.

To share my completely subjective and emotional impressions:

I found Notre Dame stifling when I visited. All those rah-rah, white, wealthy, Catholic kids who've been boy or girl scouts and who are just so wholesome, self-satisfied, and assured of their places in society. Self-congratulatory and naive about their privilege as rich, white Christians. I preferred Georgetown. I thought the students, on balance, had more humility and creativity and less artless myopia, and I preferred the religious diversity. These are my purely personal takeaways. Others will no doubt see these schools differently. I didn't apply to ND, got into GU, and went to Northwestern.

Whatever you saw on a tour, you saw on a tour. I don't doubt it. But Georgetown is whiter and it's wealthier. It's wealthier because, ironically, the school is much poorer. The richer the school, the more generous the aid, the more economically diverse the class.

ND is more Catholic than Georgetown. True fact.

I mean, people, there are numbers on this. Not on how many boys scouts or how "humble" it is (although Georgetown has never struck me as especially humble), but the whiteness and the wealth of the student body. Facts. Numbers.

I don't think Georgetown is whiter, but you may have a point about wealth. When I was there, somebody had put up a poster quoting the university president saying something to the effect of, "Either we are all Notre Dame or none of us is." How is that for demanding blanket conformity? Within that framework, perhaps there is room for individuality, but the school spirit thing is depersonalizing. They also talked about how they were going to change the world through their faith. They had the missionary zeal and self-righteousness of crusaders. Why didn't they all just dye themselves blue and green? Having parietals and separate dorms for men and women made me feel it would be like high school all over again.

meanwhile the Jesuits had three goals: to establish highly disciplined schools, to propagate Catholic beliefs through missionary work, and to combat Protestantism. All jesuit grads are told to "light the world on fire". So not sure about missionaries at ND, but it's at the core of GU.

parietals are the jurisdiction of ResLife and you'll only get in trouble if someone complains. this almost never happens when you have a single (so upperclassman). and it almost never happens if you're an underclassman and your roommate likes you even a little. also, even if you're written up, nothing happens until 3rd infraction and I've never even heard of that in recent years.

I went to ND undergrad and Georgetown Law (for a year), but my 21st century experience was teaching two years at ND pre-pandemic.

And the Jesuits ran the Inquisition, but that was a while back. These days, they're more chill. At Georgetown, I didn't pick up on a repressive religious vibe.

One of the girls at ND told me parietals are much more strictly enforced for women than men, which is in line with the 1950s vibe I sensed there. And my visit was very much in the 21st century. Just the existence of parietals, even if they're not enforced, is overbearing

If ND is what you want, more power to you. I found it suffocating.

And the more of you out there who hate ND, the better for my kid who desperately wants to attend ND. She is a wholesome kid who is devout in her Catholic faith and would welcome rules like parietals. Access to a chapel and masses right in the residential hall...it doesn't get any better than that.

So you do you!! Go to GU or anywhere else for that matter and have all the sex you want in the middle of the night.

It's not just about sex. Notre Dame infantilizes its students with these rules. Women are more likely to be punished (usually by a talking to from a rector, a letter home, or having to write an essay) than men, who are usually let off with a wink and a nod. If you want a paternalistic and misogynistic high school environment, go for it. I think it's disrespectful to treat adults in this way, but, as you say, you do you (or let your daughter do her).

I liked having parietals. It wasn’t infantilism, it gave me a sense of control and security and privacy. I don’t find security rules disrespectful.

They can have visitors in the room until 2am on Friday and Saturday nights (midnight Sunday-Thursday). I am sure I would have been annoyed by this in college, but it doesn’t seem so bad now that I am 50. Basically, you can do whatever you want until 2am, just not sleep over and inconvenience your roommate by having an overnight guest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD applied to both ND and Georgetown early action. We really think she'll get into both and are already discussing the differences, the pros and cons. Any insights on the schools from people who have kids there now. Things besides academics as both are great in that regard. Thank you.

To share my completely subjective and emotional impressions:

I found Notre Dame stifling when I visited. All those rah-rah, white, wealthy, Catholic kids who've been boy or girl scouts and who are just so wholesome, self-satisfied, and assured of their places in society. Self-congratulatory and naive about their privilege as rich, white Christians. I preferred Georgetown. I thought the students, on balance, had more humility and creativity and less artless myopia, and I preferred the religious diversity. These are my purely personal takeaways. Others will no doubt see these schools differently. I didn't apply to ND, got into GU, and went to Northwestern.

Whatever you saw on a tour, you saw on a tour. I don't doubt it. But Georgetown is whiter and it's wealthier. It's wealthier because, ironically, the school is much poorer. The richer the school, the more generous the aid, the more economically diverse the class.

ND is more Catholic than Georgetown. True fact.

I mean, people, there are numbers on this. Not on how many boys scouts or how "humble" it is (although Georgetown has never struck me as especially humble), but the whiteness and the wealth of the student body. Facts. Numbers.

I don't think Georgetown is whiter, but you may have a point about wealth. When I was there, somebody had put up a poster quoting the university president saying something to the effect of, "Either we are all Notre Dame or none of us is." How is that for demanding blanket conformity? Within that framework, perhaps there is room for individuality, but the school spirit thing is depersonalizing. They also talked about how they were going to change the world through their faith. They had the missionary zeal and self-righteousness of crusaders. Why didn't they all just dye themselves blue and green? Having parietals and separate dorms for men and women made me feel it would be like high school all over again.

meanwhile the Jesuits had three goals: to establish highly disciplined schools, to propagate Catholic beliefs through missionary work, and to combat Protestantism. All jesuit grads are told to "light the world on fire". So not sure about missionaries at ND, but it's at the core of GU.

parietals are the jurisdiction of ResLife and you'll only get in trouble if someone complains. this almost never happens when you have a single (so upperclassman). and it almost never happens if you're an underclassman and your roommate likes you even a little. also, even if you're written up, nothing happens until 3rd infraction and I've never even heard of that in recent years.

I went to ND undergrad and Georgetown Law (for a year), but my 21st century experience was teaching two years at ND pre-pandemic.

And the Jesuits ran the Inquisition, but that was a while back. These days, they're more chill. At Georgetown, I didn't pick up on a repressive religious vibe.

One of the girls at ND told me parietals are much more strictly enforced for women than men, which is in line with the 1950s vibe I sensed there. And my visit was very much in the 21st century. Just the existence of parietals, even if they're not enforced, is overbearing

If ND is what you want, more power to you. I found it suffocating.

And the more of you out there who hate ND, the better for my kid who desperately wants to attend ND. She is a wholesome kid who is devout in her Catholic faith and would welcome rules like parietals. Access to a chapel and masses right in the residential hall...it doesn't get any better than that.

So you do you!! Go to GU or anywhere else for that matter and have all the sex you want in the middle of the night.

It's not just about sex. Notre Dame infantilizes its students with these rules. Women are more likely to be punished (usually by a talking to from a rector, a letter home, or having to write an essay) than men, who are usually let off with a wink and a nod. If you want a paternalistic and misogynistic high school environment, go for it. I think it's disrespectful to treat adults in this way, but, as you say, you do you (or let your daughter do her).

I liked having parietals. It wasn’t infantilism, it gave me a sense of control and security and privacy. I don’t find security rules disrespectful.

They can have visitors in the room until 2am on Friday and Saturday nights (midnight Sunday-Thursday). I am sure I would have been annoyed by this in college, but it doesn’t seem so bad now that I am 50. Basically, you can do whatever you want until 2am, just not sleep over and inconvenience your roommate by having an overnight guest.

This seems to me to be such a common sense non-issue for me that I think we may have had a similar rule when I was in college and I don't even remember. So I guess I wasn't traumatized.

There's a security element to this, not that it's the point of the rule. People who are not registered as a student in the dorm should not be in the dorm overnights.

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Anonymous wrote:DD applied to both ND and Georgetown early action. We really think she'll get into both and are already discussing the differences, the pros and cons. Any insights on the schools from people who have kids there now. Things besides academics as both are great in that regard. Thank you.

To share my completely subjective and emotional impressions:

I found Notre Dame stifling when I visited. All those rah-rah, white, wealthy, Catholic kids who've been boy or girl scouts and who are just so wholesome, self-satisfied, and assured of their places in society. Self-congratulatory and naive about their privilege as rich, white Christians. I preferred Georgetown. I thought the students, on balance, had more humility and creativity and less artless myopia, and I preferred the religious diversity. These are my purely personal takeaways. Others will no doubt see these schools differently. I didn't apply to ND, got into GU, and went to Northwestern.

Whatever you saw on a tour, you saw on a tour. I don't doubt it. But Georgetown is whiter and it's wealthier. It's wealthier because, ironically, the school is much poorer. The richer the school, the more generous the aid, the more economically diverse the class.

ND is more Catholic than Georgetown. True fact.

I mean, people, there are numbers on this. Not on how many boys scouts or how "humble" it is (although Georgetown has never struck me as especially humble), but the whiteness and the wealth of the student body. Facts. Numbers.

I don't think Georgetown is whiter, but you may have a point about wealth. When I was there, somebody had put up a poster quoting the university president saying something to the effect of, "Either we are all Notre Dame or none of us is." How is that for demanding blanket conformity? Within that framework, perhaps there is room for individuality, but the school spirit thing is depersonalizing. They also talked about how they were going to change the world through their faith. They had the missionary zeal and self-righteousness of crusaders. Why didn't they all just dye themselves blue and green? Having parietals and separate dorms for men and women made me feel it would be like high school all over again.

meanwhile the Jesuits had three goals: to establish highly disciplined schools, to propagate Catholic beliefs through missionary work, and to combat Protestantism. All jesuit grads are told to "light the world on fire". So not sure about missionaries at ND, but it's at the core of GU.

parietals are the jurisdiction of ResLife and you'll only get in trouble if someone complains. this almost never happens when you have a single (so upperclassman). and it almost never happens if you're an underclassman and your roommate likes you even a little. also, even if you're written up, nothing happens until 3rd infraction and I've never even heard of that in recent years.

I went to ND undergrad and Georgetown Law (for a year), but my 21st century experience was teaching two years at ND pre-pandemic.

And the Jesuits ran the Inquisition, but that was a while back. These days, they're more chill. At Georgetown, I didn't pick up on a repressive religious vibe.

One of the girls at ND told me parietals are much more strictly enforced for women than men, which is in line with the 1950s vibe I sensed there. And my visit was very much in the 21st century. Just the existence of parietals, even if they're not enforced, is overbearing

If ND is what you want, more power to you. I found it suffocating.

And the more of you out there who hate ND, the better for my kid who desperately wants to attend ND. She is a wholesome kid who is devout in her Catholic faith and would welcome rules like parietals. Access to a chapel and masses right in the residential hall...it doesn't get any better than that.

So you do you!! Go to GU or anywhere else for that matter and have all the sex you want in the middle of the night.

It's not just about sex. Notre Dame infantilizes its students with these rules. Women are more likely to be punished (usually by a talking to from a rector, a letter home, or having to write an essay) than men, who are usually let off with a wink and a nod. If you want a paternalistic and misogynistic high school environment, go for it. I think it's disrespectful to treat adults in this way, but, as you say, you do you (or let your daughter do her).

I liked having parietals. It wasn’t infantilism, it gave me a sense of control and security and privacy. I don’t find security rules disrespectful.

They can have visitors in the room until 2am on Friday and Saturday nights (midnight Sunday-Thursday). I am sure I would have been annoyed by this in college, but it doesn’t seem so bad now that I am 50. Basically, you can do whatever you want until 2am, just not sleep over and inconvenience your roommate by having an overnight guest.

This and keep in mind that in addition to the RAs, there is a rector and assistant rector in each residence hall.