Notre Dame reaffirms University’s commitment to legacy admissions after Supreme Court ruling

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[list]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legacy probablyy the most efficient way to build the singular, similar mindset of the next generation that ND seeks?

Efficiency doesn’t equal moral or ethical. Which is fine. It’s a choice.

There is nothing immoral or unethical about legacy admissions, despite the desperate efforts to portray them as such.

There is for an institution that purports to follow Christ's teachings.

How so? When you have to choose a small group from a large pool of qualified applicants, what in your opinion is the morally superior way to select a class?

Legacy mostly helps the wealthy. Christ doesn't teach to help the wealthy. If ND really wanted to follow Christ's teachings they would serve "the least of us", and lower their tuition rather than relying on legacy donations, which again, mostly helps the wealthy. I mean, Jesus Himself was not Catholic.

Instead, they have stated that keeping tradition is more important.

Catholics believe thatb Jesus founded the Catholic Church and Peter was the first Pope, but this is not a theology forum.

Jesus was a Jew, and Jesus did not find any "church". The first church was founded after Christ's death in Acts.

So, back to the thread topic. Jesus was not a Catholic. I suppose ND wouldn't have wanted him.

This may not be a religion forum, but ND claims to be a Catholic institution that follows Jesus' teachings.


Matthew 25:35-40 New King James Version (NKJV)

for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

No where in that verse does Jesus say to give Catholics a leg up before anyone else. The practice of legacy admissions by a Catholic institution that claims to follow Jesus' teachings is counter to Jesus' teachings.

I've already stated numerous times that ND could lower their tuition cost to help the less privileged such that they don't have to rely on legacy donors. But, ND apologists keep ignoring that part.

IMO, they need to stop pretending that they are a Catholic institution interested in following Jesus' teachings. Just admit out loud what we all know. Money first, then everything else.

I'll also leave you supposed Catholics to think about the verse regarding "a camel and eye of the needle" .

Again, this is not a theology forum. You believe whatever you want to believe.
You think you have the authority to interpret the Bible. That's fine, that's your belief.

I simply corrected on the facts of what Catholics believe. You don't need to agree.
I personally think there is no such thing as God. The Bible is mostly fiction, but this is not a religious forum.

My kid got a great aid package and is getting a great undergraduate education at Notre Dame.
I agree legacy should go away eventually from all schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[list]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legacy probablyy the most efficient way to build the singular, similar mindset of the next generation that ND seeks?

Efficiency doesn’t equal moral or ethical. Which is fine. It’s a choice.

There is nothing immoral or unethical about legacy admissions, despite the desperate efforts to portray them as such.

There is for an institution that purports to follow Christ's teachings.

How so? When you have to choose a small group from a large pool of qualified applicants, what in your opinion is the morally superior way to select a class?

Legacy mostly helps the wealthy. Christ doesn't teach to help the wealthy. If ND really wanted to follow Christ's teachings they would serve "the least of us", and lower their tuition rather than relying on legacy donations, which again, mostly helps the wealthy. I mean, Jesus Himself was not Catholic.

Instead, they have stated that keeping tradition is more important.

Catholics believe thatb Jesus founded the Catholic Church and Peter was the first Pope, but this is not a theology forum.

Jesus was a Jew, and Jesus did not find any "church". The first church was founded after Christ's death in Acts.

So, back to the thread topic. Jesus was not a Catholic. I suppose ND wouldn't have wanted him.

This may not be a religion forum, but ND claims to be a Catholic institution that follows Jesus' teachings.


Matthew 25:35-40 New King James Version (NKJV)

for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

No where in that verse does Jesus say to give Catholics a leg up before anyone else. The practice of legacy admissions by a Catholic institution that claims to follow Jesus' teachings is counter to Jesus' teachings.

I've already stated numerous times that ND could lower their tuition cost to help the less privileged such that they don't have to rely on legacy donors. But, ND apologists keep ignoring that part.

IMO, they need to stop pretending that they are a Catholic institution interested in following Jesus' teachings. Just admit out loud what we all know. Money first, then everything else.

I'll also leave you supposed Catholics to think about the verse regarding "a camel and eye of the needle" .

Come on, this post is ridiculous. Jesus wouldn't be in favor of elite schools period. In the US, these schools have high barriers to entry achievement wise and essentially refuse to educate any "everyday people" (whether it is Notre Dame or Georgetown that are Catholic, or Harvard or Stanford which are not).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[list]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legacy probablyy the most efficient way to build the singular, similar mindset of the next generation that ND seeks?

Efficiency doesn’t equal moral or ethical. Which is fine. It’s a choice.

There is nothing immoral or unethical about legacy admissions, despite the desperate efforts to portray them as such.

There is for an institution that purports to follow Christ's teachings.

How so? When you have to choose a small group from a large pool of qualified applicants, what in your opinion is the morally superior way to select a class?

Legacy mostly helps the wealthy. Christ doesn't teach to help the wealthy. If ND really wanted to follow Christ's teachings they would serve "the least of us", and lower their tuition rather than relying on legacy donations, which again, mostly helps the wealthy. I mean, Jesus Himself was not Catholic.

Instead, they have stated that keeping tradition is more important.

Catholics believe thatb Jesus founded the Catholic Church and Peter was the first Pope, but this is not a theology forum.

Jesus was a Jew, and Jesus did not find any "church". The first church was founded after Christ's death in Acts.

So, back to the thread topic. Jesus was not a Catholic. I suppose ND wouldn't have wanted him.

This may not be a religion forum, but ND claims to be a Catholic institution that follows Jesus' teachings.


Matthew 25:35-40 New King James Version (NKJV)

for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

No where in that verse does Jesus say to give Catholics a leg up before anyone else. The practice of legacy admissions by a Catholic institution that claims to follow Jesus' teachings is counter to Jesus' teachings.

I've already stated numerous times that ND could lower their tuition cost to help the less privileged such that they don't have to rely on legacy donors. But, ND apologists keep ignoring that part.

IMO, they need to stop pretending that they are a Catholic institution interested in following Jesus' teachings. Just admit out loud what we all know. Money first, then everything else.

I'll also leave you supposed Catholics to think about the verse regarding "a camel and eye of the needle" .

Again, this is not a theology forum. You believe whatever you want to believe.
You think you have the authority to interpret the Bible. That's fine, that's your belief.

I simply corrected on the facts of what Catholics believe. You don't need to agree.
I personally think there is no such thing as God. The Bible is mostly fiction, but this is not a religious forum.

My kid got a great aid package and is getting a great undergraduate education at Notre Dame.
I agree legacy should go away eventually from all schools.

By the way college is optional luxury service not food

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legacy probablyy the most efficient way to build the singular, similar mindset of the next generation that ND seeks?

Efficiency doesn’t equal moral or ethical. Which is fine. It’s a choice.

There is nothing immoral or unethical about legacy admissions, despite the desperate efforts to portray them as such.

There is for an institution that purports to follow Christ's teachings.

How so? When you have to choose a small group from a large pool of qualified applicants, what in your opinion is the morally superior way to select a class?

Not using legacy would be a start.

Ok, what would be a start? Since you have a direct line to Christ and know what he wants, tell us what the process should look like. Be very specific.

Well I already said a start would be to stop legacy admissions. Make tuition free. Two steps that would help.

Make tuition free!? Where will this money come from? How do we decide who is worthy of this free tuition? Again be specific because I don't think you have the foggiest idea. But go on.... enlighten us.

From the $20 billion endowment or the earnings off of it. Interesting that you look to a non catholic to assist you in fulfilling your catholic duties.

I think you misunderstand the endowment, how it is managed, and the ways in which a lot of it can be used.

DP.. then, explain how much of the endowment is used for what purpose, specifically. The amount and the specific use.

Then, we can tell whether they have enough in their endowment to either make the tuition free or lower the tuition so that they don't have to rely on rich people for money.

Schools won't exactly spell it out but Notre Dame's "endowment is actually a collection of over 7,400 individual funds, most of which carry such donor restrictions."
The endowment did provide $145 million+ in need based aid to undergrads in 21-22.

https://www.nd.edu/stories/sustaining-impact/#:~:text=How%20the%20Endowment%20Works,purpose%20of%20the%20donor%27s%20choosing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legacy probablyy the most efficient way to build the singular, similar mindset of the next generation that ND seeks?

Efficiency doesn’t equal moral or ethical. Which is fine. It’s a choice.

There is nothing immoral or unethical about legacy admissions, despite the desperate efforts to portray them as such.

There is for an institution that purports to follow Christ's teachings.

How so? When you have to choose a small group from a large pool of qualified applicants, what in your opinion is the morally superior way to select a class?

Not using legacy would be a start.

Ok, what would be a start? Since you have a direct line to Christ and know what he wants, tell us what the process should look like. Be very specific.

Well I already said a start would be to stop legacy admissions. Make tuition free. Two steps that would help.

Make tuition free!? Where will this money come from? How do we decide who is worthy of this free tuition? Again be specific because I don't think you have the foggiest idea. But go on.... enlighten us.

From the $20 billion endowment or the earnings off of it. Interesting that you look to a non catholic to assist you in fulfilling your catholic duties.

I think you misunderstand the endowment, how it is managed, and the ways in which a lot of it can be used.

DP.. then, explain how much of the endowment is used for what purpose, specifically. The amount and the specific use.

Then, we can tell whether they have enough in their endowment to either make the tuition free or lower the tuition so that they don't have to rely on rich people for money.

Schools won't exactly spell it out but Notre Dame's "endowment is actually a collection of over 7,400 individual funds, most of which carry such donor restrictions."
The endowment did provide $145 million+ in need based aid to undergrads in 21-22.

https://www.nd.edu/stories/sustaining-impact/#:~:text=How%20the%20Endowment%20Works,purpose%20of%20the%20donor%27s%20choosing.

So, if they lowered the tuition, then they wouldn't need so much aid, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[list]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legacy probablyy the most efficient way to build the singular, similar mindset of the next generation that ND seeks?

Efficiency doesn’t equal moral or ethical. Which is fine. It’s a choice.

There is nothing immoral or unethical about legacy admissions, despite the desperate efforts to portray them as such.

There is for an institution that purports to follow Christ's teachings.

How so? When you have to choose a small group from a large pool of qualified applicants, what in your opinion is the morally superior way to select a class?

Legacy mostly helps the wealthy. Christ doesn't teach to help the wealthy. If ND really wanted to follow Christ's teachings they would serve "the least of us", and lower their tuition rather than relying on legacy donations, which again, mostly helps the wealthy. I mean, Jesus Himself was not Catholic.

Instead, they have stated that keeping tradition is more important.

Catholics believe thatb Jesus founded the Catholic Church and Peter was the first Pope, but this is not a theology forum.

Jesus was a Jew, and Jesus did not find any "church". The first church was founded after Christ's death in Acts.

So, back to the thread topic. Jesus was not a Catholic. I suppose ND wouldn't have wanted him.

This may not be a religion forum, but ND claims to be a Catholic institution that follows Jesus' teachings.


Matthew 25:35-40 New King James Version (NKJV)

for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

No where in that verse does Jesus say to give Catholics a leg up before anyone else. The practice of legacy admissions by a Catholic institution that claims to follow Jesus' teachings is counter to Jesus' teachings.

I've already stated numerous times that ND could lower their tuition cost to help the less privileged such that they don't have to rely on legacy donors. But, ND apologists keep ignoring that part.

IMO, they need to stop pretending that they are a Catholic institution interested in following Jesus' teachings. Just admit out loud what we all know. Money first, then everything else.

I'll also leave you supposed Catholics to think about the verse regarding "a camel and eye of the needle" .

Again, this is not a theology forum. You believe whatever you want to believe.
You think you have the authority to interpret the Bible. That's fine, that's your belief.

I simply corrected on the facts of what Catholics believe. You don't need to agree.
I personally think there is no such thing as God. The Bible is mostly fiction, but this is not a religious forum.

My kid got a great aid package and is getting a great undergraduate education at Notre Dame.
I agree legacy should go away eventually from all schools.

Well, at least we agree on that.

I don't have "authority" on how to interpret the Bible. I just quoted it. And those Bible verses speak for themselves. You don't need a degree in theology to understand what those verses mean.

Interesting, that you, a non Catholic, non believer, would chime in on what Catholics believe, but not the actual Catholics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legacy probablyy the most efficient way to build the singular, similar mindset of the next generation that ND seeks?

Efficiency doesn’t equal moral or ethical. Which is fine. It’s a choice.

There is nothing immoral or unethical about legacy admissions, despite the desperate efforts to portray them as such.

There is for an institution that purports to follow Christ's teachings.

How so? When you have to choose a small group from a large pool of qualified applicants, what in your opinion is the morally superior way to select a class?

Not using legacy would be a start.

Ok, what would be a start? Since you have a direct line to Christ and know what he wants, tell us what the process should look like. Be very specific.

Well I already said a start would be to stop legacy admissions. Make tuition free. Two steps that would help.

Make tuition free!? Where will this money come from? How do we decide who is worthy of this free tuition? Again be specific because I don't think you have the foggiest idea. But go on.... enlighten us.

From the $20 billion endowment or the earnings off of it. Interesting that you look to a non catholic to assist you in fulfilling your catholic duties.

I think you misunderstand the endowment, how it is managed, and the ways in which a lot of it can be used.

DP.. then, explain how much of the endowment is used for what purpose, specifically. The amount and the specific use.

Then, we can tell whether they have enough in their endowment to either make the tuition free or lower the tuition so that they don't have to rely on rich people for money.

Schools won't exactly spell it out but Notre Dame's "endowment is actually a collection of over 7,400 individual funds, most of which carry such donor restrictions."
The endowment did provide $145 million+ in need based aid to undergrads in 21-22.

https://www.nd.edu/stories/sustaining-impact/#:~:text=How%20the%20Endowment%20Works,purpose%20of%20the%20donor%27s%20choosing.

So, if they lowered the tuition, then they wouldn't need so much aid, right?

I also agree on lowering tuition. Middle class are being penalized and punished.
However none of these are unique to ND.

[Anonymous]

You have to admit it has been a nice run for the Catholics beyond just the educational prestige gained by affiliated universities like Notre Dame and Georgetown. All three branches of government are heavily influenced by Catholics. We've come a long way from 100 years ago (or even 50 years ago).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legacy probablyy the most efficient way to build the singular, similar mindset of the next generation that ND seeks?

Efficiency doesn’t equal moral or ethical. Which is fine. It’s a choice.

There is nothing immoral or unethical about legacy admissions, despite the desperate efforts to portray them as such.

There is for an institution that purports to follow Christ's teachings.

How so? When you have to choose a small group from a large pool of qualified applicants, what in your opinion is the morally superior way to select a class?

Not using legacy would be a start.

Ok, what would be a start? Since you have a direct line to Christ and know what he wants, tell us what the process should look like. Be very specific.

Well I already said a start would be to stop legacy admissions. Make tuition free. Two steps that would help.

Make tuition free!? Where will this money come from? How do we decide who is worthy of this free tuition? Again be specific because I don't think you have the foggiest idea. But go on.... enlighten us.

From the $20 billion endowment or the earnings off of it. Interesting that you look to a non catholic to assist you in fulfilling your catholic duties.

I think you misunderstand the endowment, how it is managed, and the ways in which a lot of it can be used.

DP.. then, explain how much of the endowment is used for what purpose, specifically. The amount and the specific use.

Then, we can tell whether they have enough in their endowment to either make the tuition free or lower the tuition so that they don't have to rely on rich people for money.

Schools won't exactly spell it out but Notre Dame's "endowment is actually a collection of over 7,400 individual funds, most of which carry such donor restrictions."
The endowment did provide $145 million+ in need based aid to undergrads in 21-22.

https://www.nd.edu/stories/sustaining-impact/#:~:text=How%20the%20Endowment%20Works,purpose%20of%20the%20donor%27s%20choosing.

So, if they lowered the tuition, then they wouldn't need so much aid, right?

I also agree on lowering tuition. Middle class are being penalized and punished.
However none of these are unique to ND.

I don't want to sound too crass but why do schools want to attract the middle class (from the school's perspective)?
They can get the same quality of student elsewhere where they are giving much more of an opportunity for social mobility or attracting full-tuition money and more $$ that allows them to improve the education and research they conduct overall. I agree it is unfortunate for some people but I can actually understand the thought process from a school's perspective. True middle class and upper middle class families still have a great opportunity to send kids to flagship state schools and elsewhere that are more affordable based on need or merit. What I've liked seeing is that lower middle class families are now receiving great aid packages from top schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[list]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legacy probablyy the most efficient way to build the singular, similar mindset of the next generation that ND seeks?

Efficiency doesn’t equal moral or ethical. Which is fine. It’s a choice.

There is nothing immoral or unethical about legacy admissions, despite the desperate efforts to portray them as such.

There is for an institution that purports to follow Christ's teachings.

How so? When you have to choose a small group from a large pool of qualified applicants, what in your opinion is the morally superior way to select a class?

Legacy mostly helps the wealthy. Christ doesn't teach to help the wealthy. If ND really wanted to follow Christ's teachings they would serve "the least of us", and lower their tuition rather than relying on legacy donations, which again, mostly helps the wealthy. I mean, Jesus Himself was not Catholic.

Instead, they have stated that keeping tradition is more important.

Catholics believe thatb Jesus founded the Catholic Church and Peter was the first Pope, but this is not a theology forum.

Jesus was a Jew, and Jesus did not find any "church". The first church was founded after Christ's death in Acts.

So, back to the thread topic. Jesus was not a Catholic. I suppose ND wouldn't have wanted him.

This may not be a religion forum, but ND claims to be a Catholic institution that follows Jesus' teachings.


Matthew 25:35-40 New King James Version (NKJV)

for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

No where in that verse does Jesus say to give Catholics a leg up before anyone else. The practice of legacy admissions by a Catholic institution that claims to follow Jesus' teachings is counter to Jesus' teachings.

I've already stated numerous times that ND could lower their tuition cost to help the less privileged such that they don't have to rely on legacy donors. But, ND apologists keep ignoring that part.

IMO, they need to stop pretending that they are a Catholic institution interested in following Jesus' teachings. Just admit out loud what we all know. Money first, then everything else.

I'll also leave you supposed Catholics to think about the verse regarding "a camel and eye of the needle" .

Again, this is not a theology forum. You believe whatever you want to believe.
You think you have the authority to interpret the Bible. That's fine, that's your belief.

I simply corrected on the facts of what Catholics believe. You don't need to agree.
I personally think there is no such thing as God. The Bible is mostly fiction, but this is not a religious forum.

My kid got a great aid package and is getting a great undergraduate education at Notre Dame.
I agree legacy should go away eventually from all schools.

Well, at least we agree on that.

I don't have "authority" on how to interpret the Bible. I just quoted it. And those Bible verses speak for themselves. You don't need a degree in theology to understand what those verses mean.

Interesting, that you, a non Catholic, non believer, would chime in on what Catholics believe, but not the actual Catholics.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2016&version=KJV
KJV, Matthew 16:18

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church"
Speaking of just quoting and Bible verses speak for themselves, Jesus built his church.

I was baptized Catholic. I know Catholic teachings, but I'm more toward an atheist.
My kid goes to ND.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legacy probablyy the most efficient way to build the singular, similar mindset of the next generation that ND seeks?

Efficiency doesn’t equal moral or ethical. Which is fine. It’s a choice.

There is nothing immoral or unethical about legacy admissions, despite the desperate efforts to portray them as such.

There is for an institution that purports to follow Christ's teachings.

How so? When you have to choose a small group from a large pool of qualified applicants, what in your opinion is the morally superior way to select a class?

Not using legacy would be a start.

Ok, what would be a start? Since you have a direct line to Christ and know what he wants, tell us what the process should look like. Be very specific.

Well I already said a start would be to stop legacy admissions. Make tuition free. Two steps that would help.

Make tuition free!? Where will this money come from? How do we decide who is worthy of this free tuition? Again be specific because I don't think you have the foggiest idea. But go on.... enlighten us.

From the $20 billion endowment or the earnings off of it. Interesting that you look to a non catholic to assist you in fulfilling your catholic duties.

I think you misunderstand the endowment, how it is managed, and the ways in which a lot of it can be used.

DP.. then, explain how much of the endowment is used for what purpose, specifically. The amount and the specific use.

Then, we can tell whether they have enough in their endowment to either make the tuition free or lower the tuition so that they don't have to rely on rich people for money.

Schools won't exactly spell it out but Notre Dame's "endowment is actually a collection of over 7,400 individual funds, most of which carry such donor restrictions."
The endowment did provide $145 million+ in need based aid to undergrads in 21-22.

https://www.nd.edu/stories/sustaining-impact/#:~:text=How%20the%20Endowment%20Works,purpose%20of%20the%20donor%27s%20choosing.

So, if they lowered the tuition, then they wouldn't need so much aid, right?

I also agree on lowering tuition. Middle class are being penalized and punished.
However none of these are unique to ND.

I don't want to sound too crass but why do schools want to attract the middle class (from the school's perspective)?
They can get the same quality of student elsewhere where they are giving much more of an opportunity for social mobility or attracting full-tuition money and more $$ that allows them to improve the education and research they conduct overall. I agree it is unfortunate for some people but I can actually understand the thought process from a school's perspective. True middle class and upper middle class families still have a great opportunity to send kids to flagship state schools and elsewhere that are more affordable based on need or merit. What I've liked seeing is that lower middle class families are now receiving great aid packages from top schools.

Almost all the great schools, like Notre Dame, are also need blind in admissions, so it isn't as though they are actively keeping the middle class out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legacy probablyy the most efficient way to build the singular, similar mindset of the next generation that ND seeks?

Efficiency doesn’t equal moral or ethical. Which is fine. It’s a choice.

There is nothing immoral or unethical about legacy admissions, despite the desperate efforts to portray them as such.

There is for an institution that purports to follow Christ's teachings.

How so? When you have to choose a small group from a large pool of qualified applicants, what in your opinion is the morally superior way to select a class?

Not using legacy would be a start.

Ok, what would be a start? Since you have a direct line to Christ and know what he wants, tell us what the process should look like. Be very specific.

Well I already said a start would be to stop legacy admissions. Make tuition free. Two steps that would help.

Make tuition free!? Where will this money come from? How do we decide who is worthy of this free tuition? Again be specific because I don't think you have the foggiest idea. But go on.... enlighten us.

From the $20 billion endowment or the earnings off of it. Interesting that you look to a non catholic to assist you in fulfilling your catholic duties.

I think you misunderstand the endowment, how it is managed, and the ways in which a lot of it can be used.

DP.. then, explain how much of the endowment is used for what purpose, specifically. The amount and the specific use.

Then, we can tell whether they have enough in their endowment to either make the tuition free or lower the tuition so that they don't have to rely on rich people for money.

Schools won't exactly spell it out but Notre Dame's "endowment is actually a collection of over 7,400 individual funds, most of which carry such donor restrictions."
The endowment did provide $145 million+ in need based aid to undergrads in 21-22.

https://www.nd.edu/stories/sustaining-impact/#:~:text=How%20the%20Endowment%20Works,purpose%20of%20the%20donor%27s%20choosing.

So, if they lowered the tuition, then they wouldn't need so much aid, right?

I also agree on lowering tuition. Middle class are being penalized and punished.
However none of these are unique to ND.

I don't want to sound too crass but why do schools want to attract the middle class (from the school's perspective)?
They can get the same quality of student elsewhere where they are giving much more of an opportunity for social mobility or attracting full-tuition money and more $$ that allows them to improve the education and research they conduct overall. I agree it is unfortunate for some people but I can actually understand the thought process from a school's perspective. True middle class and upper middle class families still have a great opportunity to send kids to flagship state schools and elsewhere that are more affordable based on need or merit. What I've liked seeing is that lower middle class families are now receiving great aid packages from top schools.

LOL so schools want either poor people and give them deep discount or rich people for full high price.

Why not reasonable price for hard working middle class that is the backbone of the society and the country.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Legacy probablyy the most efficient way to build the singular, similar mindset of the next generation that ND seeks?

Efficiency doesn’t equal moral or ethical. Which is fine. It’s a choice.

There is nothing immoral or unethical about legacy admissions, despite the desperate efforts to portray them as such.

There is for an institution that purports to follow Christ's teachings.

How so? When you have to choose a small group from a large pool of qualified applicants, what in your opinion is the morally superior way to select a class?

Not using legacy would be a start.

Ok, what would be a start? Since you have a direct line to Christ and know what he wants, tell us what the process should look like. Be very specific.

Well I already said a start would be to stop legacy admissions. Make tuition free. Two steps that would help.

Make tuition free!? Where will this money come from? How do we decide who is worthy of this free tuition? Again be specific because I don't think you have the foggiest idea. But go on.... enlighten us.

From the $20 billion endowment or the earnings off of it. Interesting that you look to a non catholic to assist you in fulfilling your catholic duties.

I think you misunderstand the endowment, how it is managed, and the ways in which a lot of it can be used.

DP.. then, explain how much of the endowment is used for what purpose, specifically. The amount and the specific use.

Then, we can tell whether they have enough in their endowment to either make the tuition free or lower the tuition so that they don't have to rely on rich people for money.

Schools won't exactly spell it out but Notre Dame's "endowment is actually a collection of over 7,400 individual funds, most of which carry such donor restrictions."
The endowment did provide $145 million+ in need based aid to undergrads in 21-22.

https://www.nd.edu/stories/sustaining-impact/#:~:text=How%20the%20Endowment%20Works,purpose%20of%20the%20donor%27s%20choosing.

So, if they lowered the tuition, then they wouldn't need so much aid, right?

I also agree on lowering tuition. Middle class are being penalized and punished.
However none of these are unique to ND.

Certainly, but this thread is about ND.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legacy probablyy the most efficient way to build the singular, similar mindset of the next generation that ND seeks?

Efficiency doesn’t equal moral or ethical. Which is fine. It’s a choice.

There is nothing immoral or unethical about legacy admissions, despite the desperate efforts to portray them as such.

There is for an institution that purports to follow Christ's teachings.

How so? When you have to choose a small group from a large pool of qualified applicants, what in your opinion is the morally superior way to select a class?

Not using legacy would be a start.

Ok, what would be a start? Since you have a direct line to Christ and know what he wants, tell us what the process should look like. Be very specific.

Well I already said a start would be to stop legacy admissions. Make tuition free. Two steps that would help.

Make tuition free!? Where will this money come from? How do we decide who is worthy of this free tuition? Again be specific because I don't think you have the foggiest idea. But go on.... enlighten us.

From the $20 billion endowment or the earnings off of it. Interesting that you look to a non catholic to assist you in fulfilling your catholic duties.

I think you misunderstand the endowment, how it is managed, and the ways in which a lot of it can be used.

DP.. then, explain how much of the endowment is used for what purpose, specifically. The amount and the specific use.

Then, we can tell whether they have enough in their endowment to either make the tuition free or lower the tuition so that they don't have to rely on rich people for money.

Schools won't exactly spell it out but Notre Dame's "endowment is actually a collection of over 7,400 individual funds, most of which carry such donor restrictions."
The endowment did provide $145 million+ in need based aid to undergrads in 21-22.

https://www.nd.edu/stories/sustaining-impact/#:~:text=How%20the%20Endowment%20Works,purpose%20of%20the%20donor%27s%20choosing.

So, if they lowered the tuition, then they wouldn't need so much aid, right?

I also agree on lowering tuition. Middle class are being penalized and punished.
However none of these are unique to ND.

Certainly, but this thread is about ND.

Sure, but what this thread talk about(legacy & tuition) is not unique to ND.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Legacy probablyy the most efficient way to build the singular, similar mindset of the next generation that ND seeks?

Efficiency doesn’t equal moral or ethical. Which is fine. It’s a choice.

There is nothing immoral or unethical about legacy admissions, despite the desperate efforts to portray them as such.

There is for an institution that purports to follow Christ's teachings.

How so? When you have to choose a small group from a large pool of qualified applicants, what in your opinion is the morally superior way to select a class?

Legacy mostly helps the wealthy. Christ doesn't teach to help the wealthy. If ND really wanted to follow Christ's teachings they would serve "the least of us", and lower their tuition rather than relying on legacy donations, which again, mostly helps the wealthy. I mean, Jesus Himself was not Catholic.

Instead, they have stated that keeping tradition is more important.

Catholics believe thatb Jesus founded the Catholic Church and Peter was the first Pope, but this is not a theology forum.

Jesus was a Jew, and Jesus did not find any "church". The first church was founded after Christ's death in Acts.

So, back to the thread topic. Jesus was not a Catholic. I suppose ND wouldn't have wanted him.

This may not be a religion forum, but ND claims to be a Catholic institution that follows Jesus' teachings.


Matthew 25:35-40 New King James Version (NKJV)

for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

No where in that verse does Jesus say to give Catholics a leg up before anyone else. The practice of legacy admissions by a Catholic institution that claims to follow Jesus' teachings is counter to Jesus' teachings.

I've already stated numerous times that ND could lower their tuition cost to help the less privileged such that they don't have to rely on legacy donors. But, ND apologists keep ignoring that part.

IMO, they need to stop pretending that they are a Catholic institution interested in following Jesus' teachings. Just admit out loud what we all know. Money first, then everything else.

I'll also leave you supposed Catholics to think about the verse regarding "a camel and eye of the needle" .

Again, this is not a theology forum. You believe whatever you want to believe.
You think you have the authority to interpret the Bible. That's fine, that's your belief.

I simply corrected on the facts of what Catholics believe. You don't need to agree.
I personally think there is no such thing as God. The Bible is mostly fiction, but this is not a religious forum.

My kid got a great aid package and is getting a great undergraduate education at Notre Dame.
I agree legacy should go away eventually from all schools.

Well, at least we agree on that.

I don't have "authority" on how to interpret the Bible. I just quoted it. And those Bible verses speak for themselves. You don't need a degree in theology to understand what those verses mean.

Interesting, that you, a non Catholic, non believer, would chime in on what Catholics believe, but not the actual Catholics.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2016&version=KJV
KJV, Matthew 16:18

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church"
Speaking of just quoting and Bible verses speak for themselves, Jesus built his church.

I was baptized Catholic. I know Catholic teachings, but I'm more toward an atheist.
My kid goes to ND.

Yes, and in Acts, that church became realized through the Holy Spirit, AFTER Jesus died.