Glad MCPS is getting sued

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guess what happens when you teach kids about kids whose families look different than theirs? You raise kind, inclusive, accepting kids. Every time I read a post from someone who has a problem with the books, I think they’re unkind and bigoted and deeply insecure and probably uneducated. You’re on the wrong side of history and you’re certainly not representing any religion I’d want to be part of. But go ahead and spend your money litigating.

+1

NP here. I think many people in favor of book banning or being able to opt out of books featuring people in the LGBTQ+ community are missing the real point of these books. They aren't trying to teach your kids that trans people exist. They are trying to teach your kids to understand their peers that are in class with them. You can't ban them or erase their existence, as much as someone might want to.

This is public school. MCPS is full of a wonderful diversity of people. You might not like kids of a certain religion or race or culture or sexual orientation or gender expression or ... or ... or ... But as long as you are sending your kids to public school they are going to be interacting with other children you may not approve of. It is MCPS' job to make school a welcoming place for all students, and part of that is teaching all students to be welcoming to all. And that is why books representing the diversity of our students in every way belong in the classroom and why the school shouldn't allow parents to opt out their kids from reading them.

So do you think kids need books on Christianity and Islam in elementary school so that they can understand the kids in the class whose families worship differently?

Guess what? MCPS also has books with Christian characters and with Muslim characters (and with characters of other religions, and with characters of no religion) in elementary school!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some of these books are problematic and I can understand why parents want to opt-out. I think MCPS has a good chance of losing based on freedom of religion grounds.

My daughter was forced to read a Boy Named Penelope and we don't agree with the viewpoints expressed in that book. I think it's dangerous for MCPS to take a stance on gender theory. None of this stuff is settled and we are very much in the throes of a societal debate about it, so people acting like people who disagree are neanderthals are wrong. There's lots of room for shades of gray here, but the activists won't allow it.

I think they are opting for the inclusivity of ALL of their students. The religious right doesn't get to decide for everyone any more and they are having a hissy fit about it.

They are not opting for the inclusivity of ALL of their students because Muslim parents are TELLING you these books and teachings about LGBTQ sexual norms and family structures VIOLATE their faith. They're not the only ones who this applies to.

You can't say you're inclusive for all when a significant chunk of students, who are Muslim or more conservative Christian, tell you this violates their faith. You're choosing to offend some to please others. And that's fine. But that's NOT inclusive and is the opposite of that.

I'm going to the church of the spaghetti monster and stupidity greatly offends me. I think we should have it banned. Does anyone want to join me in the class action against stupidity?

1. Get your church recognized as a church

2. File a lawsuit and try your luck

1. That is a church

2. They are both very litigious and very successful in their litigation.

Then may the best church win.

HOw about we keep religion out of schools altogether? Instill those values at home if you wish, but I don't care what religious sensibilities the curriculum is offending.

I think we could all get behind that if you would admit that your efforts to promote certain social and environmental agendas were also a religion (see definition of "dogma").

What you view as "promoting as certain social and environmental agendas" the rest of us view as acknowledging that these kids exists, allowing them to exist and including them instead of stuffing our head in the sand and hiding behind religion in order to bully these kids into depression and suicide. Someone's mare existence is not "dogma."

Gay and trans kids don't exist. Kids haven't gone through puberty and don't know who they are attracted to. Understanding your gender is a developmental step that most grasp at much earlier ages. Apparently some are either delayed or have parents with Munchausen by Proxy. In either case, they need help to escape either their own delusion or their parent's, not celebration.

Such a moron. Just for a start, puberty and attraction have nothing to do with being gender dysphoric.

Wow. Did someone really post that? Does an adult really believe that? In this area too? That LGBTQ+ kids don't exist! Holy crap. This is why we need legislation. For once, I am proud of MCPS for not letting people opt out. It's not your right to erase someone else's existence just because of your 'beliefs'. Your rights never ever get to supersede the fact that other humans exist and may be different than you.

I believe their point was that prepubertal children don’t have sexual preferences because they haven’t developed sexual interest. You can’t be sexually attracted to the opposite sex until you experience sexual attraction.

That’s BS. I had a super crush on a boy named Marc in kindergarten. Did I understand it? Did I want to do anything with him???? No!!!!! But I really liked him a lot! Gtfo of here. Gay people exist. They love and have heartbreak just the same. Nothing nefarious. Maybe you are the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guess what happens when you teach kids about kids whose families look different than theirs? You raise kind, inclusive, accepting kids. Every time I read a post from someone who has a problem with the books, I think they’re unkind and bigoted and deeply insecure and probably uneducated. You’re on the wrong side of history and you’re certainly not representing any religion I’d want to be part of. But go ahead and spend your money litigating.

+1

So what books make their Christian and Muslim identities the sole focus of the story?

NP here. I think many people in favor of book banning or being able to opt out of books featuring people in the LGBTQ+ community are missing the real point of these books. They aren't trying to teach your kids that trans people exist. They are trying to teach your kids to understand their peers that are in class with them. You can't ban them or erase their existence, as much as someone might want to.

This is public school. MCPS is full of a wonderful diversity of people. You might not like kids of a certain religion or race or culture or sexual orientation or gender expression or ... or ... or ... But as long as you are sending your kids to public school they are going to be interacting with other children you may not approve of. It is MCPS' job to make school a welcoming place for all students, and part of that is teaching all students to be welcoming to all. And that is why books representing the diversity of our students in every way belong in the classroom and why the school shouldn't allow parents to opt out their kids from reading them.

So do you think kids need books on Christianity and Islam in elementary school so that they can understand the kids in the class whose families worship differently?

Guess what? MCPS also has books with Christian characters and with Muslim characters (and with characters of other religions, and with characters of no religion) in elementary school!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guess what happens when you teach kids about kids whose families look different than theirs? You raise kind, inclusive, accepting kids. Every time I read a post from someone who has a problem with the books, I think they’re unkind and bigoted and deeply insecure and probably uneducated. You’re on the wrong side of history and you’re certainly not representing any religion I’d want to be part of. But go ahead and spend your money litigating.

+1

NP here. I think many people in favor of book banning or being able to opt out of books featuring people in the LGBTQ+ community are missing the real point of these books. They aren't trying to teach your kids that trans people exist. They are trying to teach your kids to understand their peers that are in class with them. You can't ban them or erase their existence, as much as someone might want to.

This is public school. MCPS is full of a wonderful diversity of people. You might not like kids of a certain religion or race or culture or sexual orientation or gender expression or ... or ... or ... But as long as you are sending your kids to public school they are going to be interacting with other children you may not approve of. It is MCPS' job to make school a welcoming place for all students, and part of that is teaching all students to be welcoming to all. And that is why books representing the diversity of our students in every way belong in the classroom and why the school shouldn't allow parents to opt out their kids from reading them.

So do you think kids need books on Christianity and Islam in elementary school so that they can understand the kids in the class whose families worship differently?

Guess what? MCPS also has books with Christian characters and with Muslim characters (and with characters of other religions, and with characters of no religion) in elementary school!

I grew up in a non-mainstream Christian sect that absolutely would have objected to books with Muslim characters. Heck, they thought Catholics were devil worshipers.

That's the problem with lawsuits like the one these folks filed, and the reason why it will fail. You cannot open the door to this sort of thing, because *someone* objects to *everything.*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
We've done away with all things Halloween for elementary children. Tons of families associate it with demonic things and it doesn't align with their religions and values. MCPS made it the autumn festival or harvest or whatever to make it inclusive and no more costumes. We adapted and decided that those who celebrate Halloween can do so after school. We do not make the kids who do not celebrate feel irrational, less than or that something is wrong with them; we just do not spend time on it in school.

Tons of families have issues with this LGBTQIA affirming curriculum for a variety of reasons--religious, feel it is not age appropriate, much of it is still being debated and understood....why are these families viewed as irrational, intolerant or less than? Pride parade away, change your gender, discuss ad nauseam how the inside doesn't match your outside....but do it outside of school.

+100

No need to force LGBTQIA affirming curriculum on everyone.

And by "affirming", you mean "acknowledging the existence of".

Do you put idea of gender change in head of your 5 years old? It's just madness to expect all parents wanting to discuss gender change or inside not matching outside with their 5 years old.

No 5 years old is going to think about gender change unless parents themselves put this idea in their head and now the same parents want all 5 years old to hear this.

I neither care about any religion or LGBTQ agenda.

Nobody is requiring you to discuss gender change with your five-year-old. You don't have to worry about that. You can put your mind at ease.

Not the PP, but assuming you are very familiar with it.

How does 5 years old gets exposed to gender change. I mean how do they even start thinking about it. Is it parents putting this idea in kid's head? I am just curious.

Little kids are pretty clear about their preferences about themselves, including whether they are boys or girls. As soon as kids start to dress themselves they start insisting on wearing certain things. We have family friends whose 2nd son starting insisting at age 2 that they were a girl. Wanted to buy dresses at the store. Wanted "girl" toys. Wouldn't let their hair get cut. Wanted to take dance and gymnastics. The family saw a child psychologist early on and by 5 yrs old decided to let her go to K as a girl. The only "gender affirming care" she received prior to puberty was being allow to dress in girl clothes, have long hair, and have "girly" hobbies. I think this type of story is not uncommon for families with transgendered children.

Honestly, it is really adults who make it such a big deal. From the kids' perspective, they just want to be themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
We've done away with all things Halloween for elementary children. Tons of families associate it with demonic things and it doesn't align with their religions and values. MCPS made it the autumn festival or harvest or whatever to make it inclusive and no more costumes. We adapted and decided that those who celebrate Halloween can do so after school. We do not make the kids who do not celebrate feel irrational, less than or that something is wrong with them; we just do not spend time on it in school.

Tons of families have issues with this LGBTQIA affirming curriculum for a variety of reasons--religious, feel it is not age appropriate, much of it is still being debated and understood....why are these families viewed as irrational, intolerant or less than? Pride parade away, change your gender, discuss ad nauseam how the inside doesn't match your outside....but do it outside of school.

+100

No need to force LGBTQIA affirming curriculum on everyone.

And by "affirming", you mean "acknowledging the existence of".

Do you put idea of gender change in head of your 5 years old? It's just madness to expect all parents wanting to discuss gender change or inside not matching outside with their 5 years old.

No 5 years old is going to think about gender change unless parents themselves put this idea in their head and now the same parents want all 5 years old to hear this.

I neither care about any religion or LGBTQ agenda.

Nobody is requiring you to discuss gender change with your five-year-old. You don't have to worry about that. You can put your mind at ease.

Not the PP, but assuming you are very familiar with it.

How does 5 years old gets exposed to gender change. I mean how do they even start thinking about it. Is it parents putting this idea in kid's head? I am just curious.

Assuming that you are sincerely curious, here is a good place to start reading: https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/Pages/Gender-Identity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx

So by 5-6, all kids make their choice by themselves without input from parents about what gender they belong to?

It's all propaganda. 5 years old don't think about gender change. Parents put this idea in their head and the same parents want every single 5 years old to exposed to this idea.

5 year olds have a really good understanding of gender roles and where they fit in them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a stupid argument. You can't put the horse back in the barn. Kids are still exposed to each other at school, and they are going to hear things.

My 6 year old told me the other day that one of her classmates said they were transgender. I asked DD what that meant to her - she said the classmate said they can go to whichever bathroom they want and sometimes feel like a boy and sometimes like a girl.

Now, I have no idea if the classmate is transgender and don't care. Just putting this out there to remind you all how schools work. Kids talk, hear things, say things. They are going to be exposed to things beyond the safety of your home's walls. My 10-year-old came home one day asking what 69 was because some boys were talking about it at recess. This has been going on as long as schools were a thing. Banning books is not going to keep your kids from learning about these things.

If you want to ensure your child is not exposed to anything you disagree with, the only option you have is to keep them home at all times.

Getting rid of Pride Puppy is like putting a bandaid on a collander. It's pointless. Much better to be part of the discussion your kids are having, so you can: (1) make sure they're getting accurate information, and (2) help them work through their own thoughts on it.

So do you suggest, we should start having books about 69 for 5 years old in MCPS?

There is age for certain thing.

Oh no - did miss the page of Pride Puppy where anyone was having sex? That would definitely be inappropriate for young children.

Yes, there are appropriate ages for things. The existence of LGBTQ individuals is perfectly appropriate for young children.

Do you freak out about children watching the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade? Santa and Mrs. Clause both there?!? You know they must occasionally have sex. Showing up together in the parade exposes children to the existence of hetero marriage. Won't someone think of the children?!?

If you don't mind your 5 year old knowing that straight people exist, you shouldn't mind them knowing that gay people exist. You don't need to have a discussion of sexual acts in connection with that conversation anymore than you need to discuss sexual acts of hetero couples with your 5 year old. Which is to say, not at all.

5 years don't really think about hetero or homo. No need to starts telling them anything about it.

Clearly you don't have any gay friends. Several of mine had said they knew since they were 4 or 5

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]I think some of these books are problematic and I can understand why parents want to opt-out. I think MCPS has a good chance of losing based on freedom of religion grounds.

My daughter was forced to read a Boy Named Penelope and we don't agree with the viewpoints expressed in that book. I think it's dangerous for MCPS to take a stance on gender theory. None of this stuff is settled and we are very much in the throes of a societal debate about it, so people acting like people who disagree are neanderthals are wrong. There's lots of room for shades of gray here, but the activists won't allow it.[/quote]

Kids have been forced to read books in English for a century. Some that they like, others that they don’t, and others they totally disagree with. The reading, discussions , debate, and writing is what makes them useful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some of these books are problematic and I can understand why parents want to opt-out. I think MCPS has a good chance of losing based on freedom of religion grounds.

My daughter was forced to read a Boy Named Penelope and we don't agree with the viewpoints expressed in that book. I think it's dangerous for MCPS to take a stance on gender theory. None of this stuff is settled and we are very much in the throes of a societal debate about it, so people acting like people who disagree are neanderthals are wrong. There's lots of room for shades of gray here, but the activists won't allow it.

I think they are opting for the inclusivity of ALL of their students. The religious right doesn't get to decide for everyone any more and they are having a hissy fit about it.

They are not opting for the inclusivity of ALL of their students because Muslim parents are TELLING you these books and teachings about LGBTQ sexual norms and family structures VIOLATE their faith. They're not the only ones who this applies to.

You can't say you're inclusive for all when a significant chunk of students, who are Muslim or more conservative Christian, tell you this violates their faith. You're choosing to offend some to please others. And that's fine. But that's NOT inclusive and is the opposite of that.

What about a religion that believes that segregation is God ordained? Those exist, but we've never had a system that let people opt out of learning about Martin Luther King.

Which religion and have those parents organized to voice complaints about MLK in the curriculum or racial integration in schools? I'll wait.

This just shows me that people don’t know their history. Because many a people have used religion as the basis for terrible things. Including Christians who used the Bible to support slavery and segregation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some of these books are problematic and I can understand why parents want to opt-out. I think MCPS has a good chance of losing based on freedom of religion grounds.

My daughter was forced to read a Boy Named Penelope and we don't agree with the viewpoints expressed in that book. I think it's dangerous for MCPS to take a stance on gender theory. None of this stuff is settled and we are very much in the throes of a societal debate about it, so people acting like people who disagree are neanderthals are wrong. There's lots of room for shades of gray here, but the activists won't allow it.

I think they are opting for the inclusivity of ALL of their students. The religious right doesn't get to decide for everyone any more and they are having a hissy fit about it.

They are not opting for the inclusivity of ALL of their students because Muslim parents are TELLING you these books and teachings about LGBTQ sexual norms and family structures VIOLATE their faith. They're not the only ones who this applies to.

You can't say you're inclusive for all when a significant chunk of students, who are Muslim or more conservative Christian, tell you this violates their faith. You're choosing to offend some to please others. And that's fine. But that's NOT inclusive and is the opposite of that.

I'm going to the church of the spaghetti monster and stupidity greatly offends me. I think we should have it banned. Does anyone want to join me in the class action against stupidity?

1. Get your church recognized as a church

2. File a lawsuit and try your luck

1. That is a church

2. They are both very litigious and very successful in their litigation.

Then may the best church win.

HOw about we keep religion out of schools altogether? Instill those values at home if you wish, but I don't care what religious sensibilities the curriculum is offending.

I think we could all get behind that if you would admit that your efforts to promote certain social and environmental agendas were also a religion (see definition of "dogma").

What you view as "promoting as certain social and environmental agendas" the rest of us view as acknowledging that these kids exists, allowing them to exist and including them instead of stuffing our head in the sand and hiding behind religion in order to bully these kids into depression and suicide. Someone's mare existence is not "dogma."

Gay and trans kids don't exist. Kids haven't gone through puberty and don't know who they are attracted to. Understanding your gender is a developmental step that most grasp at much earlier ages. Apparently some are either delayed or have parents with Munchausen by Proxy. In either case, they need help to escape either their own delusion or their parent's, not celebration.

Such a moron. Just for a start, puberty and attraction have nothing to do with being gender dysphoric.

Wow. Did someone really post that? Does an adult really believe that? In this area too? That LGBTQ+ kids don't exist! Holy crap. This is why we need legislation. For once, I am proud of MCPS for not letting people opt out. It's not your right to erase someone else's existence just because of your 'beliefs'. Your rights never ever get to supersede the fact that other humans exist and may be different than you.

I believe their point was that prepubertal children don’t have sexual preferences because they haven’t developed sexual interest. You can’t be sexually attracted to the opposite sex until you experience sexual attraction.

That’s BS. I had a super crush on a boy named Marc in kindergarten. Did I understand it? Did I want to do anything with him???? No!!!!! But I really liked him a lot! Gtfo of here. Gay people exist. They love and have heartbreak just the same. Nothing nefarious. Maybe you are the problem.

Agree, also feel it's important for MCPS to represent all kinds of families in positive light.

[Anonymous]

But why can’t they just opt out? That’s what MCPS did with its pro LGBT sex ed program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents should always have a say in what their kids are learning. Ideally, their day can be to leave this crazy system but not vv everyone can afford that. Parents should be able to opt out of having their two and three year olds use a word search to find words like drag in story books being read to them.

https://www.fox5dc.com/news/3-montgomery-county-families-sue-mcps-over-lbtq-books.amp

No, they shouldn’t.

+1. It may sound good but I don't want some yahoo deciding what their kids can and can't read. That affects my kids too. If they don't like these books, they can always opt out.

That's why they are suing. They cannot opt out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey, OP, what if I don't want my kids to learn about 9/11 and how Islamic extremist terrorists bombed the World Trade Center and the Pentagon? Would that be ok?

How is that protected by 1st amendment rights?

[Anonymous]

I hope they win. I'm fine with my kid learning this stuff, but we also have to be fine with people who want to opt out. Not everyone can afford private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But why can’t they just opt out? That’s what MCPS did with its pro LGBT sex ed program.

Because the books are not part of the so-called "pro LGBT sex ed program". They are part of English/Language Arts. There is no notification/opt-out provision for ELA in Maryland regulations. Imagine to yourself how that would work. For example, I, personally, believe MCPS should have to notify me and allow my child to opt out of every book that does not pass the Bechdel test - for example, Lord of the Flies.