Why do donut hole families

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

But that's the problem, college expenses have become exploitative for most family budgets. As PP suggests, your entire adult life you're now supposed to be either saving for college or paying off your loans. It's basically become a third layer of taxation in addition to state and federal.

College costs are INDEFENSIBLE here in the US. No other country in the world has such expensive university education, and yet many have excellent institutions. It IS exploitative.

It's like the cost of healthcare in this country. It does not need to be that high! Other wealthy nations do it for much less.

But here capitalism rules, the federal government has very little regulatory control compared to other countries... and we are left with this. Very little upward mobility in an erstwhile upwardly mobile country.

So you're all right where universities want you, suckers: bickering amongst yourselves, and forgetting that you are all being exploited BY THEM.

+1

Only in the US would people compare a university education with a luxury car.

Because only in the US do people feel entitled to the tippy top ranked universities for their kids, no matter what.
Most of Europe is not attending Cambridge or Oxford for undergrad. They are attending a nearby local university. Their kid was "tracked for college" sometime around 12/13 yo and if they do well on the testing that day, they may not be eligible for a STEM major 5 years later. Nobody is saying you can't get an education. We literally have hundreds of great choices, many offering merit. There are ways to attend college for minimal costs, you just wont attend a Top tier university. Just like much of Europe does not attend a Top tier university for their undergrad.

Wait a sec here. Most of the UK doesn't go to Oxbridge because they can't get in, not because they can't pay! We are talking about getting in to schools you can't pay for. In France for example, if you get into Polytechnique (the top engineering school), your tuition bill can be covered by military service following your studies, or in most cases, your first employer pays off your bill as part of the job offer. You rarely hear about someone in France qualifying for one of these schools and not going because they can't afford it.

The bolded is true in the US too. That's what ROTC is.

As a spouse of retired Enlisted, there is no way I'd let my kids do ROTC or anything else military related in college. They go to state schools that we can afford to pay for and if they want military afterward, they can go in as an Officer not oweing anything.

Donut Families can afford state schools. They can afford a lot more if they budgeted right. If you choose to pay for expensive housing, etc. that is your choice but then don't complain you cannot afford college. We live in a sh@t shack that is in a "lesser" neighborhood so we can afford college. No one cares where your kids go to high school. In all reality for many professions now, they don't care if you go to a private or public. The degree is what is important.

It’s easier for donut families to afford state schools in certain states more than others, because not all state systems are funded equally or give out appreciable scholarships/need based aid. MD and VA are actually pretty expensive as state schools go. I was shocked by how little my FL cousins, who were above average students but not valedictorian or anything, had to pay to attend the public universities there. Say what you will about FL but they do a better job on the college affordability front.

People like to belittle southern states, but they are better thank local states for college affordability and it isn't close

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is there a consensus on how much a donut hole family should be able to afford, like can almost everyone agree that a so-called donut hole family should be able to pay $30,000 per kid per year? Also, what is the generally accepted income range of a donut hole family?

We calculated that to have 4 years in state saved for each of our two kids, we’d need to save $350/per month each. We can do that on our HHI, but $700 per month is not chump change by any means and it is generally not advised to shortchange your retirement accounts to save for college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s insane that our $250K family did not get 1 penny FA for a $60K/year school.

We were also not always $250K family, we were closer to $160/year, then $180K for a few years. Plus the $250 includes one of us having 2 jobs.

My H is a cop and I was a GS-13 most our lives so we could not really save that much.

Were you surprised by the outcome? Did you just assume your child would get a lot of financial aid the entire 18 years they were growing up? I am honestly curious because so many people screaming “donut hole” seemed shocked and outraged when college comes around and they are not getting financial aid. Were you reading newspapers or financial magazines or anything for the last 2 decades?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

But that's the problem, college expenses have become exploitative for most family budgets. As PP suggests, your entire adult life you're now supposed to be either saving for college or paying off your loans. It's basically become a third layer of taxation in addition to state and federal.

College costs are INDEFENSIBLE here in the US. No other country in the world has such expensive university education, and yet many have excellent institutions. It IS exploitative.

It's like the cost of healthcare in this country. It does not need to be that high! Other wealthy nations do it for much less.

But here capitalism rules, the federal government has very little regulatory control compared to other countries... and we are left with this. Very little upward mobility in an erstwhile upwardly mobile country.

So you're all right where universities want you, suckers: bickering amongst yourselves, and forgetting that you are all being exploited BY THEM.

+1

Only in the US would people compare a university education with a luxury car.

Because only in the US do people feel entitled to the tippy top ranked universities for their kids, no matter what.
Most of Europe is not attending Cambridge or Oxford for undergrad. They are attending a nearby local university. Their kid was "tracked for college" sometime around 12/13 yo and if they do well on the testing that day, they may not be eligible for a STEM major 5 years later. Nobody is saying you can't get an education. We literally have hundreds of great choices, many offering merit. There are ways to attend college for minimal costs, you just wont attend a Top tier university. Just like much of Europe does not attend a Top tier university for their undergrad.

Wait a sec here. Most of the UK doesn't go to Oxbridge because they can't get in, not because they can't pay! We are talking about getting in to schools you can't pay for. In France for example, if you get into Polytechnique (the top engineering school), your tuition bill can be covered by military service following your studies, or in most cases, your first employer pays off your bill as part of the job offer. You rarely hear about someone in France qualifying for one of these schools and not going because they can't afford it.

The bolded is true in the US too. That's what ROTC is.

As a spouse of retired Enlisted, there is no way I'd let my kids do ROTC or anything else military related in college. They go to state schools that we can afford to pay for and if they want military afterward, they can go in as an Officer not oweing anything.

Donut Families can afford state schools. They can afford a lot more if they budgeted right. If you choose to pay for expensive housing, etc. that is your choice but then don't complain you cannot afford college. We live in a sh@t shack that is in a "lesser" neighborhood so we can afford college. No one cares where your kids go to high school. In all reality for many professions now, they don't care if you go to a private or public. The degree is what is important.

It’s easier for donut families to afford state schools in certain states more than others, because not all state systems are funded equally or give out appreciable scholarships/need based aid. MD and VA are actually pretty expensive as state schools go. I was shocked by how little my FL cousins, who were above average students but not valedictorian or anything, had to pay to attend the public universities there. Say what you will about FL but they do a better job on the college affordability front.

People like to belittle southern states, but they are better thank local states for college affordability and it isn't close

Yup. Although of the northern states, NY does a pretty decent job too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poor people do not have more options. Most truly poor people are not in the college pipeline.

Additionally, if those "donut hole" families lived like the poor people, rented where they rent, shopped where they shop, etc., they'd have tons of options too. Just saying.

+1

I get that some have special circumstances--medical debt or something unforeseen. But most donut hole families that I know made choices to spend elsewhere. New iPhone every year, 2 Starbucks trips per day, eating lunch out daily, eating half of dinners out, taking really nice vacations, new cars every 3-4 years, etc. Yes those are all "small things" in the grand scheme of savings, but that is just what is visible to me---I'm sure there is much more I don't even see. Someone with a mindset like that is choosing to spend on things when they could choose to save.
We knew our kids would get no aid, so we started saving as soon as they were born. We didn't start living a luxury lifestyle until we could afford it. We paid only 50% of what we could easily afford for our first house and lived there for 7 years. Sure we could afford a newer/nicer home, but we did not need it, this house had 4 bedrooms and 2.5 baths so enough space for a young family---it was relatively speaking much nicer than the apartment we came from. So we lived nicely but not luxuriously and saved the extras. We drove cars for 8-10 years and saved to pay cash for the next ones.
We also choose to not have kids until 30, so that allowed us to consciously save the extra salary and live off of basically one. We aggressively paid off all student loans, invested in our retirement. Other than our honeymoon, I was 35 before I took a "fancy vacation", yet we could have easily afforded to do so at 25/26. But that restraint allowed us to front load saving for college and then we could change our lifestyle as desired.

Same here. Our children can go almost anywhere, but only because we got started saving early and let the savings compound. We never made more than $120K either, but we've always banked at least one income. The irony is that we can now afford to live on one modest income and maintain our lifestyle. Plus, since most of our money is tucked away in retirement accounts and our house is paid off, our EFC is pretty low.

I always think about our situation when people on this board talk about not getting married until you are much older. It's a choice, but you don't get to set your family up nearly as well as if you partnered up earlier in life. However, there is nothing wrong with state schools and lower ranked colleges either.

Any time I hear those numbers, I just assume that you were in a position to buy a house young. No family is forgoing a salary to live on 120k if they either have to deal with rising rent every year or the mortgage on a recently purchased home

That's correct. We also didn't travel, shop or eat out much. I read the book "Your Money or Your Life" when I was 21 and it had a major impact on my view of spending. I guess people today can read all those FIRE blogs and reach the same conclusion. Anyway, two incomes can do some pretty amazing things before the kids come along. I'm encouraging my kids to follow the same path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

But that's the problem, college expenses have become exploitative for most family budgets. As PP suggests, your entire adult life you're now supposed to be either saving for college or paying off your loans. It's basically become a third layer of taxation in addition to state and federal.

College costs are INDEFENSIBLE here in the US. No other country in the world has such expensive university education, and yet many have excellent institutions. It IS exploitative.

It's like the cost of healthcare in this country. It does not need to be that high! Other wealthy nations do it for much less.

But here capitalism rules, the federal government has very little regulatory control compared to other countries... and we are left with this. Very little upward mobility in an erstwhile upwardly mobile country.

So you're all right where universities want you, suckers: bickering amongst yourselves, and forgetting that you are all being exploited BY THEM.

+1

Only in the US would people compare a university education with a luxury car.

Because only in the US do people feel entitled to the tippy top ranked universities for their kids, no matter what.
Most of Europe is not attending Cambridge or Oxford for undergrad. They are attending a nearby local university. Their kid was "tracked for college" sometime around 12/13 yo and if they do well on the testing that day, they may not be eligible for a STEM major 5 years later. Nobody is saying you can't get an education. We literally have hundreds of great choices, many offering merit. There are ways to attend college for minimal costs, you just wont attend a Top tier university. Just like much of Europe does not attend a Top tier university for their undergrad.

Wait a sec here. Most of the UK doesn't go to Oxbridge because they can't get in, not because they can't pay! We are talking about getting in to schools you can't pay for. In France for example, if you get into Polytechnique (the top engineering school), your tuition bill can be covered by military service following your studies, or in most cases, your first employer pays off your bill as part of the job offer. You rarely hear about someone in France qualifying for one of these schools and not going because they can't afford it.

The bolded is true in the US too. That's what ROTC is.

As a spouse of retired Enlisted, there is no way I'd let my kids do ROTC or anything else military related in college. They go to state schools that we can afford to pay for and if they want military afterward, they can go in as an Officer not oweing anything.

Donut Families can afford state schools. They can afford a lot more if they budgeted right. If you choose to pay for expensive housing, etc. that is your choice but then don't complain you cannot afford college. We live in a sh@t shack that is in a "lesser" neighborhood so we can afford college. No one cares where your kids go to high school. In all reality for many professions now, they don't care if you go to a private or public. The degree is what is important.

It’s easier for donut families to afford state schools in certain states more than others, because not all state systems are funded equally or give out appreciable scholarships/need based aid. MD and VA are actually pretty expensive as state schools go. I was shocked by how little my FL cousins, who were above average students but not valedictorian or anything, had to pay to attend the public universities there. Say what you will about FL but they do a better job on the college affordability front.

UMD is not that expensive. Not sure about VA, but MD is $10K without room and board. So, yes, it was easy for us to save when we did it at birth and put our priority into college savings vs. an expensive house or vacations or other things.

Most people can’t afford an expensive house, fancy vacations, or 4 years of college…..it’s not either/or, it’s none of the above. Some of you are so out of touch it’s scary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Complain about being a donut hole family? When there are thousands of colleges that could work between in state options and merit aid at lower tier privates and other oos public’s?l is it bc ivies and top 25 are not options?

Why do people on what would seem to be a fairly highly educated board not know how to pluralize words correctly?

Bc 16 pages later people know what the OP question is and are willing to engage. Why don’t you know that a social media thread does not require grammar rule following

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Complain about being a donut hole family? When there are thousands of colleges that could work between in state options and merit aid at lower tier privates and other oos public’s?l is it bc ivies and top 25 are not options?

I thought it was “hundreds” of options? Now you’re talking thousands? Care to share a list of say, a 100 or so of these options within an 8hr drive? Since there are apparently so many! TIA!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Complain about being a donut hole family? When there are thousands of colleges that could work between in state options and merit aid at lower tier privates and other oos public’s?l is it bc ivies and top 25 are not options?

Its because their kids don't get judged on their ability but on their parental assets and can't attend schools they are eligible for or want to attend. Unless parents are willing to sacrifice their hard earned savings and risk retirement , kids often can't afford anything but community college or some regional state campus with merit.

A true donut hole family should be able to afford $20-30K/year with savings and cashflow. That's well more than CC. Plenty of choices if you just try rather than complaining "we can't afford anything"

You still don't get it. Imagine a brilliant STEM student who already got into Stanford or MIT. But they end up going to a much lower ranked school ONLY because their family is too "rich" for FA and too poor to pay full ride. There's something wrong with that picture.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that picture. What exactly is the problem? This is adulting. We all have to make choices in regards to what we can afford and what we cannot.

Nobody is entitled to a discount for a crazy expensive education.

Nobody is saying they are entitled we are just pointing out the system is broke.

It doesn’t make sense if the mom quits her job a child will have better college opportunities .

Just like it’s insane that a child can get FA if her mom doesn’t marry but the minute she married the new h’s income makes it impossible for her to get FA.

A child can be a junior rising in college and have to leave college because mom got married.

+1.

Also, there's something broken about a system where each generation has to pay higher and higher costs for a college education, while simultaneously having to save more for retirement because we are living longer, there are fewer employer pension programs, and medical costs keep rising too. My parents grew up at a time where working summers, and maybe part-time during the school year, would pay for that year of college. Now you really have to be perfect- there isn't room for you yourself making a poor decision to take out loans at 18, that will carry over well into your adulthood and affect your ability to buy a house and save for your own kids. There isn't room for an unexpected expenses that will drain your savings. Heaven forbid you take a vacation. All must be sacrificed to afford college now, and apparently as a society now we've decided that's A-OK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Complain about being a donut hole family? When there are thousands of colleges that could work between in state options and merit aid at lower tier privates and other oos public’s?l is it bc ivies and top 25 are not options?

I thought it was “hundreds” of options? Now you’re talking thousands? Care to share a list of say, a 100 or so of these options within an 8hr drive? Since there are apparently so many! TIA!

There are 3000 colleges in the United States. Only 25 are in the top 25. THOUSANDS. If you want to make a state college in Arizona or Oregon work for you, you could. That you don’t want to or want to self impose a driving limit of 8 hours, (why not 10 or 12), that’s on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Complain about being a donut hole family? When there are thousands of colleges that could work between in state options and merit aid at lower tier privates and other oos public’s?l is it bc ivies and top 25 are not options?

I thought it was “hundreds” of options? Now you’re talking thousands? Care to share a list of say, a 100 or so of these options within an 8hr drive? Since there are apparently so many! TIA!

There are 3000 colleges in the United States. Only 25 are in the top 25. THOUSANDS. If you want to make a state college in Arizona or Oregon work for you, you could. That you don’t want to or want to self impose a driving limit of 8 hours, (why not 10 or 12), that’s on you.

Which of these Arizona or Oregon state colleges give significant aid to OOS students? Wasn't that your whole shtick, that there are all these affordable options out there that most of us aren't considering? Most students are not getting into a T25 school so I don't know why you are singularly focused on those anyway.

Distance is reasonable to consider because flying back and forth across the country costs $$.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s insane that our $250K family did not get 1 penny FA for a $60K/year school.

We were also not always $250K family, we were closer to $160/year, then $180K for a few years. Plus the $250 includes one of us having 2 jobs.

My H is a cop and I was a GS-13 most our lives so we could not really save that much.

Were you surprised by the outcome? Did you just assume your child would get a lot of financial aid the entire 18 years they were growing up? I am honestly curious because so many people screaming “donut hole” seemed shocked and outraged when college comes around and they are not getting financial aid. Were you reading newspapers or financial magazines or anything for the last 2 decades?

I was most surprised when my income increased so much in 4 years. We mostly made $160-$180K so we knew we were screwed either way. Making $250K is all in the last 3 years .

But the donut hole issue we saw it coming. Luckily we have an athlete and gamed the system that way. He got a 60 % scholarship too a T 30 school.

My other son did the SEC in state route.

I’m not shocked or outraged at out situation. I do think it’s an outrage that if a child’s mother marries some dude when she is in college she has to drop out because his income invalidates her FA.

My H a cop. I’m a govt worker… I had no expectations of a T30 school. But I can still look at a system critically and see it is set up badly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Complain about being a donut hole family? When there are thousands of colleges that could work between in state options and merit aid at lower tier privates and other oos public’s?l is it bc ivies and top 25 are not options?

Its because their kids don't get judged on their ability but on their parental assets and can't attend schools they are eligible for or want to attend. Unless parents are willing to sacrifice their hard earned savings and risk retirement , kids often can't afford anything but community college or some regional state campus with merit.

A true donut hole family should be able to afford $20-30K/year with savings and cashflow. That's well more than CC. Plenty of choices if you just try rather than complaining "we can't afford anything"

You still don't get it. Imagine a brilliant STEM student who already got into Stanford or MIT. But they end up going to a much lower ranked school ONLY because their family is too "rich" for FA and too poor to pay full ride. There's something wrong with that picture.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that picture. What exactly is the problem? This is adulting. We all have to make choices in regards to what we can afford and what we cannot.

Nobody is entitled to a discount for a crazy expensive education.

Nobody is saying they are entitled we are just pointing out the system is broke.

It doesn’t make sense if the mom quits her job a child will have better college opportunities .

Just like it’s insane that a child can get FA if her mom doesn’t marry but the minute she married the new h’s income makes it impossible for her to get FA.

A child can be a junior rising in college and have to leave college because mom got married.

+1.

Also, there's something broken about a system where each generation has to pay higher and higher costs for a college education, while simultaneously having to save more for retirement because we are living longer, there are fewer employer pension programs, and medical costs keep rising too. My parents grew up at a time where working summers, and maybe part-time during the school year, would pay for that year of college. Now you really have to be perfect- there isn't room for you yourself making a poor decision to take out loans at 18, that will carry over well into your adulthood and affect your ability to buy a house and save for your own kids. There isn't room for an unexpected expenses that will drain your savings. Heaven forbid you take a vacation. All must be sacrificed to afford college now, and apparently as a society now we've decided that's A-OK.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Complain about being a donut hole family? When there are thousands of colleges that could work between in state options and merit aid at lower tier privates and other oos public’s?l is it bc ivies and top 25 are not options?

Its because their kids don't get judged on their ability but on their parental assets and can't attend schools they are eligible for or want to attend. Unless parents are willing to sacrifice their hard earned savings and risk retirement , kids often can't afford anything but community college or some regional state campus with merit.

A true donut hole family should be able to afford $20-30K/year with savings and cashflow. That's well more than CC. Plenty of choices if you just try rather than complaining "we can't afford anything"

You still don't get it. Imagine a brilliant STEM student who already got into Stanford or MIT. But they end up going to a much lower ranked school ONLY because their family is too "rich" for FA and too poor to pay full ride. There's something wrong with that picture.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that picture. What exactly is the problem? This is adulting. We all have to make choices in regards to what we can afford and what we cannot.

Nobody is entitled to a discount for a crazy expensive education.

Nobody is saying they are entitled we are just pointing out the system is broke.

It doesn’t make sense if the mom quits her job a child will have better college opportunities .

Just like it’s insane that a child can get FA if her mom doesn’t marry but the minute she married the new h’s income makes it impossible for her to get FA.

A child can be a junior rising in college and have to leave college because mom got married.

+1.

Also, there's something broken about a system where each generation has to pay higher and higher costs for a college education, while simultaneously having to save more for retirement because we are living longer, there are fewer employer pension programs, and medical costs keep rising too. My parents grew up at a time where working summers, and maybe part-time during the school year, would pay for that year of college. Now you really have to be perfect- there isn't room for you yourself making a poor decision to take out loans at 18, that will carry over well into your adulthood and affect your ability to buy a house and save for your own kids. There isn't room for an unexpected expenses that will drain your savings. Heaven forbid you take a vacation. All must be sacrificed to afford college now, and apparently as a society now we've decided that's A-OK.

No room for a divorce or mental health crisis either, because both of those are expensive AF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poor people do not have more options. Most truly poor people are not in the college pipeline.

Additionally, if those "donut hole" families lived like the poor people, rented where they rent, shopped where they shop, etc., they'd have tons of options too. Just saying.

+1

I get that some have special circumstances--medical debt or something unforeseen. But most donut hole families that I know made choices to spend elsewhere. New iPhone every year, 2 Starbucks trips per day, eating lunch out daily, eating half of dinners out, taking really nice vacations, new cars every 3-4 years, etc. Yes those are all "small things" in the grand scheme of savings, but that is just what is visible to me---I'm sure there is much more I don't even see. Someone with a mindset like that is choosing to spend on things when they could choose to save.
We knew our kids would get no aid, so we started saving as soon as they were born. We didn't start living a luxury lifestyle until we could afford it. We paid only 50% of what we could easily afford for our first house and lived there for 7 years. Sure we could afford a newer/nicer home, but we did not need it, this house had 4 bedrooms and 2.5 baths so enough space for a young family---it was relatively speaking much nicer than the apartment we came from. So we lived nicely but not luxuriously and saved the extras. We drove cars for 8-10 years and saved to pay cash for the next ones.
We also choose to not have kids until 30, so that allowed us to consciously save the extra salary and live off of basically one. We aggressively paid off all student loans, invested in our retirement. Other than our honeymoon, I was 35 before I took a "fancy vacation", yet we could have easily afforded to do so at 25/26. But that restraint allowed us to front load saving for college and then we could change our lifestyle as desired.

Same here. Our children can go almost anywhere, but only because we got started saving early and let the savings compound. We never made more than $120K either, but we've always banked at least one income. The irony is that we can now afford to live on one modest income and maintain our lifestyle. Plus, since most of our money is tucked away in retirement accounts and our house is paid off, our EFC is pretty low.

I always think about our situation when people on this board talk about not getting married until you are much older. It's a choice, but you don't get to set your family up nearly as well as if you partnered up earlier in life. However, there is nothing wrong with state schools and lower ranked colleges either.

Exactly. It's all about choices. And of course, nothing wrong with any college. Pick what works for your family, pick what's affordable. But if you choose to have kids before you have paid off your own college debt, it will be harder to save for college and that choice will impact your kid's college choices, just a simple fact of life. Life is about choices, and you get to live with the consequences of your choices as a responsible adult