Why do donut hole families

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Complain about being a donut hole family? When there are thousands of colleges that could work between in state options and merit aid at lower tier privates and other oos public’s?l is it bc ivies and top 25 are not options?

Its because their kids don't get judged on their ability but on their parental assets and can't attend schools they are eligible for or want to attend. Unless parents are willing to sacrifice their hard earned savings and risk retirement , kids often can't afford anything but community college or some regional state campus with merit.

A true donut hole family should be able to afford $20-30K/year with savings and cashflow. That's well more than CC. Plenty of choices if you just try rather than complaining "we can't afford anything"

You still don't get it. Imagine a brilliant STEM student who already got into Stanford or MIT. But they end up going to a much lower ranked school ONLY because their family is too "rich" for FA and too poor to pay full ride. There's something wrong with that picture.

THAT WAS ME!!

And I have heard privileged douches my whole life make assumptions about someone's incorrect assumptions about people's intelligence when they find out where they went to college. My neighborhood is filled with these legacy Ivy types that thumb their noses at the state school kids.

I worked full=time every summer and had a part-time job all through high school and undergrad. My full financial needs=based friends didn't' have to work.

It was me too. And my problem with the so-called donut hole family is that you are all upholding the same myth that the best job applicants come from the best schools. That cultural assumption needs to change.

How heavily does your employer recruit at Salisbury State and Frostburg State vs. higher ranked schools?

They don’t hire new grads but obviously they hired me, from Ho Hum State.

Where did u go? 3rd tier state school?

A Big 10.

So even your job doesn’t hire 3rd tier.

My spouse went to a no-name school, ranked far less than Salisbury or Forstburg, and has done well enough with that degree. Those schools are fine.

That’s my goal for things to be “fine”. College sports teams should cheer that. Give me an F, give me and I….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Complain about being a donut hole family? When there are thousands of colleges that could work between in state options and merit aid at lower tier privates and other oos public’s?l is it bc ivies and top 25 are not options?

Its because their kids don't get judged on their ability but on their parental assets and can't attend schools they are eligible for or want to attend. Unless parents are willing to sacrifice their hard earned savings and risk retirement , kids often can't afford anything but community college or some regional state campus with merit.

A true donut hole family should be able to afford $20-30K/year with savings and cashflow. That's well more than CC. Plenty of choices if you just try rather than complaining "we can't afford anything"

You still don't get it. Imagine a brilliant STEM student who already got into Stanford or MIT. But they end up going to a much lower ranked school ONLY because their family is too "rich" for FA and too poor to pay full ride. There's something wrong with that picture.

THAT WAS ME!!

And I have heard privileged douches my whole life make assumptions about someone's incorrect assumptions about people's intelligence when they find out where they went to college. My neighborhood is filled with these legacy Ivy types that thumb their noses at the state school kids.

I worked full=time every summer and had a part-time job all through high school and undergrad. My full financial needs=based friends didn't' have to work.

It was me too. And my problem with the so-called donut hole family is that you are all upholding the same myth that the best job applicants come from the best schools. That cultural assumption needs to change.

How heavily does your employer recruit at Salisbury State and Frostburg State vs. higher ranked schools?

They don’t hire new grads but obviously they hired me, from Ho Hum State.

Where did u go? 3rd tier state school?

A Big 10.

So even your job doesn’t hire 3rd tier.

I don’t know I don’t work in HR. Do you?

Yes. I’ve worked in HR.

Then why don’t you go become an evangelist for the economic reality that great students go to affordable schools, even if they aren’t ranked well? Go write an op-ed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Complain about being a donut hole family? When there are thousands of colleges that could work between in state options and merit aid at lower tier privates and other oos public’s?l is it bc ivies and top 25 are not options?

Its because their kids don't get judged on their ability but on their parental assets and can't attend schools they are eligible for or want to attend. Unless parents are willing to sacrifice their hard earned savings and risk retirement , kids often can't afford anything but community college or some regional state campus with merit.

A true donut hole family should be able to afford $20-30K/year with savings and cashflow. That's well more than CC. Plenty of choices if you just try rather than complaining "we can't afford anything"

You still don't get it. Imagine a brilliant STEM student who already got into Stanford or MIT. But they end up going to a much lower ranked school ONLY because their family is too "rich" for FA and too poor to pay full ride. There's something wrong with that picture.

THAT WAS ME!!

And I have heard privileged douches my whole life make assumptions about someone's incorrect assumptions about people's intelligence when they find out where they went to college. My neighborhood is filled with these legacy Ivy types that thumb their noses at the state school kids.

I worked full=time every summer and had a part-time job all through high school and undergrad. My full financial needs=based friends didn't' have to work.

It was me too. And my problem with the so-called donut hole family is that you are all upholding the same myth that the best job applicants come from the best schools. That cultural assumption needs to change.

How heavily does your employer recruit at Salisbury State and Frostburg State vs. higher ranked schools?

They don’t hire new grads but obviously they hired me, from Ho Hum State.

Where did u go? 3rd tier state school?

A Big 10.

So even your job doesn’t hire 3rd tier.

My spouse went to a no-name school, ranked far less than Salisbury or Forstburg, and has done well enough with that degree. Those schools are fine.

That’s my goal for things to be “fine”. College sports teams should cheer that. Give me an F, give me and I….

If you want exceptional results go have some exceptional in-puts. Don’t sit around waiting for someone else to fund MIT for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Complain about being a donut hole family? When there are thousands of colleges that could work between in state options and merit aid at lower tier privates and other oos public’s?l is it bc ivies and top 25 are not options?

Its because their kids don't get judged on their ability but on their parental assets and can't attend schools they are eligible for or want to attend. Unless parents are willing to sacrifice their hard earned savings and risk retirement , kids often can't afford anything but community college or some regional state campus with merit.

A true donut hole family should be able to afford $20-30K/year with savings and cashflow. That's well more than CC. Plenty of choices if you just try rather than complaining "we can't afford anything"

You still don't get it. Imagine a brilliant STEM student who already got into Stanford or MIT. But they end up going to a much lower ranked school ONLY because their family is too "rich" for FA and too poor to pay full ride. There's something wrong with that picture.

THAT WAS ME!!

And I have heard privileged douches my whole life make assumptions about someone's incorrect assumptions about people's intelligence when they find out where they went to college. My neighborhood is filled with these legacy Ivy types that thumb their noses at the state school kids.

I worked full=time every summer and had a part-time job all through high school and undergrad. My full financial needs=based friends didn't' have to work.

It was me too. And my problem with the so-called donut hole family is that you are all upholding the same myth that the best job applicants come from the best schools. That cultural assumption needs to change.

How heavily does your employer recruit at Salisbury State and Frostburg State vs. higher ranked schools?

They don’t hire new grads but obviously they hired me, from Ho Hum State.

Where did u go? 3rd tier state school?

A Big 10.

So even your job doesn’t hire 3rd tier.

My spouse went to a no-name school, ranked far less than Salisbury or Forstburg, and has done well enough with that degree. Those schools are fine.

That’s my goal for things to be “fine”. College sports teams should cheer that. Give me an F, give me and I….

If you want exceptional results go have some exceptional in-puts. Don’t sit around waiting for someone else to fund MIT for you.

LOL, I have to respond here. Over three decades ago, my HS BF got into a number of HYPSMs as well as "public" Ivies. His parents told him he would have to go to one of the public Ivies due to costs. One of the alumni interviewers, a very successful business owner, learned about it and offered to cover his tuition if his parents covered his room/board. His younger brother attended a public Ivy. They both went into the same field and both have had largely similar professional outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poor people do not have more options. Most truly poor people are not in the college pipeline.

Additionally, if those "donut hole" families lived like the poor people, rented where they rent, shopped where they shop, etc., they'd have tons of options too. Just saying.

+1

I get that some have special circumstances--medical debt or something unforeseen. But most donut hole families that I know made choices to spend elsewhere. New iPhone every year, 2 Starbucks trips per day, eating lunch out daily, eating half of dinners out, taking really nice vacations, new cars every 3-4 years, etc. Yes those are all "small things" in the grand scheme of savings, but that is just what is visible to me---I'm sure there is much more I don't even see. Someone with a mindset like that is choosing to spend on things when they could choose to save.
We knew our kids would get no aid, so we started saving as soon as they were born. We didn't start living a luxury lifestyle until we could afford it. We paid only 50% of what we could easily afford for our first house and lived there for 7 years. Sure we could afford a newer/nicer home, but we did not need it, this house had 4 bedrooms and 2.5 baths so enough space for a young family---it was relatively speaking much nicer than the apartment we came from. So we lived nicely but not luxuriously and saved the extras. We drove cars for 8-10 years and saved to pay cash for the next ones.
We also choose to not have kids until 30, so that allowed us to consciously save the extra salary and live off of basically one. We aggressively paid off all student loans, invested in our retirement. Other than our honeymoon, I was 35 before I took a "fancy vacation", yet we could have easily afforded to do so at 25/26. But that restraint allowed us to front load saving for college and then we could change our lifestyle as desired.

Same here. Our children can go almost anywhere, but only because we got started saving early and let the savings compound. We never made more than $120K either, but we've always banked at least one income. The irony is that we can now afford to live on one modest income and maintain our lifestyle. Plus, since most of our money is tucked away in retirement accounts and our house is paid off, our EFC is pretty low.

I always think about our situation when people on this board talk about not getting married until you are much older. It's a choice, but you don't get to set your family up nearly as well as if you partnered up earlier in life. However, there is nothing wrong with state schools and lower ranked colleges either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poor people do not have more options. Most truly poor people are not in the college pipeline.

Additionally, if those "donut hole" families lived like the poor people, rented where they rent, shopped where they shop, etc., they'd have tons of options too. Just saying.

+1

I get that some have special circumstances--medical debt or something unforeseen. But most donut hole families that I know made choices to spend elsewhere. New iPhone every year, 2 Starbucks trips per day, eating lunch out daily, eating half of dinners out, taking really nice vacations, new cars every 3-4 years, etc. Yes those are all "small things" in the grand scheme of savings, but that is just what is visible to me---I'm sure there is much more I don't even see. Someone with a mindset like that is choosing to spend on things when they could choose to save.
We knew our kids would get no aid, so we started saving as soon as they were born. We didn't start living a luxury lifestyle until we could afford it. We paid only 50% of what we could easily afford for our first house and lived there for 7 years. Sure we could afford a newer/nicer home, but we did not need it, this house had 4 bedrooms and 2.5 baths so enough space for a young family---it was relatively speaking much nicer than the apartment we came from. So we lived nicely but not luxuriously and saved the extras. We drove cars for 8-10 years and saved to pay cash for the next ones.
We also choose to not have kids until 30, so that allowed us to consciously save the extra salary and live off of basically one. We aggressively paid off all student loans, invested in our retirement. Other than our honeymoon, I was 35 before I took a "fancy vacation", yet we could have easily afforded to do so at 25/26. But that restraint allowed us to front load saving for college and then we could change our lifestyle as desired.

Same here. Our children can go almost anywhere, but only because we got started saving early and let the savings compound. We never made more than $120K either, but we've always banked at least one income. The irony is that we can now afford to live on one modest income and maintain our lifestyle. Plus, since most of our money is tucked away in retirement accounts and our house is paid off, our EFC is pretty low.

I always think about our situation when people on this board talk about not getting married until you are much older. It's a choice, but you don't get to set your family up nearly as well as if you partnered up earlier in life. However, there is nothing wrong with state schools and lower ranked colleges either.

Any time I hear those numbers, I just assume that you were in a position to buy a house young. No family is forgoing a salary to live on 120k if they either have to deal with rising rent every year or the mortgage on a recently purchased home

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Complain about being a donut hole family? When there are thousands of colleges that could work between in state options and merit aid at lower tier privates and other oos public’s?l is it bc ivies and top 25 are not options?

Its because their kids don't get judged on their ability but on their parental assets and can't attend schools they are eligible for or want to attend. Unless parents are willing to sacrifice their hard earned savings and risk retirement , kids often can't afford anything but community college or some regional state campus with merit.

A true donut hole family should be able to afford $20-30K/year with savings and cashflow. That's well more than CC. Plenty of choices if you just try rather than complaining "we can't afford anything"

You still don't get it. Imagine a brilliant STEM student who already got into Stanford or MIT. But they end up going to a much lower ranked school ONLY because their family is too "rich" for FA and too poor to pay full ride. There's something wrong with that picture.

THAT WAS ME!!

And I have heard privileged douches my whole life make assumptions about someone's incorrect assumptions about people's intelligence when they find out where they went to college. My neighborhood is filled with these legacy Ivy types that thumb their noses at the state school kids.

I worked full=time every summer and had a part-time job all through high school and undergrad. My full financial needs=based friends didn't' have to work.

It was me too. And my problem with the so-called donut hole family is that you are all upholding the same myth that the best job applicants come from the best schools. That cultural assumption needs to change.

How heavily does your employer recruit at Salisbury State and Frostburg State vs. higher ranked schools?

They don’t hire new grads but obviously they hired me, from Ho Hum State.

Where did u go? 3rd tier state school?

A Big 10.

So even your job doesn’t hire 3rd tier.

My spouse went to a no-name school, ranked far less than Salisbury or Forstburg, and has done well enough with that degree. Those schools are fine.

That’s my goal for things to be “fine”. College sports teams should cheer that. Give me an F, give me and I….

If you want exceptional results go have some exceptional in-puts. Don’t sit around waiting for someone else to fund MIT for you.

LOL, I have to respond here. Over three decades ago, my HS BF got into a number of HYPSMs as well as "public" Ivies. His parents told him he would have to go to one of the public Ivies due to costs. One of the alumni interviewers, a very successful business owner, learned about it and offered to cover his tuition if his parents covered his room/board. His younger brother attended a public Ivy. They both went into the same field and both have had largely similar professional outcomes.

Yes, I quite agree these donut hole folks have worked themselves into hysterics.

[Anonymous]

Is there a consensus on how much a donut hole family should be able to afford, like can almost everyone agree that a so-called donut hole family should be able to pay $30,000 per kid per year? Also, what is the generally accepted income range of a donut hole family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Complain about being a donut hole family? When there are thousands of colleges that could work between in state options and merit aid at lower tier privates and other oos public’s?l is it bc ivies and top 25 are not options?

Its because their kids don't get judged on their ability but on their parental assets and can't attend schools they are eligible for or want to attend. Unless parents are willing to sacrifice their hard earned savings and risk retirement , kids often can't afford anything but community college or some regional state campus with merit.

A true donut hole family should be able to afford $20-30K/year with savings and cashflow. That's well more than CC. Plenty of choices if you just try rather than complaining "we can't afford anything"

You still don't get it. Imagine a brilliant STEM student who already got into Stanford or MIT. But they end up going to a much lower ranked school ONLY because their family is too "rich" for FA and too poor to pay full ride. There's something wrong with that picture.

THAT WAS ME!!

And I have heard privileged douches my whole life make assumptions about someone's incorrect assumptions about people's intelligence when they find out where they went to college. My neighborhood is filled with these legacy Ivy types that thumb their noses at the state school kids.

I worked full=time every summer and had a part-time job all through high school and undergrad. My full financial needs=based friends didn't' have to work.

It was me too. And my problem with the so-called donut hole family is that you are all upholding the same myth that the best job applicants come from the best schools. That cultural assumption needs to change.

How heavily does your employer recruit at Salisbury State and Frostburg State vs. higher ranked schools?

They don’t hire new grads but obviously they hired me, from Ho Hum State.

Where did u go? 3rd tier state school?

A Big 10.

So even your job doesn’t hire 3rd tier.

I don’t know I don’t work in HR. Do you?

Yes. I’ve worked in HR.

Then why don’t you go become an evangelist for the economic reality that great students go to affordable schools, even if they aren’t ranked well? Go write an op-ed.

And there’s that ho hum education you have showing it’s weaker side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

But that's the problem, college expenses have become exploitative for most family budgets. As PP suggests, your entire adult life you're now supposed to be either saving for college or paying off your loans. It's basically become a third layer of taxation in addition to state and federal.

College costs are INDEFENSIBLE here in the US. No other country in the world has such expensive university education, and yet many have excellent institutions. It IS exploitative.

It's like the cost of healthcare in this country. It does not need to be that high! Other wealthy nations do it for much less.

But here capitalism rules, the federal government has very little regulatory control compared to other countries... and we are left with this. Very little upward mobility in an erstwhile upwardly mobile country.

So you're all right where universities want you, suckers: bickering amongst yourselves, and forgetting that you are all being exploited BY THEM.

+1

Only in the US would people compare a university education with a luxury car.

Because only in the US do people feel entitled to the tippy top ranked universities for their kids, no matter what.
Most of Europe is not attending Cambridge or Oxford for undergrad. They are attending a nearby local university. Their kid was "tracked for college" sometime around 12/13 yo and if they do well on the testing that day, they may not be eligible for a STEM major 5 years later. Nobody is saying you can't get an education. We literally have hundreds of great choices, many offering merit. There are ways to attend college for minimal costs, you just wont attend a Top tier university. Just like much of Europe does not attend a Top tier university for their undergrad.

Wait a sec here. Most of the UK doesn't go to Oxbridge because they can't get in, not because they can't pay! We are talking about getting in to schools you can't pay for. In France for example, if you get into Polytechnique (the top engineering school), your tuition bill can be covered by military service following your studies, or in most cases, your first employer pays off your bill as part of the job offer. You rarely hear about someone in France qualifying for one of these schools and not going because they can't afford it.

The bolded is true in the US too. That's what ROTC is.

As a spouse of retired Enlisted, there is no way I'd let my kids do ROTC or anything else military related in college. They go to state schools that we can afford to pay for and if they want military afterward, they can go in as an Officer not oweing anything.

Donut Families can afford state schools. They can afford a lot more if they budgeted right. If you choose to pay for expensive housing, etc. that is your choice but then don't complain you cannot afford college. We live in a sh@t shack that is in a "lesser" neighborhood so we can afford college. No one cares where your kids go to high school. In all reality for many professions now, they don't care if you go to a private or public. The degree is what is important.

It’s easier for donut families to afford state schools in certain states more than others, because not all state systems are funded equally or give out appreciable scholarships/need based aid. MD and VA are actually pretty expensive as state schools go. I was shocked by how little my FL cousins, who were above average students but not valedictorian or anything, had to pay to attend the public universities there. Say what you will about FL but they do a better job on the college affordability front.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Complain about being a donut hole family? When there are thousands of colleges that could work between in state options and merit aid at lower tier privates and other oos public’s?l is it bc ivies and top 25 are not options?

Its because their kids don't get judged on their ability but on their parental assets and can't attend schools they are eligible for or want to attend. Unless parents are willing to sacrifice their hard earned savings and risk retirement , kids often can't afford anything but community college or some regional state campus with merit.

A true donut hole family should be able to afford $20-30K/year with savings and cashflow. That's well more than CC. Plenty of choices if you just try rather than complaining "we can't afford anything"

You still don't get it. Imagine a brilliant STEM student who already got into Stanford or MIT. But they end up going to a much lower ranked school ONLY because their family is too "rich" for FA and too poor to pay full ride. There's something wrong with that picture.

THAT WAS ME!!

And I have heard privileged douches my whole life make assumptions about someone's incorrect assumptions about people's intelligence when they find out where they went to college. My neighborhood is filled with these legacy Ivy types that thumb their noses at the state school kids.

I worked full=time every summer and had a part-time job all through high school and undergrad. My full financial needs=based friends didn't' have to work.

It was me too. And my problem with the so-called donut hole family is that you are all upholding the same myth that the best job applicants come from the best schools. That cultural assumption needs to change.

How heavily does your employer recruit at Salisbury State and Frostburg State vs. higher ranked schools?

They don’t hire new grads but obviously they hired me, from Ho Hum State.

Where did u go? 3rd tier state school?

A Big 10.

So even your job doesn’t hire 3rd tier.

My spouse went to a no-name school, ranked far less than Salisbury or Forstburg, and has done well enough with that degree. Those schools are fine.

That’s my goal for things to be “fine”. College sports teams should cheer that. Give me an F, give me and I….

If you want exceptional results go have some exceptional in-puts. Don’t sit around waiting for someone else to fund MIT for you.

LOL, I have to respond here. Over three decades ago, my HS BF got into a number of HYPSMs as well as "public" Ivies. His parents told him he would have to go to one of the public Ivies due to costs. One of the alumni interviewers, a very successful business owner, learned about it and offered to cover his tuition if his parents covered his room/board. His younger brother attended a public Ivy. They both went into the same field and both have had largely similar professional outcomes.

My no name school spouse makes more than my Ivy League doctor sibling. The school helps, but lots of other factors into it too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

But that's the problem, college expenses have become exploitative for most family budgets. As PP suggests, your entire adult life you're now supposed to be either saving for college or paying off your loans. It's basically become a third layer of taxation in addition to state and federal.

College costs are INDEFENSIBLE here in the US. No other country in the world has such expensive university education, and yet many have excellent institutions. It IS exploitative.

It's like the cost of healthcare in this country. It does not need to be that high! Other wealthy nations do it for much less.

But here capitalism rules, the federal government has very little regulatory control compared to other countries... and we are left with this. Very little upward mobility in an erstwhile upwardly mobile country.

So you're all right where universities want you, suckers: bickering amongst yourselves, and forgetting that you are all being exploited BY THEM.

+1

Only in the US would people compare a university education with a luxury car.

Because only in the US do people feel entitled to the tippy top ranked universities for their kids, no matter what.
Most of Europe is not attending Cambridge or Oxford for undergrad. They are attending a nearby local university. Their kid was "tracked for college" sometime around 12/13 yo and if they do well on the testing that day, they may not be eligible for a STEM major 5 years later. Nobody is saying you can't get an education. We literally have hundreds of great choices, many offering merit. There are ways to attend college for minimal costs, you just wont attend a Top tier university. Just like much of Europe does not attend a Top tier university for their undergrad.

Wait a sec here. Most of the UK doesn't go to Oxbridge because they can't get in, not because they can't pay! We are talking about getting in to schools you can't pay for. In France for example, if you get into Polytechnique (the top engineering school), your tuition bill can be covered by military service following your studies, or in most cases, your first employer pays off your bill as part of the job offer. You rarely hear about someone in France qualifying for one of these schools and not going because they can't afford it.

The bolded is true in the US too. That's what ROTC is.

As a spouse of retired Enlisted, there is no way I'd let my kids do ROTC or anything else military related in college. They go to state schools that we can afford to pay for and if they want military afterward, they can go in as an Officer not oweing anything.

Donut Families can afford state schools. They can afford a lot more if they budgeted right. If you choose to pay for expensive housing, etc. that is your choice but then don't complain you cannot afford college. We live in a sh@t shack that is in a "lesser" neighborhood so we can afford college. No one cares where your kids go to high school. In all reality for many professions now, they don't care if you go to a private or public. The degree is what is important.

It’s easier for donut families to afford state schools in certain states more than others, because not all state systems are funded equally or give out appreciable scholarships/need based aid. MD and VA are actually pretty expensive as state schools go. I was shocked by how little my FL cousins, who were above average students but not valedictorian or anything, had to pay to attend the public universities there. Say what you will about FL but they do a better job on the college affordability front.

UMD is not that expensive. Not sure about VA, but MD is $10K without room and board. So, yes, it was easy for us to save when we did it at birth and put our priority into college savings vs. an expensive house or vacations or other things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Our earnings would be lower elsewhere. It is also not realistic to think we could just move somewhere else and find employment. You seem to think this income implies a luxury lifestyle in NYC - we live in an outer borough, commute an hour to work in public transport, and send our kids to NYC public schools. Some people live in NY because they come from NY. I think you are very invested in the narrative that all donut hole families are whiners or have done something wrong. This makes you seem very self-righteous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


If we earn 225k in NYC, do you really think that we can save enough for private college by skipping luxury cars? We don't even have a frigging car! Maybe if we lived in Nebraska.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

That's not true. College costs have increased so much families can't hope to deny themselves every luxury to meet that cost. We're fortunate that we can afford any college, but most people can't, even if they tighten their belt.

Please don't be so ignorant and smug.

Once again, you choose to live in NYC. I know it's expensive and $225K isn't much there. But that is a choice you make. You could job search and move to somewhere with a lower COL (literally anywhere except SF/Boston would be less)

I don't live where I grew up. I choose to move elsewhere. I know how expensive NYC is---it's ridiculous. However, the fact is you still choose to stay there. That's a choice you made and that means you have to adjust to live with the choices. However, you live in NY state, where there are how many SUNY schools? All very affordable schools, most ~ $25K, all in. So if anything, you have more good instate schools to choose from than any other state. Kid gets a job and earns $10K/year to contribute to college, takes $5.5K federal loans, and parents contribute $10-15K per year. An affordable way to do college with minimal debt. You could even do it for less by choosing a school that you commute to from home, if that's what fits your family finances.

Our kids WILL go to SUNY schools and I'm not complaining about being donut hole. I'm objecting to being criticized for not having the savings to pay 80k/ year for college! I would love to know where YOU fall in this spectrum. Are you rich and criticizing people who have less than you? Poor and criticizing people who have more? Or donut hole yourself and judging everyone who doesn't do things exactly the way you do? Something tells me it's the latter... Ding Ding!!!!!

Not donut hole. Made smart financial choices all along. Picked a lifestyle that fit our jobs. Had 50% of what’s needed for 80k college for two kids befor our income was over $200k. So could have stopped saving when they youngest was 4-5 and had enough for $40k per year. But kept adding. We got there by living much more frugally than our friends at same ages/jobs.

I grew up poor and worked my ass off to not be poor. But I never felt entitled to something like college for free. I searched and found a place affordable to me, despite having stats for t10 (1480 and 4.0 uw 30+ years ago was top notch).



Rich now, but still drives a 14 yo vehicle with 150k miles because it’s a good car. Sure I’d like fancier and can certainly afford it but being financially savvy is a mindset that you don’t give up once you are wealthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is there a consensus on how much a donut hole family should be able to afford, like can almost everyone agree that a so-called donut hole family should be able to pay $30,000 per kid per year? Also, what is the generally accepted income range of a donut hole family?

A donut hole family should be $80K-140K depending on where you live but even so, we've managed to save just fine on that income. If you are making $150-300K, you can save for college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Complain about being a donut hole family? When there are thousands of colleges that could work between in state options and merit aid at lower tier privates and other oos public’s?l is it bc ivies and top 25 are not options?

Why do people on what would seem to be a fairly highly educated board not know how to pluralize words correctly?