What are your high stat kid’s safeties?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

. Why do you say that??
It's on par with many of the elite schools in major metrics.
It's actually under-ranked.

No, it’s not.
Here’s the Times Higher Education rankings (from two months ago) of the world’s 200 universities with the best reputations (as assessed by academics and administrators).

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2022/reputation-ranking#!/page/0/length/-1/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats

56 US universities are on that list. Most of the highest ranked ‘national universities’ on USNWR’s list make this Times list, as do a number of stronger state flagships. Northeastern isn’t on that list. It’s a fine school, but it’s not seen as on a par with the best universities in the country.

Yiu can try to dismiss the finding - there are always individual zealots who say they know better than all the experts - but the fact is, when you get past Northeastern’s low acceptance rate (yes, a lot of kids want to go to school in Boston and like the pre-professional co-op programs) and the anomalously high ranking on the USNWR list (other credible ranking systems put Northeastern considerably further down on the list of top 100 or so schools), what the data and assessments show is that Northeastern is a fine school like so many others but not one of the very top schools in the country or even in the Boston area. Congratulations to the kids who get in, and with reasonable effort they’ll likely get a good education. But we don’t have to listen to boosters from comparably ranked GWU or Michigan State - or higher ranked Rochester or Case Western - try to browbeat DCUM into agreeing those schools are actually now among the top/elite schools in the country, and the unrelenting effort by Northeastern’s boosters to do so only ends up,paradoxically, drawing more attention to the abundant evidence that the university isn’t.

LOL the world ranking says UC San Diego is better than schools like Duke, Northwestern.
Brown is 71-80
Dartmouth is 176-200

LMAO what a comedian

Look at the actual major metrics such as student stats, outcome, retention rate, etc.

The world rankings are based on incorrect data for #29 UC-San Diego and #42 Northwestern in the "number of students per staff" category. UC-San Diego's number should be higher, while Northwestern's should be much lower. If corrected, Northwestern would rank would enjoy a more impressive ranking and UC-San Diego would be ranked lower.

[Anonymous]

I’m not the PP but I think the below are great schools that could be considered safeties for some students and they are in USNWR 60-80 range:

Syracuse
University of MN Twin Cities
Pitt
University of Connecticut
North Carolina State
Michigan State


It is so interesting to me looking at the USNWR list, though, because some of their rankings don’t seem to match my reality at all. I live on the west coast, and the USNWR list is just so reflective of east coast attitudes and values. You can tell the editors haven’t spent much time hiring on the west coast. What I’m saying is that I’m skeptical of the list as a whole, but if you want to use it, there are some great schools in the 60-70 range.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

. Why do you say that??
It's on par with many of the elite schools in major metrics.
It's actually under-ranked.

No, it’s not.
Here’s the Times Higher Education rankings (from two months ago) of the world’s 200 universities with the best reputations (as assessed by academics and administrators).

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2022/reputation-ranking#!/page/0/length/-1/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats

56 US universities are on that list. Most of the highest ranked ‘national universities’ on USNWR’s list make this Times list, as do a number of stronger state flagships. Northeastern isn’t on that list. It’s a fine school, but it’s not seen as on a par with the best universities in the country.

Yiu can try to dismiss the finding - there are always individual zealots who say they know better than all the experts - but the fact is, when you get past Northeastern’s low acceptance rate (yes, a lot of kids want to go to school in Boston and like the pre-professional co-op programs) and the anomalously high ranking on the USNWR list (other credible ranking systems put Northeastern considerably further down on the list of top 100 or so schools), what the data and assessments show is that Northeastern is a fine school like so many others but not one of the very top schools in the country or even in the Boston area. Congratulations to the kids who get in, and with reasonable effort they’ll likely get a good education. But we don’t have to listen to boosters from comparably ranked GWU or Michigan State - or higher ranked Rochester or Case Western - try to browbeat DCUM into agreeing those schools are actually now among the top/elite schools in the country, and the unrelenting effort by Northeastern’s boosters to do so only ends up,paradoxically, drawing more attention to the abundant evidence that the university isn’t.

LOL the world ranking says UC San Diego is better than schools like Duke, Northwestern.
Brown is 71-80
Dartmouth is 176-200

LMAO what a comedian

Look at the actual major metrics such as student stats, outcome, retention rate, etc.

The world rankings are based on incorrect data for #29 UC-San Diego and #42 Northwestern in the "number of students per staff" category. UC-San Diego's number should be higher, while Northwestern's should be much lower. If corrected, Northwestern would rank would enjoy a more impressive ranking and UC-San Diego would be ranked lower.

+1

If you look at that “world rankings” list closely, there are actually a shocking number of flaws and obvious mistakes. The inability to distinguish individual campuses for some university systems but distinguish them for others is a bizarrely basic mistake. They also, as you point out, have some of the numerical data flat-out wrong.

Idk who produced that garbage, but if a casual reader can immediately spot several obvious and glaring errors, it’s not a list worth spending time discussing.

[Anonymous]

It's wild to me how Northeastern isn't even a safety for top students anymore. Whatever they did to game the rankings, they did a good job, because 25 years ago they were a school of last resort. My cousin, who might generously be described as a "dim bulb," went there after getting rejected by almost every other school he applied to, including UMass Amherst, which wasn't exactly a bastion of selectivity in those days, either. I think his only other option might have been UMass Dartmouth. My uncle, his own father, used to call him "Short Bus" because of his lack of intellectual prowess. He actually graduated, too, though he was on the 6-7 year plan. Now he does some sort of sales and I guess does OK - he's one of those lovable dumb guys, kind of a John Candy in Planes, Trains, and Automobiles type. But he's the absolute last person you'd assume went to an elite college, which I guess technically he did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's wild to me how Northeastern isn't even a safety for top students anymore. Whatever they did to game the rankings, they did a good job, because 25 years ago they were a school of last resort. My cousin, who might generously be described as a "dim bulb," went there after getting rejected by almost every other school he applied to, including UMass Amherst, which wasn't exactly a bastion of selectivity in those days, either. I think his only other option might have been UMass Dartmouth. My uncle, his own father, used to call him "Short Bus" because of his lack of intellectual prowess. He actually graduated, too, though he was on the 6-7 year plan. Now he does some sort of sales and I guess does OK - he's one of those lovable dumb guys, kind of a John Candy in Planes, Trains, and Automobiles type. But he's the absolute last person you'd assume went to an elite college, which I guess technically he did.

It’s always wild to me how people have no problem openly displaying how genuinely awful their families are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m not the PP but I think the below are great schools that could be considered safeties for some students and they are in USNWR 60-80 range:

Syracuse
University of MN Twin Cities
Pitt
University of Connecticut
North Carolina State
Michigan State


It is so interesting to me looking at the USNWR list, though, because some of their rankings don’t seem to match my reality at all. I live on the west coast, and the USNWR list is just so reflective of east coast attitudes and values. You can tell the editors haven’t spent much time hiring on the west coast. What I’m saying is that I’m skeptical of the list as a whole, but if you want to use it, there are some great schools in the 60-70 range.

I don't understand. US News ranks the UC schools very highly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

. Why do you say that??
It's on par with many of the elite schools in major metrics.
It's actually under-ranked.

No, it’s not.
Here’s the Times Higher Education rankings (from two months ago) of the world’s 200 universities with the best reputations (as assessed by academics and administrators).

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2022/reputation-ranking#!/page/0/length/-1/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats

56 US universities are on that list. Most of the highest ranked ‘national universities’ on USNWR’s list make this Times list, as do a number of stronger state flagships. Northeastern isn’t on that list. It’s a fine school, but it’s not seen as on a par with the best universities in the country.

Yiu can try to dismiss the finding - there are always individual zealots who say they know better than all the experts - but the fact is, when you get past Northeastern’s low acceptance rate (yes, a lot of kids want to go to school in Boston and like the pre-professional co-op programs) and the anomalously high ranking on the USNWR list (other credible ranking systems put Northeastern considerably further down on the list of top 100 or so schools), what the data and assessments show is that Northeastern is a fine school like so many others but not one of the very top schools in the country or even in the Boston area. Congratulations to the kids who get in, and with reasonable effort they’ll likely get a good education. But we don’t have to listen to boosters from comparably ranked GWU or Michigan State - or higher ranked Rochester or Case Western - try to browbeat DCUM into agreeing those schools are actually now among the top/elite schools in the country, and the unrelenting effort by Northeastern’s boosters to do so only ends up,paradoxically, drawing more attention to the abundant evidence that the university isn’t.

Why are you so passionate about the subject? You are embarrassing yourself.

DP. Nice comeback.
But, seriously, I too don't get the extreme boosterism for neu (or the extreme trashing of it, for that matter). I have issues with some of the Times order that PP references, but, other than that, PP is on the money here. It's a fine school that is overhyped. Can we move on now?

NP. Serious question, I've seen the reference to NEU as overhyped on many threads. Great location with smart kids and a popular co-op program. What makes it overhyped? Poor education? Poor job prospects? I honestly don't know. Rather than 10% acceptance rate it was 50, would that cease to make it overhyped?

I’m the NP who pointed out that the PP criticizing NEU didn’t understand her own link. I don’t have a tie to NEU. But I think that there are a few obsessed haters who post ALL the time, sort of like the Meghan Markle haters, SLAC haters, or the University of Chicago haters. I don’t think you are seeing a big group of people who think NEU is overhyped, I think you are seeing a few relentless borderline spammers who are hate-obsessed with the school. I don’t consider any of those groups of posters to be rational people, and I’d be skeptical of their posts.

NP. No child at NEU, no child applying to NEU (although I thought it was worth looking at, she did not).

This is out of control. Literally very few people other those that have kids going or applying think a lot about NEU. There are a few posters on this DCUM forum that feel the need to boost NEU and its accomplishments in every thread about elite universities or rankings. It is not the haters, it is the booster that bring out the derision. It is a very good school with a great co op program, there are many very good schools. It is so wonderful to have a school that would fit many, but that does not make it elite. Whatever elite means, it does not mean Northeastern.

The boosters are making everyone that is not a booster be annoyed by Northeastern. That is too bad, because it is a very good school.

Most of those threads are actually by poorly disguised haters, though. They stuff like “it’s ultra elite and the best school in boston!”and “it’s great because it’s expanding like a bunch of Krispy Kreme franchises!” These are not actual people who are deranged fans. they’re haters trying to stir the pot and make people who think it’s a strong school with smart kids seem like absurd and deluded nutters. -have a positive yet not delusional view of the school and think it’s a great choice for lots many kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree w the acceptance rate/yield rate being super important for tire safeties. Of course a kid w truly high stats would get into a BU/BC or trinity/conn college if they EDed as they are well above the 75th percentile. But this type of school cares about those rates and know this kid won’t matriculate so may not waste an acceptance on an otherwise over qualified candidate.

A kid with truly high stats who EDs BU or BC will not definitely get in. It just hasn't been the case in the last cycle or two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This isn’t a universal question. You have to pay attention to the data from your specific school. My kid was told W&M and BC were safeties. These are not traditionally safeties (and amazing schools) but kids with similar stats had never been denied, even in non-binding admit situations. Most of this board will argue with this though. And kid was applying to UMD and others too in case.

Really interested in this too. Can you share stats, in state or OOS and when this was?

Kid is at OOS private. Would be considered close to top of class (pretty sure but no class rank) with most rigorous (highest level math, history, foreign language) and fair number of activities. 1580 SAT. I am not sure these safeties would be applicable in other situations - and college office also encouraged kid to apply to 2 additional safeties (and acknowledged BC was getting harder to predict). Kid was accepted REA so won’t submit and/or will pull applications so the theory won’t be tested.

My point for posting this is not to suggest particular schools as safeties but to remind folks that an applicant should look at their specific school data for guidance. I am sure at other schools there would be choices considered safeties that would not be considered as such at my kid’s school.

[Anonymous]

I understand your point about how defining a safety can depend on the high school.
Generally speaking for most applicants, I would recommend folks be really conservative in their definition.
I don't have any skin in the game as my last one was just accepted ED. We went through last year's cycle as well as this year's. It's great to be done, and I'm rooting for the rest of you to have a good result as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's wild to me how Northeastern isn't even a safety for top students anymore. Whatever they did to game the rankings, they did a good job, because 25 years ago they were a school of last resort. My cousin, who might generously be described as a "dim bulb," went there after getting rejected by almost every other school he applied to, including UMass Amherst, which wasn't exactly a bastion of selectivity in those days, either. I think his only other option might have been UMass Dartmouth. My uncle, his own father, used to call him "Short Bus" because of his lack of intellectual prowess. He actually graduated, too, though he was on the 6-7 year plan. Now he does some sort of sales and I guess does OK - he's one of those lovable dumb guys, kind of a John Candy in Planes, Trains, and Automobiles type. But he's the absolute last person you'd assume went to an elite college, which I guess technically he did.

who cares about 25 years ago.
Other elite schools had 30 40 50 60% acceptance rate 25 30 years ago. So what.

Welcome to the 21st century.

[Anonymous]

Don't feed the troll.

[Anonymous]

well with all this Northeastern talk, i just had to check the stats

“Of the record-large pool of 90,989 applicants, only 6,179 were admitted, or about 6.7%, Northeastern spokesperson Shannon Nargi wrote in an email statement”

looks like a heavy TO policy probably helped, as about 60% of applicants were TO. Couldn’t find breakdown of accepted or enrolled students.

But like the school or hate the school, when you are approaching 100k applicants, you’re doing something right in terms of branding and marketing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Super important that folks are conservative when it comes to definition of reach/safety/target for your student. Reaches are a dime a dozen. Targets can be elusive. Safeties can be hard to find.

Safeties are not difficult to find. Top 25% of scores/gpa, acceptance rate above 50% and a school your kid really wants to attend. Oh and show demonstrated interest to minimize yield protection chances.

The issue seems to be that many "high stats" kids don't want to attend anywhere but T20. Trust that they will go far even at a T50 school or T100 school.

You say in the first paragraph that safeties are not difficult to find but then you also say that a safety is somewhere they want to attend. As you acknowledge in the second paragraph, that is the issue for many high stats kids and why they have trouble finding safeties.

Agree

but the reason they have issues finding a safety is because of societal pressures---parents, family, friends, etc who make it seem if you don't attend a T20 you are a loser and going nowhere in life. That needs to change. Once you eliminate those pressures a kid with stats for T20 schools should be smart enough to step back and evaluate a school and find a great one that's not T20. It can be done. In actuality the difference between a T20 and T50 school are not that much--there will be very smart kids at both and opportunities abounding. It's what you do once you get there that matters more.

My own kid found an amazing safety ---ranked in the 60s. It was a top 3 final contender up until the end. Why? Because it's a hidden gem that really is an amazing school. Had it been a normal semester school rather than 4, 7 week quarter school, my own kid would likely be there now. Basically my kid loved everything about it except the fast paced quarters and realize that as a procrastinator, this might not be the best overall environment. But my kid was also in at two T40 schools and seriously considered this other school. Why---because the differences are not that much overall---for them it was about the best fit. Ultimately they choose the best fit for them.

So yes, there are plenty of T100 schools that can be viable contenders for "safeties", and yes these can be found even in areas your kid actually wants to be. My own kid is at a school that is not the most exciting city, that was the only major turnoff for them. But overall it was the best fit, so they picked it and are very happy there.

Are you willing to share the name of the amazing safety school ranked in the 60s ? TIA

wPI—if your kid is stem focused it’s an amazing school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

. Why do you say that??
It's on par with many of the elite schools in major metrics.
It's actually under-ranked.

No, it’s not.
Here’s the Times Higher Education rankings (from two months ago) of the world’s 200 universities with the best reputations (as assessed by academics and administrators).

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2022/reputation-ranking#!/page/0/length/-1/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats

56 US universities are on that list. Most of the highest ranked ‘national universities’ on USNWR’s list make this Times list, as do a number of stronger state flagships. Northeastern isn’t on that list. It’s a fine school, but it’s not seen as on a par with the best universities in the country.

Yiu can try to dismiss the finding - there are always individual zealots who say they know better than all the experts - but the fact is, when you get past Northeastern’s low acceptance rate (yes, a lot of kids want to go to school in Boston and like the pre-professional co-op programs) and the anomalously high ranking on the USNWR list (other credible ranking systems put Northeastern considerably further down on the list of top 100 or so schools), what the data and assessments show is that Northeastern is a fine school like so many others but not one of the very top schools in the country or even in the Boston area. Congratulations to the kids who get in, and with reasonable effort they’ll likely get a good education. But we don’t have to listen to boosters from comparably ranked GWU or Michigan State - or higher ranked Rochester or Case Western - try to browbeat DCUM into agreeing those schools are actually now among the top/elite schools in the country, and the unrelenting effort by Northeastern’s boosters to do so only ends up,paradoxically, drawing more attention to the abundant evidence that the university isn’t.

Why are you so passionate about the subject? You are embarrassing yourself.

DP. Nice comeback.
But, seriously, I too don't get the extreme boosterism for neu (or the extreme trashing of it, for that matter). I have issues with some of the Times order that PP references, but, other than that, PP is on the money here. It's a fine school that is overhyped. Can we move on now?

NP. Serious question, I've seen the reference to NEU as overhyped on many threads. Great location with smart kids and a popular co-op program. What makes it overhyped? Poor education? Poor job prospects? I honestly don't know. Rather than 10% acceptance rate it was 50, would that cease to make it overhyped?

I’m the NP who pointed out that the PP criticizing NEU didn’t understand her own link. I don’t have a tie to NEU. But I think that there are a few obsessed haters who post ALL the time, sort of like the Meghan Markle haters, SLAC haters, or the University of Chicago haters. I don’t think you are seeing a big group of people who think NEU is overhyped, I think you are seeing a few relentless borderline spammers who are hate-obsessed with the school. I don’t consider any of those groups of posters to be rational people, and I’d be skeptical of their posts.

NP. No child at NEU, no child applying to NEU (although I thought it was worth looking at, she did not).

This is out of control. Literally very few people other those that have kids going or applying think a lot about NEU. There are a few posters on this DCUM forum that feel the need to boost NEU and its accomplishments in every thread about elite universities or rankings. It is not the haters, it is the booster that bring out the derision. It is a very good school with a great co op program, there are many very good schools. It is so wonderful to have a school that would fit many, but that does not make it elite. Whatever elite means, it does not mean Northeastern.

The boosters are making everyone that is not a booster be annoyed by Northeastern. That is too bad, because it is a very good school.

Most of those threads are actually by poorly disguised haters, though. They stuff like “it’s ultra elite and the best school in boston!”and “it’s great because it’s expanding like a bunch of Krispy Kreme franchises!” These are not actual people who are deranged fans. they’re haters trying to stir the pot and make people who think it’s a strong school with smart kids seem like absurd and deluded nutters. -have a positive yet not delusional view of the school and think it’s a great choice for lots many kids

My kids got rejected by schools. Some of them we thought had high chances, but well maybe it was yield protection, maybe just bad luck.  
Oh well move on.  In the end, very happy with the final choice. No hard feelings with any school.

These haters/bashers' obsession is unbelievable.