Why Does Johns Hopkins Get Destroyed in Cross-Admit Battles with Peer Schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It does not seem like it would be much of a traditional college experience. A good place for grad school, but not for undergrads

The student body is over-the-top, smart. But it’s my understanding that the campus doesn’t have a mix of kids and the kids. They are so hyper focused on mathematics, science, learning, etc. that they go to bed at 9 PM and wake up at 4:30 AM. Some kids want somewhat of a college experience for undergrad.

I read another strand in DC urban moms that they don’t even have parties on days like Halloween.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It does not seem like it would be much of a traditional college experience. A good place for grad school, but not for undergrads

The student body is over-the-top, smart. But it’s my understanding that the campus doesn’t have a mix of kids and the kids. They are so hyper focused on mathematics, science, learning, etc. that they go to bed at 9 PM and wake up at 4:30 AM. Some kids want somewhat of a college experience for undergrad.

I read another strand in DC urban moms that they don’t even have parties on days like Halloween.

I disagree. They have good groups of kids who like to have fun too. I'd put it above Chicago fun wise (maybe because there are not so many Big 3 kids? )and not so "odd-guy" and Greek centric as MIT (one of the few schools still majority male for both undergrad and grad schools and where 40% are involved in Greek life or a living group). The student body enjoys lacrosse when that team is doing well and people seem to find a group that works for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was looking at some cross-admit data and I was shocked by how poorly JHU does in attracting students away from peer schools. Does anyone have any insight into why this might be?

What is the source of the cross admit data that the posters have been discussing? I'm late to this thread. Would you mind sharing the reference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was looking at some cross-admit data and I was shocked by how poorly JHU does in attracting students away from peer schools. Does anyone have any insight into why this might be?

What is the source of the cross admit data that the posters have been discussing? I'm late to this thread. Would you mind sharing the reference?

Not OP but only two sources have been used: Parchment and Cornell's public cross-admit announcement.

Cross-Admit Data with Some of the Ivy League

Johns Hopkins 16% - Yale 84%
Johns Hopkins 19% - Columbia 81%
Johns Hopkins 41% - Dartmouth 59%
Johns Hopkins 49% - Cornell 51%

Cross-Admit Data with Some of the Top Non-Ivy League

Johns Hopkins 15% - Stanford 85%
Johns Hopkins 19% - Duke 81%
Johns Hopkins 31% - UChicago 69%
Johns Hopkins 35% - Northwestern 65%
Johns Hopkins 44% - Rice 56%
Johns Hopkins 53% - WashU 47%
Johns Hopkins 61% - Vanderbilt 39%

Cornell Announcement

“Of the students who said where they planned to enroll, they most often chose the Ivies, Stanford, Duke or MIT over Cornell, Keane said. Princeton and Harvard were each the choice of 7 percent of accepted students who declined Cornell; UPenn and MIT were each the choice of 5 percent; Duke and Yale were each the choice of 4 percent; and Columbia, Stanford and Dartmouth University were each the choice of 3 percent.”

It's presumed Cornell loses 1-2% of total admits to Hopkins (and they split ~50-50 for students accepted to both schools).

[Anonymous]

Johns Hopkins 50% - Notre Dame 50%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was looking at some cross-admit data and I was shocked by how poorly JHU does in attracting students away from peer schools. Does anyone have any insight into why this might be?

What is the source of the cross admit data that the posters have been discussing? I'm late to this thread. Would you mind sharing the reference?

Not OP but only two sources have been used: Parchment and Cornell's public cross-admit announcement.

Cross-Admit Data with Some of the Ivy League

Johns Hopkins 16% - Yale 84%
Johns Hopkins 19% - Columbia 81%
Johns Hopkins 41% - Dartmouth 59%
Johns Hopkins 49% - Cornell 51%

Cross-Admit Data with Some of the Top Non-Ivy League

Johns Hopkins 15% - Stanford 85%
Johns Hopkins 19% - Duke 81%
Johns Hopkins 31% - UChicago 69%
Johns Hopkins 35% - Northwestern 65%
Johns Hopkins 44% - Rice 56%
Johns Hopkins 53% - WashU 47%
Johns Hopkins 61% - Vanderbilt 39%

Cornell Announcement

“Of the students who said where they planned to enroll, they most often chose the Ivies, Stanford, Duke or MIT over Cornell, Keane said. Princeton and Harvard were each the choice of 7 percent of accepted students who declined Cornell; UPenn and MIT were each the choice of 5 percent; Duke and Yale were each the choice of 4 percent; and Columbia, Stanford and Dartmouth University were each the choice of 3 percent.”

It's presumed Cornell loses 1-2% of total admits to Hopkins (and they split ~50-50 for students accepted to both schools).

I think people know this from other threads but Parchment data is incomplete and not overly reliable. I was hoping someone had leaked some real data! When I worked in one particular type of grad admissions, we got good data every year!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Johns Hopkins 50% - Notre Dame 50%

Interesting that Swarthmore (67%) and Williams (56%) are preferred to Hopkins yet Hopkins is preferred to Amherst (30%).

[Anonymous]

DCUM is a great example of people being obsessed with a sports league (Ivy)... that no one here wants to continue to admit so many good athletes. Not being an "Ivy" hurts Hopkins and a lot of other top schools even if they have more resources than some in the Ancient 8.

Georgetown is a more widely known name and in a better location within the region, so the slight Georgetown preference (60%) despite the USNWR rankings difference isn't shocking.

Hopkins hasn't done especially well with marketing beyond the healthcare system and med school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Johns Hopkins 50% - Notre Dame 50%

Interesting that Swarthmore (67%) and Williams (56%) are preferred to Hopkins yet Hopkins is preferred to Amherst (30%).

Comparison between national university and LAC is probably less reliable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It does not seem like it would be much of a traditional college experience. A good place for grad school, but not for undergrads

The student body is over-the-top, smart. But it’s my understanding that the campus doesn’t have a mix of kids and the kids. They are so hyper focused on mathematics, science, learning, etc. that they go to bed at 9 PM and wake up at 4:30 AM. Some kids want somewhat of a college experience for undergrad.

I read another strand in DC urban moms that they don’t even have parties on days like Halloween.

Seriously you all are a bunch of weirdos

Former Hopkims undergrad here, rest assured there are parties every weekend, including Halloween. A sizable portion of the students are involved in Greek life. A sizable portion of the student are involved in either D1 or D3 athletics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCUM is a great example of people being obsessed with a sports league (Ivy)... that no one here wants to continue to admit so many good athletes. Not being an "Ivy" hurts Hopkins and a lot of other top schools even if they have more resources than some in the Ancient 8.

Georgetown is a more widely known name and in a better location within the region, so the slight Georgetown preference (60%) despite the USNWR rankings difference isn't shocking.

Hopkins hasn't done especially well with marketing beyond the healthcare system and med school.

Which is why Hopkins undergrad is currently ranked 7th by US News and has an acceptance rate around 6 percent. Horrible marketing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Because it's not peers with those schools?

Hopkins is overranked because of federal funding for its medical research and Applied Physics Lab. While I'm sure the medical research has some carryover for undergrad students in biological sciences, it doesn't do much for anything outside of those subjects. The APL is based a 30 minutes drive off campus so it's not of much use to physics/engineering undergrad students.

The Ivies are Ivies, and therefore recognized globally. Duke is well-recognized nationally in every industry due to it's breadth of competencies and also basketball. Hopkins is well recognized nationally but primarily as a pre-med school.

How could you live in this area and be totally ignorant of SAIS?

SAIS is a graduate school and based in DC, again not very relevant to undergrads.

Exactly. Hopkins' best to offer in terms of academics are not very relevant to undergrads. Be it medical school or SAIS. The political science department, which is actually based in Baltimore, is separate from SAIS and the rankings are in the 40s, which is pretty low for a school of its caliber. Definitely not a top-tier department.

Again, you reveal you have no clue what you are talking about. International studies is a different major than poly sci. And here’s the rankings. https://www.collegefactual.com/majors/social-sciences/international-relations-national-security/rankings/top-ranked/

Dear, I absolutely know what I am talking about. Foreign Policy's rankings on IR programs - https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/02/20/top-fifty-schools-international-relations-foreign-policy/

Top 5 undergrad IR programs

Harvard
Princeton
Stanford
Georgetown
Columbia

and JHU at #15.

Top 5 grad IR programs (Master's degree)

Georgetown
Harvard
JHU
Princeton
Columbia

Top 5 grad IR programs

Havard
Princeton
Stanford
Columbia
Chicago

JHU again at #16

Grad and undergrad, two very different things. Still, my point stands. What is offered at the Homewood campus is very different from its other campuses. There is a big disconnect between grad and undergrad programs at JHU, and it's not uncommon to JHU. Many grad-heavy institutions have a similar problem. Simple as that.

The ranking I cited was obviously different but even using the worst one you could find, undergrad IR at Hopkins is T15. Sorry it is so difficult for you to ever acknowledge you are wrong.

T15 out of 50 schools does not make it a leading program. On the other hand, SAIS masters are indisputably leading programs. I don't disagree with you on that. I am simply saying there is a huge gap between grad and undergrad prestige and JHU's prestige is largely built off its grad, NOT undergrad programs. JHU has invested little in its undergrad programs until recently. And this is reflected in the poor cross-admit preferences between JHU and its peer schools and other lower ranked ivies. I really hope the Bloomberg donation could make a difference in the next 10-15 years, but I don't understand why pointing out this existing problem between perceived and actual prestige is so triggering to some of you staunch defenders.

Perhaps it is obvious to those of us that actually attended the school that you know nothing about it. Just a page or two ago, you didn’t know that international studies was a different major than political science. Now you claim to be an expert on ranking the international studies program. You want to disregard the ranking that had it first for undergrad international studies and focus on the one that found it fifteenth as if that is somehow definitive. It also simply isn’t true that there is no relationship between Hopkins undergrads and SAIS. SAIS professors occasionally teach a course at Homewood (I personally took a course on African politics taught by a SAIS professor as an undergrad), undergrads commonly study abroad at SAIS Europe in Bologna, and there is a five year BA/MA program where three years are at Homewood and two are at SAIS.

The better question is why someone who knows so little about the school is willing to devote so much time to attacking it.

Foreign Policy magazine is far more authoritative than whatever your "college factual" ranking is, which, in my opinion, is by no means "factual" at all if they place SAIS's undergrad #1 in the country in terms of international studies. Care to provide metrics fo your ranking? The FP ranking is actually based on surveys of IR experts in the field and shows how the programs are perceived by authoritative experts - by the way, I hardly know any top-notch IR experts coming out of Hopkins, having studied IR extensively myself, but you can easily name IR giants from any of the top 5 schools like Harvard (Joseph Nye, Sam Huntington), Stanford (Stephen Walt, Frank Fukuyama), Princeton (John Ikenberry), Columbia (Robert Jervis), Chicago (John Mearsheimer), and Berkeley (Kenneth Waltz).

I am not devoting time to attacking it, I'm just trying to give you a realistic view of how JHU is perceived beyond your own myopic alumni circles. Sorry if it shatters your illusions but facts are often unpleasant to the ear.

Oh please, I could care less what you think, I gave you three different rankings that have Hopkins in the T 10. As if I or anyone else would believe the anonymous poster who didn’t know the difference between a poly sci and an IR major at Hopkins is some type of IR guru.

In any case, that Hopkins IR major took me to a T5 law school and then the DC office of a major law firm where I practiced in an area of international law, so it worked out just fine for me.

Not PP but 15 pages of posters care and tons of college applicants do, which is reflected by the low cross-admit rates.

15 pages and nothing but Parchment data which is pretty universally acknowledges to be deeply flawed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it's not peers with those schools?

Hopkins is overranked because of federal funding for its medical research and Applied Physics Lab. While I'm sure the medical research has some carryover for undergrad students in biological sciences, it doesn't do much for anything outside of those subjects. The APL is based a 30 minutes drive off campus so it's not of much use to physics/engineering undergrad students.

The Ivies are Ivies, and therefore recognized globally. Duke is well-recognized nationally in every industry due to it's breadth of competencies and also basketball. Hopkins is well recognized nationally but primarily as a pre-med school.

How could you live in this area and be totally ignorant of SAIS?

SAIS is a graduate school and based in DC, again not very relevant to undergrads.

Exactly. Hopkins' best to offer in terms of academics are not very relevant to undergrads. Be it medical school or SAIS. The political science department, which is actually based in Baltimore, is separate from SAIS and the rankings are in the 40s, which is pretty low for a school of its caliber. Definitely not a top-tier department.

Again, you reveal you have no clue what you are talking about. International studies is a different major than poly sci. And here’s the rankings. https://www.collegefactual.com/majors/social-sciences/international-relations-national-security/rankings/top-ranked/

Dear, I absolutely know what I am talking about. Foreign Policy's rankings on IR programs - https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/02/20/top-fifty-schools-international-relations-foreign-policy/

Top 5 undergrad IR programs

Harvard
Princeton
Stanford
Georgetown
Columbia

and JHU at #15.

Top 5 grad IR programs (Master's degree)

Georgetown
Harvard
JHU
Princeton
Columbia

Top 5 grad IR programs

Havard
Princeton
Stanford
Columbia
Chicago

JHU again at #16

Grad and undergrad, two very different things. Still, my point stands. What is offered at the Homewood campus is very different from its other campuses. There is a big disconnect between grad and undergrad programs at JHU, and it's not uncommon to JHU. Many grad-heavy institutions have a similar problem. Simple as that.

The ranking I cited was obviously different but even using the worst one you could find, undergrad IR at Hopkins is T15. Sorry it is so difficult for you to ever acknowledge you are wrong.

T15 out of 50 schools does not make it a leading program. On the other hand, SAIS masters are indisputably leading programs. I don't disagree with you on that. I am simply saying there is a huge gap between grad and undergrad prestige and JHU's prestige is largely built off its grad, NOT undergrad programs. JHU has invested little in its undergrad programs until recently. And this is reflected in the poor cross-admit preferences between JHU and its peer schools and other lower ranked ivies. I really hope the Bloomberg donation could make a difference in the next 10-15 years, but I don't understand why pointing out this existing problem between perceived and actual prestige is so triggering to some of you staunch defenders.

Perhaps it is obvious to those of us that actually attended the school that you know nothing about it. Just a page or two ago, you didn’t know that international studies was a different major than political science. Now you claim to be an expert on ranking the international studies program. You want to disregard the ranking that had it first for undergrad international studies and focus on the one that found it fifteenth as if that is somehow definitive. It also simply isn’t true that there is no relationship between Hopkins undergrads and SAIS. SAIS professors occasionally teach a course at Homewood (I personally took a course on African politics taught by a SAIS professor as an undergrad), undergrads commonly study abroad at SAIS Europe in Bologna, and there is a five year BA/MA program where three years are at Homewood and two are at SAIS.

The better question is why someone who knows so little about the school is willing to devote so much time to attacking it.

Foreign Policy magazine is far more authoritative than whatever your "college factual" ranking is, which, in my opinion, is by no means "factual" at all if they place SAIS's undergrad #1 in the country in terms of international studies. Care to provide metrics fo your ranking? The FP ranking is actually based on surveys of IR experts in the field and shows how the programs are perceived by authoritative experts - by the way, I hardly know any top-notch IR experts coming out of Hopkins, having studied IR extensively myself, but you can easily name IR giants from any of the top 5 schools like Harvard (Joseph Nye, Sam Huntington), Stanford (Stephen Walt, Frank Fukuyama), Princeton (John Ikenberry), Columbia (Robert Jervis), Chicago (John Mearsheimer), and Berkeley (Kenneth Waltz).

I am not devoting time to attacking it, I'm just trying to give you a realistic view of how JHU is perceived beyond your own myopic alumni circles. Sorry if it shatters your illusions but facts are often unpleasant to the ear.

Oh please, I could care less what you think, I gave you three different rankings that have Hopkins in the T 10. As if I or anyone else would believe the anonymous poster who didn’t know the difference between a poly sci and an IR major at Hopkins is some type of IR guru.

In any case, that Hopkins IR major took me to a T5 law school and then the DC office of a major law firm where I practiced in an area of international law, so it worked out just fine for me.

Not PP but 15 pages of posters care and tons of college applicants do, which is reflected by the low cross-admit rates.

15 pages and nothing but Parchment data which is pretty universally acknowledges to be deeply flawed.

Nope, while Parchment isn’t perfect I don’t believe it is deeply flawed for all its outputs. The most people who have major issues with Parchment simply don’t like what they see

[Anonymous]

https://www.chronicle.com/article/who-does-your-college-think-its-peers-are#id=198419

Another source of looking at peer schools - what schools consider JHU as its peers? And the answer is:

Stanford, UChicago, Northwestern, Brown, Cornell, Vanderbilt, WUSTL, Rice, Notre Dame, USC, NYU... so why don't we start from here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it's not peers with those schools?

Hopkins is overranked because of federal funding for its medical research and Applied Physics Lab. While I'm sure the medical research has some carryover for undergrad students in biological sciences, it doesn't do much for anything outside of those subjects. The APL is based a 30 minutes drive off campus so it's not of much use to physics/engineering undergrad students.

The Ivies are Ivies, and therefore recognized globally. Duke is well-recognized nationally in every industry due to it's breadth of competencies and also basketball. Hopkins is well recognized nationally but primarily as a pre-med school.

How could you live in this area and be totally ignorant of SAIS?

SAIS is a graduate school and based in DC, again not very relevant to undergrads.

Exactly. Hopkins' best to offer in terms of academics are not very relevant to undergrads. Be it medical school or SAIS. The political science department, which is actually based in Baltimore, is separate from SAIS and the rankings are in the 40s, which is pretty low for a school of its caliber. Definitely not a top-tier department.

Again, you reveal you have no clue what you are talking about. International studies is a different major than poly sci. And here’s the rankings. https://www.collegefactual.com/majors/social-sciences/international-relations-national-security/rankings/top-ranked/

Dear, I absolutely know what I am talking about. Foreign Policy's rankings on IR programs - https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/02/20/top-fifty-schools-international-relations-foreign-policy/

Top 5 undergrad IR programs

Harvard
Princeton
Stanford
Georgetown
Columbia

and JHU at #15.

Top 5 grad IR programs (Master's degree)

Georgetown
Harvard
JHU
Princeton
Columbia

Top 5 grad IR programs

Havard
Princeton
Stanford
Columbia
Chicago

JHU again at #16

Grad and undergrad, two very different things. Still, my point stands. What is offered at the Homewood campus is very different from its other campuses. There is a big disconnect between grad and undergrad programs at JHU, and it's not uncommon to JHU. Many grad-heavy institutions have a similar problem. Simple as that.

The ranking I cited was obviously different but even using the worst one you could find, undergrad IR at Hopkins is T15. Sorry it is so difficult for you to ever acknowledge you are wrong.

T15 out of 50 schools does not make it a leading program. On the other hand, SAIS masters are indisputably leading programs. I don't disagree with you on that. I am simply saying there is a huge gap between grad and undergrad prestige and JHU's prestige is largely built off its grad, NOT undergrad programs. JHU has invested little in its undergrad programs until recently. And this is reflected in the poor cross-admit preferences between JHU and its peer schools and other lower ranked ivies. I really hope the Bloomberg donation could make a difference in the next 10-15 years, but I don't understand why pointing out this existing problem between perceived and actual prestige is so triggering to some of you staunch defenders.

Perhaps it is obvious to those of us that actually attended the school that you know nothing about it. Just a page or two ago, you didn’t know that international studies was a different major than political science. Now you claim to be an expert on ranking the international studies program. You want to disregard the ranking that had it first for undergrad international studies and focus on the one that found it fifteenth as if that is somehow definitive. It also simply isn’t true that there is no relationship between Hopkins undergrads and SAIS. SAIS professors occasionally teach a course at Homewood (I personally took a course on African politics taught by a SAIS professor as an undergrad), undergrads commonly study abroad at SAIS Europe in Bologna, and there is a five year BA/MA program where three years are at Homewood and two are at SAIS.

The better question is why someone who knows so little about the school is willing to devote so much time to attacking it.

Foreign Policy magazine is far more authoritative than whatever your "college factual" ranking is, which, in my opinion, is by no means "factual" at all if they place SAIS's undergrad #1 in the country in terms of international studies. Care to provide metrics fo your ranking? The FP ranking is actually based on surveys of IR experts in the field and shows how the programs are perceived by authoritative experts - by the way, I hardly know any top-notch IR experts coming out of Hopkins, having studied IR extensively myself, but you can easily name IR giants from any of the top 5 schools like Harvard (Joseph Nye, Sam Huntington), Stanford (Stephen Walt, Frank Fukuyama), Princeton (John Ikenberry), Columbia (Robert Jervis), Chicago (John Mearsheimer), and Berkeley (Kenneth Waltz).

I am not devoting time to attacking it, I'm just trying to give you a realistic view of how JHU is perceived beyond your own myopic alumni circles. Sorry if it shatters your illusions but facts are often unpleasant to the ear.

Oh please, I could care less what you think, I gave you three different rankings that have Hopkins in the T 10. As if I or anyone else would believe the anonymous poster who didn’t know the difference between a poly sci and an IR major at Hopkins is some type of IR guru.

In any case, that Hopkins IR major took me to a T5 law school and then the DC office of a major law firm where I practiced in an area of international law, so it worked out just fine for me.

Not PP but 15 pages of posters care and tons of college applicants do, which is reflected by the low cross-admit rates.

15 pages and nothing but Parchment data which is pretty universally acknowledges to be deeply flawed.

Nope, while Parchment isn’t perfect I don’t believe it is deeply flawed for all its outputs. The most people who have major issues with Parchment simply don’t like what they see

Agreed. Parchment is like the (imperfect) antidote to the poison that is known as USNews, which gives people a sense of delusion. Usually, the people having problems with Parchment are those whose schools are massively overrated on the ranking vs their parchment rankings, like JHU or Uchicago for instance.