The PG Pool is racist [MD]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The PG pool has the same legacy racism problems that other private clubs have.

It is widely hated in the neighborhood because we know we’ll never get off the wait list.

Some people want to have a constructive conversation about what the pool could do to address its racist history. There are a bunch of good ideas out there. None of them move most of us neighbors up the waitlist though.

Mt Rainier has its fair share of useless busybodies who just like to complain and the pool is an easy target.

I don't think that's true, given the circumstances here.

1. Fifty years ago, PG Pool had racist policies.
2. They changed those policies in 1975.
3. In the 1990s through 2010-11, membership was so low that there was no waiting list. This wasn't a short-term occurrence, it lasted for decades. Anyone, of any race, could (and did) join just by signing up and paying the fee.
4. The pool recently has become more popular, and there's a wait list, that's open to all.

In other words, this isn't a "legacy racism problem" - it's a racist past that has been addressed, and now race-neutral factors have combined to create a wait list, and inhibited people in the neighborhood (and everywhere) from joining. But having a wait list isn't evidence of a legacy racism problem. It might be if there's been a wait list going all the way back to 1975, but the extended time period where anyone could join really eliminates that argument (for anyone who's honestly thinking about this, anyway).

I think one of the issues is that POC were very hesitant to join in the years after it was desegregated, they didn’t feel welcome. That slowly changed but now that they feel comfortable joining the waitlist is too long. It’s a chicken egg thing.

That may account for the 80s, and maybe even the 90s, but as I an others have said, there was no wait list as late as 2010-2011.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's a reasonable solution: Instead of one wait list, make 4 of them: one for long-time residents of MtR (e.g. pre-2000), another for MtR renters, a third for homeowners who moved here in 2000 or later, and a fourth for non-MtR people.

Then, equally select people from each list to join. I also thin the pool should have variable fees where lower income families pay less and wealthier ones pay more.

I'm high up on this pool's wait list and this proposal wouldn't benefit me personally, but I think it's more fair.

Four wait lists?

You and I have different definitions of reasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The PG pool has the same legacy racism problems that other private clubs have.

It is widely hated in the neighborhood because we know we’ll never get off the wait list.

Some people want to have a constructive conversation about what the pool could do to address its racist history. There are a bunch of good ideas out there. None of them move most of us neighbors up the waitlist though.

Mt Rainier has its fair share of useless busybodies who just like to complain and the pool is an easy target.

I don't think that's true, given the circumstances here.

1. Fifty years ago, PG Pool had racist policies.
2. They changed those policies in 1975.
3. In the 1990s through 2010-11, membership was so low that there was no waiting list. This wasn't a short-term occurrence, it lasted for decades. Anyone, of any race, could (and did) join just by signing up and paying the fee.
4. The pool recently has become more popular, and there's a wait list, that's open to all.

In other words, this isn't a "legacy racism problem" - it's a racist past that has been addressed, and now race-neutral factors have combined to create a wait list, and inhibited people in the neighborhood (and everywhere) from joining. But having a wait list isn't evidence of a legacy racism problem. It might be if there's been a wait list going all the way back to 1975, but the extended time period where anyone could join really eliminates that argument (for anyone who's honestly thinking about this, anyway).

I think one of the issues is that POC were very hesitant to join in the years after it was desegregated, they didn’t feel welcome. That slowly changed but now that they feel comfortable joining the waitlist is too long. It’s a chicken egg thing.

That may account for the 80s, and maybe even the 90s, but as I an others have said, there was no wait list as late as 2010-2011.

I see your point, but wasn't there a really bad housing crises in PGC/Mount Rainier during 2010 and 2011? That might effect who could afford to join before your wait list ballooned to 10+ years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The PG pool has the same legacy racism problems that other private clubs have.

It is widely hated in the neighborhood because we know we’ll never get off the wait list.

Some people want to have a constructive conversation about what the pool could do to address its racist history. There are a bunch of good ideas out there. None of them move most of us neighbors up the waitlist though.

Mt Rainier has its fair share of useless busybodies who just like to complain and the pool is an easy target.

I don't think that's true, given the circumstances here.

1. Fifty years ago, PG Pool had racist policies.
2. They changed those policies in 1975.
3. In the 1990s through 2010-11, membership was so low that there was no waiting list. This wasn't a short-term occurrence, it lasted for decades. Anyone, of any race, could (and did) join just by signing up and paying the fee.
4. The pool recently has become more popular, and there's a wait list, that's open to all.

In other words, this isn't a "legacy racism problem" - it's a racist past that has been addressed, and now race-neutral factors have combined to create a wait list, and inhibited people in the neighborhood (and everywhere) from joining. But having a wait list isn't evidence of a legacy racism problem. It might be if there's been a wait list going all the way back to 1975, but the extended time period where anyone could join really eliminates that argument (for anyone who's honestly thinking about this, anyway).

I think one of the issues is that POC were very hesitant to join in the years after it was desegregated, they didn’t feel welcome. That slowly changed but now that they feel comfortable joining the waitlist is too long. It’s a chicken egg thing.

That may account for the 80s, and maybe even the 90s, but as I an others have said, there was no wait list as late as 2010-2011.

I see your point, but wasn't there a really bad housing crises in PGC/Mount Rainier during 2010 and 2011? That might effect who could afford to join before your wait list ballooned to 10+ years.

I've got no dog in this hunt, I'm no longer a member of the pool. But you are trying really, really hard to create a linkage to 50 year old racist policies where no rational person would say one exists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The PG pool has the same legacy racism problems that other private clubs have.

It is widely hated in the neighborhood because we know we’ll never get off the wait list.

Some people want to have a constructive conversation about what the pool could do to address its racist history. There are a bunch of good ideas out there. None of them move most of us neighbors up the waitlist though.

Mt Rainier has its fair share of useless busybodies who just like to complain and the pool is an easy target.

I don't think that's true, given the circumstances here.

1. Fifty years ago, PG Pool had racist policies.
2. They changed those policies in 1975.
3. In the 1990s through 2010-11, membership was so low that there was no waiting list. This wasn't a short-term occurrence, it lasted for decades. Anyone, of any race, could (and did) join just by signing up and paying the fee.
4. The pool recently has become more popular, and there's a wait list, that's open to all.

In other words, this isn't a "legacy racism problem" - it's a racist past that has been addressed, and now race-neutral factors have combined to create a wait list, and inhibited people in the neighborhood (and everywhere) from joining. But having a wait list isn't evidence of a legacy racism problem. It might be if there's been a wait list going all the way back to 1975, but the extended time period where anyone could join really eliminates that argument (for anyone who's honestly thinking about this, anyway).

I think one of the issues is that POC were very hesitant to join in the years after it was desegregated, they didn’t feel welcome. That slowly changed but now that they feel comfortable joining the waitlist is too long. It’s a chicken egg thing.

That may account for the 80s, and maybe even the 90s, but as I an others have said, there was no wait list as late as 2010-2011.

I see your point, but wasn't there a really bad housing crises in PGC/Mount Rainier during 2010 and 2011? That might effect who could afford to join before your wait list ballooned to 10+ years.

I've got no dog in this hunt, I'm no longer a member of the pool. But you are trying really, really hard to create a linkage to 50 year old racist policies where no rational person would say one exists.

There is currently a single person (she is very old) who is still a member from the 80s. When I joined in 1999 there were almost no members and most of them were hippies from the Catholic school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The PG pool has the same legacy racism problems that other private clubs have.

It is widely hated in the neighborhood because we know we’ll never get off the wait list.

Some people want to have a constructive conversation about what the pool could do to address its racist history. There are a bunch of good ideas out there. None of them move most of us neighbors up the waitlist though.

Mt Rainier has its fair share of useless busybodies who just like to complain and the pool is an easy target.

I don't think that's true, given the circumstances here.

1. Fifty years ago, PG Pool had racist policies.
2. They changed those policies in 1975.
3. In the 1990s through 2010-11, membership was so low that there was no waiting list. This wasn't a short-term occurrence, it lasted for decades. Anyone, of any race, could (and did) join just by signing up and paying the fee.
4. The pool recently has become more popular, and there's a wait list, that's open to all.

In other words, this isn't a "legacy racism problem" - it's a racist past that has been addressed, and now race-neutral factors have combined to create a wait list, and inhibited people in the neighborhood (and everywhere) from joining. But having a wait list isn't evidence of a legacy racism problem. It might be if there's been a wait list going all the way back to 1975, but the extended time period where anyone could join really eliminates that argument (for anyone who's honestly thinking about this, anyway).

I think one of the issues is that POC were very hesitant to join in the years after it was desegregated, they didn’t feel welcome. That slowly changed but now that they feel comfortable joining the waitlist is too long. It’s a chicken egg thing.

That may account for the 80s, and maybe even the 90s, but as I an others have said, there was no wait list as late as 2010-2011.

I see your point, but wasn't there a really bad housing crises in PGC/Mount Rainier during 2010 and 2011? That might effect who could afford to join before your wait list ballooned to 10+ years.

I've got no dog in this hunt, I'm no longer a member of the pool. But you are trying really, really hard to create a linkage to 50 year old racist policies where no rational person would say one exists.

Then why is the pool clearly majority white in a majority black and brown town? This smacks of those old country clubs who excluded blacks then let in 1 or 2 decades later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The PG pool has the same legacy racism problems that other private clubs have.

It is widely hated in the neighborhood because we know we’ll never get off the wait list.

Some people want to have a constructive conversation about what the pool could do to address its racist history. There are a bunch of good ideas out there. None of them move most of us neighbors up the waitlist though.

Mt Rainier has its fair share of useless busybodies who just like to complain and the pool is an easy target.

I don't think that's true, given the circumstances here.

1. Fifty years ago, PG Pool had racist policies.
2. They changed those policies in 1975.
3. In the 1990s through 2010-11, membership was so low that there was no waiting list. This wasn't a short-term occurrence, it lasted for decades. Anyone, of any race, could (and did) join just by signing up and paying the fee.
4. The pool recently has become more popular, and there's a wait list, that's open to all.

In other words, this isn't a "legacy racism problem" - it's a racist past that has been addressed, and now race-neutral factors have combined to create a wait list, and inhibited people in the neighborhood (and everywhere) from joining. But having a wait list isn't evidence of a legacy racism problem. It might be if there's been a wait list going all the way back to 1975, but the extended time period where anyone could join really eliminates that argument (for anyone who's honestly thinking about this, anyway).

I think one of the issues is that POC were very hesitant to join in the years after it was desegregated, they didn’t feel welcome. That slowly changed but now that they feel comfortable joining the waitlist is too long. It’s a chicken egg thing.

That may account for the 80s, and maybe even the 90s, but as I an others have said, there was no wait list as late as 2010-2011.

I see your point, but wasn't there a really bad housing crises in PGC/Mount Rainier during 2010 and 2011? That might effect who could afford to join before your wait list ballooned to 10+ years.

I've got no dog in this hunt, I'm no longer a member of the pool. But you are trying really, really hard to create a linkage to 50 year old racist policies where no rational person would say one exists.

Then why is the pool clearly majority white in a majority black and brown town? This smacks of those old country clubs who excluded blacks then let in 1 or 2 decades later.

TBH I think it's cultural. I think the black and brown people who are long-time residents had other places to swim or activities they pursued in the summer. If they had wanted to, they could have easily joined (and been warmly welcomed) for over 20 years. The pool literally begged neighbors of all colors to join in the early 2000s. As the pool works down the waitlist (granted, more slowly than is ideal) there ARE more and more black and brown families getting a membership. These are families who are relatively newer to Mount Rainier and not long-time residents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The PG pool has the same legacy racism problems that other private clubs have.

It is widely hated in the neighborhood because we know we’ll never get off the wait list.

Some people want to have a constructive conversation about what the pool could do to address its racist history. There are a bunch of good ideas out there. None of them move most of us neighbors up the waitlist though.

Mt Rainier has its fair share of useless busybodies who just like to complain and the pool is an easy target.

I don't think that's true, given the circumstances here.

1. Fifty years ago, PG Pool had racist policies.
2. They changed those policies in 1975.
3. In the 1990s through 2010-11, membership was so low that there was no waiting list. This wasn't a short-term occurrence, it lasted for decades. Anyone, of any race, could (and did) join just by signing up and paying the fee.
4. The pool recently has become more popular, and there's a wait list, that's open to all.

In other words, this isn't a "legacy racism problem" - it's a racist past that has been addressed, and now race-neutral factors have combined to create a wait list, and inhibited people in the neighborhood (and everywhere) from joining. But having a wait list isn't evidence of a legacy racism problem. It might be if there's been a wait list going all the way back to 1975, but the extended time period where anyone could join really eliminates that argument (for anyone who's honestly thinking about this, anyway).

I think one of the issues is that POC were very hesitant to join in the years after it was desegregated, they didn’t feel welcome. That slowly changed but now that they feel comfortable joining the waitlist is too long. It’s a chicken egg thing.

That may account for the 80s, and maybe even the 90s, but as I an others have said, there was no wait list as late as 2010-2011.

I see your point, but wasn't there a really bad housing crises in PGC/Mount Rainier during 2010 and 2011? That might effect who could afford to join before your wait list ballooned to 10+ years.

I've got no dog in this hunt, I'm no longer a member of the pool. But you are trying really, really hard to create a linkage to 50 year old racist policies where no rational person would say one exists.

Then why is the pool clearly majority white in a majority black and brown town? This smacks of those old country clubs who excluded blacks then let in 1 or 2 decades later.

There is some self selection going on. There are some businesses and institutions in PG county that are majority white not because people of color aren't welcome but just because that's who chooses to go there. Same with some businesses that are majority black. Northern PG is pretty white compared to the rest of PG county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The PG pool has the same legacy racism problems that other private clubs have.

It is widely hated in the neighborhood because we know we’ll never get off the wait list.

Some people want to have a constructive conversation about what the pool could do to address its racist history. There are a bunch of good ideas out there. None of them move most of us neighbors up the waitlist though.

Mt Rainier has its fair share of useless busybodies who just like to complain and the pool is an easy target.

I don't think that's true, given the circumstances here.

1. Fifty years ago, PG Pool had racist policies.
2. They changed those policies in 1975.
3. In the 1990s through 2010-11, membership was so low that there was no waiting list. This wasn't a short-term occurrence, it lasted for decades. Anyone, of any race, could (and did) join just by signing up and paying the fee.
4. The pool recently has become more popular, and there's a wait list, that's open to all.

In other words, this isn't a "legacy racism problem" - it's a racist past that has been addressed, and now race-neutral factors have combined to create a wait list, and inhibited people in the neighborhood (and everywhere) from joining. But having a wait list isn't evidence of a legacy racism problem. It might be if there's been a wait list going all the way back to 1975, but the extended time period where anyone could join really eliminates that argument (for anyone who's honestly thinking about this, anyway).

I think one of the issues is that POC were very hesitant to join in the years after it was desegregated, they didn’t feel welcome. That slowly changed but now that they feel comfortable joining the waitlist is too long. It’s a chicken egg thing.

That may account for the 80s, and maybe even the 90s, but as I an others have said, there was no wait list as late as 2010-2011.

I see your point, but wasn't there a really bad housing crises in PGC/Mount Rainier during 2010 and 2011? That might effect who could afford to join before your wait list ballooned to 10+ years.

Absolutely, because a lot of UMC whites bought those foreclosed homes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The PG pool has the same legacy racism problems that other private clubs have.

It is widely hated in the neighborhood because we know we’ll never get off the wait list.

Some people want to have a constructive conversation about what the pool could do to address its racist history. There are a bunch of good ideas out there. None of them move most of us neighbors up the waitlist though.

Mt Rainier has its fair share of useless busybodies who just like to complain and the pool is an easy target.

I don't think that's true, given the circumstances here.

1. Fifty years ago, PG Pool had racist policies.
2. They changed those policies in 1975.
3. In the 1990s through 2010-11, membership was so low that there was no waiting list. This wasn't a short-term occurrence, it lasted for decades. Anyone, of any race, could (and did) join just by signing up and paying the fee.
4. The pool recently has become more popular, and there's a wait list, that's open to all.

In other words, this isn't a "legacy racism problem" - it's a racist past that has been addressed, and now race-neutral factors have combined to create a wait list, and inhibited people in the neighborhood (and everywhere) from joining. But having a wait list isn't evidence of a legacy racism problem. It might be if there's been a wait list going all the way back to 1975, but the extended time period where anyone could join really eliminates that argument (for anyone who's honestly thinking about this, anyway).

I think one of the issues is that POC were very hesitant to join in the years after it was desegregated, they didn’t feel welcome. That slowly changed but now that they feel comfortable joining the waitlist is too long. It’s a chicken egg thing.

That may account for the 80s, and maybe even the 90s, but as I an others have said, there was no wait list as late as 2010-2011.

I see your point, but wasn't there a really bad housing crises in PGC/Mount Rainier during 2010 and 2011? That might effect who could afford to join before your wait list ballooned to 10+ years.

Absolutely, because a lot of UMC whites bought those foreclosed homes.

So all businesses in PG County need to retroactively give discounts to black customers since PG had a higher rate of foreclosure in 2008-2011?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

PP here. Agree. I'm also the PP who joined about 15 years ago. I've always been heartbroken at the thought of the kids in those apartments watching pool members come and go.

+100 Weight the waitlist and do outreach to the apartments.

Outreach? Do you think they are somehow unaware there is a pool there? Why don’t you do a little survey and find out what the barriers are- e.g. how many are toiling for years in the waitlist vs. simply can’t afford it or don’t want to?

Or aren't bothering to be on the waiting list because they know their kids will be too old to enjoy it when they get off.

It seems like there's an easy solution, which is to offer priority on the wait list to people who live within a certain distance. If the initial reason they didn't give neighborhood priority was racist, and the result of the lack of neighborhood priority is what continues to contribute to a pool that doesn't reflect the neighborhood, then it seems like the solution is obvious.

Initial reason? For years there was NO waitlist. So you’re saying that just a few years ago, when the waitlist started growing, the pool board was deliberately being racist be not prioritizing membership by zip code?

Also I’m not sure there would be as much movement as you think- unless you’re really suggesting they drill down and also prioritize certain races within those zip codes. Is that what you’re suggesting?

I think the PP's zone-based weighting for the waitlist isn't a bad idea. That would ensure representation from Mount Rainier, Brentwood, North Brentwood, Hyattsville, parts of TKPK, and parts of NE DC.

The argument that people in the community didn't want to join this pool when there wasn't a wait list years ago isn't a sound position, in my humble opinion. Today's pool membership rates are $230 per adult for the summer + $70-$140 for dependents in the summer. Back in 2008-2012, Mount Rainier was hit really hard by the housing crash, much harder than other communities in DC/MoCo. I bet a lot of families facing foreclosure couldn't afford these costs even if there wasn't a wait list back then.

I guess it would make sense if that was actually the issue- is it? Does anyone know the waitlist stats by zip code? I find it awful hard to believe this pool is so desirable that people who don’t live close by would wait 10 years on the waitlist to get in.

I’d also be curious to know the zip codes of those who are accepted off the waitlist each year. According to the website, around 25 families are accorded each year but they move through 100 on the waitlist. That means many have moved on to other pools or have left the area. FWIW i have a couple coworkers who are members, one lives in mt rainier and one in hyattsville.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The PG pool has the same legacy racism problems that other private clubs have.

It is widely hated in the neighborhood because we know we’ll never get off the wait list.

Some people want to have a constructive conversation about what the pool could do to address its racist history. There are a bunch of good ideas out there. None of them move most of us neighbors up the waitlist though.

Mt Rainier has its fair share of useless busybodies who just like to complain and the pool is an easy target.

I don't think that's true, given the circumstances here.

1. Fifty years ago, PG Pool had racist policies.
2. They changed those policies in 1975.
3. In the 1990s through 2010-11, membership was so low that there was no waiting list. This wasn't a short-term occurrence, it lasted for decades. Anyone, of any race, could (and did) join just by signing up and paying the fee.
4. The pool recently has become more popular, and there's a wait list, that's open to all.

In other words, this isn't a "legacy racism problem" - it's a racist past that has been addressed, and now race-neutral factors have combined to create a wait list, and inhibited people in the neighborhood (and everywhere) from joining. But having a wait list isn't evidence of a legacy racism problem. It might be if there's been a wait list going all the way back to 1975, but the extended time period where anyone could join really eliminates that argument (for anyone who's honestly thinking about this, anyway).

I think one of the issues is that POC were very hesitant to join in the years after it was desegregated, they didn’t feel welcome. That slowly changed but now that they feel comfortable joining the waitlist is too long. It’s a chicken egg thing.

That may account for the 80s, and maybe even the 90s, but as I an others have said, there was no wait list as late as 2010-2011.

I see your point, but wasn't there a really bad housing crises in PGC/Mount Rainier during 2010 and 2011? That might effect who could afford to join before your wait list ballooned to 10+ years.

I've got no dog in this hunt, I'm no longer a member of the pool. But you are trying really, really hard to create a linkage to 50 year old racist policies where no rational person would say one exists.

Then why is the pool clearly majority white in a majority black and brown town? This smacks of those old country clubs who excluded blacks then let in 1 or 2 decades later.

TBH I think it's cultural. I think the black and brown people who are long-time residents had other places to swim or activities they pursued in the summer. If they had wanted to, they could have easily joined (and been warmly welcomed) for over 20 years. The pool literally begged neighbors of all colors to join in the early 2000s. As the pool works down the waitlist (granted, more slowly than is ideal) there ARE more and more black and brown families getting a membership. These are families who are relatively newer to Mount Rainier and not long-time residents.

Wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The PG pool has the same legacy racism problems that other private clubs have.

It is widely hated in the neighborhood because we know we’ll never get off the wait list.

Some people want to have a constructive conversation about what the pool could do to address its racist history. There are a bunch of good ideas out there. None of them move most of us neighbors up the waitlist though.

Mt Rainier has its fair share of useless busybodies who just like to complain and the pool is an easy target.

I don't think that's true, given the circumstances here.

1. Fifty years ago, PG Pool had racist policies.
2. They changed those policies in 1975.
3. In the 1990s through 2010-11, membership was so low that there was no waiting list. This wasn't a short-term occurrence, it lasted for decades. Anyone, of any race, could (and did) join just by signing up and paying the fee.
4. The pool recently has become more popular, and there's a wait list, that's open to all.

In other words, this isn't a "legacy racism problem" - it's a racist past that has been addressed, and now race-neutral factors have combined to create a wait list, and inhibited people in the neighborhood (and everywhere) from joining. But having a wait list isn't evidence of a legacy racism problem. It might be if there's been a wait list going all the way back to 1975, but the extended time period where anyone could join really eliminates that argument (for anyone who's honestly thinking about this, anyway).

I think one of the issues is that POC were very hesitant to join in the years after it was desegregated, they didn’t feel welcome. That slowly changed but now that they feel comfortable joining the waitlist is too long. It’s a chicken egg thing.

That may account for the 80s, and maybe even the 90s, but as I an others have said, there was no wait list as late as 2010-2011.

I see your point, but wasn't there a really bad housing crises in PGC/Mount Rainier during 2010 and 2011? That might effect who could afford to join before your wait list ballooned to 10+ years.

I've got no dog in this hunt, I'm no longer a member of the pool. But you are trying really, really hard to create a linkage to 50 year old racist policies where no rational person would say one exists.

Then why is the pool clearly majority white in a majority black and brown town? This smacks of those old country clubs who excluded blacks then let in 1 or 2 decades later.

TBH I think it's cultural. I think the black and brown people who are long-time residents had other places to swim or activities they pursued in the summer. If they had wanted to, they could have easily joined (and been warmly welcomed) for over 20 years. The pool literally begged neighbors of all colors to join in the early 2000s. As the pool works down the waitlist (granted, more slowly than is ideal) there ARE more and more black and brown families getting a membership. These are families who are relatively newer to Mount Rainier and not long-time residents.

Wow.

I'm not sure why this is a wow. I have friends who just aren't into swimming pools. Some are white. Some are black.

[Anonymous]

Putting the race issue aside for a moment, I think another big issue for me is that it can appear as if families who would never want to live in PGC - b/c of crime, the schools, the demographics, etc. - want to take up slots at this pool.

Seeing those DC license plates in the PG pool parking lot just rub a lot of people the wrong way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Putting the race issue aside for a moment, I think another big issue for me is that it can appear as if families who would never want to live in PGC - b/c of crime, the schools, the demographics, etc. - want to take up slots at this pool.

Seeing those DC license plates in the PG pool parking lot just rub a lot of people the wrong way.

Why though? I live in PG and go into DC to "use their stuff" all the time. I also have plenty of friends who live in PG and swim at Turkey Thicket in the winter. We're all very close in proximity.