The PG Pool is racist [MD]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Most MoCo pools have neighborhood or zip code restrictions. That is, you need to live close to the pool to be a member. That’s how it works with the one our family goes to. If you buy a house in the neighborhood, you can join the list or the home’s seller can pass on their membership to you. You can’t pass on your membership to a family member who lives outside the neighborhood.

It sounds like the issue with PGP is that the pool is dominated by outsiders from DC and MoCo. No way will that group be incentivized to change the by-laws to prioritize neighborhood residents or disallow passing down their membership to a family member. Essentially, you have a pool that’s been colonized by outsiders.

Ugly optics.

The pool is very close to the border with DC. Disallowing people from DC wouldn't actually make sense if you're trying for a neighborhood pool. Adding zip code restrictions to nearby zip codes would make more sense, but it could be argued that DC residents in nearby neighborhoods that are closer to the pool are more part of the neighborhood than people in Hyattsville who live nowhere near the pool.

Umm... DC folks don't even live in the same city, county, or state as this pool. This all sounds very colonial.

Well, DC doesn't even have a state, or voting representation in congress, so tell me again who is colonized?

I support DC statehood and also would like the black and brown children in my MtR neighborhood to have a place to swim and cool off during this heatwave.

Are there not public pools in PG county?

Yes, there are two public pools extremely close to the PG Pool: Hamilton pool and Rollingcrest-Chillum.

They’re kind of gross and overcrowded though. Opening PG pool to the community could relieve some of the overcrowding.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

PP here. Agree. I'm also the PP who joined about 15 years ago. I've always been heartbroken at the thought of the kids in those apartments watching pool members come and go.

+100 Weight the waitlist and do outreach to the apartments.

Outreach? Do you think they are somehow unaware there is a pool there? Why don’t you do a little survey and find out what the barriers are- e.g. how many are toiling for years in the waitlist vs. simply can’t afford it or don’t want to?

Or aren't bothering to be on the waiting list because they know their kids will be too old to enjoy it when they get off.

It seems like there's an easy solution, which is to offer priority on the wait list to people who live within a certain distance. If the initial reason they didn't give neighborhood priority was racist, and the result of the lack of neighborhood priority is what continues to contribute to a pool that doesn't reflect the neighborhood, then it seems like the solution is obvious.

Initial reason? For years there was NO waitlist. So you’re saying that just a few years ago, when the waitlist started growing, the pool board was deliberately being racist be not prioritizing membership by zip code?

Also I’m not sure there would be as much movement as you think- unless you’re really suggesting they drill down and also prioritize certain races within those zip codes. Is that what you’re suggesting?

I think the PP's zone-based weighting for the waitlist isn't a bad idea. That would ensure representation from Mount Rainier, Brentwood, North Brentwood, Hyattsville, parts of TKPK, and parts of NE DC.

The argument that people in the community didn't want to join this pool when there wasn't a wait list years ago isn't a sound position, in my humble opinion. Today's pool membership rates are $230 per adult for the summer + $70-$140 for dependents in the summer. Back in 2008-2012, Mount Rainier was hit really hard by the housing crash, much harder than other communities in DC/MoCo. I bet a lot of families facing foreclosure couldn't afford these costs even if there wasn't a wait list back then.

This happened to my neighbor who was facing foreclosure, she could afford the pool back then.

Can she now? Does she want to join?

She’s on the wait list and should be able to in 7+ years. Kinda sad how she could get exercise or join this community bc she was poor at the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most MoCo pools have neighborhood or zip code restrictions. That is, you need to live close to the pool to be a member. That’s how it works with the one our family goes to. If you buy a house in the neighborhood, you can join the list or the home’s seller can pass on their membership to you. You can’t pass on your membership to a family member who lives outside the neighborhood.

It sounds like the issue with PGP is that the pool is dominated by outsiders from DC and MoCo. No way will that group be incentivized to change the by-laws to prioritize neighborhood residents or disallow passing down their membership to a family member. Essentially, you have a pool that’s been colonized by outsiders.

Ugly optics.

The pool is very close to the border with DC. Disallowing people from DC wouldn't actually make sense if you're trying for a neighborhood pool. Adding zip code restrictions to nearby zip codes would make more sense, but it could be argued that DC residents in nearby neighborhoods that are closer to the pool are more part of the neighborhood than people in Hyattsville who live nowhere near the pool.

Umm... DC folks don't even live in the same city, county, or state as this pool. This all sounds very colonial.

Well, DC doesn't even have a state, or voting representation in congress, so tell me again who is colonized?

I support DC statehood and also would like the black and brown children in my MtR neighborhood to have a place to swim and cool off during this heatwave.

Are there not public pools in PG county?

Yes, there are two public pools extremely close to the PG Pool: Hamilton pool and Rollingcrest-Chillum.

They’re kind of gross and overcrowded though. Opening PG pool to the community could relieve some of the overcrowding.

It's literally not legally or practiaclly possible to do this.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

PP here. Agree. I'm also the PP who joined about 15 years ago. I've always been heartbroken at the thought of the kids in those apartments watching pool members come and go.

+100 Weight the waitlist and do outreach to the apartments.

Outreach? Do you think they are somehow unaware there is a pool there? Why don’t you do a little survey and find out what the barriers are- e.g. how many are toiling for years in the waitlist vs. simply can’t afford it or don’t want to?

Or aren't bothering to be on the waiting list because they know their kids will be too old to enjoy it when they get off.

It seems like there's an easy solution, which is to offer priority on the wait list to people who live within a certain distance. If the initial reason they didn't give neighborhood priority was racist, and the result of the lack of neighborhood priority is what continues to contribute to a pool that doesn't reflect the neighborhood, then it seems like the solution is obvious.

Initial reason? For years there was NO waitlist. So you’re saying that just a few years ago, when the waitlist started growing, the pool board was deliberately being racist be not prioritizing membership by zip code?

Also I’m not sure there would be as much movement as you think- unless you’re really suggesting they drill down and also prioritize certain races within those zip codes. Is that what you’re suggesting?

I think the PP's zone-based weighting for the waitlist isn't a bad idea. That would ensure representation from Mount Rainier, Brentwood, North Brentwood, Hyattsville, parts of TKPK, and parts of NE DC.

The argument that people in the community didn't want to join this pool when there wasn't a wait list years ago isn't a sound position, in my humble opinion. Today's pool membership rates are $230 per adult for the summer + $70-$140 for dependents in the summer. Back in 2008-2012, Mount Rainier was hit really hard by the housing crash, much harder than other communities in DC/MoCo. I bet a lot of families facing foreclosure couldn't afford these costs even if there wasn't a wait list back then.

I guess it would make sense if that was actually the issue- is it? Does anyone know the waitlist stats by zip code? I find it awful hard to believe this pool is so desirable that people who don’t live close by would wait 10 years on the waitlist to get in.

If it's a non-issue, then why not do this weighting approach anyways? I think it would go a long way to show the pool is in fact not a little segregated colony of people who will vacation in PGC but not want to live here.

+1

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

PP here. Agree. I'm also the PP who joined about 15 years ago. I've always been heartbroken at the thought of the kids in those apartments watching pool members come and go.

+100 Weight the waitlist and do outreach to the apartments.

Outreach? Do you think they are somehow unaware there is a pool there? Why don’t you do a little survey and find out what the barriers are- e.g. how many are toiling for years in the waitlist vs. simply can’t afford it or don’t want to?

Or aren't bothering to be on the waiting list because they know their kids will be too old to enjoy it when they get off.

It seems like there's an easy solution, which is to offer priority on the wait list to people who live within a certain distance. If the initial reason they didn't give neighborhood priority was racist, and the result of the lack of neighborhood priority is what continues to contribute to a pool that doesn't reflect the neighborhood, then it seems like the solution is obvious.

Initial reason? For years there was NO waitlist. So you’re saying that just a few years ago, when the waitlist started growing, the pool board was deliberately being racist be not prioritizing membership by zip code?

Also I’m not sure there would be as much movement as you think- unless you’re really suggesting they drill down and also prioritize certain races within those zip codes. Is that what you’re suggesting?

I think the PP's zone-based weighting for the waitlist isn't a bad idea. That would ensure representation from Mount Rainier, Brentwood, North Brentwood, Hyattsville, parts of TKPK, and parts of NE DC.

The argument that people in the community didn't want to join this pool when there wasn't a wait list years ago isn't a sound position, in my humble opinion. Today's pool membership rates are $230 per adult for the summer + $70-$140 for dependents in the summer. Back in 2008-2012, Mount Rainier was hit really hard by the housing crash, much harder than other communities in DC/MoCo. I bet a lot of families facing foreclosure couldn't afford these costs even if there wasn't a wait list back then.

I guess it would make sense if that was actually the issue- is it? Does anyone know the waitlist stats by zip code? I find it awful hard to believe this pool is so desirable that people who don’t live close by would wait 10 years on the waitlist to get in.

If it's a non-issue, then why not do this weighting approach anyways? I think it would go a long way to show the pool is in fact not a little segregated colony of people who will vacation in PGC but not want to live here.

Join the board and propose it. Not sure why you’d prefer to post anonymously, are you afraid to put your name out there?

Or perhaps you think this proposal would help YOU move off the waitlist sooner?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most MoCo pools have neighborhood or zip code restrictions. That is, you need to live close to the pool to be a member. That’s how it works with the one our family goes to. If you buy a house in the neighborhood, you can join the list or the home’s seller can pass on their membership to you. You can’t pass on your membership to a family member who lives outside the neighborhood.

It sounds like the issue with PGP is that the pool is dominated by outsiders from DC and MoCo. No way will that group be incentivized to change the by-laws to prioritize neighborhood residents or disallow passing down their membership to a family member. Essentially, you have a pool that’s been colonized by outsiders.

Ugly optics.

The pool is very close to the border with DC. Disallowing people from DC wouldn't actually make sense if you're trying for a neighborhood pool. Adding zip code restrictions to nearby zip codes would make more sense, but it could be argued that DC residents in nearby neighborhoods that are closer to the pool are more part of the neighborhood than people in Hyattsville who live nowhere near the pool.

Umm... DC folks don't even live in the same city, county, or state as this pool. This all sounds very colonial.

Well, DC doesn't even have a state, or voting representation in congress, so tell me again who is colonized?

I support DC statehood and also would like the black and brown children in my MtR neighborhood to have a place to swim and cool off during this heatwave.

Are there not public pools in PG county?

Yes, there are two public pools extremely close to the PG Pool: Hamilton pool and Rollingcrest-Chillum.

They’re kind of gross and overcrowded though. Opening PG pool to the community could relieve some of the overcrowding.

It’s a private pool!! How about the county build more pools or create a fund to maintain apartment pools?

Destroying institutions instead of expanding them is the utter worst of left “equity” policies.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

PP here. Agree. I'm also the PP who joined about 15 years ago. I've always been heartbroken at the thought of the kids in those apartments watching pool members come and go.

+100 Weight the waitlist and do outreach to the apartments.

Outreach? Do you think they are somehow unaware there is a pool there? Why don’t you do a little survey and find out what the barriers are- e.g. how many are toiling for years in the waitlist vs. simply can’t afford it or don’t want to?

Or aren't bothering to be on the waiting list because they know their kids will be too old to enjoy it when they get off.

It seems like there's an easy solution, which is to offer priority on the wait list to people who live within a certain distance. If the initial reason they didn't give neighborhood priority was racist, and the result of the lack of neighborhood priority is what continues to contribute to a pool that doesn't reflect the neighborhood, then it seems like the solution is obvious.

Initial reason? For years there was NO waitlist. So you’re saying that just a few years ago, when the waitlist started growing, the pool board was deliberately being racist be not prioritizing membership by zip code?

Also I’m not sure there would be as much movement as you think- unless you’re really suggesting they drill down and also prioritize certain races within those zip codes. Is that what you’re suggesting?

I think the PP's zone-based weighting for the waitlist isn't a bad idea. That would ensure representation from Mount Rainier, Brentwood, North Brentwood, Hyattsville, parts of TKPK, and parts of NE DC.

The argument that people in the community didn't want to join this pool when there wasn't a wait list years ago isn't a sound position, in my humble opinion. Today's pool membership rates are $230 per adult for the summer + $70-$140 for dependents in the summer. Back in 2008-2012, Mount Rainier was hit really hard by the housing crash, much harder than other communities in DC/MoCo. I bet a lot of families facing foreclosure couldn't afford these costs even if there wasn't a wait list back then.

This happened to my neighbor who was facing foreclosure, she could afford the pool back then.

Can she now? Does she want to join?

She’s on the wait list and should be able to in 7+ years. Kinda sad how she could get exercise or join this community bc she was poor at the time.

I wanted my kids to go to CFMS when it was in Mt Rainier but I couldn't afford it. They should become a public school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

PP here. Agree. I'm also the PP who joined about 15 years ago. I've always been heartbroken at the thought of the kids in those apartments watching pool members come and go.

+100 Weight the waitlist and do outreach to the apartments.

Outreach? Do you think they are somehow unaware there is a pool there? Why don’t you do a little survey and find out what the barriers are- e.g. how many are toiling for years in the waitlist vs. simply can’t afford it or don’t want to?

Or aren't bothering to be on the waiting list because they know their kids will be too old to enjoy it when they get off.

It seems like there's an easy solution, which is to offer priority on the wait list to people who live within a certain distance. If the initial reason they didn't give neighborhood priority was racist, and the result of the lack of neighborhood priority is what continues to contribute to a pool that doesn't reflect the neighborhood, then it seems like the solution is obvious.

Initial reason? For years there was NO waitlist. So you’re saying that just a few years ago, when the waitlist started growing, the pool board was deliberately being racist be not prioritizing membership by zip code?

Also I’m not sure there would be as much movement as you think- unless you’re really suggesting they drill down and also prioritize certain races within those zip codes. Is that what you’re suggesting?

I think the PP's zone-based weighting for the waitlist isn't a bad idea. That would ensure representation from Mount Rainier, Brentwood, North Brentwood, Hyattsville, parts of TKPK, and parts of NE DC.

The argument that people in the community didn't want to join this pool when there wasn't a wait list years ago isn't a sound position, in my humble opinion. Today's pool membership rates are $230 per adult for the summer + $70-$140 for dependents in the summer. Back in 2008-2012, Mount Rainier was hit really hard by the housing crash, much harder than other communities in DC/MoCo. I bet a lot of families facing foreclosure couldn't afford these costs even if there wasn't a wait list back then.

This happened to my neighbor who was facing foreclosure, she could afford the pool back then.

Can she now? Does she want to join?

She’s on the wait list and should be able to in 7+ years. Kinda sad how she could get exercise or join this community bc she was poor at the time.

Is she aware of the public pools? Maybe there needs to be some outreach.

[Anonymous]

Oh FFS. The only way to exercise is to join a fee only pool, not to use free public options like lots of us do. Got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

PP here. Agree. I'm also the PP who joined about 15 years ago. I've always been heartbroken at the thought of the kids in those apartments watching pool members come and go.

+100 Weight the waitlist and do outreach to the apartments.

Outreach? Do you think they are somehow unaware there is a pool there? Why don’t you do a little survey and find out what the barriers are- e.g. how many are toiling for years in the waitlist vs. simply can’t afford it or don’t want to?

Or aren't bothering to be on the waiting list because they know their kids will be too old to enjoy it when they get off.

It seems like there's an easy solution, which is to offer priority on the wait list to people who live within a certain distance. If the initial reason they didn't give neighborhood priority was racist, and the result of the lack of neighborhood priority is what continues to contribute to a pool that doesn't reflect the neighborhood, then it seems like the solution is obvious.

Initial reason? For years there was NO waitlist. So you’re saying that just a few years ago, when the waitlist started growing, the pool board was deliberately being racist be not prioritizing membership by zip code?

Also I’m not sure there would be as much movement as you think- unless you’re really suggesting they drill down and also prioritize certain races within those zip codes. Is that what you’re suggesting?

I think the PP's zone-based weighting for the waitlist isn't a bad idea. That would ensure representation from Mount Rainier, Brentwood, North Brentwood, Hyattsville, parts of TKPK, and parts of NE DC.

The argument that people in the community didn't want to join this pool when there wasn't a wait list years ago isn't a sound position, in my humble opinion. Today's pool membership rates are $230 per adult for the summer + $70-$140 for dependents in the summer. Back in 2008-2012, Mount Rainier was hit really hard by the housing crash, much harder than other communities in DC/MoCo. I bet a lot of families facing foreclosure couldn't afford these costs even if there wasn't a wait list back then.

I guess it would make sense if that was actually the issue- is it? Does anyone know the waitlist stats by zip code? I find it awful hard to believe this pool is so desirable that people who don’t live close by would wait 10 years on the waitlist to get in.

If it's a non-issue, then why not do this weighting approach anyways? I think it would go a long way to show the pool is in fact not a little segregated colony of people who will vacation in PGC but not want to live here.

+1

Geographic catchment area perpetuate racist policies. I vote no.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

PP here. Agree. I'm also the PP who joined about 15 years ago. I've always been heartbroken at the thought of the kids in those apartments watching pool members come and go.

+100 Weight the waitlist and do outreach to the apartments.

Outreach? Do you think they are somehow unaware there is a pool there? Why don’t you do a little survey and find out what the barriers are- e.g. how many are toiling for years in the waitlist vs. simply can’t afford it or don’t want to?

Or aren't bothering to be on the waiting list because they know their kids will be too old to enjoy it when they get off.

It seems like there's an easy solution, which is to offer priority on the wait list to people who live within a certain distance. If the initial reason they didn't give neighborhood priority was racist, and the result of the lack of neighborhood priority is what continues to contribute to a pool that doesn't reflect the neighborhood, then it seems like the solution is obvious.

Initial reason? For years there was NO waitlist. So you’re saying that just a few years ago, when the waitlist started growing, the pool board was deliberately being racist be not prioritizing membership by zip code?

Also I’m not sure there would be as much movement as you think- unless you’re really suggesting they drill down and also prioritize certain races within those zip codes. Is that what you’re suggesting?

I think the PP's zone-based weighting for the waitlist isn't a bad idea. That would ensure representation from Mount Rainier, Brentwood, North Brentwood, Hyattsville, parts of TKPK, and parts of NE DC.

The argument that people in the community didn't want to join this pool when there wasn't a wait list years ago isn't a sound position, in my humble opinion. Today's pool membership rates are $230 per adult for the summer + $70-$140 for dependents in the summer. Back in 2008-2012, Mount Rainier was hit really hard by the housing crash, much harder than other communities in DC/MoCo. I bet a lot of families facing foreclosure couldn't afford these costs even if there wasn't a wait list back then.

I guess it would make sense if that was actually the issue- is it? Does anyone know the waitlist stats by zip code? I find it awful hard to believe this pool is so desirable that people who don’t live close by would wait 10 years on the waitlist to get in.

If it's a non-issue, then why not do this weighting approach anyways? I think it would go a long way to show the pool is in fact not a little segregated colony of people who will vacation in PGC but not want to live here.

+1

Geographic catchment area perpetuate racist policies. I vote no.

But the pool is clearly all white? Just walk by on a weekend or look at the pool website pics. I guess it would be racist against whites?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Most MoCo pools have neighborhood or zip code restrictions. That is, you need to live close to the pool to be a member. That’s how it works with the one our family goes to. If you buy a house in the neighborhood, you can join the list or the home’s seller can pass on their membership to you. You can’t pass on your membership to a family member who lives outside the neighborhood.

It sounds like the issue with PGP is that the pool is dominated by outsiders from DC and MoCo. No way will that group be incentivized to change the by-laws to prioritize neighborhood residents or disallow passing down their membership to a family member. Essentially, you have a pool that’s been colonized by outsiders.

Ugly optics.

The pool is very close to the border with DC. Disallowing people from DC wouldn't actually make sense if you're trying for a neighborhood pool. Adding zip code restrictions to nearby zip codes would make more sense, but it could be argued that DC residents in nearby neighborhoods that are closer to the pool are more part of the neighborhood than people in Hyattsville who live nowhere near the pool.

Turkey Thicket is also nearby


Umm... DC folks don't even live in the same city, county, or state as this pool. This all sounds very colonial.

Well, DC doesn't even have a state, or voting representation in congress, so tell me again who is colonized?

I support DC statehood and also would like the black and brown children in my MtR neighborhood to have a place to swim and cool off during this heatwave.

Are there not public pools in PG county?

Yes, there are two public pools extremely close to the PG Pool: Hamilton pool and Rollingcrest-Chillum.

They’re kind of gross and overcrowded though. Opening PG pool to the community could relieve some of the overcrowding.

[Anonymous]

Funny that the members I know are all from DC, white, incredibly woke and incredibly smug. Don’t know how the pool could be racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

PP here. Agree. I'm also the PP who joined about 15 years ago. I've always been heartbroken at the thought of the kids in those apartments watching pool members come and go.

+100 Weight the waitlist and do outreach to the apartments.

Outreach? Do you think they are somehow unaware there is a pool there? Why don’t you do a little survey and find out what the barriers are- e.g. how many are toiling for years in the waitlist vs. simply can’t afford it or don’t want to?

Or aren't bothering to be on the waiting list because they know their kids will be too old to enjoy it when they get off.

It seems like there's an easy solution, which is to offer priority on the wait list to people who live within a certain distance. If the initial reason they didn't give neighborhood priority was racist, and the result of the lack of neighborhood priority is what continues to contribute to a pool that doesn't reflect the neighborhood, then it seems like the solution is obvious.

Initial reason? For years there was NO waitlist. So you’re saying that just a few years ago, when the waitlist started growing, the pool board was deliberately being racist be not prioritizing membership by zip code?

Also I’m not sure there would be as much movement as you think- unless you’re really suggesting they drill down and also prioritize certain races within those zip codes. Is that what you’re suggesting?

I think the PP's zone-based weighting for the waitlist isn't a bad idea. That would ensure representation from Mount Rainier, Brentwood, North Brentwood, Hyattsville, parts of TKPK, and parts of NE DC.

The argument that people in the community didn't want to join this pool when there wasn't a wait list years ago isn't a sound position, in my humble opinion. Today's pool membership rates are $230 per adult for the summer + $70-$140 for dependents in the summer. Back in 2008-2012, Mount Rainier was hit really hard by the housing crash, much harder than other communities in DC/MoCo. I bet a lot of families facing foreclosure couldn't afford these costs even if there wasn't a wait list back then.

I guess it would make sense if that was actually the issue- is it? Does anyone know the waitlist stats by zip code? I find it awful hard to believe this pool is so desirable that people who don’t live close by would wait 10 years on the waitlist to get in.

If it's a non-issue, then why not do this weighting approach anyways? I think it would go a long way to show the pool is in fact not a little segregated colony of people who will vacation in PGC but not want to live here.

+1

Geographic catchment area perpetuate racist policies. I vote no.

But the pool is clearly all white? Just walk by on a weekend or look at the pool website pics. I guess it would be racist against whites?

Oh weird. My family is black and belongs to the pool. I guess you didn't see us there at the grill. Or our kids on the swim team. What are you even going on about ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Funny that the members I know are all from DC, white, incredibly woke and incredibly smug. Don’t know how the pool could be racist.