Oakton crash

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As of its 5:22 p.m. update, the Post is identifying the teen pedestrians as Oakton HS students. Here is part of that article:

Two Oakton High School students were killed and another was critically injured Tuesday when two vehicles collided and spun out of control at an intersection where the youths were walking, Fairfax County police said.

The victims, all teenage girls, were a block from their school, police said. This is the final week of the school year at Oakton and Tuesday was an early-release day, with classes ending at 11:30 a.m., shortly before the fatal accident.

The crash occurred about 11:46 a.m. at Blake Lane and Five Oaks Road in the Oakton area, on the opposite side of Route 66 from the school, according to Maj. Eli Cory, a police spokesman. He said the three girls, whom he did not identify, were taken to a hospital, where authorities later said two of them were pronounced dead. He said the third student’s injuries were “life-threatening."


The driver and a passenger from one of the vehicles, who also are juveniles, were injured but not seriously, he said. It was unclear if they also went to Oakton.

Cory said a BMW was traveling south on Blake “at a very high rate of speed” while the driver of a Toyota 4Runner, headed north on Blake, was attempting to turn left onto Five Oaks. The BMW stuck the 4Runner, then “ricocheted off the side of the road, hit the three pedestrians, hit a pole on the side of the road and finally came to rest down the street,” he said.



The three girls were walking along Blake and had just crossed Five Oaks before the 4Runner’s driver tried to make the turn, Cory said.

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The article does continue after that but that's the gist of it. So sad about the students killed--we have dear friends with an Oakton grad this year and this is sickening.

Everyone harping on the BMW driver, sounds like 4Runner misjudged the timing needed for the left hand turn directly in front of the BMW. BMW had no time to stop - even if they weren't speeding.

I was wondering the same thing. I am unfamiliar with the intersection, so I did not know if the 4Runner misjudged the turn, or was waiting for the turn as the girls crossed the road, all looked clear and then the BMW came up really fast. Regardless, tragic for all involved.

I live near the area and I've used that intersection a lot (from the direction of the BMW) b/c my kid went to Mosby Woods (which is on Five Oaks). I drove on Blake today to get back home. I was in the traffic direction that the Toyota 4 Runner would have travelled (going north on Blake). I made a mental note of what the sight line is like for the Toyota as it prepared to turn left.

Basically, there is one block of visual sight line in the lane that the Toyota had to cross. So, the Toyota driver would have been able to see a block worth of traffic coming at him. And anyone coming south (such as the BMW) would have a full block view ahead toward the intersection of Black and Five Oaks. (prior to that, there is a bit of a dip/hill). Anyone driving south (such as the BMW) would have had one full block of driving time to slow down if a car was in the process of turning across its lane. If the BMW/south bound car was going 55 mph, there would be plenty of time to slow down significantly -- even if it made some impact.

The fact that the crash was SOOO forceful that the BMW ricocheted off, hit the girls and still had enough force to take out a wooden pole, suggests that the BMW had quite a bit of velocity heading into the crash. We know that the Toyota could not have been going very fast because it just started moving after a full stop. I would think the Toyota couldn't have been going more than 15 mph.

Accident reconstruction experts will determine how much speed the BMW had. But, if they had been speeding only 20 mph over the limit, there was enough time (based on the sightline) to slow down or stop.

I know a member of the VA State Trooper's accident reconstruction team. They are always clear that what you think you know from a glance at the scene of the accident is often not an accurate accounting of what took place.

They are trained to slowly and painstakingly reconstruct the scene of the accident. It's a difficult job and I thank all of those who take it on. Imagine the images they see and live with, all so that justice can be served.

We can guess all we want. It amounts to just that, a guess.

Yes, we here on DCUM are not experts in accident reconstruction. We do have eyes.

The police seem to be focussing pretty squarely on the 18 yr old BMW driver. See the release below. They say:

"Details of the investigation will be presented to the Office of the Commonwealth’s Attorney to determine the appropriate charges on all parties involved. Once charged and arrested, the identity of the BMW driver will be released. "

https://fcpdnews.wordpress.com/2022/06/08/two-pedestrians-succumb-to-injuries-in-crash/


I mean -- the Fairfax County Police Dept. isn't saying "hold your judgment until we figure this out." They are clearly thinking about what charges can be made AGAINST THE BMW DRIVER, and not what charges can be made against the Toyota driver.

He is still somebody baby, and I feel very bad for him, I just bad happens to him and we can learn from our mistakes. I know the kid and he is a great smart kid, had over a 3.5 GPA.

His mistake. The dead girls didn't make a mistake.

He didn't even "make a mistake." He made an "intentional." A "mistake" is an accident, unintended, unexpected. This BMW driver intentionally drove in such a fast reckless manner that it was obvious he had no ability to stop. I almost feel like it's worse that he's 18. At least a 16 or 17 yr old has the "lack of experience" explanation. By the time you are 18, you've surely driven quite a few times. You know you can't be going 80+ on any roads in Fairfax County.... especially roads with stop lights.

My recentLy finished drivers Ed DD informed me that 80 mph is per se reckless endangerment on any road in the state.
Your license will be removed and you will be charged with RE.

Citation? I do not think so, unless that is somewhat recent.

Adult relative ticketed in southern VA (near NC border) driving on a 70 MPH road in excess of 80. License was not removed. Got a citation to appear in court (optional) and pay a big fine (not optional). License was suspended in VA for 30 days. Person is not a VA resident, so little impact on that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As of its 5:22 p.m. update, the Post is identifying the teen pedestrians as Oakton HS students. Here is part of that article:

Two Oakton High School students were killed and another was critically injured Tuesday when two vehicles collided and spun out of control at an intersection where the youths were walking, Fairfax County police said.

The victims, all teenage girls, were a block from their school, police said. This is the final week of the school year at Oakton and Tuesday was an early-release day, with classes ending at 11:30 a.m., shortly before the fatal accident.

The crash occurred about 11:46 a.m. at Blake Lane and Five Oaks Road in the Oakton area, on the opposite side of Route 66 from the school, according to Maj. Eli Cory, a police spokesman. He said the three girls, whom he did not identify, were taken to a hospital, where authorities later said two of them were pronounced dead. He said the third student’s injuries were “life-threatening."


The driver and a passenger from one of the vehicles, who also are juveniles, were injured but not seriously, he said. It was unclear if they also went to Oakton.

Cory said a BMW was traveling south on Blake “at a very high rate of speed” while the driver of a Toyota 4Runner, headed north on Blake, was attempting to turn left onto Five Oaks. The BMW stuck the 4Runner, then “ricocheted off the side of the road, hit the three pedestrians, hit a pole on the side of the road and finally came to rest down the street,” he said.



The three girls were walking along Blake and had just crossed Five Oaks before the 4Runner’s driver tried to make the turn, Cory said.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The article does continue after that but that's the gist of it. So sad about the students killed--we have dear friends with an Oakton grad this year and this is sickening.

Everyone harping on the BMW driver, sounds like 4Runner misjudged the timing needed for the left hand turn directly in front of the BMW. BMW had no time to stop - even if they weren't speeding.

I was wondering the same thing. I am unfamiliar with the intersection, so I did not know if the 4Runner misjudged the turn, or was waiting for the turn as the girls crossed the road, all looked clear and then the BMW came up really fast. Regardless, tragic for all involved.

I live near the area and I've used that intersection a lot (from the direction of the BMW) b/c my kid went to Mosby Woods (which is on Five Oaks). I drove on Blake today to get back home. I was in the traffic direction that the Toyota 4 Runner would have travelled (going north on Blake). I made a mental note of what the sight line is like for the Toyota as it prepared to turn left.

Basically, there is one block of visual sight line in the lane that the Toyota had to cross. So, the Toyota driver would have been able to see a block worth of traffic coming at him. And anyone coming south (such as the BMW) would have a full block view ahead toward the intersection of Black and Five Oaks. (prior to that, there is a bit of a dip/hill). Anyone driving south (such as the BMW) would have had one full block of driving time to slow down if a car was in the process of turning across its lane. If the BMW/south bound car was going 55 mph, there would be plenty of time to slow down significantly -- even if it made some impact.

The fact that the crash was SOOO forceful that the BMW ricocheted off, hit the girls and still had enough force to take out a wooden pole, suggests that the BMW had quite a bit of velocity heading into the crash. We know that the Toyota could not have been going very fast because it just started moving after a full stop. I would think the Toyota couldn't have been going more than 15 mph.

Accident reconstruction experts will determine how much speed the BMW had. But, if they had been speeding only 20 mph over the limit, there was enough time (based on the sightline) to slow down or stop.

I know a member of the VA State Trooper's accident reconstruction team. They are always clear that what you think you know from a glance at the scene of the accident is often not an accurate accounting of what took place.

They are trained to slowly and painstakingly reconstruct the scene of the accident. It's a difficult job and I thank all of those who take it on. Imagine the images they see and live with, all so that justice can be served.

We can guess all we want. It amounts to just that, a guess.

Yes, we here on DCUM are not experts in accident reconstruction. We do have eyes.

The police seem to be focussing pretty squarely on the 18 yr old BMW driver. See the release below. They say:

"Details of the investigation will be presented to the Office of the Commonwealth’s Attorney to determine the appropriate charges on all parties involved. Once charged and arrested, the identity of the BMW driver will be released. "

https://fcpdnews.wordpress.com/2022/06/08/two-pedestrians-succumb-to-injuries-in-crash/

I mean -- the Fairfax County Police Dept. isn't saying "hold your judgment until we figure this out." They are clearly thinking about what charges can be made AGAINST THE BMW DRIVER, and not what charges can be made against the Toyota driver.

Wait, so he is 18? I thought that earlier reporting suggested that he was a minor (I know I was 17 until partway through my first year in college).
Hypothetically, if he were 17 at the time of the incident but turned 18 before the trial, would he be charged as an adult or a minor?

There have been various reports. Obviously, you would think the FCPD announcement would be most accurate. In this video (yesterday, I think) NBC reporter says they were all 17 (in the BMW). https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/2-dead-3-hurt-high-speed-pedestrian-crash-fairfax-near-oakton-high-school/3071454/

Also, notice how far from the intersection the BMW is when it stopped. It's about a block south of the intersection where the impact with the Toyota happened. That BMW HAD to be going very fast to get that far from the impact, and the additional impact with the utility pole.

I still can't understand how this lined up, though. The Toyota impacted the BWM at the front of the Toyota. Based on the paint marks (green) on the side of the BMW, it appears that the Toyota made contact on the driver's side of the BMW.... so that would imply that the Toyota hit the side of the BMW (like a T-bone). But, that doesn't make sense with the BMW being at fault.

Can anyone make out how the impact might have happened? Who was where? Based on the pictures of the cars?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blake lane has a 35 MPH speed limit but people regularly go 50 to 55 MPH. I was ticketed going 50 on Blake without even trying. I betting it was the rain and the BMW hydroplaned after the afternoon storm. Sad news for the kids. Oakton HS is my base school.

Congrats on regularly speeding near a school.

+1000

I hope the PP thinks twice before doing it again. Just because others do it doesn’t make it right. Goodness gracious.

NP here - are you familiar with Blake Lane? It's a 4-lane divided road - it's one of those places where it "feels" like the speed limit should be 45. And the school is nearby, not directly on Blake Lane. Please note - NONE of this excuses the reckless driving, but just pointing out - if you didn't know the school, you probably wouldn't know it was nearby.

Hmm.. to anyone who actually LIVES along Blake Lane, it sure doesn't "feel" like a 45 mph. It "feels" to me like my residential neighborhood where people need to effing slow down. Nothing bad will happen if it takes you a few more minutes to get to Chik-Fila. We are all responsible for creating a safe environment.

I live near this road too and I am amazed at the number of accidents that occur along it. It definitely needs traffic calming measures weather that means more lights and timing them so that you have to to stop every block or so in a way that forces drivers to think about another route if they are in a hurry (Vienna clearly does this and the effect I don’t drive through unless I absolutely have too.) or planting trees in the median which has been shown to gsr people to slow down. Look less like a highway and more like a neighborhood road.

Personally, I’m hoping that 66 construction completion will encourage more people to not cut through on Blake to Jermantown on the way to somewhere else.

The traffic is so bad on that road and with new development at the AT&T site it’s only going to get worse.

The community can petition for speed bumps.

We can't. VDOT only allows speed bumps on a road 25 mph or less, Blake is 35 mph in this area. We'd first have to petition VDOT to lower the speed limit, which I believe they will be extremely reluctant to do. If they did, they could install speed bumps or roundabouts (or more signals, as proposed above). But they'd first have to lower the speed limit. I think that's a great idea, but it's going to be a tough sell and require a TON of community support.

People may routinely speed on Blake Lane going 10-20 miles over the speed limit. Obviously not good for those living around Blake Ln. But, those kinds of speeding ranges are NOT what caused the accident here. So, I feel like those wanting traffic calming on Blake shouldn't be using this situation to support their case. The level of speeding here was apparently FAR BEYOND whatever is normally happening on Blake.

VDOT is a joke with speed bumps. They leave it to a community vote and if there is not sufficient buy-in, that kills it. We had cars clocked at 50 mph (no sidewalks, street lights, not even street markings on our street). People had hit road signs. People had slammed into trees. But, nope. Dickhead neighbors who want to speed down the street with their cars unmolested by speed humps voted it down. Complete joke of a process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As of its 5:22 p.m. update, the Post is identifying the teen pedestrians as Oakton HS students. Here is part of that article:

Two Oakton High School students were killed and another was critically injured Tuesday when two vehicles collided and spun out of control at an intersection where the youths were walking, Fairfax County police said.

The victims, all teenage girls, were a block from their school, police said. This is the final week of the school year at Oakton and Tuesday was an early-release day, with classes ending at 11:30 a.m., shortly before the fatal accident.

The crash occurred about 11:46 a.m. at Blake Lane and Five Oaks Road in the Oakton area, on the opposite side of Route 66 from the school, according to Maj. Eli Cory, a police spokesman. He said the three girls, whom he did not identify, were taken to a hospital, where authorities later said two of them were pronounced dead. He said the third student’s injuries were “life-threatening."


The driver and a passenger from one of the vehicles, who also are juveniles, were injured but not seriously, he said. It was unclear if they also went to Oakton.

Cory said a BMW was traveling south on Blake “at a very high rate of speed” while the driver of a Toyota 4Runner, headed north on Blake, was attempting to turn left onto Five Oaks. The BMW stuck the 4Runner, then “ricocheted off the side of the road, hit the three pedestrians, hit a pole on the side of the road and finally came to rest down the street,” he said.



The three girls were walking along Blake and had just crossed Five Oaks before the 4Runner’s driver tried to make the turn, Cory said.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The article does continue after that but that's the gist of it. So sad about the students killed--we have dear friends with an Oakton grad this year and this is sickening.

Everyone harping on the BMW driver, sounds like 4Runner misjudged the timing needed for the left hand turn directly in front of the BMW. BMW had no time to stop - even if they weren't speeding.

I was wondering the same thing. I am unfamiliar with the intersection, so I did not know if the 4Runner misjudged the turn, or was waiting for the turn as the girls crossed the road, all looked clear and then the BMW came up really fast. Regardless, tragic for all involved.

I live near the area and I've used that intersection a lot (from the direction of the BMW) b/c my kid went to Mosby Woods (which is on Five Oaks). I drove on Blake today to get back home. I was in the traffic direction that the Toyota 4 Runner would have travelled (going north on Blake). I made a mental note of what the sight line is like for the Toyota as it prepared to turn left.

Basically, there is one block of visual sight line in the lane that the Toyota had to cross. So, the Toyota driver would have been able to see a block worth of traffic coming at him. And anyone coming south (such as the BMW) would have a full block view ahead toward the intersection of Black and Five Oaks. (prior to that, there is a bit of a dip/hill). Anyone driving south (such as the BMW) would have had one full block of driving time to slow down if a car was in the process of turning across its lane. If the BMW/south bound car was going 55 mph, there would be plenty of time to slow down significantly -- even if it made some impact.

The fact that the crash was SOOO forceful that the BMW ricocheted off, hit the girls and still had enough force to take out a wooden pole, suggests that the BMW had quite a bit of velocity heading into the crash. We know that the Toyota could not have been going very fast because it just started moving after a full stop. I would think the Toyota couldn't have been going more than 15 mph.

Accident reconstruction experts will determine how much speed the BMW had. But, if they had been speeding only 20 mph over the limit, there was enough time (based on the sightline) to slow down or stop.

I know a member of the VA State Trooper's accident reconstruction team. They are always clear that what you think you know from a glance at the scene of the accident is often not an accurate accounting of what took place.

They are trained to slowly and painstakingly reconstruct the scene of the accident. It's a difficult job and I thank all of those who take it on. Imagine the images they see and live with, all so that justice can be served.

We can guess all we want. It amounts to just that, a guess.

Yes, we here on DCUM are not experts in accident reconstruction. We do have eyes.

The police seem to be focussing pretty squarely on the 18 yr old BMW driver. See the release below. They say:

"Details of the investigation will be presented to the Office of the Commonwealth’s Attorney to determine the appropriate charges on all parties involved. Once charged and arrested, the identity of the BMW driver will be released. "

https://fcpdnews.wordpress.com/2022/06/08/two-pedestrians-succumb-to-injuries-in-crash/


I mean -- the Fairfax County Police Dept. isn't saying "hold your judgment until we figure this out." They are clearly thinking about what charges can be made AGAINST THE BMW DRIVER, and not what charges can be made against the Toyota driver.

He is still somebody baby, and I feel very bad for him, I just bad happens to him and we can learn from our mistakes. I know the kid and he is a great smart kid, had over a 3.5 GPA.

His mistake. The dead girls didn't make a mistake.

He didn't even "make a mistake." He made an "intentional." A "mistake" is an accident, unintended, unexpected. This BMW driver intentionally drove in such a fast reckless manner that it was obvious he had no ability to stop. I almost feel like it's worse that he's 18. At least a 16 or 17 yr old has the "lack of experience" explanation. By the time you are 18, you've surely driven quite a few times. You know you can't be going 80+ on any roads in Fairfax County.... especially roads with stop lights.

My recentLy finished drivers Ed DD informed me that 80 mph is per se reckless endangerment on any road in the state.
Your license will be removed and you will be charged with RE.

Citation? I do not think so, unless that is somewhat recent.

Adult relative ticketed in southern VA (near NC border) driving on a 70 MPH road in excess of 80. License was not removed. Got a citation to appear in court (optional) and pay a big fine (not optional). License was suspended in VA for 30 days. Person is not a VA resident, so little impact on that.

Reckless driving can be charged if you are speeding 20 mph more than the speedlimit. And your license can be suspended for reckless driving. Reckless driving can also be charged based on the circumstances. But, I believe that if you are speeding at 20 mph+ above the speedlimit, it is presumptively "reckless driving" in VA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP - I do feel bad for everyone involved. The driver of the BMW didn’t intend to kill anyone. And the driver and his/her family will have to live with the consequences of the stupidity and recklessness of the actions forever. Of course, I feel immeasurably worse for the pedestrians and their families who did nothing wrong.

And I feel horrible for the Toyota driver, who was probably thinking if I just hadn’t taken the left turn… Poor guy.

For sure. He's thinking... if only I had left home 2 min. earlier... or 2 min. later, these two girls would be alive today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP - I do feel bad for everyone involved. The driver of the BMW didn’t intend to kill anyone. And the driver and his/her family will have to live with the consequences of the stupidity and recklessness of the actions forever. Of course, I feel immeasurably worse for the pedestrians and their families who did nothing wrong.

And I feel horrible for the Toyota driver, who was probably thinking if I just hadn’t taken the left turn… Poor guy.

For sure. He's thinking... if only I had left home 2 min. earlier... or 2 min. later, these two girls would be alive today.

so now is his fault?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP - I do feel bad for everyone involved. The driver of the BMW didn’t intend to kill anyone. And the driver and his/her family will have to live with the consequences of the stupidity and recklessness of the actions forever. Of course, I feel immeasurably worse for the pedestrians and their families who did nothing wrong.

And I feel horrible for the Toyota driver, who was probably thinking if I just hadn’t taken the left turn… Poor guy.

For sure. He's thinking... if only I had left home 2 min. earlier... or 2 min. later, these two girls would be alive today.

and lets also blame the girls for not eating lunch at school and everyone BUT the BMW driver. SMH

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As of its 5:22 p.m. update, the Post is identifying the teen pedestrians as Oakton HS students. Here is part of that article:

Two Oakton High School students were killed and another was critically injured Tuesday when two vehicles collided and spun out of control at an intersection where the youths were walking, Fairfax County police said.

The victims, all teenage girls, were a block from their school, police said. This is the final week of the school year at Oakton and Tuesday was an early-release day, with classes ending at 11:30 a.m., shortly before the fatal accident.

The crash occurred about 11:46 a.m. at Blake Lane and Five Oaks Road in the Oakton area, on the opposite side of Route 66 from the school, according to Maj. Eli Cory, a police spokesman. He said the three girls, whom he did not identify, were taken to a hospital, where authorities later said two of them were pronounced dead. He said the third student’s injuries were “life-threatening."


The driver and a passenger from one of the vehicles, who also are juveniles, were injured but not seriously, he said. It was unclear if they also went to Oakton.

Cory said a BMW was traveling south on Blake “at a very high rate of speed” while the driver of a Toyota 4Runner, headed north on Blake, was attempting to turn left onto Five Oaks. The BMW stuck the 4Runner, then “ricocheted off the side of the road, hit the three pedestrians, hit a pole on the side of the road and finally came to rest down the street,” he said.



The three girls were walking along Blake and had just crossed Five Oaks before the 4Runner’s driver tried to make the turn, Cory said.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The article does continue after that but that's the gist of it. So sad about the students killed--we have dear friends with an Oakton grad this year and this is sickening.

Everyone harping on the BMW driver, sounds like 4Runner misjudged the timing needed for the left hand turn directly in front of the BMW. BMW had no time to stop - even if they weren't speeding.

I was wondering the same thing. I am unfamiliar with the intersection, so I did not know if the 4Runner misjudged the turn, or was waiting for the turn as the girls crossed the road, all looked clear and then the BMW came up really fast. Regardless, tragic for all involved.

I live near the area and I've used that intersection a lot (from the direction of the BMW) b/c my kid went to Mosby Woods (which is on Five Oaks). I drove on Blake today to get back home. I was in the traffic direction that the Toyota 4 Runner would have travelled (going north on Blake). I made a mental note of what the sight line is like for the Toyota as it prepared to turn left.

Basically, there is one block of visual sight line in the lane that the Toyota had to cross. So, the Toyota driver would have been able to see a block worth of traffic coming at him. And anyone coming south (such as the BMW) would have a full block view ahead toward the intersection of Black and Five Oaks. (prior to that, there is a bit of a dip/hill). Anyone driving south (such as the BMW) would have had one full block of driving time to slow down if a car was in the process of turning across its lane. If the BMW/south bound car was going 55 mph, there would be plenty of time to slow down significantly -- even if it made some impact.

The fact that the crash was SOOO forceful that the BMW ricocheted off, hit the girls and still had enough force to take out a wooden pole, suggests that the BMW had quite a bit of velocity heading into the crash. We know that the Toyota could not have been going very fast because it just started moving after a full stop. I would think the Toyota couldn't have been going more than 15 mph.

Accident reconstruction experts will determine how much speed the BMW had. But, if they had been speeding only 20 mph over the limit, there was enough time (based on the sightline) to slow down or stop.

I know a member of the VA State Trooper's accident reconstruction team. They are always clear that what you think you know from a glance at the scene of the accident is often not an accurate accounting of what took place.

They are trained to slowly and painstakingly reconstruct the scene of the accident. It's a difficult job and I thank all of those who take it on. Imagine the images they see and live with, all so that justice can be served.

We can guess all we want. It amounts to just that, a guess.

Yes, we here on DCUM are not experts in accident reconstruction. We do have eyes.

The police seem to be focussing pretty squarely on the 18 yr old BMW driver. See the release below. They say:

"Details of the investigation will be presented to the Office of the Commonwealth’s Attorney to determine the appropriate charges on all parties involved. Once charged and arrested, the identity of the BMW driver will be released. "

https://fcpdnews.wordpress.com/2022/06/08/two-pedestrians-succumb-to-injuries-in-crash/


I mean -- the Fairfax County Police Dept. isn't saying "hold your judgment until we figure this out." They are clearly thinking about what charges can be made AGAINST THE BMW DRIVER, and not what charges can be made against the Toyota driver.

He is still somebody baby, and I feel very bad for him, I just bad happens to him and we can learn from our mistakes. I know the kid and he is a great smart kid, had over a 3.5 GPA.

His mistake. The dead girls didn't make a mistake.

He didn't even "make a mistake." He made an "intentional." A "mistake" is an accident, unintended, unexpected. This BMW driver intentionally drove in such a fast reckless manner that it was obvious he had no ability to stop. I almost feel like it's worse that he's 18. At least a 16 or 17 yr old has the "lack of experience" explanation. By the time you are 18, you've surely driven quite a few times. You know you can't be going 80+ on any roads in Fairfax County.... especially roads with stop lights.

My recentLy finished drivers Ed DD informed me that 80 mph is per se reckless endangerment on any road in the state.
Your license will be removed and you will be charged with RE.

Citation? I do not think so, unless that is somewhat recent.

Adult relative ticketed in southern VA (near NC border) driving on a 70 MPH road in excess of 80. License was not removed. Got a citation to appear in court (optional) and pay a big fine (not optional). License was suspended in VA for 30 days. Person is not a VA resident, so little impact on that.

As mentioned. Citation is a 17 year old who passed the written portion of the test in the last year. This could well apply to provisional licenses only.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP - I do feel bad for everyone involved. The driver of the BMW didn’t intend to kill anyone. And the driver and his/her family will have to live with the consequences of the stupidity and recklessness of the actions forever. Of course, I feel immeasurably worse for the pedestrians and their families who did nothing wrong.

And I feel horrible for the Toyota driver, who was probably thinking if I just hadn’t taken the left turn… Poor guy.

For sure. He's thinking... if only I had left home 2 min. earlier... or 2 min. later, these two girls would be alive today.

so now is his fault?

No. He’s one of the many casualties of the BMW’s recklessness. His life will never be the same again either. Not because he was at fault. But because he was there when two young girls died. And yes, if he had left a few minutes earlier Orr later, maybe the intersection would have been empty for the reckless fool driving the BMW.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As of its 5:22 p.m. update, the Post is identifying the teen pedestrians as Oakton HS students. Here is part of that article:

Two Oakton High School students were killed and another was critically injured Tuesday when two vehicles collided and spun out of control at an intersection where the youths were walking, Fairfax County police said.

The victims, all teenage girls, were a block from their school, police said. This is the final week of the school year at Oakton and Tuesday was an early-release day, with classes ending at 11:30 a.m., shortly before the fatal accident.

The crash occurred about 11:46 a.m. at Blake Lane and Five Oaks Road in the Oakton area, on the opposite side of Route 66 from the school, according to Maj. Eli Cory, a police spokesman. He said the three girls, whom he did not identify, were taken to a hospital, where authorities later said two of them were pronounced dead. He said the third student’s injuries were “life-threatening."


The driver and a passenger from one of the vehicles, who also are juveniles, were injured but not seriously, he said. It was unclear if they also went to Oakton.

Cory said a BMW was traveling south on Blake “at a very high rate of speed” while the driver of a Toyota 4Runner, headed north on Blake, was attempting to turn left onto Five Oaks. The BMW stuck the 4Runner, then “ricocheted off the side of the road, hit the three pedestrians, hit a pole on the side of the road and finally came to rest down the street,” he said.



The three girls were walking along Blake and had just crossed Five Oaks before the 4Runner’s driver tried to make the turn, Cory said.

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The article does continue after that but that's the gist of it. So sad about the students killed--we have dear friends with an Oakton grad this year and this is sickening.

Everyone harping on the BMW driver, sounds like 4Runner misjudged the timing needed for the left hand turn directly in front of the BMW. BMW had no time to stop - even if they weren't speeding.

I was wondering the same thing. I am unfamiliar with the intersection, so I did not know if the 4Runner misjudged the turn, or was waiting for the turn as the girls crossed the road, all looked clear and then the BMW came up really fast. Regardless, tragic for all involved.

I live near the area and I've used that intersection a lot (from the direction of the BMW) b/c my kid went to Mosby Woods (which is on Five Oaks). I drove on Blake today to get back home. I was in the traffic direction that the Toyota 4 Runner would have travelled (going north on Blake). I made a mental note of what the sight line is like for the Toyota as it prepared to turn left.

Basically, there is one block of visual sight line in the lane that the Toyota had to cross. So, the Toyota driver would have been able to see a block worth of traffic coming at him. And anyone coming south (such as the BMW) would have a full block view ahead toward the intersection of Black and Five Oaks. (prior to that, there is a bit of a dip/hill). Anyone driving south (such as the BMW) would have had one full block of driving time to slow down if a car was in the process of turning across its lane. If the BMW/south bound car was going 55 mph, there would be plenty of time to slow down significantly -- even if it made some impact.

The fact that the crash was SOOO forceful that the BMW ricocheted off, hit the girls and still had enough force to take out a wooden pole, suggests that the BMW had quite a bit of velocity heading into the crash. We know that the Toyota could not have been going very fast because it just started moving after a full stop. I would think the Toyota couldn't have been going more than 15 mph.

Accident reconstruction experts will determine how much speed the BMW had. But, if they had been speeding only 20 mph over the limit, there was enough time (based on the sightline) to slow down or stop.

I know a member of the VA State Trooper's accident reconstruction team. They are always clear that what you think you know from a glance at the scene of the accident is often not an accurate accounting of what took place.

They are trained to slowly and painstakingly reconstruct the scene of the accident. It's a difficult job and I thank all of those who take it on. Imagine the images they see and live with, all so that justice can be served.

We can guess all we want. It amounts to just that, a guess.

Yes, we here on DCUM are not experts in accident reconstruction. We do have eyes.

The police seem to be focussing pretty squarely on the 18 yr old BMW driver. See the release below. They say:

"Details of the investigation will be presented to the Office of the Commonwealth’s Attorney to determine the appropriate charges on all parties involved. Once charged and arrested, the identity of the BMW driver will be released. "

https://fcpdnews.wordpress.com/2022/06/08/two-pedestrians-succumb-to-injuries-in-crash/

I mean -- the Fairfax County Police Dept. isn't saying "hold your judgment until we figure this out." They are clearly thinking about what charges can be made AGAINST THE BMW DRIVER, and not what charges can be made against the Toyota driver.

Wait, so he is 18? I thought that earlier reporting suggested that he was a minor (I know I was 17 until partway through my first year in college).
Hypothetically, if he were 17 at the time of the incident but turned 18 before the trial, would he be charged as an adult or a minor?

This is from the FCPD site:

Detectives believe the driver of a 2018 BMW 530i, an 18-year-old of Fairfax, was traveling at a high rate of speed in the right lane of southbound Blake Lane.

“Believe”?? Didn’t the killer have a license indicating his birth date?

Please read the sentence again. It says they believe he was driving at a high rate of speed. Not that they believe he was an 18-year-old driver.

I love how online forums can turn a discussion of involuntary manslaughter into an argument over grammar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As of its 5:22 p.m. update, the Post is identifying the teen pedestrians as Oakton HS students. Here is part of that article:

Two Oakton High School students were killed and another was critically injured Tuesday when two vehicles collided and spun out of control at an intersection where the youths were walking, Fairfax County police said.

The victims, all teenage girls, were a block from their school, police said. This is the final week of the school year at Oakton and Tuesday was an early-release day, with classes ending at 11:30 a.m., shortly before the fatal accident.

The crash occurred about 11:46 a.m. at Blake Lane and Five Oaks Road in the Oakton area, on the opposite side of Route 66 from the school, according to Maj. Eli Cory, a police spokesman. He said the three girls, whom he did not identify, were taken to a hospital, where authorities later said two of them were pronounced dead. He said the third student’s injuries were “life-threatening."


The driver and a passenger from one of the vehicles, who also are juveniles, were injured but not seriously, he said. It was unclear if they also went to Oakton.

Cory said a BMW was traveling south on Blake “at a very high rate of speed” while the driver of a Toyota 4Runner, headed north on Blake, was attempting to turn left onto Five Oaks. The BMW stuck the 4Runner, then “ricocheted off the side of the road, hit the three pedestrians, hit a pole on the side of the road and finally came to rest down the street,” he said.



The three girls were walking along Blake and had just crossed Five Oaks before the 4Runner’s driver tried to make the turn, Cory said.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The article does continue after that but that's the gist of it. So sad about the students killed--we have dear friends with an Oakton grad this year and this is sickening.

Everyone harping on the BMW driver, sounds like 4Runner misjudged the timing needed for the left hand turn directly in front of the BMW. BMW had no time to stop - even if they weren't speeding.

I was wondering the same thing. I am unfamiliar with the intersection, so I did not know if the 4Runner misjudged the turn, or was waiting for the turn as the girls crossed the road, all looked clear and then the BMW came up really fast. Regardless, tragic for all involved.

I live near the area and I've used that intersection a lot (from the direction of the BMW) b/c my kid went to Mosby Woods (which is on Five Oaks). I drove on Blake today to get back home. I was in the traffic direction that the Toyota 4 Runner would have travelled (going north on Blake). I made a mental note of what the sight line is like for the Toyota as it prepared to turn left.

Basically, there is one block of visual sight line in the lane that the Toyota had to cross. So, the Toyota driver would have been able to see a block worth of traffic coming at him. And anyone coming south (such as the BMW) would have a full block view ahead toward the intersection of Black and Five Oaks. (prior to that, there is a bit of a dip/hill). Anyone driving south (such as the BMW) would have had one full block of driving time to slow down if a car was in the process of turning across its lane. If the BMW/south bound car was going 55 mph, there would be plenty of time to slow down significantly -- even if it made some impact.

The fact that the crash was SOOO forceful that the BMW ricocheted off, hit the girls and still had enough force to take out a wooden pole, suggests that the BMW had quite a bit of velocity heading into the crash. We know that the Toyota could not have been going very fast because it just started moving after a full stop. I would think the Toyota couldn't have been going more than 15 mph.

Accident reconstruction experts will determine how much speed the BMW had. But, if they had been speeding only 20 mph over the limit, there was enough time (based on the sightline) to slow down or stop.

I know a member of the VA State Trooper's accident reconstruction team. They are always clear that what you think you know from a glance at the scene of the accident is often not an accurate accounting of what took place.

They are trained to slowly and painstakingly reconstruct the scene of the accident. It's a difficult job and I thank all of those who take it on. Imagine the images they see and live with, all so that justice can be served.

We can guess all we want. It amounts to just that, a guess.

Yes, we here on DCUM are not experts in accident reconstruction. We do have eyes.

The police seem to be focussing pretty squarely on the 18 yr old BMW driver. See the release below. They say:

"Details of the investigation will be presented to the Office of the Commonwealth’s Attorney to determine the appropriate charges on all parties involved. Once charged and arrested, the identity of the BMW driver will be released. "

https://fcpdnews.wordpress.com/2022/06/08/two-pedestrians-succumb-to-injuries-in-crash/


I mean -- the Fairfax County Police Dept. isn't saying "hold your judgment until we figure this out." They are clearly thinking about what charges can be made AGAINST THE BMW DRIVER, and not what charges can be made against the Toyota driver.

He is still somebody baby, and I feel very bad for him, I just bad happens to him and we can learn from our mistakes. I know the kid and he is a great smart kid, had over a 3.5 GPA.

His mistake. The dead girls didn't make a mistake.

He didn't even "make a mistake." He made an "intentional." A "mistake" is an accident, unintended, unexpected. This BMW driver intentionally drove in such a fast reckless manner that it was obvious he had no ability to stop. I almost feel like it's worse that he's 18. At least a 16 or 17 yr old has the "lack of experience" explanation. By the time you are 18, you've surely driven quite a few times. You know you can't be going 80+ on any roads in Fairfax County.... especially roads with stop lights.

My recentLy finished drivers Ed DD informed me that 80 mph is per se reckless endangerment on any road in the state.
Your license will be removed and you will be charged with RE.

Citation? I do not think so, unless that is somewhat recent.

Adult relative ticketed in southern VA (near NC border) driving on a 70 MPH road in excess of 80. License was not removed. Got a citation to appear in court (optional) and pay a big fine (not optional). License was suspended in VA for 30 days. Person is not a VA resident, so little impact on that.

As mentioned. Citation is a 17 year old who passed the written portion of the test in the last year. This could well apply to provisional licenses only.

§ 46.2-862. Exceeding speed limit.
A person is guilty of reckless driving who drives a motor vehicle on the highways in the Commonwealth (i) at a speed of 20 miles per hour or more in excess of the applicable maximum speed limit or (ii) in excess of 85 miles per hour regardless of the applicable maximum speed limit.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacodefull/title46.2/chapter8/article7/#:~:text=Reckless%20driving%3B%20general%20rule.,be%20guilty%20of%20reckless%20driving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As of its 5:22 p.m. update, the Post is identifying the teen pedestrians as Oakton HS students. Here is part of that article:

Two Oakton High School students were killed and another was critically injured Tuesday when two vehicles collided and spun out of control at an intersection where the youths were walking, Fairfax County police said.

The victims, all teenage girls, were a block from their school, police said. This is the final week of the school year at Oakton and Tuesday was an early-release day, with classes ending at 11:30 a.m., shortly before the fatal accident.

The crash occurred about 11:46 a.m. at Blake Lane and Five Oaks Road in the Oakton area, on the opposite side of Route 66 from the school, according to Maj. Eli Cory, a police spokesman. He said the three girls, whom he did not identify, were taken to a hospital, where authorities later said two of them were pronounced dead. He said the third student’s injuries were “life-threatening."


The driver and a passenger from one of the vehicles, who also are juveniles, were injured but not seriously, he said. It was unclear if they also went to Oakton.

Cory said a BMW was traveling south on Blake “at a very high rate of speed” while the driver of a Toyota 4Runner, headed north on Blake, was attempting to turn left onto Five Oaks. The BMW stuck the 4Runner, then “ricocheted off the side of the road, hit the three pedestrians, hit a pole on the side of the road and finally came to rest down the street,” he said.



The three girls were walking along Blake and had just crossed Five Oaks before the 4Runner’s driver tried to make the turn, Cory said.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The article does continue after that but that's the gist of it. So sad about the students killed--we have dear friends with an Oakton grad this year and this is sickening.

Everyone harping on the BMW driver, sounds like 4Runner misjudged the timing needed for the left hand turn directly in front of the BMW. BMW had no time to stop - even if they weren't speeding.

I was wondering the same thing. I am unfamiliar with the intersection, so I did not know if the 4Runner misjudged the turn, or was waiting for the turn as the girls crossed the road, all looked clear and then the BMW came up really fast. Regardless, tragic for all involved.

I live near the area and I've used that intersection a lot (from the direction of the BMW) b/c my kid went to Mosby Woods (which is on Five Oaks). I drove on Blake today to get back home. I was in the traffic direction that the Toyota 4 Runner would have travelled (going north on Blake). I made a mental note of what the sight line is like for the Toyota as it prepared to turn left.

Basically, there is one block of visual sight line in the lane that the Toyota had to cross. So, the Toyota driver would have been able to see a block worth of traffic coming at him. And anyone coming south (such as the BMW) would have a full block view ahead toward the intersection of Black and Five Oaks. (prior to that, there is a bit of a dip/hill). Anyone driving south (such as the BMW) would have had one full block of driving time to slow down if a car was in the process of turning across its lane. If the BMW/south bound car was going 55 mph, there would be plenty of time to slow down significantly -- even if it made some impact.

The fact that the crash was SOOO forceful that the BMW ricocheted off, hit the girls and still had enough force to take out a wooden pole, suggests that the BMW had quite a bit of velocity heading into the crash. We know that the Toyota could not have been going very fast because it just started moving after a full stop. I would think the Toyota couldn't have been going more than 15 mph.

Accident reconstruction experts will determine how much speed the BMW had. But, if they had been speeding only 20 mph over the limit, there was enough time (based on the sightline) to slow down or stop.

I know a member of the VA State Trooper's accident reconstruction team. They are always clear that what you think you know from a glance at the scene of the accident is often not an accurate accounting of what took place.

They are trained to slowly and painstakingly reconstruct the scene of the accident. It's a difficult job and I thank all of those who take it on. Imagine the images they see and live with, all so that justice can be served.

We can guess all we want. It amounts to just that, a guess.

Yes, we here on DCUM are not experts in accident reconstruction. We do have eyes.

The police seem to be focussing pretty squarely on the 18 yr old BMW driver. See the release below. They say:

"Details of the investigation will be presented to the Office of the Commonwealth’s Attorney to determine the appropriate charges on all parties involved. Once charged and arrested, the identity of the BMW driver will be released. "

https://fcpdnews.wordpress.com/2022/06/08/two-pedestrians-succumb-to-injuries-in-crash/


I mean -- the Fairfax County Police Dept. isn't saying "hold your judgment until we figure this out." They are clearly thinking about what charges can be made AGAINST THE BMW DRIVER, and not what charges can be made against the Toyota driver.

He is still somebody baby, and I feel very bad for him, I just bad happens to him and we can learn from our mistakes. I know the kid and he is a great smart kid, had over a 3.5 GPA.

His mistake. The dead girls didn't make a mistake.

He didn't even "make a mistake." He made an "intentional." A "mistake" is an accident, unintended, unexpected. This BMW driver intentionally drove in such a fast reckless manner that it was obvious he had no ability to stop. I almost feel like it's worse that he's 18. At least a 16 or 17 yr old has the "lack of experience" explanation. By the time you are 18, you've surely driven quite a few times. You know you can't be going 80+ on any roads in Fairfax County.... especially roads with stop lights.

My recentLy finished drivers Ed DD informed me that 80 mph is per se reckless endangerment on any road in the state.
Your license will be removed and you will be charged with RE.

Citation? I do not think so, unless that is somewhat recent.

Adult relative ticketed in southern VA (near NC border) driving on a 70 MPH road in excess of 80. License was not removed. Got a citation to appear in court (optional) and pay a big fine (not optional). License was suspended in VA for 30 days. Person is not a VA resident, so little impact on that.

How can anyone living in Virginia not know the reckless driving laws. We're the only state that routinely sends speeders to prison if they are going more than 20 over

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP - I do feel bad for everyone involved. The driver of the BMW didn’t intend to kill anyone. And the driver and his/her family will have to live with the consequences of the stupidity and recklessness of the actions forever. Of course, I feel immeasurably worse for the pedestrians and their families who did nothing wrong.

And I feel horrible for the Toyota driver, who was probably thinking if I just hadn’t taken the left turn… Poor guy.

For sure. He's thinking... if only I had left home 2 min. earlier... or 2 min. later, these two girls would be alive today.

so now is his fault?

No, of course not! But we can sympathize with him as he is probably wracked with "what if's" -- and wishing he had done anything differently that morning so that he was not in that exact place at that exact minute. Wouldn't you be thinking that if you were involved in an accident -- even an accident that wasn't your fault? And even more so if people died?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP - I do feel bad for everyone involved. The driver of the BMW didn’t intend to kill anyone. And the driver and his/her family will have to live with the consequences of the stupidity and recklessness of the actions forever. Of course, I feel immeasurably worse for the pedestrians and their families who did nothing wrong.

And I feel horrible for the Toyota driver, who was probably thinking if I just hadn’t taken the left turn… Poor guy.

For sure. He's thinking... if only I had left home 2 min. earlier... or 2 min. later, these two girls would be alive today.

and lets also blame the girls for not eating lunch at school and everyone BUT the BMW driver. SMH

No one is BLAMING THEM. But, their friends might be thinking ... if only I had (or hadn't) talked to them longer. The surviving girl may be thinking -- if only I had (or hadn't) stopped to do X, Y or Z.

When something this catastrophic happens, the brain naturally wants to find a way to "un-do" it, in some futile hope of re-constructing the day to make it not happen the way it did. If you've lived through something traumatic or catastrophic, you would know that the mind wants to figure it out so that it didn't happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP - I do feel bad for everyone involved. The driver of the BMW didn’t intend to kill anyone. And the driver and his/her family will have to live with the consequences of the stupidity and recklessness of the actions forever. Of course, I feel immeasurably worse for the pedestrians and their families who did nothing wrong.

And I feel horrible for the Toyota driver, who was probably thinking if I just hadn’t taken the left turn… Poor guy.

For sure. He's thinking... if only I had left home 2 min. earlier... or 2 min. later, these two girls would be alive today.

so now is his fault?

No. He’s one of the many casualties of the BMW’s recklessness. His life will never be the same again either. Not because he was at fault. But because he was there when two young girls died. And yes, if he had left a few minutes earlier Orr later, maybe the intersection would have been empty for the reckless fool driving the BMW.

He shouldn't even think that. The reckless ass BMW driver would have killed others further down the street.