Is it time for private school vouchers in Montgomery County?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the economics. Where does 16k a kid go? Seems that 4 kids pay the teachers salary but class sizes are 20-25.

MCPS wastes an enormous amount of money. It’s insane. Plus the salaries of Central Office employees.

Look through DCUM for some threads about the enormous waste in MCPS.

Part of the issue is that MCPS is just too big and doesn’t have any oversight.

Yeah. But how much would hiring a lot of people and doing lots of audits cost?

How much do MCPS meetings that are never followed up on cost?

Privates are smaller and therefore more flexible to meet the needs of students.

MCPS is huge and doesn’t give a damn if children are educated. Leaders are constantly vying for that next promotion or lucrative contract hire after they leave MCPS. Even MCPS leadership doesn’t think that the schools are good enough for their children who are enrolled in private schools.

MCPS is fine. I think the real problem is bad parents. Their children would fail pretty much anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the economics. Where does 16k a kid go? Seems that 4 kids pay the teachers salary but class sizes are 20-25.

MCPS wastes an enormous amount of money. It’s insane. Plus the salaries of Central Office employees.

Look through DCUM for some threads about the enormous waste in MCPS.

Part of the issue is that MCPS is just too big and doesn’t have any oversight.

MCPS has lots of oversight (parents, BOE, local council, state superintendent DOE, Federal DOE, etc). Much more than any private school. I’m pretty sure that most principals, teachers, and folks would agree that less in some areas would be great. Like leas testing.

In error. No inspector general. Even it’s ‘evil’ twin - FCPS - has an IG. C’mon this is basic good governance! And you all claim to be as educated as Boston suburbs! Seat of government and all that. Maryland is flat out always in the top of ‘Legally corrupt lists, that’s why!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you take your child out of MCPS if there was a private school voucher program so Montgomery County residents had school choice?

While we're doing this, I thought maybe we could also have private vouchers for police and fire protection too! Think of the savings!

Yeah but they performed during the pandemic! True civil servants! Big difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the economics. Where does 16k a kid go? Seems that 4 kids pay the teachers salary but class sizes are 20-25.

MCPS wastes an enormous amount of money. It’s insane. Plus the salaries of Central Office employees.

Look through DCUM for some threads about the enormous waste in MCPS.

Part of the issue is that MCPS is just too big and doesn’t have any oversight.

Yeah. But how much would hiring a lot of people and doing lots of audits cost?

How much do MCPS meetings that are never followed up on cost?

Privates are smaller and therefore more flexible to meet the needs of students.

MCPS is huge and doesn’t give a damn if children are educated. Leaders are constantly vying for that next promotion or lucrative contract hire after they leave MCPS. Even MCPS leadership doesn’t think that the schools are good enough for their children who are enrolled in private schools.

MCPS is fine. I think the real problem is bad parents. Their children would fail pretty much anywhere.

You definitely work for the schools. I swear I got this line from DC’s teacher back in first grade after dyslexia diagnosis (although county would not and still won’t use that word).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The IEP (a collective team process including the parents and the school) define what a child’s needs. When the school repeatedly fails to implement the IEP or identify a child’s needs from the failure of a comprehensive evaluation, the children do not receive FAPE.

$16,000 is far more than nothing. Many families could take $16,000 add to that and give their children opportunities that don’t exist in MCPS. The program would allow for school choice.

Yes, private schools don’t have to accept students similarly to colleges can exclude students. However, there are private schools that value diversity and there are private schools that specialize for students with disabilities.

If every parent of a SN child with an IEP decided to go private here with their $16K, do you think all the private schools would be able to accommodate them? I'm thinking not.

Do you think the cost at that private school would remain the same with a huge increase in SN students who have IEPs?

SN students are a diverse population of students with various needs.

I took my oldest child out of MCPS and put him in a general education private school that had a disability coordinator. He was treated with respect by students and staff. Class sizes were significantly smaller so he had more direct attention by the teacher. Many of the goals on his MCPS IEP were core foundational skills that between his daily study hall checkins with the disabilities coordinator during study hall and the direct support of teachers, he made significant progress and was independently ready for college upon graduation.

Beyond the lack of educational support and the lower expectations in MCPS, I funded my child’s private education because of severe bullying that posed a safety risk to my child in MCPS. He received cyber threats that told him to kill him self. I shared those threats to the school and nothing was done to protect my child. The climate was extremely toxic so I truly was just trying to help him literally survive high school.

School choice, is just that, a choice. It gives parents options. Perhaps it would incentivize MCPS to do better.

*1000. Did the exact same thing. Right now the bureaucracy says ‘all the schools are great’ and moves on spending its 3 billion a year. MCPS fails basic blocking and tackling. It’s all due to their toxic me first teacher culture - no wonder they closed for 18 months!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the economics. Where does 16k a kid go? Seems that 4 kids pay the teachers salary but class sizes are 20-25.

MCPS wastes an enormous amount of money. It’s insane. Plus the salaries of Central Office employees.

Look through DCUM for some threads about the enormous waste in MCPS.

Part of the issue is that MCPS is just too big and doesn’t have any oversight.

Yeah. But how much would hiring a lot of people and doing lots of audits cost?

How much do MCPS meetings that are never followed up on cost?

Privates are smaller and therefore more flexible to meet the needs of students.

MCPS is huge and doesn’t give a damn if children are educated. Leaders are constantly vying for that next promotion or lucrative contract hire after they leave MCPS. Even MCPS leadership doesn’t think that the schools are good enough for their children who are enrolled in private schools.

MCPS is fine. I think the real problem is bad parents. Their children would fail pretty much anywhere.

You definitely work for the schools. I swear I got this line from DC’s teacher back in first grade after dyslexia diagnosis (although county would not and still won’t use that word).

What did you do to fix it? Anyone with a child who needs help, knows not to rely on MCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the economics. Where does 16k a kid go? Seems that 4 kids pay the teachers salary but class sizes are 20-25.

MCPS wastes an enormous amount of money. It’s insane. Plus the salaries of Central Office employees.

Look through DCUM for some threads about the enormous waste in MCPS.

Part of the issue is that MCPS is just too big and doesn’t have any oversight.

Yeah. But how much would hiring a lot of people and doing lots of audits cost?

How much do MCPS meetings that are never followed up on cost?

Privates are smaller and therefore more flexible to meet the needs of students.

MCPS is huge and doesn’t give a damn if children are educated. Leaders are constantly vying for that next promotion or lucrative contract hire after they leave MCPS. Even MCPS leadership doesn’t think that the schools are good enough for their children who are enrolled in private schools.

MCPS is fine. I think the real problem is bad parents. Their children would fail pretty much anywhere.

You definitely work for the schools. I swear I got this line from DC’s teacher back in first grade after dyslexia diagnosis (although county would not and still won’t use that word).

What did you do to fix it? Anyone with a child who needs help, knows not to rely on MCPS

Oh I fixed it…left, thank you very much teacher! Now, what do YOU do for these children for your salary as a public servant for the hours you have them? I’ll take my answer off the air. Don’t have a lifetime to wait…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP you are citing multiple posters and trying to lump different arguments into one.

Many special populations - special needs students being one - fell disproportionately behind than other students according to MCPS data presented to the Board of Ed. MCPS was quick to remove the supports and services that these students legally need for accessibility. MCPS has been slow to provide services so special needs students can catch up. This equates to a two year decline for students with special needs. Enough is enough. We are tired of our students being treated as an afterthought by MCPS, and as one PP has expressed, not deserving of educational benefit. That’s taking a whole student group that gained rights under the ADA, Section 504, and the IDEA back to pre-Civil Rights level of discrimination.

Parents are tired with fighting with MCPS for basic services listed on IEPs that aren’t being provided. School choice would provide us a financial mechanism to be able to leave MCPS to a school that wants to educate them.

My child has an IEP. I haven't seen their issues not being addressed. True, their issues aren't very complicated compared to.some.

But you are speaking for your own family. Not for all of us. Like you, I assume, I'm also on the various SN list serves and Facebook groups. There's no groundswell of parents demanding school vouchers. And you don't seem to be complaining there about it.

At this point I think at least half a dozen different posters have explained to you why school choice isn't going to give your child a magic placement that will "fix" them. That horrible troll post about damaged kids had one element of truth in what they said that perhaps you need to hear:

Our kids aren't "normal," whatever that even means. It's ablelist for you to assume our kids can meet your arbitrary goals and that only some vast Moco conspiracy is what's holding them back. Maybe what's holding your child back is his father's massive sense of entitlement and privilege.

Except what MCPS is doing (not providing more than de minimus) is against federal law. Gosh, some of you are so dim! Just because your kids can memorize things quickly doesn’t mean our kids (who may have working memory issues) aren’t bright and are being ignored. (As an example).

MCPS is a despicable organization - but if your kid is in Blair Magnet - you wouldn’t even realize it. Or you work for the schools - Moco is America’s Venezuela… everyone works for the schools or the county.

Charters are one of the few ways to give a monopoly a signal - you are sub-optimal. With so many county workers as voters it’s challenging to change the status quo.

+1 million

This is exactly ir.

+1000 - There are many reasons why teachers get on DCUM and defend the indefensible. How students with disabilities are discriminated against is one reason parents want alternative options.

If you are happy with MCPS (particularly if MCPS is paying for your child’s private education) then count your children blessed. Some disabilities are more appropriately addressed by MCPS than others. Some schools do a better job than others. It doesn’t mean the voice of complaints aren’t valid. The State complaint losses are piling up. The OCR complaints are piling up. Due Process is a longer venue and the last result, so they will begin piling up as well.

Even though some PPs have clear implicit bias about educating students with disabilities, all students deserve FAPE - a Free Appropriate Public Education.

Corrected for you

Nope. Now it’s right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP you are citing multiple posters and trying to lump different arguments into one.

Many special populations - special needs students being one - fell disproportionately behind than other students according to MCPS data presented to the Board of Ed. MCPS was quick to remove the supports and services that these students legally need for accessibility. MCPS has been slow to provide services so special needs students can catch up. This equates to a two year decline for students with special needs. Enough is enough. We are tired of our students being treated as an afterthought by MCPS, and as one PP has expressed, not deserving of educational benefit. That’s taking a whole student group that gained rights under the ADA, Section 504, and the IDEA back to pre-Civil Rights level of discrimination.

Parents are tired with fighting with MCPS for basic services listed on IEPs that aren’t being provided. School choice would provide us a financial mechanism to be able to leave MCPS to a school that wants to educate them.

My child has an IEP. I haven't seen their issues not being addressed. True, their issues aren't very complicated compared to.some.

But you are speaking for your own family. Not for all of us. Like you, I assume, I'm also on the various SN list serves and Facebook groups. There's no groundswell of parents demanding school vouchers. And you don't seem to be complaining there about it.

At this point I think at least half a dozen different posters have explained to you why school choice isn't going to give your child a magic placement that will "fix" them. That horrible troll post about damaged kids had one element of truth in what they said that perhaps you need to hear:

Our kids aren't "normal," whatever that even means. It's ablelist for you to assume our kids can meet your arbitrary goals and that only some vast Moco conspiracy is what's holding them back. Maybe what's holding your child back is his father's massive sense of entitlement and privilege.

Except what MCPS is doing (not providing more than de minimus) is against federal law. Gosh, some of you are so dim! Just because your kids can memorize things quickly doesn’t mean our kids (who may have working memory issues) aren’t bright and are being ignored. (As an example).

MCPS is a despicable organization - but if your kid is in Blair Magnet - you wouldn’t even realize it. Or you work for the schools - Moco is America’s Venezuela… everyone works for the schools or the county.

Charters are one of the few ways to give a monopoly a signal - you are sub-optimal. With so many county workers as voters it’s challenging to change the status quo.

Calling people “dim” while you rant about “monopolies” in a discussion of special needs education is probably not going to win you much support.
Raving using terms from an Econ cliff notes guide that you don’t really understand isn’t going to win you much support either.
I wondered if you were Chris Whittle trying to get support for his next scam, but, reportedly, he usually starts with a charm offensive and presentations that at least sound good, so: nah.

Actually seeing a lot of support on here. Shocking actually given the People’s Republic nature of the place. Look once you’ve been through the MCPS IEP meat grinder you are changed. If you have a neurotypical kid I get it - cram school and move on to UMD.

[Anonymous]

Also Whittle remained open during the pandemic!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the economics. Where does 16k a kid go? Seems that 4 kids pay the teachers salary but class sizes are 20-25.

MCPS wastes an enormous amount of money. It’s insane. Plus the salaries of Central Office employees.

Look through DCUM for some threads about the enormous waste in MCPS.

Part of the issue is that MCPS is just too big and doesn’t have any oversight.

Yeah. But how much would hiring a lot of people and doing lots of audits cost?

How much do MCPS meetings that are never followed up on cost?

Privates are smaller and therefore more flexible to meet the needs of students.

MCPS is huge and doesn’t give a damn if children are educated. Leaders are constantly vying for that next promotion or lucrative contract hire after they leave MCPS. Even MCPS leadership doesn’t think that the schools are good enough for their children who are enrolled in private schools.

MCPS is fine. I think the real problem is bad parents. Their children would fail pretty much anywhere.

You definitely work for the schools. I swear I got this line from DC’s teacher back in first grade after dyslexia diagnosis (although county would not and still won’t use that word).

What did you do to fix it? Anyone with a child who needs help, knows not to rely on MCPS

Oh I fixed it…left, thank you very much teacher! Now, what do YOU do for these children for your salary as a public servant for the hours you have them? I’ll take my answer off the air. Don’t have a lifetime to wait…

I don't do anything for your kids as I am not their parent, MCPS employee, babysitter or anything else. I am a parent tired of complainers. I have a child who had some SN and we dealt with it. If you wait for MCPS to deal with it, you will be waiting a long time.. These kids are YOUR kids. Stop trying to dump them off on someone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP you are citing multiple posters and trying to lump different arguments into one.

Many special populations - special needs students being one - fell disproportionately behind than other students according to MCPS data presented to the Board of Ed. MCPS was quick to remove the supports and services that these students legally need for accessibility. MCPS has been slow to provide services so special needs students can catch up. This equates to a two year decline for students with special needs. Enough is enough. We are tired of our students being treated as an afterthought by MCPS, and as one PP has expressed, not deserving of educational benefit. That’s taking a whole student group that gained rights under the ADA, Section 504, and the IDEA back to pre-Civil Rights level of discrimination.

Parents are tired with fighting with MCPS for basic services listed on IEPs that aren’t being provided. School choice would provide us a financial mechanism to be able to leave MCPS to a school that wants to educate them.

My child has an IEP. I haven't seen their issues not being addressed. True, their issues aren't very complicated compared to.some.

But you are speaking for your own family. Not for all of us. Like you, I assume, I'm also on the various SN list serves and Facebook groups. There's no groundswell of parents demanding school vouchers. And you don't seem to be complaining there about it.

At this point I think at least half a dozen different posters have explained to you why school choice isn't going to give your child a magic placement that will "fix" them. That horrible troll post about damaged kids had one element of truth in what they said that perhaps you need to hear:

Our kids aren't "normal," whatever that even means. It's ablelist for you to assume our kids can meet your arbitrary goals and that only some vast Moco conspiracy is what's holding them back. Maybe what's holding your child back is his father's massive sense of entitlement and privilege.

Except what MCPS is doing (not providing more than de minimus) is against federal law. Gosh, some of you are so dim! Just because your kids can memorize things quickly doesn’t mean our kids (who may have working memory issues) aren’t bright and are being ignored. (As an example).

MCPS is a despicable organization - but if your kid is in Blair Magnet - you wouldn’t even realize it. Or you work for the schools - Moco is America’s Venezuela… everyone works for the schools or the county.

Charters are one of the few ways to give a monopoly a signal - you are sub-optimal. With so many county workers as voters it’s challenging to change the status quo.

Calling people “dim” while you rant about “monopolies” in a discussion of special needs education is probably not going to win you much support.
Raving using terms from an Econ cliff notes guide that you don’t really understand isn’t going to win you much support either.
I wondered if you were Chris Whittle trying to get support for his next scam, but, reportedly, he usually starts with a charm offensive and presentations that at least sound good, so: nah.

Actually seeing a lot of support on here. Shocking actually given the People’s Republic nature of the place. Look once you’ve been through the MCPS IEP meat grinder you are changed. If you have a neurotypical kid I get it - cram school and move on to UMD.

Support from your sock puppets? Doesn't count. Econ cliff notes. Hee. Good way to describe it.

Check the other boards, people. There are similar discussions, and similar posters disparaging the public school system in every single county thread.

[Anonymous]

Vouchers usually leads to skimming the best students from public school. So the well behaved kid who gets good grades and will get glowing recommendations from teachers have traditionally been the group that get into private school with vouchers. I see a lot of parents of special needs kids are saying they want vouchers so they can move their kids to private but unfortunately private schools don’t overwhelmingly select voucher students from this group.

[Anonymous]

I wonder how big of an exodus we would see from the DCC form all those parents who say they love those schools if the had a life line out they could honestly afford? I bet all that Blair love would fly out the window if they could afford better or get out. It always comes off as sour grapes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP you are citing multiple posters and trying to lump different arguments into one.

Many special populations - special needs students being one - fell disproportionately behind than other students according to MCPS data presented to the Board of Ed. MCPS was quick to remove the supports and services that these students legally need for accessibility. MCPS has been slow to provide services so special needs students can catch up. This equates to a two year decline for students with special needs. Enough is enough. We are tired of our students being treated as an afterthought by MCPS, and as one PP has expressed, not deserving of educational benefit. That’s taking a whole student group that gained rights under the ADA, Section 504, and the IDEA back to pre-Civil Rights level of discrimination.

Parents are tired with fighting with MCPS for basic services listed on IEPs that aren’t being provided. School choice would provide us a financial mechanism to be able to leave MCPS to a school that wants to educate them.

My child has an IEP. I haven't seen their issues not being addressed. True, their issues aren't very complicated compared to.some.

But you are speaking for your own family. Not for all of us. Like you, I assume, I'm also on the various SN list serves and Facebook groups. There's no groundswell of parents demanding school vouchers. And you don't seem to be complaining there about it.

At this point I think at least half a dozen different posters have explained to you why school choice isn't going to give your child a magic placement that will "fix" them. That horrible troll post about damaged kids had one element of truth in what they said that perhaps you need to hear:

Our kids aren't "normal," whatever that even means. It's ablelist for you to assume our kids can meet your arbitrary goals and that only some vast Moco conspiracy is what's holding them back. Maybe what's holding your child back is his father's massive sense of entitlement and privilege.

Except what MCPS is doing (not providing more than de minimus) is against federal law. Gosh, some of you are so dim! Just because your kids can memorize things quickly doesn’t mean our kids (who may have working memory issues) aren’t bright and are being ignored. (As an example).

MCPS is a despicable organization - but if your kid is in Blair Magnet - you wouldn’t even realize it. Or you work for the schools - Moco is America’s Venezuela… everyone works for the schools or the county.

Charters are one of the few ways to give a monopoly a signal - you are sub-optimal. With so many county workers as voters it’s challenging to change the status quo.

+1 million

This is exactly ir.

+1000 - There are many reasons why parents are unhappy. How students with disabilities are discriminated against is one reason parents want alternative options.

If you are happy with MCPS (particularly if MCPS is paying for your child’s private education) then count your children blessed. Some disabilities are more appropriately addressed by MCPS than others. Some schools do a better job than others. It doesn’t mean the voice of complaints aren’t valid. The State complaint losses are piling up. The OCR complaints are piling up. Due Process is a longer venue and the last result, so they will begin piling up as well.

Even though some PPs have clear implicit bias about educating students with disabilities, all students deserve FAPE - a Free Appropriate Public Education.

I don’t think most are disagreeing with you that students with disabilities deserve FAPE. What they are arguing in 1) Appropriate needs to be defined with respective to each disability and 2)the current MCPS average cost to educate a student of 16K (which includes the additional dollars being spent on a smaller portion of the population) is not going to pay for private school tuition most anywhere in the DMV, and definitely not somewhere that will address many of the student disabilities that MCPS is tasked with addressed. ALSO, and this is very key, no private school is required to admit your child (voucher or no voucher) nor lower their cost of tuition, which means for many, that vouchers wouldn’t actually give them meaningful choice.

Since we are talking pie in the sky here, recognize that the $16k average you mention is high due to additional supports needed for ESOL, and SpEd. Some of those kids can easily cost $50k a year once all staff and testing is accounted for. It pulls up the average. I would expect that a more typical cost to educate a typical child is about $10k or so.