FCPS comprehensive boundary review

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this compare with the even larger growth plans still in the works for Tysons?

Does Langley just wash its hands of all of this, or is it just saying send some of Tysons there but leave Forestville alone for now?

I for one am just interested in them getting the data right, Tyson’s included, so they don’t break the system even more with short-sighted changes.

Seems pretty non-controversial, unless you are looking to screw over certain neighbors with an equity agenda.

+1 there’s no need to move Forestville or anything else in western Great Falls/Herndon out of Langley right now. However if more development comes to Tysons and overcrowds McLean and Marshall, leading to spillover into Langley (MHS and LHS are pretty physically close to each other), some tough choices may have to be made. But if they really are looking at the borders every 5 years, there is plenty of time to make a decision at that time.

But isn’t there more development slated for the Herndon area as well? This is where the Mythical Western High SchoolTM could certainly come in handy. I realize there’s a lot of capacity in other areas of the county, but capacity at Lewis and Mount Vernon doesn’t help McLean.

Back when FCPS was more respected, they added capacity in the areas that needed it and closed schools in areas where there was surplus capacity. That doesn’t seem to be the current approach.

[Anonymous]

And yes offer the unusual languages online to cut down on transfers out even further.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One way to limit transfers out/in is to have each HS offer the same set of languages and AP classes regardless of how many students sign up for each. It would make offerings equal in each HS. The only differences would be how many classes of each are offered.

It’s also been proposed that some languages be offered on-line.

Currently some schools have to spend large amounts on their budgets on ESOL and others spend money on foreign languages not offered at other schools. If you’re a non-ESOL kid at the former you simply don’t have access to the same opportunities. You might be able to pupil place but that means arranging your own transportation, which isn’t feasible for a lot of families.

online offerings are not equivalent to in person. I think the answer is large schools where there are enough students to justify offerings at multiple levels. West Potomac and Herndon have high farms percentages and manage to have robust course catalogs because they are massive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One way to limit transfers out/in is to have each HS offer the same set of languages and AP classes regardless of how many students sign up for each. It would make offerings equal in each HS. The only differences would be how many classes of each are offered.

This is such an obvious idea but there is SUCH resistance to it on the part of FCPS and the school board. They should dump IB at most schools and have the same core AP classes everywhere. Maybe the bigger schools can offer the more unusual AP’s, and can accept some transfers from kids who can’t be served at their base school, but the majority of students will be served just fine with the top 10: English (Language or literature), US history, World history, psychology, US government, Calc AB, CS A, biology, chemistry, physics. Throw in Spanish and French for languages too. The number of kids pursuing AP Chinese or studio art or whatever and needing a transfer should be pretty small if they can take most AP’s at their own school.

If you aren't offering BC and Physics C, then the AP offerings aren't equivalent. People will still try to avoid the schools that direct their resources to poor and ELL students rather than to offerings directed at middle class english speakers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One way to limit transfers out/in is to have each HS offer the same set of languages and AP classes regardless of how many students sign up for each. It would make offerings equal in each HS. The only differences would be how many classes of each are offered.

It’s also been proposed that some languages be offered on-line.

Currently some schools have to spend large amounts on their budgets on ESOL and others spend money on foreign languages not offered at other schools. If you’re a non-ESOL kid at the former you simply don’t have access to the same opportunities. You might be able to pupil place but that means arranging your own transportation, which isn’t feasible for a lot of families.

online offerings are not equivalent to in person. I think the answer is large schools where there are enough students to justify offerings at multiple levels. West Potomac and Herndon have high farms percentages and manage to have robust course catalogs because they are massive.

Herndon isn’t massive. It has a below-average enrollment for an FCPS high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One way to limit transfers out/in is to have each HS offer the same set of languages and AP classes regardless of how many students sign up for each. It would make offerings equal in each HS. The only differences would be how many classes of each are offered.

It’s also been proposed that some languages be offered on-line.

Currently some schools have to spend large amounts on their budgets on ESOL and others spend money on foreign languages not offered at other schools. If you’re a non-ESOL kid at the former you simply don’t have access to the same opportunities. You might be able to pupil place but that means arranging your own transportation, which isn’t feasible for a lot of families.

online offerings are not equivalent to in person. I think the answer is large schools where there are enough students to justify offerings at multiple levels. West Potomac and Herndon have high farms percentages and manage to have robust course catalogs because they are massive.

Herndon isn’t massive. It has a below-average enrollment for an FCPS high school.

It is compared to Lewis and Mt Vernon and it has a couple of hundred students on Annandale

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One way to limit transfers out/in is to have each HS offer the same set of languages and AP classes regardless of how many students sign up for each. It would make offerings equal in each HS. The only differences would be how many classes of each are offered.

It’s also been proposed that some languages be offered on-line.

Currently some schools have to spend large amounts on their budgets on ESOL and others spend money on foreign languages not offered at other schools. If you’re a non-ESOL kid at the former you simply don’t have access to the same opportunities. You might be able to pupil place but that means arranging your own transportation, which isn’t feasible for a lot of families.

online offerings are not equivalent to in person. I think the answer is large schools where there are enough students to justify offerings at multiple levels. West Potomac and Herndon have high farms percentages and manage to have robust course catalogs because they are massive.

Herndon isn’t massive. It has a below-average enrollment for an FCPS high school.

It is compared to Lewis and Mt Vernon and it has a couple of hundred students on Annandale

Herndon has about 80 more kids than Annandale, not a “couple of hundred” more. Both have below-average enrollments now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One way to limit transfers out/in is to have each HS offer the same set of languages and AP classes regardless of how many students sign up for each. It would make offerings equal in each HS. The only differences would be how many classes of each are offered.

It’s also been proposed that some languages be offered on-line.

Currently some schools have to spend large amounts on their budgets on ESOL and others spend money on foreign languages not offered at other schools. If you’re a non-ESOL kid at the former you simply don’t have access to the same opportunities. You might be able to pupil place but that means arranging your own transportation, which isn’t feasible for a lot of families.

online offerings are not equivalent to in person. I think the answer is large schools where there are enough students to justify offerings at multiple levels. West Potomac and Herndon have high farms percentages and manage to have robust course catalogs because they are massive.

Herndon isn’t massive. It has a below-average enrollment for an FCPS high school.

But Langley, Madison, and Marshall have an even lower enrollment. Herndon looks under enrolled because they gave it a massive expansion to make up for the lack of a Western High School.

[Anonymous]

Maybe the problem for “below average enrollment” isn’t that a school between 2000-2250 is below average. Maybe the problem is that there are so many schools with 2500-3000 students that skew the average.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And yes offer the unusual languages online to cut down on transfers out even further.

Online is not as effective nor anywhere near an equivalent to an in person class with classmates and live teachers.

Language involves not just speech and hearing but body language and nuances that are unavailable online.

Keep the obscure languages throughout the county.

Take advantage of Lewis's low enrollment to renovate and fix its multiple building and facility issues that make the campus sub par to the other high schools, while taking a deep dive into what is failing and what can be fixed academically.

Then, when Lewis is in a similar physical condition to the rest of the FCPS, revisit if there is a need for rezoning during the 2031 cycle.

After all, rezoning every 5 years gives the school board plenty of time to work on the issues that make transferring to Lewis unpalatable to many of its neighbors, not just its WSHS neighbors but its South County, Lake Braddock, Hayfield and even its Edison neighbors.

You can have a strong school in a cramped, sub par, unrenovated building with rutted sports fields, and people will happily send their kids there if the academics are good.

You can have a middling school in a beautiful, newly renovated building, and people will send their kids there without a fuss.

You can have an exceptional school in a beautiful facility, and people will fight tooth and nail to keep their kids there.

What you can't have is a poorly performing school in a run down, neglected building at a terrible location with aging, low quality sports fields that is by far the most neglected physical campus in the entire county. People will fight tooth and nail to keep their kids out of there.

If fcps rezones kids into the failing school with the neglected campus, they won't send their kids there. They will pull them for private school or find a transfer loophole and we will end up in the same place for Lewis.

But if FCPS gives Lewis a beautiful renovation so it at least looks like the other high schools, they will have better chance of turning that school around and making it less of a pariah.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One way to limit transfers out/in is to have each HS offer the same set of languages and AP classes regardless of how many students sign up for each. It would make offerings equal in each HS. The only differences would be how many classes of each are offered.

It’s also been proposed that some languages be offered on-line.

Currently some schools have to spend large amounts on their budgets on ESOL and others spend money on foreign languages not offered at other schools. If you’re a non-ESOL kid at the former you simply don’t have access to the same opportunities. You might be able to pupil place but that means arranging your own transportation, which isn’t feasible for a lot of families.

online offerings are not equivalent to in person. I think the answer is large schools where there are enough students to justify offerings at multiple levels. West Potomac and Herndon have high farms percentages and manage to have robust course catalogs because they are massive.

Herndon isn’t massive. It has a below-average enrollment for an FCPS high school.

But Langley, Madison, and Marshall have an even lower enrollment. Herndon looks under enrolled because they gave it a massive expansion to make up for the lack of a Western High School.

Those are two different issues. Herndon has a below-average enrollment for an FCPS high school. And it also has a lot of excess capacity now, which they may take advantage of in connection with the ongoing boundary study.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One way to limit transfers out/in is to have each HS offer the same set of languages and AP classes regardless of how many students sign up for each. It would make offerings equal in each HS. The only differences would be how many classes of each are offered.

It’s also been proposed that some languages be offered on-line.

Currently some schools have to spend large amounts on their budgets on ESOL and others spend money on foreign languages not offered at other schools. If you’re a non-ESOL kid at the former you simply don’t have access to the same opportunities. You might be able to pupil place but that means arranging your own transportation, which isn’t feasible for a lot of families.

online offerings are not equivalent to in person. I think the answer is large schools where there are enough students to justify offerings at multiple levels. West Potomac and Herndon have high farms percentages and manage to have robust course catalogs because they are massive.

Herndon isn’t massive. It has a below-average enrollment for an FCPS high school.

But Langley, Madison, and Marshall have an even lower enrollment. Herndon looks under enrolled because they gave it a massive expansion to make up for the lack of a Western High School.

Those are two different issues. Herndon has a below-average enrollment for an FCPS high school. And it also has a lot of excess capacity now, which they may take advantage of in connection with the ongoing boundary study.

Only if they split feeder cooper. HMS doesn’t have capacity, now or in the future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yes offer the unusual languages online to cut down on transfers out even further.

Online is not as effective nor anywhere near an equivalent to an in person class with classmates and live teachers.

Language involves not just speech and hearing but body language and nuances that are unavailable online.

Keep the obscure languages throughout the county.

Take advantage of Lewis's low enrollment to renovate and fix its multiple building and facility issues that make the campus sub par to the other high schools, while taking a deep dive into what is failing and what can be fixed academically.

Then, when Lewis is in a similar physical condition to the rest of the FCPS, revisit if there is a need for rezoning during the 2031 cycle.

After all, rezoning every 5 years gives the school board plenty of time to work on the issues that make transferring to Lewis unpalatable to many of its neighbors, not just its WSHS neighbors but its South County, Lake Braddock, Hayfield and even its Edison neighbors.

You can have a strong school in a cramped, sub par, unrenovated building with rutted sports fields, and people will happily send their kids there if the academics are good.

You can have a middling school in a beautiful, newly renovated building, and people will send their kids there without a fuss.

You can have an exceptional school in a beautiful facility, and people will fight tooth and nail to keep their kids there.

What you can't have is a poorly performing school in a run down, neglected building at a terrible location with aging, low quality sports fields that is by far the most neglected physical campus in the entire county. People will fight tooth and nail to keep their kids out of there.

If fcps rezones kids into the failing school with the neglected campus, they won't send their kids there. They will pull them for private school or find a transfer loophole and we will end up in the same place for Lewis.

But if FCPS gives Lewis a beautiful renovation so it at least looks like the other high schools, they will have better chance of turning that school around and making it less of a pariah.

Online classes can have classmates and a live teacher. We have technology why not be creative wth it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yes offer the unusual languages online to cut down on transfers out even further.

Online is not as effective nor anywhere near an equivalent to an in person class with classmates and live teachers.

Language involves not just speech and hearing but body language and nuances that are unavailable online.

Keep the obscure languages throughout the county.

Take advantage of Lewis's low enrollment to renovate and fix its multiple building and facility issues that make the campus sub par to the other high schools, while taking a deep dive into what is failing and what can be fixed academically.

Then, when Lewis is in a similar physical condition to the rest of the FCPS, revisit if there is a need for rezoning during the 2031 cycle.

After all, rezoning every 5 years gives the school board plenty of time to work on the issues that make transferring to Lewis unpalatable to many of its neighbors, not just its WSHS neighbors but its South County, Lake Braddock, Hayfield and even its Edison neighbors.

You can have a strong school in a cramped, sub par, unrenovated building with rutted sports fields, and people will happily send their kids there if the academics are good.

You can have a middling school in a beautiful, newly renovated building, and people will send their kids there without a fuss.

You can have an exceptional school in a beautiful facility, and people will fight tooth and nail to keep their kids there.

What you can't have is a poorly performing school in a run down, neglected building at a terrible location with aging, low quality sports fields that is by far the most neglected physical campus in the entire county. People will fight tooth and nail to keep their kids out of there.

If fcps rezones kids into the failing school with the neglected campus, they won't send their kids there. They will pull them for private school or find a transfer loophole and we will end up in the same place for Lewis.

But if FCPS gives Lewis a beautiful renovation so it at least looks like the other high schools, they will have better chance of turning that school around and making it less of a pariah.

Online classes can have classmates and a live teacher. We have technology why not be creative wth it?

Many of the languages start in elementary school. It's absolutely not the same. Yes, you can do it and it be effective but it's much harder to do immersion and a LOT harder having younger kids (like K or 1st grade where some of the languages start..) deal with technology, a new language, and immersion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yes offer the unusual languages online to cut down on transfers out even further.

Online is not as effective nor anywhere near an equivalent to an in person class with classmates and live teachers.

Language involves not just speech and hearing but body language and nuances that are unavailable online.

Keep the obscure languages throughout the county.

Take advantage of Lewis's low enrollment to renovate and fix its multiple building and facility issues that make the campus sub par to the other high schools, while taking a deep dive into what is failing and what can be fixed academically.

Then, when Lewis is in a similar physical condition to the rest of the FCPS, revisit if there is a need for rezoning during the 2031 cycle.

After all, rezoning every 5 years gives the school board plenty of time to work on the issues that make transferring to Lewis unpalatable to many of its neighbors, not just its WSHS neighbors but its South County, Lake Braddock, Hayfield and even its Edison neighbors.

You can have a strong school in a cramped, sub par, unrenovated building with rutted sports fields, and people will happily send their kids there if the academics are good.

You can have a middling school in a beautiful, newly renovated building, and people will send their kids there without a fuss.

You can have an exceptional school in a beautiful facility, and people will fight tooth and nail to keep their kids there.

What you can't have is a poorly performing school in a run down, neglected building at a terrible location with aging, low quality sports fields that is by far the most neglected physical campus in the entire county. People will fight tooth and nail to keep their kids out of there.

If fcps rezones kids into the failing school with the neglected campus, they won't send their kids there. They will pull them for private school or find a transfer loophole and we will end up in the same place for Lewis.

But if FCPS gives Lewis a beautiful renovation so it at least looks like the other high schools, they will have better chance of turning that school around and making it less of a pariah.

Annandale and McLean are older than Lewis, and both currently rely on modulars, so they deserve to be renovated before Lewis. And none of these schools are likely to get renovated before 2031. Maybe they could start on Annandale, the oldest of the three, but they’ll finish Centreville first unless they completely revamp the CIP.

They could come out with a new renovation queue soon to at least give people comfort that renovations are on the horizon, but that’s about it. If that’s not good enough, they should just close Lewis.