DA vs ECNL vs everything else

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody cares what the goal of the ECNL or DA is. Kids in both leagues want the same thing. College. That is the end goal.

Maybe on the girls side...

On the boys side, some of them just want to play good socce and some want to play professionally.


As for the DA, it wouldn't be around if not for improving the development pathways for the national team.

This is also true for the girls. The DA wouldn't exist if U.S. Soccer wasn't trying to fix what they thought was broken in how quickly the rest of the world has caught up with team USA since we got the Title 9 head start. In a year or two, there will not be many if any girls called in to you youth national team camps from any metro area where there is a decent DA. Or if one blossoms and impresses, watch how fast they end up on a DA once they're discovered.

For boys and girls youth and the DA, it's about the training to game ratio and learning to train the skills and tactical setups that they want for national teams. Girls show up at these camps and spend the entire first camp (which could be their last) just getting used to the exercises and intensity and learning about proper nutrition and probably having a coach review video with them and give them a Player Development Plan for the first times in their lives. That sets back the program by years. The youth national teams want players called in that are already doing all the right things and can step right in and actually make progress in their first camp. There aren't a lot of camps, so if they show up as a 15 year old and are like lost puppies, they may not get another chance at all, but it will be at least 17s before they have enough camps to be ready to step into a meaningful game.

The theory is U.S. Soccer can better control the DAs. Lots of bad coaches still slip through, but that's an issue with coaching education that needs fixed too. Parents all see the team and positioning their kiddos in the best place possible to get to college. That's not wrong for them. But when parents compare teams and clubs without the perspective of what the professionals at U.S. Soccer are trying to change with the overall structure, it's not an apples to apples discussion.

There is and was absolutely nothing wrong overall with ECNL from a parent's or college coach's perspective. But from team USA, the bus was coming down the hill fast with no breaks. The women were LUCKY to win the 2015 World Cup. They almost didn't qualify, and almost got knocked out in the group stage. It was a couple of injuries that forced a tactical change in the knock out rounds, and arguably more experience on synthetic turf and more fitness, that aligned the stars. If U.S. Soccer did nothing new and the women got knocked out early or didn't qualify in 2019, the world would fly past us completely. Ironically, the men not qualifying for 2018 is a good example of the chaos that comes when complacency gets kicked in the groin, dragged through a briar patch and then soaked in lemon juice.

The very valid argument is that U.S. Soccer could have just worked more with ECNL. But they just don't do that. They're a federation. They think they're always right as a whole, even when some individuals have good ideas and are willing to listen a little. They wanted more control over coaching quality and to require licensing. And they wanted to cut High School because it absolutely sets players back in time if not permanently. ECNL would never do that so they assumed.

And, they needed to be seen as treating boys and girls equal from top to bottom following the nasty news about the men's team making so much more than the women's team. There are probably already lawsuits we don't know about, so they had to start covering their bases.

It is what is is now. For the current teen years, it will be a situation with a lot of choice and opportunity with no real downside either way. For the 12 and unders, they will never know a world where the DA wasn't the clear top choice and destination for talent at least in markets where there is a DA at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody cares what the goal of the ECNL or DA is. Kids in both leagues want the same thing. College. That is the end goal.

Maybe on the girls side...

On the boys side, some of them just want to play good socce and some want to play professionally.


As for the DA, it wouldn't be around if not for improving the development pathways for the national team.

Actually, even on the girls' side, there are girls who want to play professionally. I guess the really right answer is we shouldn't stereotype either girls or boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody cares what the goal of the ECNL or DA is. Kids in both leagues want the same thing. College. That is the end goal.

Maybe on the girls side...

On the boys side, some of them just want to play good socce and some want to play professionally.


As for the DA, it wouldn't be around if not for improving the development pathways for the national team.

This is also true for the girls. The DA wouldn't exist if U.S. Soccer wasn't trying to fix what they thought was broken in how quickly the rest of the world has caught up with team USA since we got the Title 9 head start. In a year or two, there will not be many if any girls called in to you youth national team camps from any metro area where there is a decent DA. Or if one blossoms and impresses, watch how fast they end up on a DA once they're discovered.

For boys and girls youth and the DA, it's about the training to game ratio and learning to train the skills and tactical setups that they want for national teams. Girls show up at these camps and spend the entire first camp (which could be their last) just getting used to the exercises and intensity and learning about proper nutrition and probably having a coach review video with them and give them a Player Development Plan for the first times in their lives. That sets back the program by years. The youth national teams want players called in that are already doing all the right things and can step right in and actually make progress in their first camp. There aren't a lot of camps, so if they show up as a 15 year old and are like lost puppies, they may not get another chance at all, but it will be at least 17s before they have enough camps to be ready to step into a meaningful game.

The theory is U.S. Soccer can better control the DAs. Lots of bad coaches still slip through, but that's an issue with coaching education that needs fixed too. Parents all see the team and positioning their kiddos in the best place possible to get to college. That's not wrong for them. But when parents compare teams and clubs without the perspective of what the professionals at U.S. Soccer are trying to change with the overall structure, it's not an apples to apples discussion.

There is and was absolutely nothing wrong overall with ECNL from a parent's or college coach's perspective. But from team USA, the bus was coming down the hill fast with no breaks. The women were LUCKY to win the 2015 World Cup. They almost didn't qualify, and almost got knocked out in the group stage. It was a couple of injuries that forced a tactical change in the knock out rounds, and arguably more experience on synthetic turf and more fitness, that aligned the stars. If U.S. Soccer did nothing new and the women got knocked out early or didn't qualify in 2019, the world would fly past us completely. Ironically, the men not qualifying for 2018 is a good example of the chaos that comes when complacency gets kicked in the groin, dragged through a briar patch and then soaked in lemon juice.

The very valid argument is that U.S. Soccer could have just worked more with ECNL. But they just don't do that. They're a federation. They think they're always right as a whole, even when some individuals have good ideas and are willing to listen a little. They wanted more control over coaching quality and to require licensing. And they wanted to cut High School because it absolutely sets players back in time if not permanently. ECNL would never do that so they assumed.

And, they needed to be seen as treating boys and girls equal from top to bottom following the nasty news about the men's team making so much more than the women's team. There are probably already lawsuits we don't know about, so they had to start covering their bases.

It is what is is now. For the current teen years, it will be a situation with a lot of choice and opportunity with no real downside either way. For the 12 and unders, they will never know a world where the DA wasn't the clear top choice and destination for talent at least in markets where there is a DA at all.

A lot of valid points.

Also, any time there is a change in youth soccer (perhaps we could even say most major changes affecting our children), people get nervous and upset. Status quo also means we know the landscape and how to navigate it. That's not to say that people don't have some valid concerns, including the very real problem during transition of neither environment being fully effective until the dust settles. When the BDA started, it wasn't near the league it is today. Neither was the ECNL. That said, the GDA has brought some neat improvements with it (such as a full year program instead of high school ball) that can only benefit the girls who choose to participate.

Best wishes to all.

[Anonymous]

Nothing was done to address the crushing pay to play nonsense that the federation and many other soccer experts have decried as derailing US youth soccer (and was one of the major criticisms of the ECNL ironically). If all the changes detailed above were the solution to the problem, the high travel, high expense silliness of far flung games would have been eliminated as unnecessary, exclusionary, wasteful and not on mission. Yet there it is in all its glory like the ECNl on steroids.

This whole thing is a power struggle with little to do with improving access to good soccer training for more young players. I dont care which of these leagues prevails but having both stinks. The gda sounded exciting but has been a disappointment and is so so similar to what was already in existence.

[Anonymous]

Men is this country don't care about soccer. They don't even watch it. Not too long ago, you were considered weak for playing it. Its true. It has gained popularity but not enough to propel any real change.

However, women soccer is a big deal in this country. Probabley the #1 sport. Women's soccer in not profitable outside the 0000.5 percent with endorsement. So, womens college soccer is king.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody cares what the goal of the ECNL or DA is. Kids in both leagues want the same thing. College. That is the end goal.

Maybe on the girls side...

On the boys side, some of them just want to play good socce and some want to play professionally.


As for the DA, it wouldn't be around if not for improving the development pathways for the national team.

This is also true for the girls. The DA wouldn't exist if U.S. Soccer wasn't trying to fix what they thought was broken in how quickly the rest of the world has caught up with team USA since we got the Title 9 head start. In a year or two, there will not be many if any girls called in to you youth national team camps from any metro area where there is a decent DA. Or if one blossoms and impresses, watch how fast they end up on a DA once they're discovered.

For boys and girls youth and the DA, it's about the training to game ratio and learning to train the skills and tactical setups that they want for national teams. Girls show up at these camps and spend the entire first camp (which could be their last) just getting used to the exercises and intensity and learning about proper nutrition and probably having a coach review video with them and give them a Player Development Plan for the first times in their lives. That sets back the program by years. The youth national teams want players called in that are already doing all the right things and can step right in and actually make progress in their first camp. There aren't a lot of camps, so if they show up as a 15 year old and are like lost puppies, they may not get another chance at all, but it will be at least 17s before they have enough camps to be ready to step into a meaningful game.

The theory is U.S. Soccer can better control the DAs. Lots of bad coaches still slip through, but that's an issue with coaching education that needs fixed too. Parents all see the team and positioning their kiddos in the best place possible to get to college. That's not wrong for them. But when parents compare teams and clubs without the perspective of what the professionals at U.S. Soccer are trying to change with the overall structure, it's not an apples to apples discussion.

There is and was absolutely nothing wrong overall with ECNL from a parent's or college coach's perspective. But from team USA, the bus was coming down the hill fast with no breaks. The women were LUCKY to win the 2015 World Cup. They almost didn't qualify, and almost got knocked out in the group stage. It was a couple of injuries that forced a tactical change in the knock out rounds, and arguably more experience on synthetic turf and more fitness, that aligned the stars. If U.S. Soccer did nothing new and the women got knocked out early or didn't qualify in 2019, the world would fly past us completely. Ironically, the men not qualifying for 2018 is a good example of the chaos that comes when complacency gets kicked in the groin, dragged through a briar patch and then soaked in lemon juice.

The very valid argument is that U.S. Soccer could have just worked more with ECNL. But they just don't do that. They're a federation. They think they're always right as a whole, even when some individuals have good ideas and are willing to listen a little. They wanted more control over coaching quality and to require licensing. And they wanted to cut High School because it absolutely sets players back in time if not permanently. ECNL would never do that so they assumed.

And, they needed to be seen as treating boys and girls equal from top to bottom following the nasty news about the men's team making so much more than the women's team. There are probably already lawsuits we don't know about, so they had to start covering their bases.

It is what is is now. For the current teen years, it will be a situation with a lot of choice and opportunity with no real downside either way. For the 12 and unders, they will never know a world where the DA wasn't the clear top choice and destination for talent at least in markets where there is a DA at all.

Spot on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody cares what the goal of the ECNL or DA is. Kids in both leagues want the same thing. College. That is the end goal.

Maybe on the girls side...

On the boys side, some of them just want to play good socce and some want to play professionally.


As for the DA, it wouldn't be around if not for improving the development pathways for the national team.

Actually, even on the girls' side, there are girls who want to play professionally. I guess the really right answer is we shouldn't stereotype either girls or boys.

You are correct, there are girls who seek to play professionally and I should have noted that.

The difference is that at this time, the path to the professional game for women is still 99% through four years of college whereas for men, and especially our top men, college is increasingly seen as a detriment to their development.

Most of this is just the economic differences between men's and women's soccer.

[Anonymous]

Interesting situation for the Northwest Conference. There are 2 US Soccer sanctioned leagues being formed.

1. DA2
2. DP League

I'm still learning about this all myself, so this is just what I have gathered.

Summary understanding
1. DA2 is designed to be a feeder league for DA clubs for kids that are good, but not as strong as the DA kids. They can play high school soccer and in US Youth Soccer events, tournaments, etc. Currently, it has 9 clubs participating.
2. DP League (http://dpleague.org/): I'm not sure, but this may be the final name for DA2. I'd heard about DA2 a month or so ago, and I'm seeing the 2 used interchangeably.

It's definitely more than the EDP Spirit is doing or the US Club Soccer Pre-academy league for the DA boys, because both of those are just U16, and this league is for all the DA age groups.

Right now, it's just a NW Conference thing, but Texas may be thinking of it as well. It seems SoCal Blues is indeed dropping the ECNL, as is San Diego Surf. They will move their ECNL teams to this league. (or that is my understanding).

[Anonymous]

^^^^ So I said 2 leagues, but again, they may be one and the same, and just 2 different names as the idea developed.

[Anonymous]

Correction: it is a SW conference pilot league and it includes 13 clubs.

[Anonymous]

First, this is not US Soccer Federation direct sanction like the DA. Per the website, the league is run through Cal South which is a state association of USYSA, which is one of the three national youth soccer organizations which are members of US Soccer.

Second, several of the leagues run by EDP have included secondary DA teams over the years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First, this is not US Soccer Federation direct sanction like the DA. Per the website, the league is run through Cal South which is a state association of USYSA, which is one of the three national youth soccer organizations which are members of US Soccer.

Second, several of the leagues run by EDP have included secondary DA teams over the years.

So, it is sanctioned by USSF, but it is not run by USSF. I think we are actually saying the same thing.

To your second point, that is true, as has the US Club Soccer Pre-Academy league. What I think is different is that:
1. It's not just U16
2. As I understand it, there are not outside clubs. These are all DA clubs that want a place to put their feeder teams in where they compete with each other. US Club Soccer and EDP have several non-DA clubs and while there are feeder teams in them, they are not founded for that purpose.

This is my understanding, but of course, I'm still learning as this is new.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nothing was done to address the crushing pay to play nonsense that the federation and many other soccer experts have decried as derailing US youth soccer (and was one of the major criticisms of the ECNL ironically). If all the changes detailed above were the solution to the problem, the high travel, high expense silliness of far flung games would have been eliminated as unnecessary, exclusionary, wasteful and not on mission. Yet there it is in all its glory like the ECNl on steroids.

This whole thing is a power struggle with little to do with improving access to good soccer training for more young players. I dont care which of these leagues prevails but having both stinks. The gda sounded exciting but has been a disappointment and is so so similar to what was already in existence.

I’m not sure where women’s soccer gets the money to do anything other than pay to play. Look at the boston breakers folding. Until there is a financially sustainable fan base paying for gear and to see games and such, not sure where the money would come from. None of these are altruistic organizations, not the federation, the clubs, or the nwsl teams. Everyone working there needs to get paid.

[Anonymous]

3 more clubs leave the ECNL

As a follow up to the other clubs I mentioned that are leaving the ECNL from CA to form the DPL, more clubs are leaving the ECNL to go "all in" to borrow a phrase for the GDA. The GDA was already their A team. They will move all their B teams to a new league being formed, called the FDL. This league sounds like a Texas version of the DPL I already posted about, but they don't have a website up, so I'm not sure if they will include non-DA clubs or how that will work. Clubs included are:

* Dallas Texans (dual club that will drop its ECNL)
* FC Dallas (another dual club that will drop its ECNL)
* Solar (dual club that will drop its ECNL)
* Lonestar (that dropped its ECNL last year)
* Houston Dash

Here are some online press releases about it:
*https://www.dallastexans.com/news_article/show/912843?referrer_id=842305
*https://lonestar-sc.com/news/post/us-youth-soccer-announces-frontier-development-league-fdl-within-the-usys-national-league-frontier-conference-for-girls
I'm not sure how many that makes for the list that was previously posted.

[Anonymous]

^^^^Another league?