Just finished The Queen's gambit on Netflix

[Anonymous]

I don’t buy the KGB thing at all. Would someone who’s read the book chime in on this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t buy the KGB thing at all. Would someone who’s read the book chime in on this?

Cleo didn't exist in the book.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cleo's KGB connection is not directly stated, but is hinted at throughout the episode. I think someone even mentioned a coy smile between Cleo and Bergov's wife at one point.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/comments/jkomwb/the_queens_gambit_2020_beth_harmon_was_a_victim/

Why would Bagrov’s wife know about Cleo’s KGB connection?

Cleo was also involved in Benny's loss to Bergov.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cleo's KGB connection is not directly stated, but is hinted at throughout the episode. I think someone even mentioned a coy smile between Cleo and Bergov's wife at one point.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/comments/jkomwb/the_queens_gambit_2020_beth_harmon_was_a_victim/

Why would Bagrov’s wife know about Cleo’s KGB connection?

Cleo was also involved in Benny's loss to Bergov.

I think it’s trying too hard to find nuance that isn’t there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I loved it, but thought there were some details that were especially unrealistic. Like, I don't think an orphanage in Kentucky in the 40s would be integrated. Also, the idea that massive doses of tranquilizers would activate her chess prodigy seemed very far fetched. I could believe lsd or some hallucinogenic did that more than tranquilizers.

You don't need to believe it. There are zero real life female chess prodigies for a reason.

You must be sexist or ignorant. Or both. My school has the current women’s US chess champion. She’s 17. Jennifer Yu. Educate yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I loved it, but thought there were some details that were especially unrealistic. Like, I don't think an orphanage in Kentucky in the 40s would be integrated. Also, the idea that massive doses of tranquilizers would activate her chess prodigy seemed very far fetched. I could believe lsd or some hallucinogenic did that more than tranquilizers.

You don't need to believe it. There are zero real life female chess prodigies for a reason.

You must be sexist or ignorant. Or both. My school has the current women’s US chess champion. She’s 17. Jennifer Yu. Educate yourself.

DP. Actually that was 2019, there's a new champ in 2020.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I loved it, but thought there were some details that were especially unrealistic. Like, I don't think an orphanage in Kentucky in the 40s would be integrated. Also, the idea that massive doses of tranquilizers would activate her chess prodigy seemed very far fetched. I could believe lsd or some hallucinogenic did that more than tranquilizers.

You don't need to believe it. There are zero real life female chess prodigies for a reason.

You must be sexist or ignorant. Or both. My school has the current women’s US chess champion. She’s 17. Jennifer Yu. Educate yourself.

DP. Actually that was 2019, there's a new champ in 2020.

Is the new champ 17?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I loved it, but thought there were some details that were especially unrealistic. Like, I don't think an orphanage in Kentucky in the 40s would be integrated. Also, the idea that massive doses of tranquilizers would activate her chess prodigy seemed very far fetched. I could believe lsd or some hallucinogenic did that more than tranquilizers.

You don't need to believe it. There are zero real life female chess prodigies for a reason.

You must be sexist or ignorant. Or both. My school has the current women’s US chess champion. She’s 17. Jennifer Yu. Educate yourself.

DP. Actually that was 2019, there's a new champ in 2020.

Is the new champ 17?

According to Wiki she is 36, Irina Krush. She has won several times before.

[Anonymous]

Spoiler question:


Did the same actor (Bill Camp) who played Mr. Shaibel the janitor also play the Russian man she played in the park at the end of the series?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Was Beth supposed to be autistic?
I thought this was a fantastic portrayal of someone with autism without making it the defining aspect of the character's life/personality.

There was something definitely off/different about her. She had no idea what to do with the doll the high school chess coach gave her and couldn't relate to the Apple Pi girls at all. Maybe it was due to her rough start in life or maybe something else like autism.

Uh. She didn’t want the doll because that didn’t interest her. Same with the vapid HS girls.

She was precocious, not autistic.

I must have missed the part where that was specifically stated. Can you remind me when it was said or when we hear a diagnosis?

Episode 3, 18:34

Try again. I remember Miss Deardorff talking about her talent for chess but don't think she used a specific word for it other than "gifted child" in Episode 1 with the high school coach. There are a lot of other clues in the series about Beth that point to something more than just precocity. Either way its all speculation. In the 1960s that wouldn't have been a common diagnosis for a girl. This was the era of "refrigerator mothers". But given what we know today, we might call it something else.

What “clues”?

She didn’t want to play with a doll and thought the girls were vapid. Nothing at all “off” about that.

I agree with the PP. She seemed unable to relate to most people; very wooden, walled off, and often humorless. I definitely was under the impression that she might be on the spectrum in some capacity.

I think the trauma of having your mother attempt to murder-suicide you aged 9 might have something to do with it.

That and spending your formative years in an orphanage, devoid of loving parental figures, or extended family... oh yes and the only parental figure you'd ever known tried to kill you... and died in your presence while trying to do so. I would say it would make a fairly normal person crawl right into themselves just to survive if for no other reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought she defected in the end...her state department minder had warned her of anyone trying to make contact, hand her things...and then later obviously he warned her she would miss her flight back to the US.

The crowds outside the Moscow hotel which she obviously enjoyed, I thought were a ploy to get her to warm to Russia.

And finally when Borgov handed her the chess piece.

But I googled immediately after finishing and there was a story where the actress addressed this and said she didn’t think that was what happened.

I don’t think she stayed in Russia. I think she just wanted a little more time to connect with her pure love of the game, with others who loved it just as much. She wanted that moment to herself before heading back to the US and all the ceremonies and celebrity that awaited her.

The scene where she asks the handler what agency he was with... meaning not State but more than likely the CIA, and also he was to be notified if anyone tried to contact her because one of the Russians might want to try to defect or provide intel... so they would just be using her to get to someone who could aid. The agent said there had been rumblings that the Russian players and others associated with the game might want to communicate.

She however wasn't there for political purposes she wasn't pro Russian just pro chess. She was there for her love of the game. She wanted to face the best and the best were the Russians. I think she was really touched by the men in the park, out in the cold, and their love for the game. She wanted to play with people who loved the game as much as she did, the skill at that point didn't matter, she loved the game again. Playing with the men in the park brought her back to her roots, playing chess in the basement with the janitor.

She'd finally gotten to the point where the storm had passed, she'd made some peace with her complicated history, and she knew she was going to be okay.

[Anonymous]

Interestingly, it was actually Kasparov who first brought in the concept of KGB handlers when he met with the creative team behind the Queen's Gambit. His task was to work as a chess technical advisor, and he pointed out:

"The third component is that it’s about Soviet chess. It’s the KGB—these guys are not in the book. I said, “Soviet champions traveling in the ’60s in the West with their family, they must be accompanied by KGB guys.”

https://slate.com/culture/2020/11/queens-gambit-garry-kasparov-interview-netflix-chess-adviser.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was Beth supposed to be autistic?
I thought this was a fantastic portrayal of someone with autism without making it the defining aspect of the character's life/personality.

There was something definitely off/different about her. She had no idea what to do with the doll the high school chess coach gave her and couldn't relate to the Apple Pi girls at all. Maybe it was due to her rough start in life or maybe something else like autism.

Uh. She didn’t want the doll because that didn’t interest her. Same with the vapid HS girls.

She was precocious, not autistic.

I must have missed the part where that was specifically stated. Can you remind me when it was said or when we hear a diagnosis?

Episode 3, 18:34

Try again. I remember Miss Deardorff talking about her talent for chess but don't think she used a specific word for it other than "gifted child" in Episode 1 with the high school coach. There are a lot of other clues in the series about Beth that point to something more than just precocity. Either way its all speculation. In the 1960s that wouldn't have been a common diagnosis for a girl. This was the era of "refrigerator mothers". But given what we know today, we might call it something else.

What “clues”?

She didn’t want to play with a doll and thought the girls were vapid. Nothing at all “off” about that.

I agree with the PP. She seemed unable to relate to most people; very wooden, walled off, and often humorless. I definitely was under the impression that she might be on the spectrum in some capacity.

I think the trauma of having your mother attempt to murder-suicide you aged 9 might have something to do with it.

That and spending your formative years in an orphanage, devoid of loving parental figures, or extended family... oh yes and the only parental figure you'd ever known tried to kill you... and died in your presence while trying to do so. I would say it would make a fairly normal person crawl right into themselves just to survive if for no other reason.

So trauma can cause traits similar to autism? Either way Beth had odd mannerisms and difficult social interactions that seemed very obvious even if we don’t know the cause.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The ending was a little unbelievable. I don’t think she defected. She just wanted to walk around. But I don’t think they would’ve let her do that in 1968.

No they never would but it spoke to her independence of not wanting to be a CIA mole and loving the game. Single minded person.

[Anonymous]

For those critical of Beth or the actress playing her, this article outlines what may be going on - consider that Beth is autistic. This would explain both the acting and the choices Beth makes and situations she doesn’t totally react as you might think is more believable. I think Anya Taylor-Joy was brilliant.

https://valneil.com/2020/10/30/accidentally-autistic-the-queens-gambit/