Just finished The Queen's gambit on Netflix

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What bothers me is when one can't attribute genius to a "normal" person, there's often an explanation that points to a "disorder".

In my opinion, extreme success requires obsession, whether it be in chess, art, or athleticism - whatever. What gets a person to that point is usually interesting; I loved Beth's story.

It's not the genius its the other things that have been said in here again and again. Someone upthread listed like 7 examples of the social interactions which have nothing to do with the genius aspect. I'm sure there are plenty of genius people who don't struggle as much socially, but Beth was not one of those characters. Everyone agrees that she had a traumatic past but it just doesn't easily explain away all the other instances people have cited here. The bizarre instance that it definitely and cannot be autism is very odd here.

It's more a general statement about genius, and maybe I'm missing examples of where that's not the case. I guess my question is do you think that's what the original author or screenwriter was trying to convey? For it me it doesn't matter whether it's definitively Autism or not. She is a complicated character and that makes her interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What bothers me is when one can't attribute genius to a "normal" person, there's often an explanation that points to a "disorder".

In my opinion, extreme success requires obsession, whether it be in chess, art, or athleticism - whatever. What gets a person to that point is usually interesting; I loved Beth's story.

It's not the genius its the other things that have been said in here again and again. Someone upthread listed like 7 examples of the social interactions which have nothing to do with the genius aspect. I'm sure there are plenty of genius people who don't struggle as much socially, but Beth was not one of those characters. Everyone agrees that she had a traumatic past but it just doesn't easily explain away all the other instances people have cited here. The bizarre instance that it definitely and cannot be autism is very odd here.

It's more a general statement about genius, and maybe I'm missing examples of where that's not the case. I guess my question is do you think that's what the original author or screenwriter was trying to convey? For it me it doesn't matter whether it's definitively Autism or not. She is a complicated character and that makes her interesting.

I don't know what the screenwriter was trying to portray. That maybe she could be on the spectrum was just a discussion point. Maybe she is, maybe not. She's obviously a complicated character who has demons she's fighting like addiction, loneliness, depression, etc. Some people thought they noticed some ASD quirks and for some reason that became controversial. Why? It doesn't take away from Beth's genius. She clearly is a chess prodigy and highly intelligent but that doesn't mean she can't also be on the spectrum. At this point I'm tired of talking about it. It doesn't matter if anyone disagrees but that someone/people just keep trying to shut the idea down without offering up any rationale for why they disagree has become interesting in its own regard as if it takes anything away from the character or its a dirty insulting accusation which it absolutely isn't.

[Anonymous]

In the book, the author obviously doesn't conceive of her as HFA, because that wasn't really a thing at the time. That said, she does have a lot of traits the author may have drawn from her experiences with people who would now be recognized as on the spectrum, though they weren't at the time. So saying that the author didn't intend her to be on the spectrum doesn't really definitively answer the question; that's what's great about fiction!

That said, whether it was the screenwriter or the director or even just the actress, how the character was performed in the series *obviously* drew inspiration from the mannerisms of HFA women whether or not they intended her to be on the spectrum per se.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Pretty sad she never returned the custodian’s $10.

I was too.

On

It was a gift + an investment in her success

It was not a gift. She wrote to him saying she’d pay him back $10. (He paid $5). She then said at his funeral that she never repaid him (which confirms she knew she owed it back to him.)

Can anyone think of an example of how she wasn’t selfish?

Her mother asked for 10% commission but she gave her 15% instead.

I guess that’s one. I figured she had 15% in her head and that’s what she was going to do. Meaning it wasn’t so much as a giving gesture as what she was planning to always do. It wasn’t accompanied by, “You do all the budgeting and planning, I think you’re worth 15%.”

I don’t think Beth ever really thought of paying her until she asked. So I took it as Beth loved her and wanted her to know she thought she was worth more.

+1 I found Beth's compassion for her adopted mom's "stuck-ness" really moving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really liked the series. As I got closer to the end, I was really wondering how they could give it a happy ending. They found a way and it was sweet. But it was maybe a little too neat or glossy. I thought it'd take longer for her to get over her addiction(s). And she had some serious trauma in her childhood and maybe mental illness in the family (her birth mom).

The characters were so good. I particularly liked the woman who adopted her. Such a complex character and very sad.

Agreed. Wonderful characters, wonderful cast.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:SPOILER DO NOT READ if you haven't seen the show! - how did her mom die? was it hepatitis? Is it related to her alcoholism?

She said she was in love with Townes? Is that the reporter? Why didn't she pursue that?

Who was the man her real mom Alice was talking to before she died? What were they saying?

That was Beth's dad and his new family/wife. She asks for help with taking care of Beth.

I wasn't sure about this scene. I thought it might be that she had an affair with a married man because he kept telling her she had to get out of there. If it was just a previous wife or relationship why all the secrecy? I feel like there were some unanswered questions with Beth's mom and why she felt she had to do what she did.

I thought her mother was a brilliant math ph.d who was perhaps bipolar or similar and was losing her mind. She was trying to drop off Beth with her real father to keep Beth safe, but when he refused she saw no alternative but to kill both herself and Beth in a car crash. But Beth survived.

But wasn't there a scene where the dad showed up outside Beth and her mom's house and wanted to see her (Beth) but the mom refused. What changed that he would now be telling Alice that she had to leave and couldn't be there at his house? I followed the gist of the story there just seemed to be some missing details, or I blinked and missed.

When Beth's dad came to the trailer to advocate for better living conditions for their daughter and her mom wouldn't talk to him, he told her he was done from that point. That's why he said it was too late when she showed up at his house, after he had started a new family. She was having a breakdown and tried to kill both of them in the car.

[Anonymous]

Dear god, can we move on and talk about something other than whether or not Beth has autism?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought for sure the Russian player was going to defect. Throw the game and send a message in that chess piece he handed her.

+1 I 100% thought this is what was happening. It was all wrapped up a bit to tidily for my tastes.

[Anonymous]

I wanted to like this and enjoyed the fashions but why would you set a story in 1958 and then act like a girl, in fact a you g girl would encounter zero sexism and push back because of her gender? I find it totally unbelievable that all these men were just fine and dandy losing to a little girl. I also hated the casting of Benny. No charisma in that kid - looked like a little boy in a cowboy costume. Plus a pretty expected, nice tied up, predictable happy ending. 😕 meh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wanted to like this and enjoyed the fashions but why would you set a story in 1958 and then act like a girl, in fact a you g girl would encounter zero sexism and push back because of her gender? I find it totally unbelievable that all these men were just fine and dandy losing to a little girl. I also hated the casting of Benny. No charisma in that kid - looked like a little boy in a cowboy costume. Plus a pretty expected, nice tied up, predictable happy ending. 😕 meh.

As someone who was a huge nerd in HS, Benny was hands-down the best character. There are so many "that guys" in nerdy spaces.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wanted to like this and enjoyed the fashions but why would you set a story in 1958 and then act like a girl, in fact a you g girl would encounter zero sexism and push back because of her gender? I find it totally unbelievable that all these men were just fine and dandy losing to a little girl. I also hated the casting of Benny. No charisma in that kid - looked like a little boy in a cowboy costume. Plus a pretty expected, nice tied up, predictable happy ending. 😕 meh.

I agree with the sexism point and also disliked the Benny casting, but I liked it anyway. Because the lead actress and the rest of the cast were fantastic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dear god, can we move on and talk about something other than whether or not Beth has autism?

OK. I loved that white dress with the big buttons on the shoulder. I wonder if I could live in a house with such flowery wallpaper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dear god, can we move on and talk about something other than whether or not Beth has autism?

Yes let’s talk about the big match Beth almost missed because Cleo showed up unexpectedly wanting to have a drink. Cleo was so conniving, and knew Beth couldn’t say no. In fact when they first met, Cleo said one of the guys saved her from attempted suicide. Why was Cleo suicidal? I think Cleo was bi and dealing with her own mental and substance abuse issues. Cleo kissed Beth (like French people do) when they first met, and I immediately got the sense Cleo has no boundaries. Anyway when there was a knock at the hotel door before the big match in Paris, you see Cleo asleep in the bed, but Beth isn’t in the bed, instead she was fully clothed and climbing out of bath tub as if she was about to drown - she was out of breath. What does that signify to you? I felt like the knock on the door saved her life. Chess saved her life. Cleo represented drugs, alcohol, abuse, and sabotage.
Discuss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dear god, can we move on and talk about something other than whether or not Beth has autism?

Yes let’s talk about the big match Beth almost missed because Cleo showed up unexpectedly wanting to have a drink. Cleo was so conniving, and knew Beth couldn’t say no. In fact when they first met, Cleo said one of the guys saved her from attempted suicide. Why was Cleo suicidal? I think Cleo was bi and dealing with her own mental and substance abuse issues. Cleo kissed Beth (like French people do) when they first met, and I immediately got the sense Cleo has no boundaries. Anyway when there was a knock at the hotel door before the big match in Paris, you see Cleo asleep in the bed, but Beth isn’t in the bed, instead she was fully clothed and climbing out of bath tub as if she was about to drown - she was out of breath. What does that signify to you? I felt like the knock on the door saved her life. Chess saved her life. Cleo represented drugs, alcohol, abuse, and sabotage.
Discuss

I assumed Clio was a spy for the Russians, sent to sabotage Beth. Remember the elevator scene when they discussed her alcoholism in Russian?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dear god, can we move on and talk about something other than whether or not Beth has autism?

Did you know the actress who played Alma the adoptive mother, is actually a movie director?

She directed the recent A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood starring Tom Hanks

and

Can you Ever Forgive Me? Starring Melissa Mccarthy. One of my all time favorite movies.

I thought her performance as Beth's mother was multi-faceted and brilliant. \\