Is Notre Dame screwing up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She's right -- No medical doctors on these ND Covid committees:

https://here.nd.edu/our-approach/leadership-teams/medical-health-sub-committee/

https://here.nd.edu/our-approach/leadership-teams/operations-reopening-sub-committee/

These are internal committees. ND does not have a medical school so of course there aren't doctors on them. They have hired extensive medical professional consultants to work with the committees.

Exactly. ND has been working with the Cleveland Clinic and Johns Hopkins to devise the plans. That said, it is has not gone well. I am VERY worried about my son who is there right now and currently healthy. I do not want him to end up in one of the isolation units as they are not well staffed for the influx of cases. My prediction is he will be on a plane home by next week.

Very upsetting and disappointing.

Just because they worked with Hopkins and the Cleveland Clinic doesn't mean ND took all of their advice. JHU is not doing anything onlien this fall and told its students not to come to Baltimore.

No regular weekly or biweekly asymptomatic testing and full isolation / quarantine = outbreaks. It is true that outbreaks puts faculty and staff at far greater risk of illness than students but as an employer they cannot take that risk. They also should monitor whether they will be overburdening local hospital capacity.

These universities do not operate in a vacuum, expecting any community to fully comply with social distancing is foolish (look at nearly ever communty around the country). People who thought this fall would not be a grim experience for students is insane.

This was the year to take a gap year, especially if you are first year student.

I am very sorry for the ND student and his mom, that is upsetting. FWIW, the hospital is not at all overwhelmed with COVID cases from ND. I live in SB and one of my friends is an administrator at one of the local hospitals. Hospitalized COVID cases are well below capacity of the existing COVID wards, and more wards can be transitioned to COVID wards as needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They have a medical committee with zero medical people on it? That is ridiculously stupid.

Can you imagine that discussion? “We need a medical committee to advise us on all the medical ramifications of our plan”. “Good idea. Who shall we put on the medical committee?” “One thing for sure is we don’t want any doctors or nurses on the medical committee”. Hmmmm what could possibly go wrong? Everyone will think, “hey we are really on top of this if we have a medical committee. We don’t really have to say we don’t have any medical folks on the medical committee do we?”

For the third time, it's an internal committee consisting of administrators. there is no medical school at ND. None of the committees have outsiders on them. They have used consultants who ARE medical experts to form the plan. which clearly didn't work, but they certainly had a plan formed with the advice of medical experts.

You seem to not have much experience working with committees. That makes you 1. very lucky, but 2. unused to how they operate. I have spearheaded a number of committees, too many committees, and they are rarely filled with experts. You hire the experts, you don't put them on the committee.

And you don't necessarily follow all the recommendations of the experts.

UNC said they were working with the local health department on their plan; they didn't reveal that the health department advised / asked them not to bring students to campus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They have a medical committee with zero medical people on it? That is ridiculously stupid.

Can you imagine that discussion? “We need a medical committee to advise us on all the medical ramifications of our plan”. “Good idea. Who shall we put on the medical committee?” “One thing for sure is we don’t want any doctors or nurses on the medical committee”. Hmmmm what could possibly go wrong? Everyone will think, “hey we are really on top of this if we have a medical committee. We don’t really have to say we don’t have any medical folks on the medical committee do we?”

For the third time, it's an internal committee consisting of administrators. there is no medical school at ND. None of the committees have outsiders on them. They have used consultants who ARE medical experts to form the plan. which clearly didn't work, but they certainly had a plan formed with the advice of medical experts.

You seem to not have much experience working with committees. That makes you 1. very lucky, but 2. unused to how they operate. I have spearheaded a number of committees, too many committees, and they are rarely filled with experts. You hire the experts, you don't put them on the committee.

Oh please. These are committees unlike any other. I am faculty member/administrator at a university and you simply cannot compare typical committees with the committees designed to prevent the spread of COVID on a residential college campus. You need ID specialists and epidemiologists on these committees. It's laughable that you think these are comparable to curriculum committees or faculty senates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They have a medical committee with zero medical people on it? That is ridiculously stupid.

Can you imagine that discussion? “We need a medical committee to advise us on all the medical ramifications of our plan”. “Good idea. Who shall we put on the medical committee?” “One thing for sure is we don’t want any doctors or nurses on the medical committee”. Hmmmm what could possibly go wrong? Everyone will think, “hey we are really on top of this if we have a medical committee. We don’t really have to say we don’t have any medical folks on the medical committee do we?”

For the third time, it's an internal committee consisting of administrators. there is no medical school at ND. None of the committees have outsiders on them. They have used consultants who ARE medical experts to form the plan. which clearly didn't work, but they certainly had a plan formed with the advice of medical experts.

You seem to not have much experience working with committees. That makes you 1. very lucky, but 2. unused to how they operate. I have spearheaded a number of committees, too many committees, and they are rarely filled with experts. You hire the experts, you don't put them on the committee.

Oh please. These are committees unlike any other. I am faculty member/administrator at a university and you simply cannot compare typical committees with the committees designed to prevent the spread of COVID on a residential college campus. You need ID specialists and epidemiologists on these committees. It's laughable that you think these are comparable to curriculum committees or faculty senates.

It's laughable you think that those people don't exist/aren't working with the committee, just because they aren't listed on the (internal) committee masthead. Look at all the committees. They are all internally staffed, mostly with administrators. ND does not have internal ID specialists and epidemiologists so they must hire them from outside, and they have done. I'm not basing this on comparisons to other curriculum/promotion/etc committees, but on the actual structure ND has used which would be apparent if you'd looked at the facts on the public website page listing committee members. It's not a secret or anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They have a medical committee with zero medical people on it? That is ridiculously stupid.

Can you imagine that discussion? “We need a medical committee to advise us on all the medical ramifications of our plan”. “Good idea. Who shall we put on the medical committee?” “One thing for sure is we don’t want any doctors or nurses on the medical committee”. Hmmmm what could possibly go wrong? Everyone will think, “hey we are really on top of this if we have a medical committee. We don’t really have to say we don’t have any medical folks on the medical committee do we?”

For the third time, it's an internal committee consisting of administrators. there is no medical school at ND. None of the committees have outsiders on them. They have used consultants who ARE medical experts to form the plan. which clearly didn't work, but they certainly had a plan formed with the advice of medical experts.

You seem to not have much experience working with committees. That makes you 1. very lucky, but 2. unused to how they operate. I have spearheaded a number of committees, too many committees, and they are rarely filled with experts. You hire the experts, you don't put them on the committee.

Oh please. These are committees unlike any other. I am faculty member/administrator at a university and you simply cannot compare typical committees with the committees designed to prevent the spread of COVID on a residential college campus. You need ID specialists and epidemiologists on these committees. It's laughable that you think these are comparable to curriculum committees or faculty senates.

It's laughable you think that those people don't exist/aren't working with the committee, just because they aren't listed on the (internal) committee masthead. Look at all the committees. They are all internally staffed, mostly with administrators. ND does not have internal ID specialists and epidemiologists so they must hire them from outside, and they have done. I'm not basing this on comparisons to other curriculum/promotion/etc committees, but on the actual structure ND has used which would be apparent if you'd looked at the facts on the public website page listing committee members. It's not a secret or anything.

Oh, I believe they "worked with" experts not listed on the website--it's clear, though, that ND leadership chose NOT to follow the advice of medical experts.

[Anonymous]

304 now.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:304 now.....

Actually better than I expected. Not growing exponentially anymore? Basically the same number of cases as yesterday. Still concerning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:304 now.....

and for most it will be no big deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:304 now.....

and for most it will be no big deal.

And yet that's still not the point. The point is the reproduction rate of each individual case that leads to widespread community transmission and then multiply that across all the colleges amplifying community transmission across the country both by being in session and then if/when they close by sending students back. The reproduction rate of the virus is proving much, much higher at these first examples of residential colleges despite all the efforts to limit it than in communities in general. The resulting hospitalization and death rate from transmission will be the same whether it was started in a relatively unaffected group of people or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:304 now.....

Actually better than I expected. Not growing exponentially anymore? Basically the same number of cases as yesterday. Still concerning.

I'm sure the actual numbers are higher. Students were complaining that they were being denied tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:304 now.....

They tested 11,400ish before they went back, right? So 2.6% of students and staff are confirmed to have it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:304 now.....

They tested 11,400ish before they went back, right? So 2.6% of students and staff are confirmed to have it?

222 rising to 304 is a rise of 82 new cases in one day.

82 new cases out of a population of 11,400 = 719 new cases, per 100,000 per day.

So that qualifies as a VERY LARGE OUTBREAK I should think.

[Anonymous]

Notre Dame's first football game is Sept 12 and they just added a game against a Florida university on Sept 19th. Is there NCAA language that the non-athlete kids have to remain on campus up until the first football game? Like is there going to be a mass exodus of families moving out of campus right after the Sept 12th game?

Notre Dame adding South Florida to 2020 football schedule [Sat., Sept. 19th]
https://www.abc57.com/news/reports-notre-dame-adding-south-florida-to-2020-football-schedule

[Anonymous]

Any kids in the hospital? I'd assume the lack of hysteric articles about overrun hospitals in South Bend means this is a big nothingburger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any kids in the hospital? I'd assume the lack of hysteric articles about overrun hospitals in South Bend means this is a big nothingburger.

As of yesterday there have been no students hospitalized. At least one of the two hospitals is operating well under COVID capacity. IDK about the other.