Are these H St. NE / Capitol Hill houses priced appropriately?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are some Hill East new-build alley houses that I think have the right idea - more housing for families, not strange high-art $1.5 mil 1200 sq ft garages.

http://www.monumentsothebysrealty.com/eng/sales/detail/522-l-84072-j7ndnt/465-a-duvall-court-se-hill-east-washington-dc-20003

I much prefer Linden Court. It may not be everyone’s style but that’s kind of the point. When you have a weird alley space, why not do something totally different and see if you can fill a niche currently going unserved. Linden Court will appeal to a lot of people who are tired of skinny house living, who are looking for more of a loft aesthetic. Similar to some of the school conversions on the Hill.

These homes are just small row homes. Nothing wrong with them, but also something you can find in a similar layout and at a similar price point all over the neighborhood.

My point was that I’d rather see family housing built, not super rich niche housing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what's going on with these houses at the corner of K ST NE and 2ND ST NE? There's an entire row of boarded up homes overgrown with weeds, in an area where development is popping. They look like they've been abandoned for years.

https://goo.gl/maps/oH3JrhbrbHU1Rr8TA

I just noticed these today on my am walk! I’m guessing they were bought by a builder who has dreams of another big condo overlooking the tracks.

My understanding (I'm not privy to the details) is that they are locked in a legal battle with some neighborhood NIMBYs. Apparently the organization that bought all of the homes (including a few on K and Parker) wants to build an eight-story building filled with a hundred micro-units (per the above UrbanTurf link and minutes from ANC meetings during the past couple of years). That's as large as nearby block-long developments on a footprint of a half-dozen rowhouses, with no alley access. It's a ridiculous plan, and while this is playing out between lawyers, the developer is just letting the properties fall into disrepair, attracting squatters and vermin and being a general eyesore. Sad.

why is it a ridiculous plan?

Wild guess:

"That's as large as nearby block-long developments on a footprint of a half-dozen rowhouses, with no alley access."

It's an apartment building - so of course it's going to be a relatively small footprint. That's then entire point of increasing housing - more housing on less land. As for alley access, why is that important? I assume the building will be designed in a way that allows entrance and egress as required under the codes. If it's blocking existing alley access for homeowners, then that's a different matter, but I still don't think the alley access of a handful of residents ought to stand in the way of a building that could house hundreds (including low income set asides).

This is probably the first time I've seen someone on DCUM advocate for tearing down historic single-family homes to build a low-income apartment building.

maybe you should stop hanging around with so many NIMBYs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Listed just a few minutes ago, just one block from Lincoln Park. If you're ready to tackle your own renovations, you can end up with a house worth well over a million. Good luck finding another 4br house with 2000+ sq ft on the Hill for $859k.

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/20-14th-St-NE-20002/home/166622856

And zoned for Maury. I expect this will go fast.

yeah it’s a great deal, especially with the basement rental potential. this is exactly what I’d be looking to buy so I could oversee any improvements myself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what's going on with these houses at the corner of K ST NE and 2ND ST NE? There's an entire row of boarded up homes overgrown with weeds, in an area where development is popping. They look like they've been abandoned for years.

https://goo.gl/maps/oH3JrhbrbHU1Rr8TA

I just noticed these today on my am walk! I’m guessing they were bought by a builder who has dreams of another big condo overlooking the tracks.

My understanding (I'm not privy to the details) is that they are locked in a legal battle with some neighborhood NIMBYs. Apparently the organization that bought all of the homes (including a few on K and Parker) wants to build an eight-story building filled with a hundred micro-units (per the above UrbanTurf link and minutes from ANC meetings during the past couple of years). That's as large as nearby block-long developments on a footprint of a half-dozen rowhouses, with no alley access. It's a ridiculous plan, and while this is playing out between lawyers, the developer is just letting the properties fall into disrepair, attracting squatters and vermin and being a general eyesore. Sad.

why is it a ridiculous plan?

Wild guess:

"That's as large as nearby block-long developments on a footprint of a half-dozen rowhouses, with no alley access."

It's an apartment building - so of course it's going to be a relatively small footprint. That's then entire point of increasing housing - more housing on less land. As for alley access, why is that important? I assume the building will be designed in a way that allows entrance and egress as required under the codes. If it's blocking existing alley access for homeowners, then that's a different matter, but I still don't think the alley access of a handful of residents ought to stand in the way of a building that could house hundreds (including low income set asides).

This is probably the first time I've seen someone on DCUM advocate for tearing down historic single-family homes to build a low-income apartment building.

maybe you should stop hanging around with so many NIMBYs?

I live a few blocks away and I agree that it makes sense to use the space for something like what the PP described. Those houses are perfectly nice but they aren't anything so special that they need to be preserved. I've heard it described that the city is aiming for a smoother transition between the density of NoMa/downtown and the less dense neighborhoods around H Street, which seems reasonable.

That said, it's not obvious to me that the goal for the building is low-income housing. This is a couple of blocks from Union Station, so I think they may be aiming for the business on the Hill pied a terre set who are only there part time and need very little space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's an apartment building - so of course it's going to be a relatively small footprint. That's then entire point of increasing housing - more housing on less land. As for alley access, why is that important? I assume the building will be designed in a way that allows entrance and egress as required under the codes. If it's blocking existing alley access for homeowners, then that's a different matter, but I still don't think the alley access of a handful of residents ought to stand in the way of a building that could house hundreds (including low income set asides).

This is probably the first time I've seen someone on DCUM advocate for tearing down historic single-family homes to build a low-income apartment building.

maybe you should stop hanging around with so many NIMBYs?

I live a few blocks away and I agree that it makes sense to use the space for something like what the PP described. Those houses are perfectly nice but they aren't anything so special that they need to be preserved. I've heard it described that the city is aiming for a smoother transition between the density of NoMa/downtown and the less dense neighborhoods around H Street, which seems reasonable.

That said, it's not obvious to me that the goal for the building is low-income housing. This is a couple of blocks from Union Station, so I think they may be aiming for the business on the Hill pied a terre set who are only there part time and need very little space.

I think the confusion is that the proposed plan is for micro-units (studios, usually smaller than 500 square feet). They are generally not aimed at low-income renters but at very young professionals and grad students. Given how many Georgetown Law students and Hill interns live in nearby buildings, that's probably a good spot for them. But I can understand why neighbors would be unenthusiastic, as this is not a demographic known for being particularly fun to live around.

I am always supportive of higher density housing, as we have a serious housing shortage in this city. I will confess, though, that this project annoys me because what we really need more of is family housing, not more tiny luxury apartments for 20 somethings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's an apartment building - so of course it's going to be a relatively small footprint. That's then entire point of increasing housing - more housing on less land. As for alley access, why is that important? I assume the building will be designed in a way that allows entrance and egress as required under the codes. If it's blocking existing alley access for homeowners, then that's a different matter, but I still don't think the alley access of a handful of residents ought to stand in the way of a building that could house hundreds (including low income set asides).

This is probably the first time I've seen someone on DCUM advocate for tearing down historic single-family homes to build a low-income apartment building.

maybe you should stop hanging around with so many NIMBYs?

I live a few blocks away and I agree that it makes sense to use the space for something like what the PP described. Those houses are perfectly nice but they aren't anything so special that they need to be preserved. I've heard it described that the city is aiming for a smoother transition between the density of NoMa/downtown and the less dense neighborhoods around H Street, which seems reasonable.

That said, it's not obvious to me that the goal for the building is low-income housing. This is a couple of blocks from Union Station, so I think they may be aiming for the business on the Hill pied a terre set who are only there part time and need very little space.

I think the confusion is that the proposed plan is for micro-units (studios, usually smaller than 500 square feet). They are generally not aimed at low-income renters but at very young professionals and grad students. Given how many Georgetown Law students and Hill interns live in nearby buildings, that's probably a good spot for them. But I can understand why neighbors would be unenthusiastic, as this is not a demographic known for being particularly fun to live around.

I am always supportive of higher density housing, as we have a serious housing shortage in this city. I will confess, though, that this project annoys me because what we really need more of is family housing, not more tiny luxury apartments for 20 somethings.

I also think some of the confusion is that the group behind the development (CAIR) is a social justice organization. People see a Muslim advocacy organization that wants to build a tower of micro-units and assume it must be for low-income and indigent individuals.

[Anonymous]

Saw this on a really pretty one-block street near 13th and H. What do you think of the list price ($829)? There's so little inventory in this area. I'm curious to see what this ultimately sells for.

https://www.trulia.com/p/dc/washington/1241-linden-pl-ne-washington-dc-20002--1011736889

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what's going on with these houses at the corner of K ST NE and 2ND ST NE? There's an entire row of boarded up homes overgrown with weeds, in an area where development is popping. They look like they've been abandoned for years.

https://goo.gl/maps/oH3JrhbrbHU1Rr8TA

I just noticed these today on my am walk! I’m guessing they were bought by a builder who has dreams of another big condo overlooking the tracks.

My understanding (I'm not privy to the details) is that they are locked in a legal battle with some neighborhood NIMBYs. Apparently the organization that bought all of the homes (including a few on K and Parker) wants to build an eight-story building filled with a hundred micro-units (per the above UrbanTurf link and minutes from ANC meetings during the past couple of years). That's as large as nearby block-long developments on a footprint of a half-dozen rowhouses, with no alley access. It's a ridiculous plan, and while this is playing out between lawyers, the developer is just letting the properties fall into disrepair, attracting squatters and vermin and being a general eyesore. Sad.

why is it a ridiculous plan?

Wild guess:

"That's as large as nearby block-long developments on a footprint of a half-dozen rowhouses, with no alley access."

It's an apartment building - so of course it's going to be a relatively small footprint. That's then entire point of increasing housing - more housing on less land. As for alley access, why is that important? I assume the building will be designed in a way that allows entrance and egress as required under the codes. If it's blocking existing alley access for homeowners, then that's a different matter, but I still don't think the alley access of a handful of residents ought to stand in the way of a building that could house hundreds (including low income set asides).

This is probably the first time I've seen someone on DCUM advocate for tearing down historic single-family homes to build a low-income apartment building.

maybe you should stop hanging around with so many NIMBYs?

I live a few blocks away and I agree that it makes sense to use the space for something like what the PP described. Those houses are perfectly nice but they aren't anything so special that they need to be preserved. I've heard it described that the city is aiming for a smoother transition between the density of NoMa/downtown and the less dense neighborhoods around H Street, which seems reasonable.

That said, it's not obvious to me that the goal for the building is low-income housing. This is a couple of blocks from Union Station, so I think they may be aiming for the business on the Hill pied a terre set who are only there part time and need very little space.

I think they are looking for a variance, which means the inclusionary zoning regs that require a percentage to be low income would kick in. But I’m not sure. It’s not all low income, agreed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Saw this on a really pretty one-block street near 13th and H. What do you think of the list price ($829)? There's so little inventory in this area. I'm curious to see what this ultimately sells for.

https://www.trulia.com/p/dc/washington/1241-linden-pl-ne-washington-dc-20002--1011736889

That’s a GREAT block but oof that house is small. And you can tell how misleading the photos are by comparing one to the next— watch how the brick chimney in the living room becomes a brick wall in one photo trying to make the room look wider. Plus that staircase position is awful.

Whenever I see houses like this listed for over 800, I have to assume that condos start to look pretty good to people. For 829, you could get a really nice condo in this neighborhood. And it would have a better layout. People complain about condo fees but these townhouse conversions tend to have really low fees. The most compelling argument is that their value won’t appreciate as quickly as a SFH.

For me, I’d take a well laid-out condo any day if the week over something this small and awkward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what's going on with these houses at the corner of K ST NE and 2ND ST NE? There's an entire row of boarded up homes overgrown with weeds, in an area where development is popping. They look like they've been abandoned for years.

https://goo.gl/maps/oH3JrhbrbHU1Rr8TA

I just noticed these today on my am walk! I’m guessing they were bought by a builder who has dreams of another big condo overlooking the tracks.

My understanding (I'm not privy to the details) is that they are locked in a legal battle with some neighborhood NIMBYs. Apparently the organization that bought all of the homes (including a few on K and Parker) wants to build an eight-story building filled with a hundred micro-units (per the above UrbanTurf link and minutes from ANC meetings during the past couple of years). That's as large as nearby block-long developments on a footprint of a half-dozen rowhouses, with no alley access. It's a ridiculous plan, and while this is playing out between lawyers, the developer is just letting the properties fall into disrepair, attracting squatters and vermin and being a general eyesore. Sad.

why is it a ridiculous plan?

Wild guess:

"That's as large as nearby block-long developments on a footprint of a half-dozen rowhouses, with no alley access."

It's an apartment building - so of course it's going to be a relatively small footprint. That's then entire point of increasing housing - more housing on less land. As for alley access, why is that important? I assume the building will be designed in a way that allows entrance and egress as required under the codes. If it's blocking existing alley access for homeowners, then that's a different matter, but I still don't think the alley access of a handful of residents ought to stand in the way of a building that could house hundreds (including low income set asides).

This is probably the first time I've seen someone on DCUM advocate for tearing down historic single-family homes to build a low-income apartment building.

maybe you should stop hanging around with so many NIMBYs?

I live a few blocks away and I agree that it makes sense to use the space for something like what the PP described. Those houses are perfectly nice but they aren't anything so special that they need to be preserved. I've heard it described that the city is aiming for a smoother transition between the density of NoMa/downtown and the less dense neighborhoods around H Street, which seems reasonable.

That said, it's not obvious to me that the goal for the building is low-income housing. This is a couple of blocks from Union Station, so I think they may be aiming for the business on the Hill pied a terre set who are only there part time and need very little space.

I think they are looking for a variance, which means the inclusionary zoning regs that require a percentage to be low income would kick in. But I’m not sure. It’s not all low income, agreed.

Well, whatever ends up happening, needs to happen fast. The current situation of an entire block abandoned and in disrepair is not good for anybody, whether developers with money tied up in lawsuits or current neighbors who have to put up with all the crime and rodents that stretch attracts. In just one evening walk down that block, I witnessed one act of illicit sex and (the aftermath of) two car break-ins. Not to mention the homeless tents that are starting to pop up again after the K Street underpass eviction earlier this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Saw this on a really pretty one-block street near 13th and H. What do you think of the list price ($829)? There's so little inventory in this area. I'm curious to see what this ultimately sells for.

https://www.trulia.com/p/dc/washington/1241-linden-pl-ne-washington-dc-20002--1011736889

That’s less than a block from my house and it seems very expensive to me. It’s cute and Linden is a great street but that is still a two bedroom in-bounds for Miner. (No dis intended; we are also in-bounds for Miner!) We are in a larger 3 bedroom-plus-basement and I think we’d probably get around that asking price for our house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Saw this on a really pretty one-block street near 13th and H. What do you think of the list price ($829)? There's so little inventory in this area. I'm curious to see what this ultimately sells for.

https://www.trulia.com/p/dc/washington/1241-linden-pl-ne-washington-dc-20002--1011736889

That’s less than a block from my house and it seems very expensive to me. It’s cute and Linden is a great street but that is still a two bedroom in-bounds for Miner. (No dis intended; we are also in-bounds for Miner!) We are in a larger 3 bedroom-plus-basement and I think we’d probably get around that asking price for our house.

A year ago, houses like those sold in Linden Court for about 750-780k if my memory doesn't fail me...
So, 829k... Either fast appreciation in the H Street corridor area within a year, or they've ovepriced it a bit...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Saw this on a really pretty one-block street near 13th and H. What do you think of the list price ($829)? There's so little inventory in this area. I'm curious to see what this ultimately sells for.

https://www.trulia.com/p/dc/washington/1241-linden-pl-ne-washington-dc-20002--1011736889

That’s a GREAT block but oof that house is small. And you can tell how misleading the photos are by comparing one to the next— watch how the brick chimney in the living room becomes a brick wall in one photo trying to make the room look wider. Plus that staircase position is awful.

Whenever I see houses like this listed for over 800, I have to assume that condos start to look pretty good to people. For 829, you could get a really nice condo in this neighborhood. And it would have a better layout. People complain about condo fees but these townhouse conversions tend to have really low fees. The most compelling argument is that their value won’t appreciate as quickly as a SFH.

For me, I’d take a well laid-out condo any day if the week over something this small and awkward.

I love how in the same thread we have some people touting 700 sq ft zoned for Maury as family housing and other people calling 1500 unbearably small. This is a cute house and Linden is a cute block. An entire house will win out over a condo every time. Have you been inside some of these conversions? They're so flimsy feeling, like you could fall through the floor at any second.

The main things that might hurt this house at this price is no parking pad, electric stove, and no central HVAC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Saw this on a really pretty one-block street near 13th and H. What do you think of the list price ($829)? There's so little inventory in this area. I'm curious to see what this ultimately sells for.

https://www.trulia.com/p/dc/washington/1241-linden-pl-ne-washington-dc-20002--1011736889

That’s less than a block from my house and it seems very expensive to me. It’s cute and Linden is a great street but that is still a two bedroom in-bounds for Miner. (No dis intended; we are also in-bounds for Miner!) We are in a larger 3 bedroom-plus-basement and I think we’d probably get around that asking price for our house.

A year ago, houses like those sold in Linden Court for about 750-780k if my memory doesn't fail me...
So, 829k... Either fast appreciation in the H Street corridor area within a year, or they've ovepriced it a bit...

Three houses have sold on Linden in the past year. One for $785k (with a current Redfin estimate of $897k), one for $740k (current estimate $825k), and a significantly smaller one for $740k (current estimate $802k). $829k is ambitious, but you can't compare year over year. You can only compare with current comps, and houses in that price range are flying fast.

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/1213-Linden-Pl-NE-20002/home/9910007
https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/1238-Linden-Pl-NE-20002/home/9909860
https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/1234-Linden-Pl-NE-20002/home/9909867

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Saw this on a really pretty one-block street near 13th and H. What do you think of the list price ($829)? There's so little inventory in this area. I'm curious to see what this ultimately sells for.

https://www.trulia.com/p/dc/washington/1241-linden-pl-ne-washington-dc-20002--1011736889

That’s less than a block from my house and it seems very expensive to me. It’s cute and Linden is a great street but that is still a two bedroom in-bounds for Miner. (No dis intended; we are also in-bounds for Miner!) We are in a larger 3 bedroom-plus-basement and I think we’d probably get around that asking price for our house.

A year ago, houses like those sold in Linden Court for about 750-780k if my memory doesn't fail me...
So, 829k... Either fast appreciation in the H Street corridor area within a year, or they've ovepriced it a bit...

Three houses have sold on Linden in the past year. One for $785k (with a current Redfin estimate of $897k), one for $740k (current estimate $825k), and a significantly smaller one for $740k (current estimate $802k). $829k is ambitious, but you can't compare year over year. You can only compare with current comps, and houses in that price range are flying fast.

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/1213-Linden-Pl-NE-20002/home/9910007
https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/1238-Linden-Pl-NE-20002/home/9909860
https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/1234-Linden-Pl-NE-20002/home/9909867

All fair points. One additional thing that strikes me is that, setting aside the question above about how accurate/clever the photos are (agreed; you can always take photos with a grain of salt), it's still 1500 square feet! That's definitely on the larger end for a 2 bed/2 bath rowhouse around here (think of how many even 3 BR houses you see at 1300 or 1400). Whether that's enough space for a particular buyer is a personal call, but it's definitely roomy among others with similar specs.