“Colleges That Change Lives”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe I am reading a post from an in-state Virginia resident saying that that would rather have their kids go to a CTLC school instead of W&M. What a mistake.

Should students automatically go the highest ranked school they can get into, regardless of whether or not it's a good fit for them? That could end badly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe I am reading a post from an in-state Virginia resident saying that that would rather have their kids go to a CTLC school instead of W&M. What a mistake.

Seriously, Kalamazoo at 60K over W&M at $40? Even with a $36K scholarship, the difference in prestige is enormous. UVA is $31K - $32K.

She's applying to both (and others). Admission is more certain at Kalamazoo and likely will have a total cost of attendance of 28K so the 60k sticker price is meaningless to us. That's 12K/yr less than W&M. For her that's the difference between having student loans or not based on the W&M NPC. (Our EFC is 32k which means her aid at W&M would likely be just student loans and work study). And going on study abroad would cost even less whereas at W&M it adds cost. She'll also apply to UVA which is not as likely an admit for her because though she's got SATs above their 75th% but her GPA is a below what Naviance suggests she'd get in with from her school--it looks like weighted 4.3 is the cut-off where almost no one else gets in and she's just under 4.2. She's deciding between VT and JMU for financial safeties. But she prefers SLACS. She dreams about places like Grinnell and Carleton but they are reaches academically and financially.

Kalamazoo rose up as the most viable option for her from the CTCL schools-- great in her major for Phd production and jobs, financially stable (Forbes A-), good endowment (150k per capita),65 in USNWR National liberal arts ranking--a hair better than Wooster, great merit aid, great study abroad,good graduation rates etc. She likes the location. I think she might be more likely to stay in a science major if she's one of the top students. But I also wonder how getting a degree from a place like W&M would open opportunities that she'd have to fight for more if she graduated from a less known/prestigious school. The choices don't seem easy, so she's applying widely. For now she's decided against doing early decision at W&M because of finances. UVA now has a ED option so that will be a test of whether she's truly not that interested if she decides not to use it.

Anyway, I'm signing off-- any more info on our specific case would not be helpful to OP and I don't want to argue about quality of schools and why kids go to them. I'm middle of the road on the concept of CTCL schools, but found it helpful in our case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting, PP, but someone close to me did almost exactly what you just described with a science degree - from UVA.

Right, UVA where there are 16,000 undergraduates, the professors don’t know their students, small group tutorials taught by grad students and incredibly competitive atmosphere. I’ve got two there now. Their brother who went to a CTCL school got a much more personalized education, which is what was best for him. The 2 at Uva are happy but sometimes wonder if they would have been better off at a much smaller college.

Well, considering that your two at UVA attending a school where almost 90% of the students graduate in four years - much higher than any CTCL - I’d say it’s pretty obvious that the typical student is happier there than a CTCL school. Your kids are outliers.

PP you crack me up. You must be on this thread 24-7 to make sure you can come up with any retort possible to counter those of us who have had children attend a CTCL school. God forbid anyone say anything positive about CTCL. My 2 at UVA are supposed to be happy bc they and their peers have a 90% chance of grasping 4 years? My DC who attended the CTCL must be ecstatic since he graduated in 3.5 years! (Oh wait, now you’ll say he did that bc he was so miserable that he needed to get out ASAP!)

It’s not that. I just laugh at parents who compare their kids’ schools like this. How do you know which kid is getting a better education? It’s not like you’re going to class with them. And if your UVA kids are saying they wish they went CTCL, isn’t it likely that they’re just being nice to their sibling who couldn’t get into UVA?

You are a nasty crone. Did it every occur to you that someone may prefer a different environment? Are you that dense? Some people don't actually like UVA. It's ok. I don't know why you can't wrap your head around that.

[Anonymous]

PP I’m sure you know this but as a girl your child is disadvantaged at W&M admissions. Think carefully before not applying ED.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe I am reading a post from an in-state Virginia resident saying that that would rather have their kids go to a CTLC school instead of W&M. What a mistake.

My husband went to a big public school, top 25 in the USNWR. I went to a CTCL school. Same major. We both liked college and we both have PhDs now.

He will tell anyone who asks that he thinks my school provided a better education and he recommends CTCL colleges and their ilk to anyone who asks. Not for every kid, but for those who want a more personalized experience.

No one is saying that any school is ‘better’ than W&M or UVA. But the point, lost on you through 14 pages, is that college is not one size fits all and some people, obviously not you, might not WANT to go to the most prestigious college they get into. And, in some cases, some of these colleges might give some students a better education than some prestigious schools.

The only person speaking universally about any of this is you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting, PP, but someone close to me did almost exactly what you just described with a science degree - from UVA.

Right, UVA where there are 16,000 undergraduates, the professors don’t know their students, small group tutorials taught by grad students and incredibly competitive atmosphere. I’ve got two there now. Their brother who went to a CTCL school got a much more personalized education, which is what was best for him. The 2 at Uva are happy but sometimes wonder if they would have been better off at a much smaller college.

And Berkeley has 30K undergrad.
And UCLA has 32K undergrads
And Michigan has 30K underrgrads.

So what?

My rising four year at UVA most certainly knows his professors and they know him. He's now in seminars with 8 to 10 students. It was the professors' letters that got him the best internships in his field . . because the professors are names you would know. DS never once was taught by a grad student (once a grad student did initial grading on a paper but he has never been TAUGHT by a grad student. It's competitive if you want it to be. You can join a frat and slide, too, if you want.

[Anonymous]

I have one who just finished freshman year and another in HS and I will say that the hardest thing to do as a parent is to not get caught up in the prestige game. My older DC turned down several more "prestigious" options to go where he felt most at home. Freshman year was a raging success both academically and socially and I'm very proud of him for having the maturity to do what was right for him. I'm not saying that prestige doesn't play a part, but the most prestigious school is not necessarily the best place for your child to to grow. Fit and happiness matter as well when it comes to academic, and later professional, success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP I’m sure you know this but as a girl your child is disadvantaged at W&M admissions. Think carefully before not applying ED.

Yes, we know this. One possibility is that she could apply non-binding early action to Kalamazoo, get the merit aid offer. She can then decide if she really wants to attend and if not--or if merit aid doesn't come through as planned--apply EDII to W&M and RD UVA (along with others) when she will also likely have a higher GPA due to all her weighted courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP I’m sure you know this but as a girl your child is disadvantaged at W&M admissions. Think carefully before not applying ED.

Yes, we know this. One possibility is that she could apply non-binding early action to Kalamazoo, get the merit aid offer. She can then decide if she really wants to attend and if not--or if merit aid doesn't come through as planned--apply EDII to W&M.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe I am reading a post from an in-state Virginia resident saying that that would rather have their kids go to a CTLC school instead of W&M. What a mistake.

My husband went to a big public school, top 25 in the USNWR. I went to a CTCL school. Same major. We both liked college and we both have PhDs now.

He will tell anyone who asks that he thinks my school provided a better education and he recommends CTCL colleges and their ilk to anyone who asks. Not for every kid, but for those who want a more personalized experience.

No one is saying that any school is ‘better’ than W&M or UVA. But the point, lost on you through 14 pages, is that college is not one size fits all and some people, obviously not you, might not WANT to go to the most prestigious college they get into. And, in some cases, some of these colleges might give some students a better education than some prestigious schools.

The only person speaking universally about any of this is you.

This! Yes!

I am one of the PPs who wrote about my personal experience at one of the CTCL colleges. My spouse went to an Ivy.

How and where did we meet? While pursing the same advanced degree. At the same university.

Same result, different pathway.

My spouse is much more conventional than I am, and his traditional undergraduate experience was a good fit for him. My CTCL school was a better fit for my academic free-spiritedness. We each talk about how we would’ve withered at the other’s institution.


This idea of “fit” is a real thing.

[Anonymous]

P.S. I’m sure a response will be, “you just didn’t get into an Ivy, so you rationalized your decision to attend a CTCL school.”

I applied to four colleges and got into them all, including an Ivy. I just could not see myself there and happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting, PP, but someone close to me did almost exactly what you just described with a science degree - from UVA.

Right, UVA where there are 16,000 undergraduates, the professors don’t know their students, small group tutorials taught by grad students and incredibly competitive atmosphere. I’ve got two there now. Their brother who went to a CTCL school got a much more personalized education, which is what was best for him. The 2 at Uva are happy but sometimes wonder if they would have been better off at a much smaller college.

Well, considering that your two at UVA attending a school where almost 90% of the students graduate in four years - much higher than any CTCL - I’d say it’s pretty obvious that the typical student is happier there than a CTCL school. Your kids are outliers.

PP you crack me up. You must be on this thread 24-7 to make sure you can come up with any retort possible to counter those of us who have had children attend a CTCL school. God forbid anyone say anything positive about CTCL. My 2 at UVA are supposed to be happy bc they and their peers have a 90% chance of grasping 4 years? My DC who attended the CTCL must be ecstatic since he graduated in 3.5 years! (Oh wait, now you’ll say he did that bc he was so miserable that he needed to get out ASAP!)

It’s not that. I just laugh at parents who compare their kids’ schools like this. How do you know which kid is getting a better education? It’s not like you’re going to class with them. And if your UVA kids are saying they wish they went CTCL, isn’t it likely that they’re just being nice to their sibling who couldn’t get into UVA?

No. My oldest DC did not apply to a single college in Virginia even though we live in VA because he wanted to get far away from this area’s mentality. He did, however get into a couple top20 colleges that rejected or waitlisted his siblings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe I am reading a post from an in-state Virginia resident saying that that would rather have their kids go to a CTLC school instead of W&M. What a mistake.

My husband went to a big public school, top 25 in the USNWR. I went to a CTCL school. Same major. We both liked college and we both have PhDs now.

He will tell anyone who asks that he thinks my school provided a better education and he recommends CTCL colleges and their ilk to anyone who asks. Not for every kid, but for those who want a more personalized experience.

No one is saying that any school is ‘better’ than W&M or UVA. But the point, lost on you through 14 pages, is that college is not one size fits all and some people, obviously not you, might not WANT to go to the most prestigious college they get into. And, in some cases, some of these colleges might give some students a better education than some prestigious schools.

The only person speaking universally about any of this is you.

Wonderfully stated. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe I am reading a post from an in-state Virginia resident saying that that would rather have their kids go to a CTLC school instead of W&M. What a mistake.

My husband went to a big public school, top 25 in the USNWR. I went to a CTCL school. Same major. We both liked college and we both have PhDs now.

He will tell anyone who asks that he thinks my school provided a better education and he recommends CTCL colleges and their ilk to anyone who asks. Not for every kid, but for those who want a more personalized experience.

No one is saying that any school is ‘better’ than W&M or UVA. But the point, lost on you through 14 pages, is that college is not one size fits all and some people, obviously not you, might not WANT to go to the most prestigious college they get into. And, in some cases, some of these colleges might give some students a better education than some prestigious schools.

The only person speaking universally about any of this is you.

This! Yes!

I am one of the PPs who wrote about my personal experience at one of the CTCL colleges. My spouse went to an Ivy.

How and where did we meet? While pursing the same advanced degree. At the same university.

Same result, different pathway.

My spouse is much more conventional than I am, and his traditional undergraduate experience was a good fit for him. My CTCL school was a better fit for my academic free-spiritedness. We each talk about how we would’ve withered at the other’s institution.


This idea of “fit” is a real thing.

Same point could be made comparing a CTCL school to one that didn’t make the list, again making the point that the list is pointless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe I am reading a post from an in-state Virginia resident saying that that would rather have their kids go to a CTLC school instead of W&M. What a mistake.

Should students automatically go the highest ranked school they can get into, regardless of whether or not it's a good fit for them? That could end badly.

Most kids at my kid's CTCL couldn't get in to W&M. We didn't apply, and i could tell you he wouldn't have gotten in. But if he somehow had, we wouldn't have sent him, because W&M doesn't have the kinds of support he needs.

I'll also point out that instate, the cost of attendance at W&M is $37,389. With merit aid but not financial aid, our CTCL will cost exactly the same before adding on disability specific services, but my kid's not a particularly strong student (3.01 GPA, 23 ACT). The kids I know with stats anywhere close to W&M instate costs will pay far less at the CTCL.