“Colleges That Change Lives”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Visited a fair number of them in 2011-2012, so maybe some things have changed since then. Also, we found schools to be different from when the book was written.

Denison: Very preppy & beautiful campus, people on campus were dressed up compared to other schools. Seemed to have a lot of resources and Granville seemed like a cute and safe town. Ended up not applying because it too preppy for my daughter.
Knox: Nothing stood out about it - it seemed okay but it didn't seem to have a lot of resources (only okay aid for stats) and the town was kid of depressing.
St. John's (Maryland): My daughter liked the school, Annapolis is a great city close to home. It didn't seem very diverse though. It seemed great for a specific thing, great books. Ultimately my DD wanted more flexibility in her schedule and the ability to do research, so she didn't apply.
Puget Sound: Bigger, seemed to have less resources, more pre-professional, loved Tacoma, daughter ended not wanting to be so far away, great aid
Wooster: Daughter really liked, really friendly, lots of normal kids, great aid
Kalamazoo: Generally liked, cool city, lots of resources, great aid, a little too Michigan student heavy
Reed: Great city & campus, strong academics, daughter liked it but decided it was too intense/kids seemed a little too out there, but the biggest kicker was no aid

Retrospectively, she wishes she would have looked at Whitman too.

Very interesting. We visited Denison and got the same preppy vibe, but I keep reading that that's supposed to be changing. Thanks for posting, PP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is my issue with the CTCL organization: Its board is made up of mostly of reps from the schools it promotes. Its income consists of membership (marketing) fees from the schools it promotes. As a non-profit organization, its “services” consist of paying one person to go around the country and promote these schools. There is nothing amazingly different about most of these schools from the hundreds of other schools out there. Some are quite good but many are struggling financially and there are many with horrible graduation rates. Schools should be considered on an individual basis, not because they are part of an irrelevant list.

+1. CTCL feeds into the insecurity of parents whose kids can't get into Tier 1.

Another way to look at this: it lets people know there are more than 20 good colleges on the planet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is my issue with the CTCL organization: Its board is made up of mostly of reps from the schools it promotes. Its income consists of membership (marketing) fees from the schools it promotes. As a non-profit organization, its “services” consist of paying one person to go around the country and promote these schools. There is nothing amazingly different about most of these schools from the hundreds of other schools out there. Some are quite good but many are struggling financially and there are many with horrible graduation rates. Schools should be considered on an individual basis, not because they are part of an irrelevant list.

+1. CTCL feeds into the insecurity of parents whose kids can't get into Tier 1.

Another way to look at this: it lets people know there are more than 20 good colleges on the planet.

It's just a marketing gimmick now

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is my issue with the CTCL organization: Its board is made up of mostly of reps from the schools it promotes. Its income consists of membership (marketing) fees from the schools it promotes. As a non-profit organization, its “services” consist of paying one person to go around the country and promote these schools. There is nothing amazingly different about most of these schools from the hundreds of other schools out there. Some are quite good but many are struggling financially and there are many with horrible graduation rates. Schools should be considered on an individual basis, not because they are part of an irrelevant list.

+1. CTCL feeds into the insecurity of parents whose kids can't get into Tier 1.

No, this misses the point. Schools should be considered on an individual basis, not because they are part of some list...whether that list is USN&WR top 20 or CTCL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is my issue with the CTCL organization: Its board is made up of mostly of reps from the schools it promotes. Its income consists of membership (marketing) fees from the schools it promotes. As a non-profit organization, its “services” consist of paying one person to go around the country and promote these schools. There is nothing amazingly different about most of these schools from the hundreds of other schools out there. Some are quite good but many are struggling financially and there are many with horrible graduation rates. Schools should be considered on an individual basis, not because they are part of an irrelevant list.

+1. CTCL feeds into the insecurity of parents whose kids can't get into Tier 1.

Another way to look at this: it lets people know there are more than 20 good colleges on the planet.

It's just a marketing gimmick now

All schools market themselves. Why hate on this small group? Their message is: We are great colleges that are easier to get into and possibly far less money, and we will still position your kid for success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is my issue with the CTCL organization: Its board is made up of mostly of reps from the schools it promotes. Its income consists of membership (marketing) fees from the schools it promotes. As a non-profit organization, its “services” consist of paying one person to go around the country and promote these schools. There is nothing amazingly different about most of these schools from the hundreds of other schools out there. Some are quite good but many are struggling financially and there are many with horrible graduation rates. Schools should be considered on an individual basis, not because they are part of an irrelevant list.

+1. CTCL feeds into the insecurity of parents whose kids can't get into Tier 1.

Another way to look at this: it lets people know there are more than 20 good colleges on the planet.

There are many, such as GMU, JMU, VCU... All of which I'd send my kids to before shelling out for some of the overpriced dumps in CTCL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is my issue with the CTCL organization: Its board is made up of mostly of reps from the schools it promotes. Its income consists of membership (marketing) fees from the schools it promotes. As a non-profit organization, its “services” consist of paying one person to go around the country and promote these schools. There is nothing amazingly different about most of these schools from the hundreds of other schools out there. Some are quite good but many are struggling financially and there are many with horrible graduation rates. Schools should be considered on an individual basis, not because they are part of an irrelevant list.

+1. CTCL feeds into the insecurity of parents whose kids can't get into Tier 1.

Another way to look at this: it lets people know there are more than 20 good colleges on the planet.

It's just a marketing gimmick now

All schools market themselves. Why hate on this small group? Their message is: We are great colleges that are easier to get into and possibly far less money, and we will still position your kid for success.

Because they're NOT a small group at all. They're separate institutions with nothing in common other than that they're all small schools and in the same book. That doesn't make them special.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is my issue with the CTCL organization: Its board is made up of mostly of reps from the schools it promotes. Its income consists of membership (marketing) fees from the schools it promotes. As a non-profit organization, its “services” consist of paying one person to go around the country and promote these schools. There is nothing amazingly different about most of these schools from the hundreds of other schools out there. Some are quite good but many are struggling financially and there are many with horrible graduation rates. Schools should be considered on an individual basis, not because they are part of an irrelevant list.

+1. CTCL feeds into the insecurity of parents whose kids can't get into Tier 1.

Another way to look at this: it lets people know there are more than 20 good colleges on the planet.

There are many, such as GMU, JMU, VCU... All of which I'd send my kids to before shelling out for some of the overpriced dumps in CTCL.

+1. Never in a million years would I pay more to send a kid to a CTCL school over a Virginia state school. It makes no sense. By every quantifiable variable, including graduation rates, it's not worth the extra money.

[Anonymous]

Went to Reed. Intense and wonderful academics. Subsequent T14 law school was a breeze in comparison. Have nothing to compare it to, as I never went elsewhere, but definitely saw some kids from some very fancy undergrads who seemed like they were struggling to adjust to the intensity of law school.

People are a little weird, but that suited me fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is my issue with the CTCL organization: Its board is made up of mostly of reps from the schools it promotes. Its income consists of membership (marketing) fees from the schools it promotes. As a non-profit organization, its “services” consist of paying one person to go around the country and promote these schools. There is nothing amazingly different about most of these schools from the hundreds of other schools out there. Some are quite good but many are struggling financially and there are many with horrible graduation rates. Schools should be considered on an individual basis, not because they are part of an irrelevant list.

+1. CTCL feeds into the insecurity of parents whose kids can't get into Tier 1.

Another way to look at this: it lets people know there are more than 20 good colleges on the planet.

It's just a marketing gimmick now

All schools market themselves. Why hate on this small group? Their message is: We are great colleges that are easier to get into and possibly far less money, and we will still position your kid for success.

Because they're NOT a small group at all. They're separate institutions with nothing in common other than that they're all small schools and in the same book. That doesn't make them special.

From the website:

CTCL is dedicated to the advancement and support of a student-centered college search process.

The Colleges That Change Lives, Inc. (CTCL) story begins in 1996 when a book by the same name — Colleges That Change Lives — was published by retired New York Times education editor and journalist Loren Pope. A longtime student advocate and independent college counselor, Mr. Pope sought to change the way people thought about colleges by dispelling popularly held myths and challenging the conventional wisdom about college choice. His groundbreaking ideals were welcomed by students and the college counseling community alike. As a result, many of the colleges featured in the book began working together to further promote this philosophy of a student-centered college search.

Doesn't sound like they claim they are special. Sounds like they claim they are right for some kids and all the other college search materials focus on rankings and the like. That's a weird thing to hate IMHO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is my issue with the CTCL organization: Its board is made up of mostly of reps from the schools it promotes. Its income consists of membership (marketing) fees from the schools it promotes. As a non-profit organization, its “services” consist of paying one person to go around the country and promote these schools. There is nothing amazingly different about most of these schools from the hundreds of other schools out there. Some are quite good but many are struggling financially and there are many with horrible graduation rates. Schools should be considered on an individual basis, not because they are part of an irrelevant list.

+1. CTCL feeds into the insecurity of parents whose kids can't get into Tier 1.

Another way to look at this: it lets people know there are more than 20 good colleges on the planet.

It's just a marketing gimmick now

All schools market themselves. Why hate on this small group? Their message is: We are great colleges that are easier to get into and possibly far less money, and we will still position your kid for success.

Because they're NOT a small group at all. They're separate institutions with nothing in common other than that they're all small schools and in the same book. That doesn't make them special.

From the website:

CTCL is dedicated to the advancement and support of a student-centered college search process.

The Colleges That Change Lives, Inc. (CTCL) story begins in 1996 when a book by the same name — Colleges That Change Lives — was published by retired New York Times education editor and journalist Loren Pope. A longtime student advocate and independent college counselor, Mr. Pope sought to change the way people thought about colleges by dispelling popularly held myths and challenging the conventional wisdom about college choice. His groundbreaking ideals were welcomed by students and the college counseling community alike. As a result, many of the colleges featured in the book began working together to further promote this philosophy of a student-centered college search.

Doesn't sound like they claim they are special. Sounds like they claim they are right for some kids and all the other college search materials focus on rankings and the like. That's a weird thing to hate IMHO.

Yes - this poster has an ax to grind for some reason with these schools. Not sure why she picks on them or their marketing. A number of schools group themselves together and go on the road to market themselves when they feel there's a similar audience. We just recently went to "8 of the Best" which consisted of Kenyon, Grinnell, Sarah Lawrence, and some others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Went to Reed. Intense and wonderful academics. Subsequent T14 law school was a breeze in comparison. Have nothing to compare it to, as I never went elsewhere, but definitely saw some kids from some very fancy undergrads who seemed like they were struggling to adjust to the intensity of law school.

People are a little weird, but that suited me fine.

Reed is first tier. It doesn't even belong in the book.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is my issue with the CTCL organization: Its board is made up of mostly of reps from the schools it promotes. Its income consists of membership (marketing) fees from the schools it promotes. As a non-profit organization, its “services” consist of paying one person to go around the country and promote these schools. There is nothing amazingly different about most of these schools from the hundreds of other schools out there. Some are quite good but many are struggling financially and there are many with horrible graduation rates. Schools should be considered on an individual basis, not because they are part of an irrelevant list.

+1. CTCL feeds into the insecurity of parents whose kids can't get into Tier 1.

Another way to look at this: it lets people know there are more than 20 good colleges on the planet.

It's just a marketing gimmick now

All schools market themselves. Why hate on this small group? Their message is: We are great colleges that are easier to get into and possibly far less money, and we will still position your kid for success.

Because they're NOT a small group at all. They're separate institutions with nothing in common other than that they're all small schools and in the same book. That doesn't make them special.

From the website:

CTCL is dedicated to the advancement and support of a student-centered college search process.

The Colleges That Change Lives, Inc. (CTCL) story begins in 1996 when a book by the same name — Colleges That Change Lives — was published by retired New York Times education editor and journalist Loren Pope. A longtime student advocate and independent college counselor, Mr. Pope sought to change the way people thought about colleges by dispelling popularly held myths and challenging the conventional wisdom about college choice. His groundbreaking ideals were welcomed by students and the college counseling community alike. As a result, many of the colleges featured in the book began working together to further promote this philosophy of a student-centered college search.

Doesn't sound like they claim they are special. Sounds like they claim they are right for some kids and all the other college search materials focus on rankings and the like. That's a weird thing to hate IMHO.

Working together to promote THEMSELVES, that is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is my issue with the CTCL organization: Its board is made up of mostly of reps from the schools it promotes. Its income consists of membership (marketing) fees from the schools it promotes. As a non-profit organization, its “services” consist of paying one person to go around the country and promote these schools. There is nothing amazingly different about most of these schools from the hundreds of other schools out there. Some are quite good but many are struggling financially and there are many with horrible graduation rates. Schools should be considered on an individual basis, not because they are part of an irrelevant list.

+1. CTCL feeds into the insecurity of parents whose kids can't get into Tier 1.

Another way to look at this: it lets people know there are more than 20 good colleges on the planet.

It's just a marketing gimmick now

All schools market themselves. Why hate on this small group? Their message is: We are great colleges that are easier to get into and possibly far less money, and we will still position your kid for success.

Because they're NOT a small group at all. They're separate institutions with nothing in common other than that they're all small schools and in the same book. That doesn't make them special.

From the website:

CTCL is dedicated to the advancement and support of a student-centered college search process.

The Colleges That Change Lives, Inc. (CTCL) story begins in 1996 when a book by the same name — Colleges That Change Lives — was published by retired New York Times education editor and journalist Loren Pope. A longtime student advocate and independent college counselor, Mr. Pope sought to change the way people thought about colleges by dispelling popularly held myths and challenging the conventional wisdom about college choice. His groundbreaking ideals were welcomed by students and the college counseling community alike. As a result, many of the colleges featured in the book began working together to further promote this philosophy of a student-centered college search.

Doesn't sound like they claim they are special. Sounds like they claim they are right for some kids and all the other college search materials focus on rankings and the like. That's a weird thing to hate IMHO.

Yes - this poster has an ax to grind for some reason with these schools. Not sure why she picks on them or their marketing. A number of schools group themselves together and go on the road to market themselves when they feel there's a similar audience. We just recently went to "8 of the Best" which consisted of Kenyon, Grinnell, Sarah Lawrence, and some others.

The difference is that they ARE "8 of the best." CTCL are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Went to Reed. Intense and wonderful academics. Subsequent T14 law school was a breeze in comparison. Have nothing to compare it to, as I never went elsewhere, but definitely saw some kids from some very fancy undergrads who seemed like they were struggling to adjust to the intensity of law school.

People are a little weird, but that suited me fine.

Reed is first tier. It doesn't even belong in the book.

Agreed