Subtle signs of class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They don’t talk about money.

Kids have surnames for names.

They never seem ruffled. Any problem is solvable and they have a family safety net.

Not overly concerned with organic food, toys, clothes, etc.

Will offer you an alcoholic beverage any time of day you pop by.

This is pretty much the only accurate description in this entire thread. The surnames can be middle names.

My child has multiple English surnames for middle names (they're all family names).

So only white people can be upper class?

It's almost like class is one of multiple ways powerful white people have justified holding on to power historically

It seems like a curiously outdated criteria in an increasingly global society.

+ 1

People in this thread are definitely conflating stereotypes about Old Money New England WASP types with class. Which is laughable and says all you need to know about the poster's class background (i.e. they themselves are MC to UMC at best and are just pretending to know anything about how really rich people live).

DP. Like it or not, this has been the mainstream standard for generations and still is to many people. Until the modern-day equivalent of Paul Fussell (sociologist who wrote about old money) comes along and redefines what it means to “have class,” this will likely continue to be the definition in most peoples’ minds. Note the definition is more about a way of life (attitudes towards money, houses) than about money per se. It may seem narrow nowadays. But so far, nobody has identified a set of attitudes and lifestyles that are common to the new global elite (monied or not). If you can, then maybe you should write that book.

They actually have. Go ahead and google it yourself, I’m not going to do your hw for you. Just realize you sound ignorant.

One thing is certain. Being a rude jerk online, like this poster, is the opposite of any old or new definition of “class.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The middle class man is marked by class insecurity, and can be identified by his constant attempts to not look working class. The word that most defines the MC man is "terrified". A middle class mom, for example, would be afraid to dress her child in a graphic T for fear that it would misidentify them as WC and therefore be barred from the Montessori school they're planning to afford by foregoing vacations and home maintenance.

Middle class decor is impersonal, the ideal state is to look like a Pottery Barn store. MC adults attempt to be current but understated. They shop at Banana Republic Factory and Ann Taylor Factory, along with TJ Maxx.

The MC lacks time and therefore they have limited entertainment outlets. Watching sports, premium channel television shows, and perhaps a zumba class. The MC woman who is brave may try a boutique studio like soulcycle or a yoga studio, but is worried about fitting in, wearing the right thing, and keeping up so prefers to just go to a class at the gym. MC families are very concerned the class implications of the food they eat and like to say they wouldn't ever go to McDonalds. However, they tend to be overweight.

The MC usually has relatively generous vacation time, although it is decreasing and is no longer a reliable class indicator. Vacations include beach vacations and disney. Aspirational trips are Ireland, Italy, and Iceland. The MC avoid France, except Paris, because they don't want to be seen as "ugly Americans". While on travel the MC try to fit in due to class insecurity and a belief that Americans are less sophisticated. The MC are terrified of cruises because they believe they will be seen as downwardly mobile.

The MC do not make practical financial decisions about college. They will send little Aiden to the best college possible-- defined by US News and World Report, and will take out large loans for the best name. They will send their child to a 4 year college and would be terrified of the class implications of a community college, or, God forbid, the military.

So I think I'm MC ($250K HHI in the DC area). My entire friend circle is in a similar income bracket. The only thing I relate to is the Pottery Barn thing. I love Pottery Barn. And gray. All the gray everything. To me what you describe sounds like WC...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They don’t talk about money.

Kids have surnames for names.

They never seem ruffled. Any problem is solvable and they have a family safety net.

Not overly concerned with organic food, toys, clothes, etc.

Will offer you an alcoholic beverage any time of day you pop by.

This is pretty much the only accurate description in this entire thread. The surnames can be middle names.

My child has multiple English surnames for middle names (they're all family names).

So only white people can be upper class?

It's almost like class is one of multiple ways powerful white people have justified holding on to power historically

It seems like a curiously outdated criteria in an increasingly global society.

+ 1

People in this thread are definitely conflating stereotypes about Old Money New England WASP types with class. Which is laughable and says all you need to know about the poster's class background (i.e. they themselves are MC to UMC at best and are just pretending to know anything about how really rich people live).

DP. Like it or not, this has been the mainstream standard for generations and still is to many people. Until the modern-day equivalent of Paul Fussell (sociologist who wrote about old money) comes along and redefines what it means to “have class,” this will likely continue to be the definition in most peoples’ minds. Note the definition is more about a way of life (attitudes towards money, houses) than about money per se. It may seem narrow nowadays. But so far, nobody has identified a set of attitudes and lifestyles that are common to the new global elite (monied or not). If you can, then maybe you should write that book.

They actually have. Go ahead and google it yourself, I’m not going to do your hw for you. Just realize you sound ignorant.

One thing is certain. Being a rude jerk online, like this poster, is the opposite of any old or new definition of “class.”

Yeah, I'm guessing classy people aren't arguing with strangers on DCUM. How's it feel to be down here with the rest of us peasants?

[Anonymous]

As requested:

The UMC man is class secure and therefore has greater range for personal expression than the MC. The current trend of dandy socks, for example, originated in the UMC before being emulated by the lower classes. UMC men are now wearing slightly mismatched prints on their suits, high top leather dress shoes/boots, and other indicators that the man has panache. The UMC woman will also take more license in her clothing than the more timid MC woman. She may wear a sheath dress with her lithe, toned arms serving as the actual fashion statement. She will not be as concerned about "looking professional" as about being stylish, although she manages to both. UMC women are less likely to have polished nails and their hair, in its ideal state, has its natural color and appears slightly undone.

The UMC places great emphasis on knowledge and learning, and this extends far beyond schooling. Their kids will be well travelled and exposed to events, people, and institutions that serve to broaden their perspective or whet their curiosity. For example, they may have their friend who works at an innovative company like google arrange for a tour, or take their kids to see how gouda cheese is made at a dairy in Holland.

The UMC man has a hobby- skiing, flying Cessnas, or sailing are preferred. The women are fit and may ski, run, or use a boutique like orangetheory. They likely have involvement in civic activities.

UMC has the most adventurous palate of the classes, preferring to consume cultural knowledge in food format. They have tried every cuisine. At the moment, the UMC has a crush on America and wants to eat it in all forms- Hawaiian, Californian, Cajun, Southern, BBQ, etc. Preferably whilst listening to distinctly American music like jazz or the blues- and the most class secure are experimenting with country and honky tonk. The UMC now prefers California wine over French, and the kost secure are in the midst of discovering the joy of sparkling wine. Cab and pinot are becoming a bit passe, unless the latter is from Oregon. So, Zinfandel is on the rise. The UMC also adores craft beer, whiskey, and tequila.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As requested:

The UMC man is class secure and therefore has greater range for personal expression than the MC. The current trend of dandy socks, for example, originated in the UMC before being emulated by the lower classes. UMC men are now wearing slightly mismatched prints on their suits, high top leather dress shoes/boots, and other indicators that the man has panache. The UMC woman will also take more license in her clothing than the more timid MC woman. She may wear a sheath dress with her lithe, toned arms serving as the actual fashion statement. She will not be as concerned about "looking professional" as about being stylish, although she manages to both. UMC women are less likely to have polished nails and their hair, in its ideal state, has its natural color and appears slightly undone.

The UMC places great emphasis on knowledge and learning, and this extends far beyond schooling. Their kids will be well travelled and exposed to events, people, and institutions that serve to broaden their perspective or whet their curiosity. For example, they may have their friend who works at an innovative company like google arrange for a tour, or take their kids to see how gouda cheese is made at a dairy in Holland.

The UMC man has a hobby- skiing, flying Cessnas, or sailing are preferred. The women are fit and may ski, run, or use a boutique like orangetheory. They likely have involvement in civic activities.

UMC has the most adventurous palate of the classes, preferring to consume cultural knowledge in food format. They have tried every cuisine. At the moment, the UMC has a crush on America and wants to eat it in all forms- Hawaiian, Californian, Cajun, Southern, BBQ, etc. Preferably whilst listening to distinctly American music like jazz or the blues- and the most class secure are experimenting with country and honky tonk. The UMC now prefers California wine over French, and the kost secure are in the midst of discovering the joy of sparkling wine. Cab and pinot are becoming a bit passe, unless the latter is from Oregon. So, Zinfandel is on the rise. The UMC also adores craft beer, whiskey, and tequila.

omg this is so stupid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As requested:

The UMC man is class secure and therefore has greater range for personal expression than the MC. The current trend of dandy socks, for example, originated in the UMC before being emulated by the lower classes. UMC men are now wearing slightly mismatched prints on their suits, high top leather dress shoes/boots, and other indicators that the man has panache. The UMC woman will also take more license in her clothing than the more timid MC woman. She may wear a sheath dress with her lithe, toned arms serving as the actual fashion statement. She will not be as concerned about "looking professional" as about being stylish, although she manages to both. UMC women are less likely to have polished nails and their hair, in its ideal state, has its natural color and appears slightly undone.

The UMC places great emphasis on knowledge and learning, and this extends far beyond schooling. Their kids will be well travelled and exposed to events, people, and institutions that serve to broaden their perspective or whet their curiosity. For example, they may have their friend who works at an innovative company like google arrange for a tour, or take their kids to see how gouda cheese is made at a dairy in Holland.

The UMC man has a hobby- skiing, flying Cessnas, or sailing are preferred. The women are fit and may ski, run, or use a boutique like orangetheory. They likely have involvement in civic activities.

UMC has the most adventurous palate of the classes, preferring to consume cultural knowledge in food format. They have tried every cuisine. At the moment, the UMC has a crush on America and wants to eat it in all forms- Hawaiian, Californian, Cajun, Southern, BBQ, etc. Preferably whilst listening to distinctly American music like jazz or the blues- and the most class secure are experimenting with country and honky tonk. The UMC now prefers California wine over French, and the kost secure are in the midst of discovering the joy of sparkling wine. Cab and pinot are becoming a bit passe, unless the latter is from Oregon. So, Zinfandel is on the rise. The UMC also adores craft beer, whiskey, and tequila.

omg this is so stupid

Said the low-class (pick your definition) loser.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What are some things you notice in homes that indicate social class? I don’t mean income level, more a sense of social standing. Do you think differently about families with books and a piano in their living room than, say, a big tv and bar cart?

Yes. Is a bar cart bad? That one I didn't know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a big tv is okay, just not over the fireplace. No video game consoles, gamers are lazy.

I hate big TVs, but, honestly, where do you put it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Original art, furniture of many different vintages tastefully assembled (never any matching sets and some things more well-worn than others), extremely high quality rugs (again, possibly some more worn and some newer) are the things I can think of that distinguish old money and new money.

Realize I'm taking this in a slightly different direction, but where do you buy extremely high quality Persian rugs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are some things you notice in homes that indicate social class? I don’t mean income level, more a sense of social standing. Do you think differently about families with books and a piano in their living room than, say, a big tv and bar cart?

Yes. Is a bar cart bad? That one I didn't know.

Those fake antique tea caddies with a separate little cubby for each of the big conglomerate’s different types of tea bags are low class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Original art, furniture of many different vintages tastefully assembled (never any matching sets and some things more well-worn than others), extremely high quality rugs (again, possibly some more worn and some newer) are the things I can think of that distinguish old money and new money.

Realize I'm taking this in a slightly different direction, but where do you buy extremely high quality Persian rugs?

DP. Unfortunately, it’s best if you inherited all this stuff. A few years ago there was a stupid spat in Britain where one politician (or was he a tastemaker?) accused another of buying his own antiques, the horror.

That said, every family has to start somewhere, so why don’t you be the one and just let people assume you inherited it all. Just do a lot of research on what makes a “good” oriental rug (natural fibers and dyes, not brand new, traditional colors, and learn to recognize the fakes). Even the best rug stores carry some cheesy rugs because they do sell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Small kitchen, lots of guest rooms, old American cars with some dirt on them. Persian rugs obtained by an older relative whist traveling in Iraq or Yemen in the early 1900s. Vacations include things like helicopter trips to hunt moose or elk, or expeditions on camel with Bedouins. Art includes antiquities, framed handwritten poems signed by Maya Angelou, and mounted heads of animals killed while hunting.

This is mighty specific

I can be more general. The rich prefer their houses out of sight, either by an out of the way location or set back behind trees or a high wall of shrubbery. Although a gate or other structural features might be visible, the house will be primarily surrounded by natural features. The house itself will be made of high quality materials (brick, marble, etc) and there is a strong preference for old wood flooring. The house will retain original features, and great care is taken to retain original finishings. The house is built with entertainment in mind, so the larger rooms are for dining and socializing. Since the rich are served, the kitchen is small, spartan, and outdated.

The rich enjoy an occasional elaborate meal, but usually eat sparingly and tend toward healthy comfort food. Lunch may consist of a tomato soup with fresh cream and basil, or a salad. Breakfast is a bowl of oatmeal or eggs. Dinner may be larger but usually classic- a pan seared steak, cooked in butter. Or grilled salmon. Grilled veggies on the side.

Alcohol abounds but is, like food, driven by comfort and familiarity. The table wine tends to be the same at each meal and is a familiar brand of high quality wine (caymus, opus one) or more likely, a boutique wine with qhom the family has developed a client like relationship and from whom the family buys in bulk. No sweet alcohol, no fruity cocktails, and absolutely no wines made from fruits other than grapes.

The rich dress in layers and the layers are colorful. A rich man does not use a white undershirt in his off time, he wears something more striking. He gets extra points with multiple layers. His entire wardrobe is built for xomfort- this is seen mostly in the exceptional quality of the materials, which are natural.

The rich appreciate authenticity in all forms. They want to look a fish in the eye when they eat it, they want their tacos from a truck where all the day laborers eat. They want to learn salsa dancing while in their summer in Colombia and experience the exhilarating humiliation of a Turkish bathhouse. Therefore they do not prefer to interact only with other rich people because that would deprive them of the fullness of the human condition. A Michelin rated restaurant might have more reliable quality, but the rich love neighborhood gems even more.

The rich love hygge. They love fire and candles, water glistening in the moonlight, and music played slightly too softly.

The rich pursue education in order to improve their conversation skills, not to learn a skill. Unless the skill is fun, like being a pilot or an archeologist. Under no circumstances does a rich man adorn his car with a bumper sticker of his alma mater.

I agree with this. Also organic food. Although they never talk about it. There is so much the rich never talk about.

Yes. Yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are some things you notice in homes that indicate social class? I don’t mean income level, more a sense of social standing. Do you think differently about families with books and a piano in their living room than, say, a big tv and bar cart?

Yes. Is a bar cart bad? That one I didn't know.

A built-in is better, in its own little cubby with a small sink.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Small kitchen, lots of guest rooms, old American cars with some dirt on them. Persian rugs obtained by an older relative whist traveling in Iraq or Yemen in the early 1900s. Vacations include things like helicopter trips to hunt moose or elk, or expeditions on camel with Bedouins. Art includes antiquities, framed handwritten poems signed by Maya Angelou, and mounted heads of animals killed while hunting.

This is mighty specific

I can be more general. The rich prefer their houses out of sight, either by an out of the way location or set back behind trees or a high wall of shrubbery. Although a gate or other structural features might be visible, the house will be primarily surrounded by natural features. The house itself will be made of high quality materials (brick, marble, etc) and there is a strong preference for old wood flooring. The house will retain original features, and great care is taken to retain original finishings. The house is built with entertainment in mind, so the larger rooms are for dining and socializing. Since the rich are served, the kitchen is small, spartan, and outdated.

The rich enjoy an occasional elaborate meal, but usually eat sparingly and tend toward healthy comfort food. Lunch may consist of a tomato soup with fresh cream and basil, or a salad. Breakfast is a bowl of oatmeal or eggs. Dinner may be larger but usually classic- a pan seared steak, cooked in butter. Or grilled salmon. Grilled veggies on the side.

Alcohol abounds but is, like food, driven by comfort and familiarity. The table wine tends to be the same at each meal and is a familiar brand of high quality wine (caymus, opus one) or more likely, a boutique wine with qhom the family has developed a client like relationship and from whom the family buys in bulk. No sweet alcohol, no fruity cocktails, and absolutely no wines made from fruits other than grapes.

The rich dress in layers and the layers are colorful. A rich man does not use a white undershirt in his off time, he wears something more striking. He gets extra points with multiple layers. His entire wardrobe is built for xomfort- this is seen mostly in the exceptional quality of the materials, which are natural.

The rich appreciate authenticity in all forms. They want to look a fish in the eye when they eat it, they want their tacos from a truck where all the day laborers eat. They want to learn salsa dancing while in their summer in Colombia and experience the exhilarating humiliation of a Turkish bathhouse. Therefore they do not prefer to interact only with other rich people because that would deprive them of the fullness of the human condition. A Michelin rated restaurant might have more reliable quality, but the rich love neighborhood gems even more.

The rich love hygge. They love fire and candles, water glistening in the moonlight, and music played slightly too softly.

The rich pursue education in order to improve their conversation skills, not to learn a skill. Unless the skill is fun, like being a pilot or an archeologist. Under no circumstances does a rich man adorn his car with a bumper sticker of his alma mater.

I agree with this. Also organic food. Although they never talk about it. There is so much the rich never talk about.

Yes. Yes.

They don't talk about it because it is a given. They talk about how they love getting their produce from such and such farm, because the cabbage is so fragrant and they have an excellent variety of tomatoes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As requested:

The UMC man is class secure and therefore has greater range for personal expression than the MC. The current trend of dandy socks, for example, originated in the UMC before being emulated by the lower classes. UMC men are now wearing slightly mismatched prints on their suits, high top leather dress shoes/boots, and other indicators that the man has panache. The UMC woman will also take more license in her clothing than the more timid MC woman. She may wear a sheath dress with her lithe, toned arms serving as the actual fashion statement. She will not be as concerned about "looking professional" as about being stylish, although she manages to both. UMC women are less likely to have polished nails and their hair, in its ideal state, has its natural color and appears slightly undone.

The UMC places great emphasis on knowledge and learning, and this extends far beyond schooling. Their kids will be well travelled and exposed to events, people, and institutions that serve to broaden their perspective or whet their curiosity. For example, they may have their friend who works at an innovative company like google arrange for a tour, or take their kids to see how gouda cheese is made at a dairy in Holland.

The UMC man has a hobby- skiing, flying Cessnas, or sailing are preferred. The women are fit and may ski, run, or use a boutique like orangetheory. They likely have involvement in civic activities.

UMC has the most adventurous palate of the classes, preferring to consume cultural knowledge in food format. They have tried every cuisine. At the moment, the UMC has a crush on America and wants to eat it in all forms- Hawaiian, Californian, Cajun, Southern, BBQ, etc. Preferably whilst listening to distinctly American music like jazz or the blues- and the most class secure are experimenting with country and honky tonk. The UMC now prefers California wine over French, and the kost secure are in the midst of discovering the joy of sparkling wine. Cab and pinot are becoming a bit passe, unless the latter is from Oregon. So, Zinfandel is on the rise. The UMC also adores craft beer, whiskey, and tequila.

omg this is so stupid

Said the low-class (pick your definition) loser.

really