Subtle signs of class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They don’t talk about money.

Kids have surnames for names.

They never seem ruffled. Any problem is solvable and they have a family safety net.

Not overly concerned with organic food, toys, clothes, etc.

Will offer you an alcoholic beverage any time of day you pop by.

This is pretty much the only accurate description in this entire thread. The surnames can be middle names.

My child has multiple English surnames for middle names (they're all family names).

So only white people can be upper class?

It's almost like class is one of multiple ways powerful white people have justified holding on to power historically

It seems like a curiously outdated criteria in an increasingly global society.

+ 1

People in this thread are definitely conflating stereotypes about Old Money New England WASP types with class. Which is laughable and says all you need to know about the poster's class background (i.e. they themselves are MC to UMC at best and are just pretending to know anything about how really rich people live).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Subtle signs of upper class living would be household staff - you realize later they have a nanny, housekeeper, night nannies, and personal chef. Those 3 alone would cost at least $150k if more or less full time. Being discreet about going on holidays, about kids having horses and riding lessons, summer house somewhere fancy, the musical instrument parents bought a 12 year old that is a professional level $15,000 flute because why not, inherited jewelry and watches that are timeless because $$$, because none of it is a big deal to them - but they’ve been taught to be discreet about things.

I’m pp and yes! Discreet. This is my family but you would never know it.

LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The middle class man is marked by class insecurity, and can be identified by his constant attempts to not look working class. The word that most defines the MC man is "terrified". A middle class mom, for example, would be afraid to dress her child in a graphic T for fear that it would misidentify them as WC and therefore be barred from the Montessori school they're planning to afford by foregoing vacations and home maintenance.

Middle class decor is impersonal, the ideal state is to look like a Pottery Barn store. MC adults attempt to be current but understated. They shop at Banana Republic Factory and Ann Taylor Factory, along with TJ Maxx.

The MC lacks time and therefore they have limited entertainment outlets. Watching sports, premium channel television shows, and perhaps a zumba class. The MC woman who is brave may try a boutique studio like soulcycle or a yoga studio, but is worried about fitting in, wearing the right thing, and keeping up so prefers to just go to a class at the gym. MC families are very concerned the class implications of the food they eat and like to say they wouldn't ever go to McDonalds. However, they tend to be overweight.

The MC usually has relatively generous vacation time, although it is decreasing and is no longer a reliable class indicator. Vacations include beach vacations and disney. Aspirational trips are Ireland, Italy, and Iceland. The MC avoid France, except Paris, because they don't want to be seen as "ugly Americans". While on travel the MC try to fit in due to class insecurity and a belief that Americans are less sophisticated. The MC are terrified of cruises because they believe they will be seen as downwardly mobile.

The MC do not make practical financial decisions about college. They will send little Aiden to the best college possible-- defined by US News and World Report, and will take out large loans for the best name. They will send their child to a 4 year college and would be terrified of the class implications of a community college, or, God forbid, the military.

I like the way you write! Tell us about UMC people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The middle class man is marked by class insecurity, and can be identified by his constant attempts to not look working class. The word that most defines the MC man is "terrified". A middle class mom, for example, would be afraid to dress her child in a graphic T for fear that it would misidentify them as WC and therefore be barred from the Montessori school they're planning to afford by foregoing vacations and home maintenance.

Middle class decor is impersonal, the ideal state is to look like a Pottery Barn store. MC adults attempt to be current but understated. They shop at Banana Republic Factory and Ann Taylor Factory, along with TJ Maxx.

The MC lacks time and therefore they have limited entertainment outlets. Watching sports, premium channel television shows, and perhaps a zumba class. The MC woman who is brave may try a boutique studio like soulcycle or a yoga studio, but is worried about fitting in, wearing the right thing, and keeping up so prefers to just go to a class at the gym. MC families are very concerned the class implications of the food they eat and like to say they wouldn't ever go to McDonalds. However, they tend to be overweight.

The MC usually has relatively generous vacation time, although it is decreasing and is no longer a reliable class indicator. Vacations include beach vacations and disney. Aspirational trips are Ireland, Italy, and Iceland. The MC avoid France, except Paris, because they don't want to be seen as "ugly Americans". While on travel the MC try to fit in due to class insecurity and a belief that Americans are less sophisticated. The MC are terrified of cruises because they believe they will be seen as downwardly mobile.

The MC do not make practical financial decisions about college. They will send little Aiden to the best college possible-- defined by US News and World Report, and will take out large loans for the best name. They will send their child to a 4 year college and would be terrified of the class implications of a community college, or, God forbid, the military.

totally ridiculous, mixes all kinds of stuff. the problem starts Wirh MC - which encompasses with HHI from 60k to a million

Sounds like I've hit a nerve. Rest assured that class only correlated with income, not defined by it. It is defined by outlook, tastes, and values.

But in no world are people making 1M per year of the same SES as those making 60k, which is half of the average income for a white family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The middle class man is marked by class insecurity, and can be identified by his constant attempts to not look working class. The word that most defines the MC man is "terrified". A middle class mom, for example, would be afraid to dress her child in a graphic T for fear that it would misidentify them as WC and therefore be barred from the Montessori school they're planning to afford by foregoing vacations and home maintenance.

Middle class decor is impersonal, the ideal state is to look like a Pottery Barn store. MC adults attempt to be current but understated. They shop at Banana Republic Factory and Ann Taylor Factory, along with TJ Maxx.

The MC lacks time and therefore they have limited entertainment outlets. Watching sports, premium channel television shows, and perhaps a zumba class. The MC woman who is brave may try a boutique studio like soulcycle or a yoga studio, but is worried about fitting in, wearing the right thing, and keeping up so prefers to just go to a class at the gym. MC families are very concerned the class implications of the food they eat and like to say they wouldn't ever go to McDonalds. However, they tend to be overweight.

The MC usually has relatively generous vacation time, although it is decreasing and is no longer a reliable class indicator. Vacations include beach vacations and disney. Aspirational trips are Ireland, Italy, and Iceland. The MC avoid France, except Paris, because they don't want to be seen as "ugly Americans". While on travel the MC try to fit in due to class insecurity and a belief that Americans are less sophisticated. The MC are terrified of cruises because they believe they will be seen as downwardly mobile.

The MC do not make practical financial decisions about college. They will send little Aiden to the best college possible-- defined by US News and World Report, and will take out large loans for the best name. They will send their child to a 4 year college and would be terrified of the class implications of a community college, or, God forbid, the military.

totally ridiculous, mixes all kinds of stuff. the problem starts Wirh MC - which encompasses with HHI from 60k to a million

Sounds like I've hit a nerve. Rest assured that class only correlated with income, not defined by it. It is defined by outlook, tastes, and values.

But in no world are people making 1M per year of the same SES as those making 60k, which is half of the average income for a white family.

DP. You’re right about the MC — average income for a household where both work might be around $120k. HHI of $1m is in the 1 percent. Not that income and class are the same thing.

But I disagree on some of your other points. The MC goes to Paris and hits the Louvre, but they can’t afford or wouldn’t try the summer rental in Provence. I don’t get your point that they’re afraid of being seen as ugly Americans in France specifically—anybody can keep their voices down and be polite, and anyway this is the same problem in all of Europe.

Yoga is now the most middle class thing out there. Anybody can afford a $60 pair of capris at Athleta (or less at TJMax once you’ve attended a few yoga classes and know what to look for).

The MC does overpay for organic at Whole Foods because they think that $8 head of broccoli will help their kids’ mental and physical growth. By overpay, I mean it’s not a wise choice for their budgets.

They also choose top colleges and private schools and sacrifice their retirement plans for these. But I’d say that’s not about them thinking they’re imitating the upper class. Rather, it’s this growing fear among the MC and UMC, which has been well-documented, that education is the new dividing line for success. And in many ways, education IS an increasingly important part of success. What MC parents don’t understand, not having experienced private school themselves, is that even a Big 3 isn’t going to get your kid into Yale without something else, like athletic recruitment or a legacy preference (which MC parents can’t supply).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The middle class man is marked by class insecurity, and can be identified by his constant attempts to not look working class. The word that most defines the MC man is "terrified". A middle class mom, for example, would be afraid to dress her child in a graphic T for fear that it would misidentify them as WC and therefore be barred from the Montessori school they're planning to afford by foregoing vacations and home maintenance.

Middle class decor is impersonal, the ideal state is to look like a Pottery Barn store. MC adults attempt to be current but understated. They shop at Banana Republic Factory and Ann Taylor Factory, along with TJ Maxx.

The MC lacks time and therefore they have limited entertainment outlets. Watching sports, premium channel television shows, and perhaps a zumba class. The MC woman who is brave may try a boutique studio like soulcycle or a yoga studio, but is worried about fitting in, wearing the right thing, and keeping up so prefers to just go to a class at the gym. MC families are very concerned the class implications of the food they eat and like to say they wouldn't ever go to McDonalds. However, they tend to be overweight.

The MC usually has relatively generous vacation time, although it is decreasing and is no longer a reliable class indicator. Vacations include beach vacations and disney. Aspirational trips are Ireland, Italy, and Iceland. The MC avoid France, except Paris, because they don't want to be seen as "ugly Americans". While on travel the MC try to fit in due to class insecurity and a belief that Americans are less sophisticated. The MC are terrified of cruises because they believe they will be seen as downwardly mobile.

The MC do not make practical financial decisions about college. They will send little Aiden to the best college possible-- defined by US News and World Report, and will take out large loans for the best name. They will send their child to a 4 year college and would be terrified of the class implications of a community college, or, God forbid, the military.

totally ridiculous, mixes all kinds of stuff. the problem starts Wirh MC - which encompasses with HHI from 60k to a million

Sounds like I've hit a nerve. Rest assured that class only correlated with income, not defined by it. It is defined by outlook, tastes, and values.

But in no world are people making 1M per year of the same SES as those making 60k, which is half of the average income for a white family.

no you didn’t hit a nerve - I am an immigrant from Europe and I don’t particularly relate to American “class” thing.

your analysis just weirdly mixes up things - people who cant afford daycare and are afraid to try soul cycle and “aspire” to go to Italy buy overpriced degrees and furniture. if they know cruises are scoffed at surely they know the same is true of pottery barn furniture?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The middle class man is marked by class insecurity, and can be identified by his constant attempts to not look working class. The word that most defines the MC man is "terrified". A middle class mom, for example, would be afraid to dress her child in a graphic T for fear that it would misidentify them as WC and therefore be barred from the Montessori school they're planning to afford by foregoing vacations and home maintenance.

Middle class decor is impersonal, the ideal state is to look like a Pottery Barn store. MC adults attempt to be current but understated. They shop at Banana Republic Factory and Ann Taylor Factory, along with TJ Maxx.

The MC lacks time and therefore they have limited entertainment outlets. Watching sports, premium channel television shows, and perhaps a zumba class. The MC woman who is brave may try a boutique studio like soulcycle or a yoga studio, but is worried about fitting in, wearing the right thing, and keeping up so prefers to just go to a class at the gym. MC families are very concerned the class implications of the food they eat and like to say they wouldn't ever go to McDonalds. However, they tend to be overweight.

The MC usually has relatively generous vacation time, although it is decreasing and is no longer a reliable class indicator. Vacations include beach vacations and disney. Aspirational trips are Ireland, Italy, and Iceland. The MC avoid France, except Paris, because they don't want to be seen as "ugly Americans". While on travel the MC try to fit in due to class insecurity and a belief that Americans are less sophisticated. The MC are terrified of cruises because they believe they will be seen as downwardly mobile.

The MC do not make practical financial decisions about college. They will send little Aiden to the best college possible-- defined by US News and World Report, and will take out large loans for the best name. They will send their child to a 4 year college and would be terrified of the class implications of a community college, or, God forbid, the military.

totally ridiculous, mixes all kinds of stuff. the problem starts Wirh MC - which encompasses with HHI from 60k to a million

Sounds like I've hit a nerve. Rest assured that class only correlated with income, not defined by it. It is defined by outlook, tastes, and values.

But in no world are people making 1M per year of the same SES as those making 60k, which is half of the average income for a white family.

DP. You’re right about the MC — average income for a household where both work might be around $120k. HHI of $1m is in the 1 percent. Not that income and class are the same thing.

But I disagree on some of your other points. The MC goes to Paris and hits the Louvre, but they can’t afford or wouldn’t try the summer rental in Provence. I don’t get your point that they’re afraid of being seen as ugly Americans in France specifically—anybody can keep their voices down and be polite, and anyway this is the same problem in all of Europe.

Yoga is now the most middle class thing out there. Anybody can afford a $60 pair of capris at Athleta (or less at TJMax once you’ve attended a few yoga classes and know what to look for).

The MC does overpay for organic at Whole Foods because they think that $8 head of broccoli will help their kids’ mental and physical growth. By overpay, I mean it’s not a wise choice for their budgets.

They also choose top colleges and private schools and sacrifice their retirement plans for these. But I’d say that’s not about them thinking they’re imitating the upper class. Rather, it’s this growing fear among the MC and UMC, which has been well-documented, that education is the new dividing line for success. And in many ways, education IS an increasingly important part of success. What MC parents don’t understand, not having experienced private school themselves, is that even a Big 3 isn’t going to get your kid into Yale without something else, like athletic recruitment or a legacy preference (which MC parents can’t supply).

If you read closely we are in violent agreement- I said they go to Paris but are afraid of France. They would not, for example, go to Antibes or even Alsace. France is sophisticated and the MC is terrified of being seen as unsophisticated.

And, an MC woman will go to yoga. Or get a membership to Lifetime. But this is a somewhat stressful environment for the MC woman, who regards these as UMC endeavors.

+1 on all you said about college. Although I personally believe the fears are misplaced and college does not help MC kids become mobile, it just prevents them from dropping further.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gorgeous home in the best neighborhood and all the kids are in top shelf private schools.

NOT. Most likely they are up to their necks in debt.

[Anonymous]

Class, to me, is grace under fire. Kind. Loving. Pleasant to be around, welcoming.

People with no class have no tact. No manners. Do things to deliberately offend because they eschew "PC culture."

[Anonymous]

I disagree that the middle class finds yoga stressful because they think it’s an UMC thing. Maybe at the yoga studio in downtown Bethesda. But not at the yoga studio near home in the exurbs or Silver Spring, which is where they’d go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gorgeous home in the best neighborhood and all the kids are in top shelf private schools.

NOT. Most likely they are up to their necks in debt.

Not old money, which by definition has “old” money to lay for all this. You’re thinking about the new money strivers.

[Anonymous]

Original art, travel mementos, hardcover books and handmade silk rugs on the hardwoods.

[Anonymous]

People who try too hard to impress with material things look low class to me. Conversely, I have seen millionaires sit around a table in a neighborhood restaurant dressed way down as a working man/homeless. They don't want people to know how rich they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They don’t talk about money.

Kids have surnames for names.

They never seem ruffled. Any problem is solvable and they have a family safety net.

Not overly concerned with organic food, toys, clothes, etc.

Will offer you an alcoholic beverage any time of day you pop by.

This is pretty much the only accurate description in this entire thread. The surnames can be middle names.

My child has multiple English surnames for middle names (they're all family names).

So only white people can be upper class?

It's almost like class is one of multiple ways powerful white people have justified holding on to power historically

It seems like a curiously outdated criteria in an increasingly global society.

+ 1

People in this thread are definitely conflating stereotypes about Old Money New England WASP types with class. Which is laughable and says all you need to know about the poster's class background (i.e. they themselves are MC to UMC at best and are just pretending to know anything about how really rich people live).

DP. Like it or not, this has been the mainstream standard for generations and still is to many people. Until the modern-day equivalent of Paul Fussell (sociologist who wrote about old money) comes along and redefines what it means to “have class,” this will likely continue to be the definition in most peoples’ minds. Note the definition is more about a way of life (attitudes towards money, houses) than about money per se. It may seem narrow nowadays. But so far, nobody has identified a set of attitudes and lifestyles that are common to the new global elite (monied or not). If you can, then maybe you should write that book.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They don’t talk about money.

Kids have surnames for names.

They never seem ruffled. Any problem is solvable and they have a family safety net.

Not overly concerned with organic food, toys, clothes, etc.

Will offer you an alcoholic beverage any time of day you pop by.

This is pretty much the only accurate description in this entire thread. The surnames can be middle names.

My child has multiple English surnames for middle names (they're all family names).

So only white people can be upper class?

It's almost like class is one of multiple ways powerful white people have justified holding on to power historically

It seems like a curiously outdated criteria in an increasingly global society.

+ 1

People in this thread are definitely conflating stereotypes about Old Money New England WASP types with class. Which is laughable and says all you need to know about the poster's class background (i.e. they themselves are MC to UMC at best and are just pretending to know anything about how really rich people live).

DP. Like it or not, this has been the mainstream standard for generations and still is to many people. Until the modern-day equivalent of Paul Fussell (sociologist who wrote about old money) comes along and redefines what it means to “have class,” this will likely continue to be the definition in most peoples’ minds. Note the definition is more about a way of life (attitudes towards money, houses) than about money per se. It may seem narrow nowadays. But so far, nobody has identified a set of attitudes and lifestyles that are common to the new global elite (monied or not). If you can, then maybe you should write that book.

They actually have. Go ahead and google it yourself, I’m not going to do your hw for you. Just realize you sound ignorant.