Subtle signs of class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a big tv is okay, just not over the fireplace. No video game consoles, gamers are lazy.

I hate big TVs, but, honestly, where do you put it?

Your house is big enough that you have one room, off to the side somewhere, with comfy sofas and the tv. This is not the same as having a McMansion with a media room.

[Anonymous]

Don't overthink it.
- very top neighborhood (class don't want to live anywhere near non-elites)
- solid college credentials
- all kids in top private k-12

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As requested:

The UMC man is class secure and therefore has greater range for personal expression than the MC. The current trend of dandy socks, for example, originated in the UMC before being emulated by the lower classes. UMC men are now wearing slightly mismatched prints on their suits, high top leather dress shoes/boots, and other indicators that the man has panache. The UMC woman will also take more license in her clothing than the more timid MC woman. She may wear a sheath dress with her lithe, toned arms serving as the actual fashion statement. She will not be as concerned about "looking professional" as about being stylish, although she manages to both. UMC women are less likely to have polished nails and their hair, in its ideal state, has its natural color and appears slightly undone.

The UMC places great emphasis on knowledge and learning, and this extends far beyond schooling. Their kids will be well travelled and exposed to events, people, and institutions that serve to broaden their perspective or whet their curiosity. For example, they may have their friend who works at an innovative company like google arrange for a tour, or take their kids to see how gouda cheese is made at a dairy in Holland.

The UMC man has a hobby- skiing, flying Cessnas, or sailing are preferred. The women are fit and may ski, run, or use a boutique like orangetheory. They likely have involvement in civic activities.

UMC has the most adventurous palate of the classes, preferring to consume cultural knowledge in food format. They have tried every cuisine. At the moment, the UMC has a crush on America and wants to eat it in all forms- Hawaiian, Californian, Cajun, Southern, BBQ, etc. Preferably whilst listening to distinctly American music like jazz or the blues- and the most class secure are experimenting with country and honky tonk. The UMC now prefers California wine over French, and the kost secure are in the midst of discovering the joy of sparkling wine. Cab and pinot are becoming a bit passe, unless the latter is from Oregon. So, Zinfandel is on the rise. The UMC also adores craft beer, whiskey, and tequila.

You are GOOD. You got all of them.

[Anonymous]

Grey Poupon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Small kitchen, lots of guest rooms, old American cars with some dirt on them. Persian rugs obtained by an older relative whist traveling in Iraq or Yemen in the early 1900s. Vacations include things like helicopter trips to hunt moose or elk, or expeditions on camel with Bedouins. Art includes antiquities, framed handwritten poems signed by Maya Angelou, and mounted heads of animals killed while hunting.

This is mighty specific

I can be more general. The rich prefer their houses out of sight, either by an out of the way location or set back behind trees or a high wall of shrubbery. Although a gate or other structural features might be visible, the house will be primarily surrounded by natural features. The house itself will be made of high quality materials (brick, marble, etc) and there is a strong preference for old wood flooring. The house will retain original features, and great care is taken to retain original finishings. The house is built with entertainment in mind, so the larger rooms are for dining and socializing. Since the rich are served, the kitchen is small, spartan, and outdated.

The rich enjoy an occasional elaborate meal, but usually eat sparingly and tend toward healthy comfort food. Lunch may consist of a tomato soup with fresh cream and basil, or a salad. Breakfast is a bowl of oatmeal or eggs. Dinner may be larger but usually classic- a pan seared steak, cooked in butter. Or grilled salmon. Grilled veggies on the side.

Alcohol abounds but is, like food, driven by comfort and familiarity. The table wine tends to be the same at each meal and is a familiar brand of high quality wine (caymus, opus one) or more likely, a boutique wine with qhom the family has developed a client like relationship and from whom the family buys in bulk. No sweet alcohol, no fruity cocktails, and absolutely no wines made from fruits other than grapes.

The rich dress in layers and the layers are colorful. A rich man does not use a white undershirt in his off time, he wears something more striking. He gets extra points with multiple layers. His entire wardrobe is built for xomfort- this is seen mostly in the exceptional quality of the materials, which are natural.

The rich appreciate authenticity in all forms. They want to look a fish in the eye when they eat it, they want their tacos from a truck where all the day laborers eat. They want to learn salsa dancing while in their summer in Colombia and experience the exhilarating humiliation of a Turkish bathhouse. Therefore they do not prefer to interact only with other rich people because that would deprive them of the fullness of the human condition. A Michelin rated restaurant might have more reliable quality, but the rich love neighborhood gems even more.

The rich love hygge. They love fire and candles, water glistening in the moonlight, and music played slightly too softly.

The rich pursue education in order to improve their conversation skills, not to learn a skill. Unless the skill is fun, like being a pilot or an archeologist. Under no circumstances does a rich man adorn his car with a bumper sticker of his alma mater.

I agree with this. Also organic food. Although they never talk about it. There is so much the rich never talk about.

Yes. Yes.

They don't talk about it because it is a given. They talk about how they love getting their produce from such and such farm, because the cabbage is so fragrant and they have an excellent variety of tomatoes.

So they are insufferable?

[Anonymous]

My take on OP's post had more to do with what people choose given what the means they have than what their means are. TV and bar cart vs piano and books--exactly. The piano may me a 1900 upright instead of a Steinway baby grand, and the books may be from a thrift store but carefully selected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No tattoos, proper grammar, no smoking, well fitted and tasteful clothes, shoes not down at the heels, well spoken and thoughtful, not reactionary or too loud in appearance or demeanor, everyone in family has at least a Bachelor's, ability to discuss politics or world dynamics without getting personal or overly hysterical, limited and tasteful FB/special media posts

Lots of upper class folks in worn shoes, especially among the waspy horsy types.

This. Travel the wealthier town in New England. The older the clothes, the richer the person.

Yes. There is a look that is cultivated in New England Prep schools. The worn loafers, polos or oxford shirts, shorts. They look polished even in their down time. My dad was not rich, but went on scholarship to private prep HS and he had the 'look'. It's not pretentious, but if you have been around those crowds you spot it right away. Most of my family in Connecticut look like this. My dad's yar/garden clothes were old Lacoste shirts, old khaki shorts. He wasn't in t-shirts a whole lot or 'gym' type shorts. There is not a lot of flash. Expensive pieces, worn well. Not necessarily brand-obvious. 1

And the surname thing tends to be 'nouveau'. You get many that are the III or IV---but their names can be Robert, John, Paul, Charles, etc. The lower class American has adopted surnames as first names. All of those little McKenzies, Parkers, etc.

Yes. Totally agree on the surname thing. When I read that I was like No. Surnames as MIDDLE names is another story. That is Yes.

I'm kind of like your dad even though I didn't go on scholarship. I cringe every time my husband is in a tshirt and gym shorts. I wish he'd change. I'm afraid our son will pick up that look. My brother is the old lacoste and old khakis type. I encourage my husband to do that, but it's not really him. Wish it was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The middle class man is marked by class insecurity, and can be identified by his constant attempts to not look working class. The word that most defines the MC man is "terrified". A middle class mom, for example, would be afraid to dress her child in a graphic T for fear that it would misidentify them as WC and therefore be barred from the Montessori school they're planning to afford by foregoing vacations and home maintenance.

Middle class decor is impersonal, the ideal state is to look like a Pottery Barn store. MC adults attempt to be current but understated. They shop at Banana Republic Factory and Ann Taylor Factory, along with TJ Maxx.

The MC lacks time and therefore they have limited entertainment outlets. Watching sports, premium channel television shows, and perhaps a zumba class. The MC woman who is brave may try a boutique studio like soulcycle or a yoga studio, but is worried about fitting in, wearing the right thing, and keeping up so prefers to just go to a class at the gym. MC families are very concerned the class implications of the food they eat and like to say they wouldn't ever go to McDonalds. However, they tend to be overweight.

The MC usually has relatively generous vacation time, although it is decreasing and is no longer a reliable class indicator. Vacations include beach vacations and disney. Aspirational trips are Ireland, Italy, and Iceland. The MC avoid France, except Paris, because they don't want to be seen as "ugly Americans". While on travel the MC try to fit in due to class insecurity and a belief that Americans are less sophisticated. The MC are terrified of cruises because they believe they will be seen as downwardly mobile.

The MC do not make practical financial decisions about college. They will send little Aiden to the best college possible-- defined by US News and World Report, and will take out large loans for the best name. They will send their child to a 4 year college and would be terrified of the class implications of a community college, or, God forbid, the military.

So I think I'm MC ($250K HHI in the DC area). My entire friend circle is in a similar income bracket. The only thing I relate to is the Pottery Barn thing. I love Pottery Barn. And gray. All the gray everything. To me what you describe sounds like WC...

PP, I think maybe you're UMC? I'm definitely MC at just over half your income in DC, and this was so on point it cracked me up. I'm more adventurous (and WC-sympathizing as an angry millennial) than my parents and I don't like Pottery Barn style, but the bits on insecurity, fashion, and education have some serious truth!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No tattoos, proper grammar, no smoking, well fitted and tasteful clothes, shoes not down at the heels, well spoken and thoughtful, not reactionary or too loud in appearance or demeanor, everyone in family has at least a Bachelor's, ability to discuss politics or world dynamics without getting personal or overly hysterical, limited and tasteful FB/special media posts

Lots of upper class folks in worn shoes, especially among the waspy horsy types.

This. Travel the wealthier town in New England. The older the clothes, the richer the person.

Yes. There is a look that is cultivated in New England Prep schools. The worn loafers, polos or oxford shirts, shorts. They look polished even in their down time. My dad was not rich, but went on scholarship to private prep HS and he had the 'look'. It's not pretentious, but if you have been around those crowds you spot it right away. Most of my family in Connecticut look like this. My dad's yar/garden clothes were old Lacoste shirts, old khaki shorts. He wasn't in t-shirts a whole lot or 'gym' type shorts. There is not a lot of flash. Expensive pieces, worn well. Not necessarily brand-obvious. 1

And the surname thing tends to be 'nouveau'. You get many that are the III or IV---but their names can be Robert, John, Paul, Charles, etc. The lower class American has adopted surnames as first names. All of those little McKenzies, Parkers, etc.

Yes. Totally agree on the surname thing. When I read that I was like No. Surnames as MIDDLE names is another story. That is Yes.

I'm kind of like your dad even though I didn't go on scholarship. I cringe every time my husband is in a tshirt and gym shorts. I wish he'd change. I'm afraid our son will pick up that look. My brother is the old lacoste and old khakis type. I encourage my husband to do that, but it's not really him. Wish it was.

+1. Agree that surnames as first names are nouveau or even lower class. My mom’s family has a last name you’ve heard of, and all the first names are normal first names that are repeated a lot in our family. The middle names are sometimes the last names of women who married into the family. If it sounds weird or dumb, that’s probably because it is (but that didn’t stop me from giving a family first name to one kid and family middle names to both kids).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As requested:

The UMC man is class secure and therefore has greater range for personal expression than the MC. The current trend of dandy socks, for example, originated in the UMC before being emulated by the lower classes. UMC men are now wearing slightly mismatched prints on their suits, high top leather dress shoes/boots, and other indicators that the man has panache. The UMC woman will also take more license in her clothing than the more timid MC woman. She may wear a sheath dress with her lithe, toned arms serving as the actual fashion statement. She will not be as concerned about "looking professional" as about being stylish, although she manages to both. UMC women are less likely to have polished nails and their hair, in its ideal state, has its natural color and appears slightly undone.

The UMC places great emphasis on knowledge and learning, and this extends far beyond schooling. Their kids will be well travelled and exposed to events, people, and institutions that serve to broaden their perspective or whet their curiosity. For example, they may have their friend who works at an innovative company like google arrange for a tour, or take their kids to see how gouda cheese is made at a dairy in Holland.

The UMC man has a hobby- skiing, flying Cessnas, or sailing are preferred. The women are fit and may ski, run, or use a boutique like orangetheory. They likely have involvement in civic activities.

UMC has the most adventurous palate of the classes, preferring to consume cultural knowledge in food format. They have tried every cuisine. At the moment, the UMC has a crush on America and wants to eat it in all forms- Hawaiian, Californian, Cajun, Southern, BBQ, etc. Preferably whilst listening to distinctly American music like jazz or the blues- and the most class secure are experimenting with country and honky tonk. The UMC now prefers California wine over French, and the kost secure are in the midst of discovering the joy of sparkling wine. Cab and pinot are becoming a bit passe, unless the latter is from Oregon. So, Zinfandel is on the rise. The UMC also adores craft beer, whiskey, and tequila.

This is so funny

[Anonymous]

So what do ya’ll say about people who grew up MC/UMC but now make a lot of money and have amassed millions?

Because I would say we are still UMC even though we have a lot of money relative to the population (I don’t think it is easy to change your class just because you have a grad degree and a high HHI) but this always gets shouted down when the topic comes up on the money board.

Can you be middle class yet have a bank account with say, 5 million?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My take on OP's post had more to do with what people choose given what the means they have than what their means are. TV and bar cart vs piano and books--exactly. The piano may me a 1900 upright instead of a Steinway baby grand, and the books may be from a thrift store but carefully selected.

OP here. Yes, this was what I was trying to explore. Should have known the DCUM crowd would devolve into arguing about private schools and tax brackets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Original art, furniture of many different vintages tastefully assembled (never any matching sets and some things more well-worn than others), extremely high quality rugs (again, possibly some more worn and some newer) are the things I can think of that distinguish old money and new money.

Realize I'm taking this in a slightly different direction, but where do you buy extremely high quality Persian rugs?

Stark carpet

[Anonymous]

The MC is too large to generalize in that way although the points are interesting. Don’t know too many MC people living in social terror. Social self satisfaction & complacency.

[Anonymous]

I think address is the most telling part of class. Old cars old clothes ah shucks attitude— it all ends with the address in the top zip codes of beaches, mountains, historic districts, and urban enclaves like McLean.