Think she cheated on her SAT?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this is an entirely different world I wasn't privy to.

I'm AA, attended predominantly AA, working class schools in the south. I took the SATs once with no prep at all. Scored close to 1300, with an almost perfect verbal score.

I'd heard of prep classes, but I didn't know anyone taking them. Also, it would've been difficult for my family to afford. I also thought it only bumped your score up a bit, like 100 points.

You mean to tell me that people whose families can afford it are able to bump up their progeny's scores by hundreds of points??

If true (and not statistically rare), what is the point of the test if those with money can essentially manufacture their kids' results?? What is it measuring?? To my mind, this strengthens the case for affirmative action.

Honestly, I think that the test prep people are basing the score jump off the baseline and final test prep practice tests given by the test company.

The baseline one is written to be ambiguous and more difficult to yield a lower score.

The final practice test is written with more clarity, and more likely to yield a higher score.

They are designed to show the parents shelling out the money that there is "progress" from the test prep class and to hopefully give the kids some confidence going into the actual SAT so they will hopefully relax, resulting in a better score.

The jump is not based off real scores, but rather the jump between the test prep practice tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:So for those of you who are upset by this, do you disagree in general with SAT flagging and reviewing test takers who have a statistically significant 300 point score jump?

Or do you object to this specific test taker getting flagged for her 300 point score jump?

I think most who object are primarily driven by a private, unregulated for-profit organization who can do any damn thing they please having so much control over the lives of young people.

And no one “wins” these canceled scores by SAT/ACT. Check College Confidential. It’s a rigged system.

lol....everyone’s a victim, right?

When two companies control a required test for most colleges in the US? YES.

There are many colleges in the US that don’t require tests anymore, and I suspect the list will continue to grow.

If you feel so strongly that the SAT and ACT are damaging to your progeny, there is a very simple solution.

The schools that good students want to go to will always ‘require the tests’. The schools that are test optional are mostly schools whose enrollment is starting to flag abd who are in danger of going out of business.

Just to mention: St. John's College (Annapolis/Santa Fe) has never required test scores. It is a highly regarded school, although with an atypical curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So for those of you who are upset by this, do you disagree in general with SAT flagging and reviewing test takers who have a statistically significant 300 point score jump?

Or do you object to this specific test taker getting flagged for her 300 point score jump?

I think most who object are primarily driven by a private, unregulated for-profit organization who can do any damn thing they please having so much control over the lives of young people.

And no one “wins” these canceled scores by SAT/ACT. Check College Confidential. It’s a rigged system.

lol....everyone’s a victim, right?

When two companies control a required test for most colleges in the US? YES.

There are many colleges in the US that don’t require tests anymore, and I suspect the list will continue to grow.

If you feel so strongly that the SAT and ACT are damaging to your progeny, there is a very simple solution.

The schools that good students want to go to will always ‘require the tests’. The schools that are test optional are mostly schools whose enrollment is starting to flag abd who are in danger of going out of business.

Just to mention: St. John's College (Annapolis/Santa Fe) has never required test scores. It is a highly regarded school, although with an atypical curriculum.

Most people have never heard of that school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this is an entirely different world I wasn't privy to.

I'm AA, attended predominantly AA, working class schools in the south. I took the SATs once with no prep at all. Scored close to 1300, with an almost perfect verbal score.

I'd heard of prep classes, but I didn't know anyone taking them. Also, it would've been difficult for my family to afford. I also thought it only bumped your score up a bit, like 100 points.

You mean to tell me that people whose families can afford it are able to bump up their progeny's scores by hundreds of points??

If true (and not statistically rare), what is the point of the test if those with money can essentially manufacture their kids' results?? What is it measuring?? To my mind, this strengthens the case for affirmative action.

No, most research shows that prep classes bump scores on average 30-60 points. In addition, Asians are the most likely to use test prep, followed by blacks, then Hispanics and lastly whites.

From this link: https://people.socsci.tau.ac.il/mu/salon/files/2011/11/Racial_differences_SFJ_89_2_Alon-final.pdf

"…blacks and Hispanics are more likely than whites from comparable backgrounds to utilize test preparation. The black-white gap is especially pronounced in the use of high school courses, private courses and private tutors."

[Anonymous]

Can someone quote a post in this thread saying categorically that she did not cheat or that she was flagged because of her race?

I see posts saying that they have not seen evidence of her cheating and I see posts saying that they *think* or would not be surprised if color might have to do with this.

But the only categorical posts I see asserting opinions as unqualified facts are those claiming they know for a fact that she cheated or that race had “nothing” to do with this.

I have no horse in this race, but accuracy is very important to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone quote a post in this thread saying categorically that she did not cheat or that she was flagged because of her race?

I see posts saying that they have not seen evidence of her cheating and I see posts saying that they *think* or would not be surprised if color might have to do with this.

But the only categorical posts I see asserting opinions as unqualified facts are those claiming they know for a fact that she cheated or that race had “nothing” to do with this.

I have no horse in this race, but accuracy is very important to me.

Page 5, the post that started most of this off: "She's brown, so they flagged her results".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone quote a post in this thread saying categorically that she did not cheat or that she was flagged because of her race?

I see posts saying that they have not seen evidence of her cheating and I see posts saying that they *think* or would not be surprised if color might have to do with this.

But the only categorical posts I see asserting opinions as unqualified facts are those claiming they know for a fact that she cheated or that race had “nothing” to do with this.

I have no horse in this race, but accuracy is very important to me.

There was a poster calling people racist and using slanderous names so if those are not there it is possible the moderator cleaned up the thread by deleting those posts and the back and forth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this is an entirely different world I wasn't privy to.

I'm AA, attended predominantly AA, working class schools in the south. I took the SATs once with no prep at all. Scored close to 1300, with an almost perfect verbal score.

I'd heard of prep classes, but I didn't know anyone taking them. Also, it would've been difficult for my family to afford. I also thought it only bumped your score up a bit, like 100 points.

You mean to tell me that people whose families can afford it are able to bump up their progeny's scores by hundreds of points??

If true (and not statistically rare), what is the point of the test if those with money can essentially manufacture their kids' results?? What is it measuring?? To my mind, this strengthens the case for affirmative action.

Honestly, I think that the test prep people are basing the score jump off the baseline and final test prep practice tests given by the test company.

The baseline one is written to be ambiguous and more difficult to yield a lower score.

The final practice test is written with more clarity, and more likely to yield a higher score.

They are designed to show the parents shelling out the money that there is "progress" from the test prep class and to hopefully give the kids some confidence going into the actual SAT so they will hopefully relax, resulting in a better score.

The jump is not based off real scores, but rather the jump between the test prep practice tests.

No. The baseline and final score are based on REAL tests. You do know that the College Board released 8 previous tests that people study from? It’s the big blue book. This isn’t the evaluative test that Princeton Review and Kaplan give out.

[Anonymous]

If they are saying they believe she copied answers from another test taker sitting nearby, how do they know who copied from who? Is there camera footage?

Saying that her pattern of responses on the test ........... Seems unsubstantiated.

[Anonymous]

If there are two people sitting next to each other. One of those people has a 300 point score bump on their test, the other test taker has a 10 point score bump....And for some reason their answer sheets match....I would imagine that the person with the unusual score bump of 300 points + answers that match the other test taker would be suspected of cheating.

[Anonymous]

They also said they take into consideration her work in her test book


If she has the right answer but shows no work when a dozen lines of algebra are required.... How do you explain that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If there are two people sitting next to each other. One of those people has a 300 point score bump on their test, the other test taker has a 10 point score bump....And for some reason their answer sheets match....I would imagine that the person with the unusual score bump of 300 points + answers that match the other test taker would be suspected of cheating.

They said none of this in that letter. Stop making up nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Heard her speak, she sounds functionally illiterate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Heard her speak, she sounds functionally illiterate.

She sounds like she can’t read?? You sound like you don’t know the definition of “illiterate”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If they are saying they believe she copied answers from another test taker sitting nearby, how do they know who copied from who? Is there camera footage?

Saying that her pattern of responses on the test ........... Seems unsubstantiated.

Right. That surprised me. When I design a test, I design questions so that some are harder than others so that the "kids are separated from the adults". Furthermore, when I choose my answers, the three false answers aren't random crap, but designed to catch people who don't really know. Thus, I might expect most of the wrong answers to be those that fell into my trap.