Do unmotivated kids get into HGC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good. Let's just trust MCPS to do the right things. MCPS is resting on a twenty year old reputation on being a great school district anyway. Let's destroy its highly respected gifted programs too.

There's that assumption again -- efforts to increase the participation of gifted poor, Hispanic, and black kids in gifted programs = destroying the gifted programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good. Let's just trust MCPS to do the right things. MCPS is resting on a twenty year old reputation on being a great school district anyway. Let's destroy its highly respected gifted programs too.

There's that assumption again -- efforts to increase the participation of gifted poor, Hispanic, and black kids in gifted programs = destroying the gifted programs.

Where did you get the idea is an assumption? It is a statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I agree with this. That is why I have no problem with pouring more money to the titile 1 schools and have preschools for low income kids or headstart. I just don't know whether chaning gifted program admission criteria is the way to do it.

More outreach effort such as not needing parents to apply for their kids to these programs are great. I wholely support. Reducing testing difficulty and use opaque admission standard to social engineer students demographics is an insult to any intelligent person in the community.

MCPS has never not used opaque admissions standards, nor should they ever stop using opaque admissions standards. Why? Because the minute they explain the admissions standards, parents with knowledge and resources will start to jigger the process. (Speaking of social engineering.) If you support admission by merit, you should support the opaque admissions standards.

Yep totally agree. And I don't think anyone is saying to admit non-qualified students to HGC -- just that there may be more than one way to determine which kids are gifted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good. Let's just trust MCPS to do the right things. MCPS is resting on a twenty year old reputation on being a great school district anyway. Let's destroy its highly respected gifted programs too.

There's that assumption again -- efforts to increase the participation of gifted poor, Hispanic, and black kids in gifted programs = destroying the gifted programs.

Where did you get the idea is an assumption? It is a statement.

it is not a fact though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good. Let's just trust MCPS to do the right things. MCPS is resting on a twenty year old reputation on being a great school district anyway. Let's destroy its highly respected gifted programs too.

There's that assumption again -- efforts to increase the participation of gifted poor, Hispanic, and black kids in gifted programs = destroying the gifted programs.

Where did you get the idea is an assumption? It is a statement.

You are assuming that by using an opaque standard that cannot not be explained to anyway, magically there are an increase in diversity in gifted programs. Why not invested in K-2 more heavily for the disadvantaged kids and let everyone have the same admission standard? Why are you so against having a standard?

To be honest, if the whole curriculum is so watered down to close the achivement gap, there won't be such demand for the magnet program anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I agree with this. That is why I have no problem with pouring more money to the titile 1 schools and have preschools for low income kids or headstart. I just don't know whether chaning gifted program admission criteria is the way to do it.

More outreach effort such as not needing parents to apply for their kids to these programs are great. I wholely support. Reducing testing difficulty and use opaque admission standard to social engineer students demographics is an insult to any intelligent person in the community.

MCPS has never not used opaque admissions standards, nor should they ever stop using opaque admissions standards. Why? Because the minute they explain the admissions standards, parents with knowledge and resources will start to jigger the process. (Speaking of social engineering.) If you support admission by merit, you should support the opaque admissions standards.

Yep totally agree. And I don't think anyone is saying to admit non-qualified students to HGC -- just that there may be more than one way to determine which kids are gifted.

More than one way that cannot be explained.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

More than one way that cannot be explained.

There's a difference between "cannot be explained" and "MCPS is not going to explain the process to you, because it would be counter to the whole point of the process".

[Anonymous]

People have to accept that not all children are super-bright.

I find it hard for people to do that. Accept it and move along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You are assuming that by using an opaque standard that cannot not be explained to anyway, magically there are an increase in diversity in gifted programs. Why not invested in K-2 more heavily for the disadvantaged kids and let everyone have the same admission standard? Why are you so against having a standard?

To be honest, if the whole curriculum is so watered down to close the achivement gap, there won't be such demand for the magnet program anyway.

What's magic about it? MCPS commissioned a report (the Metis report) that, among other things, identified barriers to entry. MCPS has now redone its admissions process in an effort to remove some of those barriers to entry. The revised admissions process will either increase participation by previously underparticipating groups, or it won't. Either way, there will be measurable results.

[Anonymous]

Being opaque means that MCPS can get the non-qualified URMs in so that they can say that they are closing the achievement gap. Which is stupid.

Even if they create another magnet program of all URMs they will see that the achievement gap still remains. They may also find out that they created another marker for achievement gap - between the regular magnet and the URM only magnet.

The way to close the achievement gap is simply to have mandatory intervention from K-12 for all students who are lagging behind and shorter summer breaks. If MCPS needs to parent, then they need to parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Being opaque means that MCPS can get the non-qualified URMs in so that they can say that they are closing the achievement gap. Which is stupid.

Even if they create another magnet program of all URMs they will see that the achievement gap still remains. They may also find out that they created another marker for achievement gap - between the regular magnet and the URM only magnet.

The way to close the achievement gap is simply to have mandatory intervention from K-12 for all students who are lagging behind and shorter summer breaks. If MCPS needs to parent, then they need to parent.

I'm going to say this again, in capital letters, for emphasis. THIS IS NOT ABOUT CLOSING THE ACHIEVEMENT GAP. THIS IS ABOUT REMOVING BARRIERS TO ENTRY.

Mandatory intervention from K-12 for all students who are lagging behind isn't going to do a darn thing for a kid who could be in a gifted magnet program but isn't because their parents don't have the resources and aren't in the know.

It's as though we were playing word association, and everybody's immediate response to "black and Hispanic kids" is "kids who are behind". As though they were one and the same. They're not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being opaque means that MCPS can get the non-qualified URMs in so that they can say that they are closing the achievement gap. Which is stupid.

Even if they create another magnet program of all URMs they will see that the achievement gap still remains. They may also find out that they created another marker for achievement gap - between the regular magnet and the URM only magnet.

The way to close the achievement gap is simply to have mandatory intervention from K-12 for all students who are lagging behind and shorter summer breaks. If MCPS needs to parent, then they need to parent.

I'm going to say this again, in capital letters, for emphasis. THIS IS NOT ABOUT CLOSING THE ACHIEVEMENT GAP. THIS IS ABOUT REMOVING BARRIERS TO ENTRY.

Mandatory intervention from K-12 for all students who are lagging behind isn't going to do a darn thing for a kid who could be in a gifted magnet program but isn't because their parents don't have the resources and aren't in the know.

It's as though we were playing word association, and everybody's immediate response to "black and Hispanic kids" is "kids who are behind". As though they were one and the same. They're not.

The barrier to entry such as their parents are not in the know should be removed entirely, which MCPS is doing. Stop testing quantative reasoning because Asians and Whites always score better for SMAC middle school magnets? Shortening elementary school magnet test to a paltry half an hour? It shows what MCPS really thinks about barrier to entry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being opaque means that MCPS can get the non-qualified URMs in so that they can say that they are closing the achievement gap. Which is stupid.

Even if they create another magnet program of all URMs they will see that the achievement gap still remains. They may also find out that they created another marker for achievement gap - between the regular magnet and the URM only magnet.

The way to close the achievement gap is simply to have mandatory intervention from K-12 for all students who are lagging behind and shorter summer breaks. If MCPS needs to parent, then they need to parent.

I'm going to say this again, in capital letters, for emphasis. THIS IS NOT ABOUT CLOSING THE ACHIEVEMENT GAP. THIS IS ABOUT REMOVING BARRIERS TO ENTRY.

Mandatory intervention from K-12 for all students who are lagging behind isn't going to do a darn thing for a kid who could be in a gifted magnet program but isn't because their parents don't have the resources and aren't in the know.

It's as though we were playing word association, and everybody's immediate response to "black and Hispanic kids" is "kids who are behind". As though they were one and the same. They're not.

I agree with you, but I think MCPS does not. Why is there so much focus on ‘closing the achievement gap’?

What do you think MCPS says when it states that as their goal? It means that they feel that Black and Latino kids are not performing well. That’s where people make the assumption that Black and Hispanic kids are lagging behind!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are assuming that by using an opaque standard that cannot not be explained to anyway, magically there are an increase in diversity in gifted programs. Why not invested in K-2 more heavily for the disadvantaged kids and let everyone have the same admission standard? Why are you so against having a standard?

To be honest, if the whole curriculum is so watered down to close the achivement gap, there won't be such demand for the magnet program anyway.

What's magic about it? MCPS commissioned a report (the Metis report) that, among other things, identified barriers to entry. MCPS has now redone its admissions process in an effort to remove some of those barriers to entry. The revised admissions process will either increase participation by previously underparticipating groups, or it won't. Either way, there will be measurable results.

Metis report reported what MCPS wanted it to report. The achievement gap is not a creation of the magnet programs. The achievement gap may be one of the reasons that AA and HI students are under-participating in the magnet program.

AA and HI students are under-participating and under-achieving in all academic areas throughout the US - be it schools, colleges, SATs or scholastic competitions. And this is not the function of race alone - but a function of generations of poverty and broken family structure for AA, and poverty, language barrier, illiteracy, immigration status and displaced families for HI students.

Changing admissions criteria for magnet programs is not going to fix that. However, it just might end up fucking up one of the things that does work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being opaque means that MCPS can get the non-qualified URMs in so that they can say that they are closing the achievement gap. Which is stupid.

Even if they create another magnet program of all URMs they will see that the achievement gap still remains. They may also find out that they created another marker for achievement gap - between the regular magnet and the URM only magnet.

The way to close the achievement gap is simply to have mandatory intervention from K-12 for all students who are lagging behind and shorter summer breaks. If MCPS needs to parent, then they need to parent.

I'm going to say this again, in capital letters, for emphasis. THIS IS NOT ABOUT CLOSING THE ACHIEVEMENT GAP. THIS IS ABOUT REMOVING BARRIERS TO ENTRY.

Mandatory intervention from K-12 for all students who are lagging behind isn't going to do a darn thing for a kid who could be in a gifted magnet program but isn't because their parents don't have the resources and aren't in the know.

It's as though we were playing word association, and everybody's immediate response to "black and Hispanic kids" is "kids who are behind". As though they were one and the same. They're not.

The barrier to entry such as their parents are not in the know should be removed entirely, which MCPS is doing. Stop testing quantitative reasoning because Asians and Whites always score better for SMAC middle school magnets? Shortening elementary school magnet test to a paltry half an hour? It shows what MCPS really thinks about barrier to entry.

Exactly. If MCPS was testing EVERY STUDENT in 3rd grade and giving the top students automatic admission - it would be another thing. If they were expanding magnet programs to accommodate the top 3-5% students in the entire county- that would be another thing. If they were enforcing that all 2nd graders were being prepared to take that exam at school then it would be another thing. However, they are just lowering the standards so that they can say that they took more Blacks and Latinos. What about Whites and Asians who are also ESOL and FARMS?

Poverty + under-achievement in this county IS falling along racial lines. It is irrefutable. However, the Asian-American population (rich or poor) bears no burden to problem.