Do unmotivated kids get into HGC?

[Anonymous]

Lots of kids get into HGCs who don't belong there...and they typically end up leaving. I know a kid who got in because his mother lobbied hard for it. She volunteered at the school and sucked up to the principal. The principal pushed for it and made the classroom teacher fall in line to support the application/recommendation. He barely lasted a year. I know another kid whose mother pushed him to go. He tested extremely well, but wasn't motivated. She pushed him the entire year, but he ended up returning to the neighborhood school as well (mother said he missed his friends and didn't enjoy the longer ride...actually, both mothers used that same excuse...I think it's code for "I pushed my unmotivated kid as hard as I could, and it still didn't pan out."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Money has been poured into the title one and focus schools. The classroooms in those schools have 25-30%less students, more supporting staff like esol teachers, classroom aids in lower grade. Mcps surpoorted Saturday school offers free or low cost classes in silver spring and gaithurberg. Unfortunately, money is not the solution. Has anyonr heard what Facebook funder did in Newark? A lots of money were spent but the experiment failed spectacularly.
We lived in Germantown a few years ago before my DD started School. On the weekend in local library, only few families are from non asian and white families.
In mcps, most of AA and Hi students who have done well are from immigrant families where education is valued and many parents are educated in their native counties.

You must have been going to a different library in Germantown from the one I go to.

I am glad things have changed. It is always encouraging to see families in the Library.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Money has been poured into the title one and focus schools. The classroooms in those schools have 25-30%less students, more supporting staff like esol teachers, classroom aids in lower grade. Mcps surpoorted Saturday school offers free or low cost classes in silver spring and gaithurberg. Unfortunately, money is not the solution. Has anyonr heard what Facebook funder did in Newark? A lots of money were spent but the experiment failed spectacularly.
We lived in Germantown a few years ago before my DD started School. On the weekend in local library, only few families are from non asian and white families.
In mcps, most of AA and Hi students who have done well are from immigrant families where education is valued and many parents are educated in their native counties.

You must have been going to a different library in Germantown from the one I go to.

I am glad things have changed. It is always encouraging to see families in the Library.

PP you're responding to. No, things haven't changed. It's been like that since at least 2000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Money has been poured into the title one and focus schools. The classroooms in those schools have 25-30%less students, more supporting staff like esol teachers, classroom aids in lower grade. Mcps surpoorted Saturday school offers free or low cost classes in silver spring and gaithurberg. Unfortunately, money is not the solution. Has anyonr heard what Facebook funder did in Newark? A lots of money were spent but the experiment failed spectacularly.
We lived in Germantown a few years ago before my DD started School. On the weekend in local library, only few families are from non asian and white families.
In mcps, most of AA and Hi students who have done well are from immigrant families where education is valued and many parents are educated in their native counties.

You must have been going to a different library in Germantown from the one I go to.

I am glad things have changed. It is always encouraging to see families in the Library.

PP you're responding to. No, things haven't changed. It's been like that since at least 2000.

No excuses for the poor performances in school and in testing then I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Money has been poured into the title one and focus schools. The classroooms in those schools have 25-30%less students, more supporting staff like esol teachers, classroom aids in lower grade. Mcps surpoorted Saturday school offers free or low cost classes in silver spring and gaithurberg. Unfortunately, money is not the solution. Has anyonr heard what Facebook funder did in Newark? A lots of money were spent but the experiment failed spectacularly.
We lived in Germantown a few years ago before my DD started School. On the weekend in local library, only few families are from non asian and white families.
In mcps, most of AA and Hi students who have done well are from immigrant families where education is valued and many parents are educated in their native counties.

You must have been going to a different library in Germantown from the one I go to.

I am glad things have changed. It is always encouraging to see families in the Library.

PP you're responding to. No, things haven't changed. It's been like that since at least 2000.

No excuses for the poor performances in school and in testing then I guess.

Shame on you. It's not even 8 am, and you're already being hateful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of kids get into HGCs who don't belong there...and they typically end up leaving. I know a kid who got in because his mother lobbied hard for it. She volunteered at the school and sucked up to the principal. The principal pushed for it and made the classroom teacher fall in line to support the application/recommendation. He barely lasted a year. I know another kid whose mother pushed him to go. He tested extremely well, but wasn't motivated. She pushed him the entire year, but he ended up returning to the neighborhood school as well (mother said he missed his friends and didn't enjoy the longer ride...actually, both mothers used that same excuse...I think it's code for "I pushed my unmotivated kid as hard as I could, and it still didn't pan out."

Please stop. I know of several kids who really did not like the commute and having to give up some sports or other extracurriculuars for the HGCs. Sometimes it is hard for them to make friends in the HGCs or they miss their old ones too much. Sometimes they promise their parents they will try it for a semester but then they get to make up their own minds. You know nothing about these families' situations. It may have nothing to do with academics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of kids get into HGCs who don't belong there...and they typically end up leaving. I know a kid who got in because his mother lobbied hard for it. She volunteered at the school and sucked up to the principal. The principal pushed for it and made the classroom teacher fall in line to support the application/recommendation. He barely lasted a year. I know another kid whose mother pushed him to go. He tested extremely well, but wasn't motivated. She pushed him the entire year, but he ended up returning to the neighborhood school as well (mother said he missed his friends and didn't enjoy the longer ride...actually, both mothers used that same excuse...I think it's code for "I pushed my unmotivated kid as hard as I could, and it still didn't pan out."

Please stop. I know of several kids who really did not like the commute and having to give up some sports or other extracurriculuars for the HGCs. Sometimes it is hard for them to make friends in the HGCs or they miss their old ones too much. Sometimes they promise their parents they will try it for a semester but then they get to make up their own minds. You know nothing about these families' situations. It may have nothing to do with academics.

I alum interview Blair students for my well-known engineering college. The kids that apply, accept and stay in HGC are usually the ones where the parents played the "live in east county and get into the magnet or HGC program up the block". Not the ones in Bethesda or Potomac. If they do HGC it is for elementary school only and not middle or high school. For that they are back to BCC, Whitman or W Johnson. The logistics are easier and the coursework is excellent.

I would also add, that the kids that get accepted in the college are truly brilliant and passionate. it is an internal passion, not driven by parents. And not everyone in that camp gets admitted. You should hear some of the stuff kids confess at these college interviews. I have to compare annually with my alums that interview the other area high school applicants. Several layers of level setting by the school as well. Lucky dip at the end.

[Anonymous]

I have a kid who started in an HGC program this year. DC tells me there are some very disruptive kids in the program - don't follow rules, talk and disturb others during class, etc. It so happens that they are mostly, but not all, AA. There is also one child who is just plain slow and "spacey". I have no personal experience with the "disruptive" kids, but I did spend some time with the "spacey" kid during open house when the teacher happened to pair him with my DC and me for a group math activity. I was shocked by how painfully slow this kid was at solving very simple math problems that my kid (and several others) solved in no time at all! He needed one on one help from the teacher just to participate, and still could not stay focused enough to complete the activity! He happens to be Latino. This kid has also been acting up a lot lately, resorting to making rude comments and even hitting! I was rather disturbed by my experience at the open house, and now finding out about the behavior issues, I have serious doubts/questions about the selection process and criteria used by MCPS for HGCs this year. I would never have imagined that such a slow, unfocused and behaviorally challenged kid would ever be part of my DC's peer group in a magnet program! Something just doesn't jive here!! My search for answers brought me to this forum, and thought I would share my personal experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid who started in an HGC program this year. DC tells me there are some very disruptive kids in the program - don't follow rules, talk and disturb others during class, etc. It so happens that they are mostly, but not all, AA. There is also one child who is just plain slow and "spacey". I have no personal experience with the "disruptive" kids, but I did spend some time with the "spacey" kid during open house when the teacher happened to pair him with my DC and me for a group math activity. I was shocked by how painfully slow this kid was at solving very simple math problems that my kid (and several others) solved in no time at all! He needed one on one help from the teacher just to participate, and still could not stay focused enough to complete the activity! He happens to be Latino. This kid has also been acting up a lot lately, resorting to making rude comments and even hitting! I was rather disturbed by my experience at the open house, and now finding out about the behavior issues, I have serious doubts/questions about the selection process and criteria used by MCPS for HGCs this year. I would never have imagined that such a slow, unfocused and behaviorally challenged kid would ever be part of my DC's peer group in a magnet program! Something just doesn't jive here!! My search for answers brought me to this forum, and thought I would share my personal experience.

Please don't volunteer to help in the classroom or chaperone field trips.

[Anonymous]

Okk! Got it! So grateful for your kind advice?

[Anonymous]

Why not?

There are lots of reasons why kids might behave one way the year they were picked and differently once they get to the HGC.

I suspect many of the least well behaved, used good behavior as a way to standout at their home school. Now at the HGC, only bad behavior will stand out, so that is what they do.

I have a neighbor who passed away last spring. I interact with his kids during a couple of after school clubs, since their father passed, the three of them all show the challenges you list.

My DD is on her MS math team with a kid who everyone seems to know is way off his game in the morning because he is hungry but after lunch he is amazing.

Back when she was at the HGC, she knew kids that hated the math part and refused to be engaged but loved the writing part and excelled.

The point is you don't want magnet programs that just focus on the students that "grow up early" or live to please adults.

An important part of an HGC is to open kid's minds and slowly get them to change.

One of the best things about American education is that not everyone has to start at the same time. Some get swept up in ES, others don't become engaged until MS or HS but because the pathways aren't closed too early many more can benefit. US colleges are even more inclusive since you can flunk out of HS, get a GED, go to Community college nights and the graduate from a state flagship or at least 2nd tier state school before going to a solid graduate or potentially a professional school. No it's not easy to get second or third chances but many people do it anyway.

"I would never have imagined that such a slow, unfocused and behaviorally challenged kid would ever be part of my DC's peer group in a magnet program!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid who started in an HGC program this year. DC tells me there are some very disruptive kids in the program - don't follow rules, talk and disturb others during class, etc. It so happens that they are mostly, but not all, AA. There is also one child who is just plain slow and "spacey". I have no personal experience with the "disruptive" kids, but I did spend some time with the "spacey" kid during open house when the teacher happened to pair him with my DC and me for a group math activity. I was shocked by how painfully slow this kid was at solving very simple math problems that my kid (and several others) solved in no time at all! He needed one on one help from the teacher just to participate, and still could not stay focused enough to complete the activity! He happens to be Latino. This kid has also been acting up a lot lately, resorting to making rude comments and even hitting! I was rather disturbed by my experience at the open house, and now finding out about the behavior issues, I have serious doubts/questions about the selection process and criteria used by MCPS for HGCs this year. I would never have imagined that such a slow, unfocused and behaviorally challenged kid would ever be part of my DC's peer group in a magnet program! Something just doesn't jive here!! My search for answers brought me to this forum, and thought I would share my personal experience.

This is why they aren't called the Highly Well Behaved Centers, or the Definitely Listens to Directions Centers.

Guess what? Sometimes gifted kids ALSO have behaviors. That's one of the reasons why they need differentiated instruction. If they were your standard issue kid who is "good at school," they wouldn't need a pull out differentiation experience.

[Anonymous]

Thanks, appreciate that perspective! It's just that you hear so much about how competitive the selection process to these programs is, and how only the highest test scores, great overall school record and great teacher recommendations etc. will get a kid into such a program, and then you see a kid in that very program who has trouble keeping up as well as behavior issues, and you wonder!!
The kids are very much expected to work well together in groups and are graded on this, and according to my DC, others have to slow down and even risk poor grades when they have to work with him because this child just can't or won't keep up. And I already asked my child if this kid is better in other subjects (other than math) and DC said this is how he is, all day! Again, I do appreciate your perspective, and do understand that being inclusive is necessary in regular schools. But for a specialized merit-based program?? It is difficult for me to understand how a kid who clearly can't keep up with his peers academically or behaviorally belongs in that program! What about the other kids in the class who have to suffer because of it?
And if the child is performing poorly because of circumstances outside the school, MCPS still needs to figure out how to provide this child what he needs instead of letting him struggle in a competitive program and make others struggle with him!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, appreciate that perspective! It's just that you hear so much about how competitive the selection process to these programs is, and how only the highest test scores, great overall school record and great teacher recommendations etc. will get a kid into such a program, and then you see a kid in that very program who has trouble keeping up as well as behavior issues, and you wonder!!
The kids are very much expected to work well together in groups and are graded on this, and according to my DC, others have to slow down and even risk poor grades when they have to work with him because this child just can't or won't keep up. And I already asked my child if this kid is better in other subjects (other than math) and DC said this is how he is, all day! Again, I do appreciate your perspective, and do understand that being inclusive is necessary in regular schools. But for a specialized merit-based program?? It is difficult for me to understand how a kid who clearly can't keep up with his peers academically or behaviorally belongs in that program! What about the other kids in the class who have to suffer because of it?
And if the child is performing poorly because of circumstances outside the school, MCPS still needs to figure out how to provide this child what he needs instead of letting him struggle in a competitive program and make others struggle with him!

It's also not the Center for Well-Behaved Neurotypical Children, or (despite what some people might think) the Center for Children Whose Parents Don't Mind Being All Up In Things That Are None Of Their Darn Business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why not?

There are lots of reasons why kids might behave one way the year they were picked and differently once they get to the HGC.

I suspect many of the least well behaved, used good behavior as a way to standout at their home school. Now at the HGC, only bad behavior will stand out, so that is what they do.

I have a neighbor who passed away last spring. I interact with his kids during a couple of after school clubs, since their father passed, the three of them all show the challenges you list.

My DD is on her MS math team with a kid who everyone seems to know is way off his game in the morning because he is hungry but after lunch he is amazing.

Back when she was at the HGC, she knew kids that hated the math part and refused to be engaged but loved the writing part and excelled.

The point is you don't want magnet programs that just focus on the students that "grow up early" or live to please adults.

An important part of an HGC is to open kid's minds and slowly get them to change.

One of the best things about American education is that not everyone has to start at the same time. Some get swept up in ES, others don't become engaged until MS or HS but because the pathways aren't closed too early many more can benefit. US colleges are even more inclusive since you can flunk out of HS, get a GED, go to Community college nights and the graduate from a state flagship or at least 2nd tier state school before going to a solid graduate or potentially a professional school. No it's not easy to get second or third chances but many people do it anyway.

"I would never have imagined that such a slow, unfocused and behaviorally challenged kid would ever be part of my DC's peer group in a magnet program!"

This was a wonderfully intelligent and thoughtful response to a pretty obnoxious post. Thank you.