How to improve AAP and General Ed Together

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: My family's experience does not exist in a vacuum. My family is not so special that we are the only ones with this experience. Many, many parents have similar experiences as mine . I cannot quantify how many, but neither can ANYONE making any claims on this board. What percentage of children feel stigmatized? For all we know it's only anecdotal and it's only the posters here on this board . What percentage of parents feel that their children are not being appropriately challenged in general education? Can you quantify that with evidence? No. It's only anecdotal "evidence" on this board .

It is not anecdotal that there exists issues within AAP. There is enough data showing people make decisions on housing based on the AAP program even which county to buy in. There is enough data showing that many general ed parents are unhappy with the current curriculum offered to their children and the stigma their children receive that they aren't smart. There is enough data showing schools with low numbers of AAP students are not as highly rated.

I find it hard to believe that in all your dealings with people, you've never come across anyone other than on this board who has a general ed student at any school who doesn't like the current setup. I don't think you're trying very hard to find anyone who has a different opinion.

What data on the bolded part? Complaining on dcum does not count as "data."

The only factual statement from your argument is the third point that schools with low numbers of AAP students are not as highly rated. That statement is supported by actual facts, including test scores from SOLs all the way through SATs and real estate prices/days on market.

[Anonymous]

FCPS has data on which children are transfers. They also have data on why children leave the public school system or come into it. FCAG does its own studies as well. Fairfax has data from real estate brokers. And yes, there is data from online forums here and on other websites.

[Anonymous]

And all of this data supports what, exactly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And all of this data supports what, exactly?

Well we can see trends. It involves discussion to decide what it supports.

[Anonymous]

Re: homerooms. I am a PP whose 6th grade Center kid had a homeroom-- sort of. 3 AAP classes. One teacher for reading, one for math and one for science. So, each kid has a "primary teacher," who does morning meeting, primary parent contact, etc. That teacher teaches "her" class social studies plus her subject. So my DC had the same teacher for homeroom, social studies and science (the teacher's subject). And then rotated for math and reading. Went to lunch, assemblies, etc. with homeroom. We did the parent conference with the homeroom teacher, as well as the 504 planning. I'm not sure if this counts as homeroom or not, but it's called homeroom.

Also, re: lunch. Part of lunch is just pushing kids through as fast as possible. Our Center has trailers, and the school keeps growing, but the lunchroom does not. So, they have to serve lunch from 10:30-2:00. Lunch seems to be all about getting kids in and out as quickly as possible, in as organized a manner as possible, to maximize the lunchroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And all of this data supports what, exactly?

Well we can see trends. It involves discussion to decide what it supports.

What trends do you see? With actual data, not here say on DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: My family's experience does not exist in a vacuum. My family is not so special that we are the only ones with this experience. Many, many parents have similar experiences as mine . I cannot quantify how many, but neither can ANYONE making any claims on this board. What percentage of children feel stigmatized? For all we know it's only anecdotal and it's only the posters here on this board . What percentage of parents feel that their children are not being appropriately challenged in general education? Can you quantify that with evidence? No. It's only anecdotal "evidence" on this board .

It is not anecdotal that there exists issues within AAP. There is enough data showing people make decisions on housing based on the AAP program even which county to buy in. There is enough data showing that many general ed parents are unhappy with the current curriculum offered to their children and the stigma their children receive that they aren't smart. There is enough data showing schools with low numbers of AAP students are not as highly rated.

I find it hard to believe that in all your dealings with people, you've never come across anyone other than on this board who has a general ed student at any school who doesn't like the current setup. I don't think you're trying very hard to find anyone who has a different opinion.

I find it very hard to believe that in all your dealings with people, you've never come across anyone who has a gen ed student who is happy with the current set up. I think you are trying VERY hard to validate complaining on DCUM as 'evidence' and discarding support of the current system and examples of people and communities where it is not all the drama you make it out to be as simply 'anecdotal."

[Anonymous]

No one has said people aren't happy in general ed at a center or non center school. But with the rise of the number of AAP students and certain schools having a larger number of AAP students than they used to, many parents feel the general ed classrooms are getting watered down. Some non-center schools aren't attracting as many families interested in academics as they used to. Teachers are expecting less of the students and they are realizing the differences in curriculum and think they are too great. Kids are feeling dumb since so many of the kids at their school are in advanced academics. FCPS isn't implementing the advanced math program at all schools. I think there are ways to improve the programs for all without doing away with AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Re: homerooms. I am a PP whose 6th grade Center kid had a homeroom-- sort of. 3 AAP classes. One teacher for reading, one for math and one for science. So, each kid has a "primary teacher," who does morning meeting, primary parent contact, etc. That teacher teaches "her" class social studies plus her subject. So my DC had the same teacher for homeroom, social studies and science (the teacher's subject). And then rotated for math and reading. Went to lunch, assemblies, etc. with homeroom. We did the parent conference with the homeroom teacher, as well as the 504 planning. I'm not sure if this counts as homeroom or not, but it's called homeroom.

Also, re: lunch. Part of lunch is just pushing kids through as fast as possible. Our Center has trailers, and the school keeps growing, but the lunchroom does not. So, they have to serve lunch from 10:30-2:00. Lunch seems to be all about getting kids in and out as quickly as possible, in as organized a manner as possible, to maximize the lunchroom.

This is not a mixed homeroom. When do these kids ever interact with the general ed kids at your school?

[Anonymous]

I'm so happy that in one part of FCPS everything is going so well. Where I live, I meet families all the time who move their kid to private because they didn't get into AAP. I meet families who send kids to private until their child gets into AAP. I meet families who have kids in AAP and act like they don't care nor ever will care about the general ed kids at the school. I meet families who are upset that there aren't enough kids to have an advanced math group at the base school or after school activities. I meet families who are worried about their school's reviews because the number of children below grade level is increasing since all the smart kids go to the center. I meet families who didn't move within a school boundary because that school had AAP or only considered that area because the school was a center. I meet families who think the AAP program is too easy. I meet families who think the general ed program is too easy and not structured enough. I meet families that prep their kids for AAP and TJ. I meet families who tell stories about AAP kids being rude and overly competitive. Basically everything I read about AAP on DCUM exists in my real world.

[Anonymous]

FCAG has been posting about social issues in centers for years too. Here's an excerpt from 2006.

Develop a framework for constructive, two-way communication to aid schools in promoting a positive climate in GT center schools. The framework would provide a menu of options to allow GT center schools to customize their own program to meet the individual needs of the school. The framework should also address barriers that might prevent positive communication, suggest possible solutions to overcome the challenges, and include models of partnerships that may be useful.
Schools that host GT centers often face challenges in managing the expectations and communications between parents, teachers, administrators and students in a respectful, mutually cooperative manner. Although all schools must manage issues of climate, their complexity can be heightened in schools with GT centers. The administrators at GT center schools must address the often distinct needs of GT center and general education teachers and students as well as promote respectful interactions between center and non-center students.
Respect in GT center schools needs to be intentionally built with committed leadership that seeks to improve communication between all parties. Schools should integrate GT students and foster positive language choices and opportunities for interaction between students without teasing or bullying. Schools can also integrate center populations through team building among teachers and increased awareness of the benefits of this team building among parents.
It is suggested that a framework be formulated by consulting with a panel of principals, parents, and teachers from GT center schools that have successfully promoted integrated communities and positive climates. Based on these discussions, a framework of recommendations for creating and fostering a positive school climate would be developed to help manage these diverse expectations. This may include improved communication, affirmation of advanced academic achievement, stronger peer relationships between GT center and non GT center students, and others. Parent Teacher Associations may also serve as a bridge for better communication.

[Anonymous]

Re: framing, etc our center spent the 1st quarter of 3rd grade making clear to the AAP newbies that they were not there bc they were smarter than the kids in Gen Ed. Just that the learned a little differently. The principal told them @ orientation that there were kids in Gen Ed that spoke several languages- or that were navigating a new country like a boss (not exact words) - but you get the picture. Right off the bat, it was made clear that the AAP kids were not to consider themselves "special".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCAG has been posting about social issues in centers for years too. Here's an excerpt from 2006.

Develop a framework for constructive, two-way communication to aid schools in promoting a positive climate in GT center schools. The framework would provide a menu of options to allow GT center schools to customize their own program to meet the individual needs of the school. The framework should also address barriers that might prevent positive communication, suggest possible solutions to overcome the challenges, and include models of partnerships that may be useful.
Schools that host GT centers often face challenges in managing the expectations and communications between parents, teachers, administrators and students in a respectful, mutually cooperative manner. Although all schools must manage issues of climate, their complexity can be heightened in schools with GT centers. The administrators at GT center schools must address the often distinct needs of GT center and general education teachers and students as well as promote respectful interactions between center and non-center students.
Respect in GT center schools needs to be intentionally built with committed leadership that seeks to improve communication between all parties. Schools should integrate GT students and foster positive language choices and opportunities for interaction between students without teasing or bullying. Schools can also integrate center populations through team building among teachers and increased awareness of the benefits of this team building among parents.
It is suggested that a framework be formulated by consulting with a panel of principals, parents, and teachers from GT center schools that have successfully promoted integrated communities and positive climates. Based on these discussions, a framework of recommendations for creating and fostering a positive school climate would be developed to help manage these diverse expectations. This may include improved communication, affirmation of advanced academic achievement, stronger peer relationships between GT center and non GT center students, and others. Parent Teacher Associations may also serve as a bridge for better communication.

2006 was when the program was smaller and the positive relationships were related to AAP kids being bullied or isolated by base kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: homerooms. I am a PP whose 6th grade Center kid had a homeroom-- sort of. 3 AAP classes. One teacher for reading, one for math and one for science. So, each kid has a "primary teacher," who does morning meeting, primary parent contact, etc. That teacher teaches "her" class social studies plus her subject. So my DC had the same teacher for homeroom, social studies and science (the teacher's subject). And then rotated for math and reading. Went to lunch, assemblies, etc. with homeroom. We did the parent conference with the homeroom teacher, as well as the 504 planning. I'm not sure if this counts as homeroom or not, but it's called homeroom.

Also, re: lunch. Part of lunch is just pushing kids through as fast as possible. Our Center has trailers, and the school keeps growing, but the lunchroom does not. So, they have to serve lunch from 10:30-2:00. Lunch seems to be all about getting kids in and out as quickly as possible, in as organized a manner as possible, to maximize the lunchroom.

This is not a mixed homeroom. When do these kids ever interact with the general ed kids at your school?

I didn't say it was mixed. People asked how homerooms worked. I had posted above saying we had homerooms that we're not mixed, and that the "homeroom" pledge plus announcements piece of school was too short to deal with logistical concerns.

Where do they interact? My DC is in MS this year. And it changed some each year as they were trying to get the right fit. But in 6th, they had open seating lunch for 6th only-- which was a huge deal and big privilege for 6th grade. They also all hung out together outside or in the lobby (weather dependent) in the mornings before being released to classrooms. Recess, where most of the grade was outside at the same time. Specials, because these group by band/strings designation, not homeroom. SACC Obviously. And in the case of my DC, several after school and quasi school based activities (a school based scout troop, GOTR & Odyssey of the Mind-- all mixed). DD started this school in 4th (we moved) and not all of the friends she invited to her birthday from school were AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCAG has been posting about social issues in centers for years too. Here's an excerpt from 2006.

Develop a framework for constructive, two-way communication to aid schools in promoting a positive climate in GT center schools. The framework would provide a menu of options to allow GT center schools to customize their own program to meet the individual needs of the school. The framework should also address barriers that might prevent positive communication, suggest possible solutions to overcome the challenges, and include models of partnerships that may be useful.
Schools that host GT centers often face challenges in managing the expectations and communications between parents, teachers, administrators and students in a respectful, mutually cooperative manner. Although all schools must manage issues of climate, their complexity can be heightened in schools with GT centers. The administrators at GT center schools must address the often distinct needs of GT center and general education teachers and students as well as promote respectful interactions between center and non-center students.
Respect in GT center schools needs to be intentionally built with committed leadership that seeks to improve communication between all parties. Schools should integrate GT students and foster positive language choices and opportunities for interaction between students without teasing or bullying. Schools can also integrate center populations through team building among teachers and increased awareness of the benefits of this team building among parents.
It is suggested that a framework be formulated by consulting with a panel of principals, parents, and teachers from GT center schools that have successfully promoted integrated communities and positive climates. Based on these discussions, a framework of recommendations for creating and fostering a positive school climate would be developed to help manage these diverse expectations. This may include improved communication, affirmation of advanced academic achievement, stronger peer relationships between GT center and non GT center students, and others. Parent Teacher Associations may also serve as a bridge for better communication.

2006 was when the program was smaller and the positive relationships were related to AAP kids being bullied or isolated by base kids.

It wasn't that small of a program in 2006 and I think this comment was pertaining to all students. I agree though that both AAP and general ed students should integrate more and foster a positive school climate for all. Integration after school is an optional activity. Hanging out before school is an optional activity. SACC is an optional activity. Specials is the only school sponsored activity 22:00 mentioned other than possibly 10 minutes of recess together and 6th grade lunch. What are the center schools doing within the school hours to facilitate integration like was recommended by FCAG back in 2006? Many of the LLIV programs are now quite integrated after making a change to their scheduling. It's time for the center schools to step up.