How to improve AAP and General Ed Together

[Anonymous]

I don't understand the lunch/recess thing. How does that improve anyone's education? My kids left their Title 1 base school which had no Level IV option to go to a center and they made new friends. They see some old friends from their base school in their soccer leagues, at playdates, parties, neighborhood events, etc. Their very good friends are still their very good friends and FCPS didn't have to rearrange the school schedule to accommodate that. If we're talking about improving education, I don't see how this is a priority.

My children have never had 'homeroom' in elementary school. What does that even mean? Morning meeting? What do you hope to accomplish in that time?

Making Level 2 & 3 more standard sounds like a great idea to me. If the complaint is truly about meeting students where they are and challenging them at different levels - what is wrong with this? Some schools even have principal/teacher placement for Local IV for kids that didn't qualify with the screening process.

And what is your recommendation for improving Gen Ed besides eliminating AAP? Let's hypothetically say we reduce AAP to 5% of students by raising the benchmark test scores. When you say 'offer the current AAP to all" that would mean same curriculum, but go faster and deeper for everyone. So with 95% of kids left in Gen Ed....you expect that all or most will keep up? And that teachers will be able to differentiate for all of those kids - even though parents are complaining that even with the 'top' skimmed off, teachers are overwhelmed and unable to do this? and the kids that can't keep up, what happens to them? They get relegated to a program called "Remedial Education"? Talk about feeling stigmatized.

I've come across so many articles/books over recents years that talk about how bad it is for kids that we push them so young - "The Race to Nowhere" field of research. About how we pressure and push our kids to do so much and go so fast and for what? I can only imagine if the AAP curriculum and pace were implemented for everyone and the backlash that would cause - parents lamenting, "what are we doing to our kids?!"

The parents I know - and I don't live in a TJ manic neighborhood - did not talk about or lift a finger to 'push' their children into AAP. We just got letters in the mail and had a decision to make and not everyone's was an automatic yes. Most of us were hesitant because it meant leaving the base school, which we loved and didn't know what to expect. Some stayed, some went (we're talking a handful, not enough for a class at the base school) and as far as I know everyone feels like they made the right decision for their child. My experience IRL is worlds away from the drama I see on DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lunch and recess together promotes friendships between AAP and general ed students. It keeps kids from being in a bubble. It helps make a school more unified. No one said it improved a core subject. It was one suggestion out of several. It just seems the easiest to implement as a start.

Have you bothered to talk to the parents at the Title 1 base school now that the AAP kids are gone? Are they just as happy with those grades as they were with K-2? Does the school get as good reviews as your AAP center?

Yes, as a matter of fact, I have. I didn't purposefully seek them out to interview them, but we're still friends and so we talk and the parents I know are happy. There is an occasional complaint about specific teachers, usually regarding communication, but I hear that from AAP parents now and again as well. On the whole, parents at the base love the school.

The base school gets good parent reviews (do you mean online or personal?) The GreatSchools score is lower for the base than the center, but I suspect that is due to the higher FARMS and lower SOL pass rates. Still a solid school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All I'm seeing in this thread is 'how to placate Gen Ed parents so we can keep our AAP', not 'how to improve both'.

The suggestions by the pro AAP side are simply:

Let's mix them at lunch and recess.
Let's maybe add a homeroom time so our special children and socialize with the others.
Maybe some of those others can sit in on some of our kids' classes if they "can handle it".
Let's try to make Level II/III services more standard so there won't be so much focus on changing Level IV.


NONE of this improves Gen Ed.

I don't understand the lunch/recess thing. How does that improve anyone's education? My kids left their Title 1 base school which had no Level IV option to go to a center and they made new friends. They see some old friends from their base school in their soccer leagues, at playdates, parties, neighborhood events, etc. Their very good friends are still their very good friends and FCPS didn't have to rearrange the school schedule to accommodate that. If we're talking about improving education, I don't see how this is a priority.

My children have never had 'homeroom' in elementary school. What does that even mean? Morning meeting? What do you hope to accomplish in that time?

Making Level 2 & 3 more standard sounds like a great idea to me. If the complaint is truly about meeting students where they are and challenging them at different levels - what is wrong with this? Some schools even have principal/teacher placement for Local IV for kids that didn't qualify with the screening process.

And what is your recommendation for improving Gen Ed besides eliminating AAP? Let's hypothetically say we reduce AAP to 5% of students by raising the benchmark test scores. When you say 'offer the current AAP to all" that would mean same curriculum, but go faster and deeper for everyone. So with 95% of kids left in Gen Ed....you expect that all or most will keep up? And that teachers will be able to differentiate for all of those kids - even though parents are complaining that even with the 'top' skimmed off, teachers are overwhelmed and unable to do this? and the kids that can't keep up, what happens to them? They get relegated to a program called "Remedial Education"? Talk about feeling stigmatized.

I've come across so many articles/books over recents years that talk about how bad it is for kids that we push them so young - "The Race to Nowhere" field of research. About how we pressure and push our kids to do so much and go so fast and for what? I can only imagine if the AAP curriculum and pace were implemented for everyone and the backlash that would cause - parents lamenting, "what are we doing to our kids?!"

The parents I know - and I don't live in a TJ manic neighborhood - did not talk about or lift a finger to 'push' their children into AAP. We just got letters in the mail and had a decision to make and not everyone's was an automatic yes. Most of us were hesitant because it meant leaving the base school, which we loved and didn't know what to expect. Some stayed, some went (we're talking a handful, not enough for a class at the base school) and as far as I know everyone feels like they made the right decision for their child. My experience IRL is worlds away from the drama I see on DCUM.

What an excellent post.

You should repost it without the post so everyone can read it

Why is it such an excellent post? It isn't proposing any suggestions for improving AAP and general ed except having standards for Level 2 and Level 3. Great, but how should that be done? No specifics are listed. It's just one person's observations of their own child's experience. Big whoop. Reducing AAP to 5% is offered with no analysis as to why to do this. And they haven't said anything about how the base school kids not in AAP feel about being in a center, how large their center is, or how often their child mingles with non-AAP kids during the school day. Whether the school feels segregated. All people seem to do on this board is offer observations. No actual suggestions.

[Anonymous]

Can someone explain how homeroom works at their center school which mixes the kids for lunch, recess, and specials?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain how homeroom works at their center school which mixes the kids for lunch, recess, and specials?

It sounds like it is just one school and that person has been posting repeatedly, so I am sure she will happily explain it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All I'm seeing in this thread is 'how to placate Gen Ed parents so we can keep our AAP', not 'how to improve both'.

The suggestions by the pro AAP side are simply:

Let's mix them at lunch and recess.
Let's maybe add a homeroom time so our special children and socialize with the others.
Maybe some of those others can sit in on some of our kids' classes if they "can handle it".
Let's try to make Level II/III services more standard so there won't be so much focus on changing Level IV.


NONE of this improves Gen Ed.

I don't understand the lunch/recess thing. How does that improve anyone's education? My kids left their Title 1 base school which had no Level IV option to go to a center and they made new friends. They see some old friends from their base school in their soccer leagues, at playdates, parties, neighborhood events, etc. Their very good friends are still their very good friends and FCPS didn't have to rearrange the school schedule to accommodate that. If we're talking about improving education, I don't see how this is a priority.

My children have never had 'homeroom' in elementary school. What does that even mean? Morning meeting? What do you hope to accomplish in that time?

Making Level 2 & 3 more standard sounds like a great idea to me. If the complaint is truly about meeting students where they are and challenging them at different levels - what is wrong with this? Some schools even have principal/teacher placement for Local IV for kids that didn't qualify with the screening process.

And what is your recommendation for improving Gen Ed besides eliminating AAP? Let's hypothetically say we reduce AAP to 5% of students by raising the benchmark test scores. When you say 'offer the current AAP to all" that would mean same curriculum, but go faster and deeper for everyone. So with 95% of kids left in Gen Ed....you expect that all or most will keep up? And that teachers will be able to differentiate for all of those kids - even though parents are complaining that even with the 'top' skimmed off, teachers are overwhelmed and unable to do this? and the kids that can't keep up, what happens to them? They get relegated to a program called "Remedial Education"? Talk about feeling stigmatized.

I've come across so many articles/books over recents years that talk about how bad it is for kids that we push them so young - "The Race to Nowhere" field of research. About how we pressure and push our kids to do so much and go so fast and for what? I can only imagine if the AAP curriculum and pace were implemented for everyone and the backlash that would cause - parents lamenting, "what are we doing to our kids?!"

The parents I know - and I don't live in a TJ manic neighborhood - did not talk about or lift a finger to 'push' their children into AAP. We just got letters in the mail and had a decision to make and not everyone's was an automatic yes. Most of us were hesitant because it meant leaving the base school, which we loved and didn't know what to expect. Some stayed, some went (we're talking a handful, not enough for a class at the base school) and as far as I know everyone feels like they made the right decision for their child. My experience IRL is worlds away from the drama I see on DCUM.

What an excellent post.

You should repost it without the post so everyone can read it

Why is it such an excellent post? It isn't proposing any suggestions for improving AAP and general ed except having standards for Level 2 and Level 3. Great, but how should that be done? No specifics are listed. It's just one person's observations of their own child's experience. Big whoop. Reducing AAP to 5% is offered with no analysis as to why to do this. And they haven't said anything about how the base school kids not in AAP feel about being in a center, how large their center is, or how often their child mingles with non-AAP kids during the school day. Whether the school feels segregated. All people seem to do on this board is offer observations. No actual suggestions.

Redusing AAP to a very small percentage (top 5%) has been proposed ad nauseam by the "AAP IS BS" camp. With NO analysis as to how or why to do this. I'm asking those who have proposed this some questions. Any answers?

[Anonymous]

OP here. I'm at a LLIV school that has a homeroom, but in case there's a difference I don't want to reference it. I'd rather the person with the 6th grader who has a homeroom talk about the center experience or someone else. I know our center has homerooms as well, but don't know the specifics of how it is structured.

What I was hoping to get rather than anecdotal references were some evidence based opinions on how to make AAP and general ed stronger and less divisive. Just looking on the VA schools page, there's a person looking to buy a home with a 3 year old and are concerned about grades 3-6th because of the AAP program. How can the program be changed so that this person isn't so concerned about the elementary school she's buying into?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm at a LLIV school that has a homeroom, but in case there's a difference I don't want to reference it. I'd rather the person with the 6th grader who has a homeroom talk about the center experience or someone else. I know our center has homerooms as well, but don't know the specifics of how it is structured.

What I was hoping to get rather than anecdotal references were some evidence based opinions on how to make AAP and general ed stronger and less divisive. Just looking on the VA schools page, there's a person looking to buy a home with a 3 year old and are concerned about grades 3-6th because of the AAP program. How can the program be changed so that this person isn't so concerned about the elementary school she's buying into?

I think if the crazies quit harping constantly about AAP then it becomes less of an issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm at a LLIV school that has a homeroom, but in case there's a difference I don't want to reference it. I'd rather the person with the 6th grader who has a homeroom talk about the center experience or someone else. I know our center has homerooms as well, but don't know the specifics of how it is structured.

What I was hoping to get rather than anecdotal references were some evidence based opinions on how to make AAP and general ed stronger and less divisive. Just looking on the VA schools page, there's a person looking to buy a home with a 3 year old and are concerned about grades 3-6th because of the AAP program. How can the program be changed so that this person isn't so concerned about the elementary school she's buying into?

I think if the crazies quit harping constantly about AAP then it becomes less of an issue.

And calling those that are seriously concerned with the AAP madness that has turned into a huge problem within FCPS "crazies" will surely resolve it all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm at a LLIV school that has a homeroom, but in case there's a difference I don't want to reference it. I'd rather the person with the 6th grader who has a homeroom talk about the center experience or someone else. I know our center has homerooms as well, but don't know the specifics of how it is structured.

What I was hoping to get rather than anecdotal references were some evidence based opinions on how to make AAP and general ed stronger and less divisive. Just looking on the VA schools page, there's a person looking to buy a home with a 3 year old and are concerned about grades 3-6th because of the AAP program. How can the program be changed so that this person isn't so concerned about the elementary school she's buying into?

I think if the crazies quit harping constantly about AAP then it becomes less of an issue.

oh geez, everyone's "evidence" is based on their own experience, OP. And I 2nd PP above. The only problem is AAP are the crazies harping on it. The end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm at a LLIV school that has a homeroom, but in case there's a difference I don't want to reference it. I'd rather the person with the 6th grader who has a homeroom talk about the center experience or someone else. I know our center has homerooms as well, but don't know the specifics of how it is structured.

What I was hoping to get rather than anecdotal references were some evidence based opinions on how to make AAP and general ed stronger and less divisive. Just looking on the VA schools page, there's a person looking to buy a home with a 3 year old and are concerned about grades 3-6th because of the AAP program. How can the program be changed so that this person isn't so concerned about the elementary school she's buying into?

Why don't you request from FCPS all the evidence they used to design the current AAP model and the screening process? They'd be able to hand you a field of research and data to support how and why the program exists they way it does. That should keep you busy for awhile.

All the complainers on this board have nothing to base their claims on except the anecdotal experiences of their own children. and the like minded parents whining around them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm at a LLIV school that has a homeroom, but in case there's a difference I don't want to reference it. I'd rather the person with the 6th grader who has a homeroom talk about the center experience or someone else. I know our center has homerooms as well, but don't know the specifics of how it is structured.

What I was hoping to get rather than anecdotal references were some evidence based opinions on how to make AAP and general ed stronger and less divisive. Just looking on the VA schools page, there's a person looking to buy a home with a 3 year old and are concerned about grades 3-6th because of the AAP program. How can the program be changed so that this person isn't so concerned about the elementary school she's buying into?

I think if the crazies quit harping constantly about AAP then it becomes less of an issue.

the program should NOT be changed for a crazy person worried that her 3 yr old won't make it in to AAP. she should buy somewhere else.

[Anonymous]

Come on. Your kids have to write opinions all the time. It's what critical thinking is all about. If you don't think anything should change, why are you on here? If you do, please make a suggestion and back it up with evidence including hopefully evidence that involves other families in addition to your own.

[Anonymous]

My family's experience does not exist in a vacuum. My family is not so special that we are the only ones with this experience. Many, many parents have similar experiences as mine . I cannot quantify how many, but neither can ANYONE making any claims on this board. What percentage of children feel stigmatized? For all we know it's only anecdotal and it's only the posters here on this board . What percentage of parents feel that their children are not being appropriately challenged in general education? Can you quantify that with evidence? No. It's only anecdotal "evidence" on this board .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: My family's experience does not exist in a vacuum. My family is not so special that we are the only ones with this experience. Many, many parents have similar experiences as mine . I cannot quantify how many, but neither can ANYONE making any claims on this board. What percentage of children feel stigmatized? For all we know it's only anecdotal and it's only the posters here on this board . What percentage of parents feel that their children are not being appropriately challenged in general education? Can you quantify that with evidence? No. It's only anecdotal "evidence" on this board .

It is not anecdotal that there exists issues within AAP. There is enough data showing people make decisions on housing based on the AAP program even which county to buy in. There is enough data showing that many general ed parents are unhappy with the current curriculum offered to their children and the stigma their children receive that they aren't smart. There is enough data showing schools with low numbers of AAP students are not as highly rated.

I find it hard to believe that in all your dealings with people, you've never come across anyone other than on this board who has a general ed student at any school who doesn't like the current setup. I don't think you're trying very hard to find anyone who has a different opinion.