How to improve AAP and General Ed Together

[Anonymous]

Yes. Let's just spend our time venting back and forth. It's so much more productive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To me, OP sounds like a very young person with no practical experience or understanding, who just likes to hear themselves talk and come up with "arguments," as if this is all abstract.

I'll throw out your whole premise now, OP. People need to stop worrying about AAP, stop using it as a scapegoat for all the problems that plague the average student in gen ed, and concentrate on how to fix those problems in gen ed. Hint: it does not involve singing kumbaya with AAP students at lunch or killing off the AAP center program.

Op here. This is all abstract. We aren't on a committee.

[Anonymous]

OP Why don't you start a thread in the VA schools.forum asking GE parents what is wrong with gen ed and how they would want to improve gen ed?

Because I can tell you as a parent whose kids are both gen ed, your premise that fixing gen ed is an AAP problem is quite insulting.

It is so condescending and arrogant to act like the only place to solve gen ed is in the AAP forum and by AAP.parents, many of whom don't even have kids in gen ed.

If gen ed is as bad as you say it is, and their teachers so inferior, with all the gen ed kids feeling pushed down and stupid, then it is a problem best addressed by the parents of gen ed.

Or I guess you think the the only valid opinions are the AAP parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me, OP sounds like a very young person with no practical experience or understanding, who just likes to hear themselves talk and come up with "arguments," as if this is all abstract.

I'll throw out your whole premise now, OP. People need to stop worrying about AAP, stop using it as a scapegoat for all the problems that plague the average student in gen ed, and concentrate on how to fix those problems in gen ed. Hint: it does not involve singing kumbaya with AAP students at lunch or killing off the AAP center program.

Op here. This is all abstract. We aren't on a committee.

Finally. Sorry, OP but there is a foundation of naïve yet bossy optimism underlying this thread that you're probably just too close to notice. Glad you can appreciate that this is not an FCPS working group and you are not overseeing a team of underlings. It's an internet thread in a notoriously mix-it-up forum. If you are sincerely looking for ideas, take what bright scraps you can find and stop worrying about steering the conversation. It's out of your hands.

[Anonymous]

Op here. My kids are in AAP so I only know about general Ed from 3rd grade on from others. They are the ones saying there are issues. To what extent I'm not sure. I said earlier this could be placed in either forum. My personal belief is that any fix requires the cooperation of AAP and general Ed parents. And I think fcps adminostrators and the school board skips over threads like sound off if you think AAP is bs because there are no solutions offered and discussed. On threads where people talk in a civil tone and are willing to listen to both sides I've actually seen fcps make changed based on scum threads.

Like I said earlier though this ain't my immediate problem so no I don't need everyone to hear me. I was just trying to facilitate civil and thoughtful discussion. I'll take a break and see if anyone wants to come forward and discussed and if so I'll chime in. I've already said enough so hopefully both sides can work things out from hereon out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Op here. My kids are in AAP so I only know about general Ed from 3rd grade on from others. They are the ones saying there are issues. To what extent I'm not sure. I said earlier this could be placed in either forum. My personal belief is that any fix requires the cooperation of AAP and general Ed parents. And I think fcps adminostrators and the school board skips over threads like sound off if you think AAP is bs because there are no solutions offered and discussed. On threads where people talk in a civil tone and are willing to listen to both sides I've actually seen fcps make changed based on scum threads.

Like I said earlier though this ain't my immediate problem so no I don't need everyone to hear me. I was just trying to facilitate civil and thoughtful discussion. I'll take a break and see if anyone wants to come forward and discussed and if so I'll chime in. I've already said enough so hopefully both sides can work things out from hereon out.

Lol, stay gold OP.

[Anonymous]

Well someone else said before that I'm bossy naive and optimistic. I think it's pretty accurate. I did try to take charge of a thread to change the status quo venting. I am naive and realize that I don't know everything and think fcps will listen if enough people speak civilly and I am optimistic that change can happen. If you disagree there are now thousands of pro and anti AAP threads you can join instead.

[Anonymous]

So far this thread has discussed mixed lunch and recess, standardization of level 3 AAP, letting general Ed kids switch to base schools. What other ideas are out there. Did I miss any?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP Why don't you start a thread in the VA schools.forum asking GE parents what is wrong with gen ed and how they would want to improve gen ed?

Because I can tell you as a parent whose kids are both gen ed, your premise that fixing gen ed is an AAP problem is quite insulting.

It is so condescending and arrogant to act like the only place to solve gen ed is in the AAP forum and by AAP.parents, many of whom don't even have kids in gen ed.

If gen ed is as bad as you say it is, and their teachers so inferior, with all the gen ed kids feeling pushed down and stupid, then it is a problem best addressed by the parents of gen ed.

Or I guess you think the the only valid opinions are the AAP parents.

This is an excellent point and I was thinking the same thing myself. Why are we asking AAP parents how to fix Gen Ed? I especially love it when good suggestions are made, such as letting Gen Ed kids choose their school, just as AAP kids can choose theirs... and then the AAP parents chime in with, "Well I'd be ok with that..." as if we're actually running it by them to get their approval?? Uh... no.

I've tried starting threads on the VA Schools forum, looking for input from Gen Ed parents, but if AAP is even mentioned, the thread always gets moved over here. We should be able to discuss Gen Ed and how AAP/center schools impact our kids without having to run it by the parents on this forum.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If you're going to make a suggestion, I just ask that you give at least anecdotal evidence that shows support for both general ed and AAP. Sorry if that was confusing.

Meet the needs of the student in the program they are receiving services from in the building where it is a best fit for them.

So then, Gen Ed kids who attend centers should be given the choice of attending a different base school that is not a center. Fair is fair, right?

In some cases, why not? If a child's mental or emotional health is truly jeopardized by being outnumbered by AAP kids, it's an issue worthy of a solution. If allowing such a move also relieves some of the parental friction at the center, all the better.

There has not been one person who has disagreed with this suggestion, AAP or non AAP.

OP here. Great. A suggestion to allow base school center kids to go to a different school. I appreciate that you are trying to offer solutions. I think this could help some general ed students and hurt others. I don't really see it affecting AAP kids too much. The only problem I see with this suggestion is that it possibly creates issues for FCPS with boundaries and bussing. Even if they could move, base schools are allowed to have LLIV programs, so would that always solve the issue? Would they always have enough space? I don't know. I would hope that instead of trying to separate AAP and general ed further, that the programs could be more integrated which was the whole reason I started this thread. Also, some parents want to have level 2 and 3 AAP integrated more with level IV students, so separating AAP and general ed further could backfire and those students could get less enrichment than they do now. It's worth bringing up to the school board though if the AAP parents and principals won't agree to make any changes at center schools for the level 2 and 3 students and general ed students.

Are level 2 and 3 students considered AAP or general ed? FCAG and the advanced academic committee touches on them slightly but I mostly read about them here as part of general ed. I have two kids in level IV AAP so I don't know all of the issues within level 2 and level 3 instruction. I've heard enough people complain about it and can see the difference in curriculum myself, so I partially understand when they complain or request change.

One other suggestion I was going to make - I had been waiting till this group listed the problems (yes I have other suggestions besides integrated lunch and recess) would be to have a general education advisory committee. There is one for advanced academics, special education, title 1, minorities, etc. Why not have one for general ed? Their purpose could be to review the local plan for general education. That group could then put out a report of recommendations for the general education curriculum and between them and the advanced academic committee, there might be enough recommendations to help level 2 and level 3 academics. They could also make recommendations on boundary changes to help general ed populations at schools.

https://www.fcps.edu/search?keywords=committee

This is a very revealing post OP. It's clear that your vision of a single solution that helps both APP and Gen Ed involves their greater or total integration. You say so right in your post as bolded above. That's a perfectly valid opinion, so there's no point pretending that you have no ideal end in mind, even if many think it's not a winner. If you'd said this up front, it may have been a very different thread. Instead, you are picking apart others' comments which don't serve this unstated end. Again, this post is a good illustration. You sort of brush off the idea of allowing some Gen Ed kids to evacuate their center because you "don't really see it affecting AAP kids too much" Yet in the same post your propose a "Gen Ed Advisory Committee" which arguably would affect AAP kids even less. Again, nothing wrong with the idea but it doesn't quite fit the criteria you are expecting others to deliver for your review.

I agree. Gen Ed students should absolutely be allowed to leave their center for the next closest school, if they so choose - just as AAP students are allowed to leave their base school for the nearest center. OP, I think you mean well, but you're not really understanding that many of these issues won't be fixed simply by integrating these kids a little more at lunch and recess. I do think that should have been done long ago, in the form of mixed homerooms. Some posters are insisting, very oddly, that this simply would never work, and it's clear they don't *want* it to work.

For once, we need to focus on what would work for the Gen Ed kids, and only the Gen Ed kids. AAP kids have been given their choice of schools and provided transportation to either school, for years and years. The scales have been imbalanced from the beginning. Maybe instead of trying to find solutions that work for everyone, we should instead be looking at what families of Gen Ed kids want and need and have been asking for for a long time - equity in choosing the school that works for them, just as AAP kids can do.

YES YES and YES. Why are we trying to find a solution that works for AAP kids, when it appears they already have one? Time to focus on GenEd kids and their needs, for crying out loud.

[Anonymous]

It gets dragged into AAP when Gen Ed parents blame the very existence of AAP on everything that is wrong in Gen Ed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To me, OP sounds like a very young person with no practical experience or understanding, who just likes to hear themselves talk and come up with "arguments," as if this is all abstract.

I'll throw out your whole premise now, OP. People need to stop worrying about AAP, stop using it as a scapegoat for all the problems that plague the average student in gen ed, and concentrate on how to fix those problems in gen ed. Hint: it does not involve singing kumbaya with AAP students at lunch or killing off the AAP center program.

+1 Worry about yourself!

[Anonymous]

OP again. For a third time I said the thread could be moved but then no one agreed so I didn't bother reporting it. I started it here because most of the discussion about problems with AAP have been with level 2 and 3 kids not getting enough enrichment. They are AAP kids after all and as far as I can tell there are just as many general Ed parents here as AAP parents. It wasnt meant to be responses exclusively from AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So far this thread has discussed mixed lunch and recess, standardization of level 3 AAP, letting general Ed kids switch to base schools. What other ideas are out there. Did I miss any?

Other suggestions were standardizing advanced math and creating a General Ed advisory committee.