How to improve AAP and General Ed Together

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCAG has been posting about social issues in centers for years too. Here's an excerpt from 2006.

Develop a framework for constructive, two-way communication to aid schools in promoting a positive climate in GT center schools. The framework would provide a menu of options to allow GT center schools to customize their own program to meet the individual needs of the school. The framework should also address barriers that might prevent positive communication, suggest possible solutions to overcome the challenges, and include models of partnerships that may be useful.
Schools that host GT centers often face challenges in managing the expectations and communications between parents, teachers, administrators and students in a respectful, mutually cooperative manner. Although all schools must manage issues of climate, their complexity can be heightened in schools with GT centers. The administrators at GT center schools must address the often distinct needs of GT center and general education teachers and students as well as promote respectful interactions between center and non-center students.
Respect in GT center schools needs to be intentionally built with committed leadership that seeks to improve communication between all parties. Schools should integrate GT students and foster positive language choices and opportunities for interaction between students without teasing or bullying. Schools can also integrate center populations through team building among teachers and increased awareness of the benefits of this team building among parents.
It is suggested that a framework be formulated by consulting with a panel of principals, parents, and teachers from GT center schools that have successfully promoted integrated communities and positive climates. Based on these discussions, a framework of recommendations for creating and fostering a positive school climate would be developed to help manage these diverse expectations. This may include improved communication, affirmation of advanced academic achievement, stronger peer relationships between GT center and non GT center students, and others. Parent Teacher Associations may also serve as a bridge for better communication.

2006 was when the program was smaller and the positive relationships were related to AAP kids being bullied or isolated by base kids.

It wasn't that small of a program in 2006 and I think this comment was pertaining to all students. I agree though that both AAP and general ed students should integrate more and foster a positive school climate for all. Integration after school is an optional activity. Hanging out before school is an optional activity. SACC is an optional activity. Specials is the only school sponsored activity 22:00 mentioned other than possibly 10 minutes of recess together and 6th grade lunch. What are the center schools doing within the school hours to facilitate integration like was recommended by FCAG back in 2006? Many of the LLIV programs are now quite integrated after making a change to their scheduling. It's time for the center schools to step up.

Where do YOU suggest they do this? Besides before school, after school, lunch, recess, specials, SACC-- aren't kids meant to be in a classroom learning?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks seem to be thinking that heavenly manna is being dished out in the AAP classes. That ain't so. Believe me, the upper limit to what's being offered isn't that much higher than in GE.

Which will, of course, trigger a response along the lines of "if it's not much different, why not let all children have access to it." You can't win for trying on this board.

Still haven't heard a coherent, logical reason from any AAP parents as to why all children should not have access to it. Yes, there are some kids for whom an advanced curriculum wouldn't be appropriate. But no one really knows who can do what - unless and until the work is there for them to do in the first place.

Lol, get over yourself. No AAP parent needs to justify their child's education or owes you an explanation for how the county runs its schools. No statement by an AAP parent is going to change anything and anyway won't ever be considered "coherent and logical" unless it wholly agrees with you. As has been said again and again, all children have the opportunity to qualify for AAP, i.e., "access". Moreover, advanced curriculum is anyone's for the asking as soon as 7th grade. If you really want more information why your child can or can't be in AAP call FCPS. If you just want to try and fail to make other parents feel bad, just keep doing what you're doing, I guess.

So in other words, there is no reason AAP couldn't be offered to any child able to do the work, without having to test into it. You just don't want FCPS to do this, but can't articulate why. I think we all know why. Thanks for your "input."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Again. The homeroom class should be mixed and that homeroom class should go to lunch and recess together. I don't see any reason why this can't happen. Make it a scheduling priority like so many other schools do.

Not all schools employ home rooms. Our base school only used them for sixth graders.

Exactly. I think this needs to be changed to ensure kids are mixed for lunch and recess. Most schools do use a homeroom class for this reason. There's no reason I see that the other schools can't.

I agree. Our center uses homerooms, but they are all segregated between Gen Ed and AAP. I can't for the life of me understand why homerooms aren't mixed. They all break up to move into different subjects after homeroom is over, so there is absolutely no need for them to be divided by Gen Ed and AAP. It's just one more way the school is reinforcing the divide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Again. The homeroom class should be mixed and that homeroom class should go to lunch and recess together. I don't see any reason why this can't happen. Make it a scheduling priority like so many other schools do.

Not all schools employ home rooms. Our base school only used them for sixth graders.

Exactly. I think this needs to be changed to ensure kids are mixed for lunch and recess. Most schools do use a homeroom class for this reason. There's no reason I see that the other schools can't.

Most schools do not employ homerooms during elementary school.

My kids have attended three FCPS elementary schools, and all employed homerooms. They switched classes for every subject, but homeroom was always fixed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Again. The homeroom class should be mixed and that homeroom class should go to lunch and recess together. I don't see any reason why this can't happen. Make it a scheduling priority like so many other schools do.

Not all schools employ home rooms. Our base school only used them for sixth graders.

Exactly. I think this needs to be changed to ensure kids are mixed for lunch and recess. Most schools do use a homeroom class for this reason. There's no reason I see that the other schools can't.

Why should it change?

Adding extra homeroom to run during the hour plus that each grade has for lunch takes away from class time.

In elementary there is no real reason to have homeroom outside the assigned class. All you need is the ten minutes or so of "morning meeting" or whatever the school calls their beginning of the day time.

It should change because there have been complaints about the program for years. So much so that people are asking the school board to get rid of AAP. Instead of getting rid of the program, how about making some changes to both programs so they are more integrated and so the curriculum is improved for both? That's what this thread is about.

The person before said their 6th grade had a homeroom and those kids had lunch together. So why not 3rd, 4th, and 5th grade? Our school does it for all grades. Why can't these particular center schools? It would allow more friendships to form. And would allow the base school kids to stay better friends with the kids they met in K-2. I think it's awful a K-2 student attends a base school and then can barely ever see their friends in school because of an AAP or general ed label.

I'm not even going to respond to the person who blames where someone bought a house. Boundaries move all the time and all schools should be good enough for our students to attend at any intelligence level.

Re: the bolded - this also goes for kids whose base school is the center. My son was best friends with another boy from K-2. In 3rd, his friend went into AAP and my son stayed in Gen Ed. They're now in 6th grade and barely friends anymore, simply because they never see one another - even at the same school. Their homerooms are never the same (segregated AAP/GE) and they've rarely shared the same specials. Had classes been mixed, they would probably have continued their close friendship. There's just no opportunity to see one another during the school day due to the division of AAP and Gen Ed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And if your lunch isn't mixed, recess isn't very mixed either. The classes are staggered so some kids would barely see each other at recess even in the same grade. Eating and playing with your homeroom would fix both lunch and recess. From what I can tell it's this way at many schools including center schools and it helps integrate the kids better creating less of an us and them at the school. If there's a reason not to do it, please state it. Otherwise, I don't see why this shouldn't be a standard at all schools.

+1000
Mixing homerooms is not done at our school (a center) and would have made a huge difference if it had. Sadly, it's most definitely an "us and them" dynamic. There are AAP homerooms and GE homerooms, and everyone is well aware the two will not be mixing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm at a LLIV school that has a homeroom, but in case there's a difference I don't want to reference it. I'd rather the person with the 6th grader who has a homeroom talk about the center experience or someone else. I know our center has homerooms as well, but don't know the specifics of how it is structured.

What I was hoping to get rather than anecdotal references were some evidence based opinions on how to make AAP and general ed stronger and less divisive. Just looking on the VA schools page, there's a person looking to buy a home with a 3 year old and are concerned about grades 3-6th because of the AAP program. How can the program be changed so that this person isn't so concerned about the elementary school she's buying into?

I think if the crazies quit harping constantly about AAP then it becomes less of an issue.

And calling those that are seriously concerned with the AAP madness that has turned into a huge problem within FCPS "crazies" will surely resolve it all.

Yep. Calling those of us who are concerned and/or disgusted with the way in which AAP is currently implemented "crazies," is simply a crude attempt to dismiss us and keep the status quo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm at a LLIV school that has a homeroom, but in case there's a difference I don't want to reference it. I'd rather the person with the 6th grader who has a homeroom talk about the center experience or someone else. I know our center has homerooms as well, but don't know the specifics of how it is structured.

What I was hoping to get rather than anecdotal references were some evidence based opinions on how to make AAP and general ed stronger and less divisive. Just looking on the VA schools page, there's a person looking to buy a home with a 3 year old and are concerned about grades 3-6th because of the AAP program. How can the program be changed so that this person isn't so concerned about the elementary school she's buying into?

Why don't you request from FCPS all the evidence they used to design the current AAP model and the screening process? They'd be able to hand you a field of research and data to support how and why the program exists they way it does. That should keep you busy for awhile.

All the complainers on this board have nothing to base their claims on except the anecdotal experiences of their own children. and the like minded parents whining around them.

Right, and we all know the "anecdotal experiences" of our own children are completely irrelevant. Oh, unless, of course it's the anecdotal experiences of your AAP kids. Then we must take them very, very seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: My family's experience does not exist in a vacuum. My family is not so special that we are the only ones with this experience. Many, many parents have similar experiences as mine . I cannot quantify how many, but neither can ANYONE making any claims on this board. What percentage of children feel stigmatized? For all we know it's only anecdotal and it's only the posters here on this board . What percentage of parents feel that their children are not being appropriately challenged in general education? Can you quantify that with evidence? No. It's only anecdotal "evidence" on this board .

It is not anecdotal that there exists issues within AAP. There is enough data showing people make decisions on housing based on the AAP program even which county to buy in. There is enough data showing that many general ed parents are unhappy with the current curriculum offered to their children and the stigma their children receive that they aren't smart. There is enough data showing schools with low numbers of AAP students are not as highly rated.

I find it hard to believe that in all your dealings with people, you've never come across anyone other than on this board who has a general ed student at any school who doesn't like the current setup. I don't think you're trying very hard to find anyone who has a different opinion.

EXACTLY. +100

What I find on this board is that certain arrogant AAP parents will spin things any which way so as to make school appear rosy for all kids. They dismiss those of us with criticisms of the program as "crazies," and desperately avoid acknowledging any problems with AAP implementation, because they are so fearful of any changes being made. There are so, so many dissatisfied parents out there who have never even heard of DCUM - the ones here are only a tiny fraction of those who feel AAP has been detrimental to their schools and community. All one needs to do is ask parents of Gen Ed students, particularly those who have to attend centers as their base school. The parents I respect are the ones who admit that AAP implementation is not a good situation for many kids - namely, those who aren't in AAP and who are largely dismissed by the parents of those who are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: homerooms. I am a PP whose 6th grade Center kid had a homeroom-- sort of. 3 AAP classes. One teacher for reading, one for math and one for science. So, each kid has a "primary teacher," who does morning meeting, primary parent contact, etc. That teacher teaches "her" class social studies plus her subject. So my DC had the same teacher for homeroom, social studies and science (the teacher's subject). And then rotated for math and reading. Went to lunch, assemblies, etc. with homeroom. We did the parent conference with the homeroom teacher, as well as the 504 planning. I'm not sure if this counts as homeroom or not, but it's called homeroom.

Also, re: lunch. Part of lunch is just pushing kids through as fast as possible. Our Center has trailers, and the school keeps growing, but the lunchroom does not. So, they have to serve lunch from 10:30-2:00. Lunch seems to be all about getting kids in and out as quickly as possible, in as organized a manner as possible, to maximize the lunchroom.

This is not a mixed homeroom. When do these kids ever interact with the general ed kids at your school?

Not the PP, but this setup describes our homerooms too - not mixed at all. The AAP and Gen Ed kids don't interact at all, unless they're in a special, and even then, there's not much "interaction." It's all just lip service to say they "mix."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm so happy that in one part of FCPS everything is going so well. Where I live, I meet families all the time who move their kid to private because they didn't get into AAP. I meet families who send kids to private until their child gets into AAP. I meet families who have kids in AAP and act like they don't care nor ever will care about the general ed kids at the school. I meet families who are upset that there aren't enough kids to have an advanced math group at the base school or after school activities. I meet families who are worried about their school's reviews because the number of children below grade level is increasing since all the smart kids go to the center. I meet families who didn't move within a school boundary because that school had AAP or only considered that area because the school was a center. I meet families who think the AAP program is too easy. I meet families who think the general ed program is too easy and not structured enough. I meet families that prep their kids for AAP and TJ. I meet families who tell stories about AAP kids being rude and overly competitive. Basically everything I read about AAP on DCUM exists in my real world.

Same here. Well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCAG has been posting about social issues in centers for years too. Here's an excerpt from 2006.

Develop a framework for constructive, two-way communication to aid schools in promoting a positive climate in GT center schools. The framework would provide a menu of options to allow GT center schools to customize their own program to meet the individual needs of the school. The framework should also address barriers that might prevent positive communication, suggest possible solutions to overcome the challenges, and include models of partnerships that may be useful.
Schools that host GT centers often face challenges in managing the expectations and communications between parents, teachers, administrators and students in a respectful, mutually cooperative manner. Although all schools must manage issues of climate, their complexity can be heightened in schools with GT centers. The administrators at GT center schools must address the often distinct needs of GT center and general education teachers and students as well as promote respectful interactions between center and non-center students.
Respect in GT center schools needs to be intentionally built with committed leadership that seeks to improve communication between all parties. Schools should integrate GT students and foster positive language choices and opportunities for interaction between students without teasing or bullying. Schools can also integrate center populations through team building among teachers and increased awareness of the benefits of this team building among parents.
It is suggested that a framework be formulated by consulting with a panel of principals, parents, and teachers from GT center schools that have successfully promoted integrated communities and positive climates. Based on these discussions, a framework of recommendations for creating and fostering a positive school climate would be developed to help manage these diverse expectations. This may include improved communication, affirmation of advanced academic achievement, stronger peer relationships between GT center and non GT center students, and others. Parent Teacher Associations may also serve as a bridge for better communication.

Ha - I had to laugh at this line: "Schools should integrate GT students and foster positive language choices and opportunities for interaction between students without teasing or bullying." Nowadays, it's not the AAP kids who have to be "integrated" into the school - it's the Gen Ed kids. AAP kids are the majority in many centers, for crying out loud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCAG has been posting about social issues in centers for years too. Here's an excerpt from 2006.

Develop a framework for constructive, two-way communication to aid schools in promoting a positive climate in GT center schools. The framework would provide a menu of options to allow GT center schools to customize their own program to meet the individual needs of the school. The framework should also address barriers that might prevent positive communication, suggest possible solutions to overcome the challenges, and include models of partnerships that may be useful.
Schools that host GT centers often face challenges in managing the expectations and communications between parents, teachers, administrators and students in a respectful, mutually cooperative manner. Although all schools must manage issues of climate, their complexity can be heightened in schools with GT centers. The administrators at GT center schools must address the often distinct needs of GT center and general education teachers and students as well as promote respectful interactions between center and non-center students.
Respect in GT center schools needs to be intentionally built with committed leadership that seeks to improve communication between all parties. Schools should integrate GT students and foster positive language choices and opportunities for interaction between students without teasing or bullying. Schools can also integrate center populations through team building among teachers and increased awareness of the benefits of this team building among parents.
It is suggested that a framework be formulated by consulting with a panel of principals, parents, and teachers from GT center schools that have successfully promoted integrated communities and positive climates. Based on these discussions, a framework of recommendations for creating and fostering a positive school climate would be developed to help manage these diverse expectations. This may include improved communication, affirmation of advanced academic achievement, stronger peer relationships between GT center and non GT center students, and others. Parent Teacher Associations may also serve as a bridge for better communication.

2006 was when the program was smaller and the positive relationships were related to AAP kids being bullied or isolated by base kids.

This is most definitely not the case now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Again. The homeroom class should be mixed and that homeroom class should go to lunch and recess together. I don't see any reason why this can't happen. Make it a scheduling priority like so many other schools do.

Not all schools employ home rooms. Our base school only used them for sixth graders.

Exactly. I think this needs to be changed to ensure kids are mixed for lunch and recess. Most schools do use a homeroom class for this reason. There's no reason I see that the other schools can't.

Most schools do not employ homerooms during elementary school.

My kids have attended three FCPS elementary schools, and all employed homerooms. They switched classes for every subject, but homeroom was always fixed.

That's nice. My kids have attended five FCPS elementary schools (three base without LLIV and two centers), and none employed homerooms. They also did not necessarily team teach or switch classes for subjects. FCPS is a large system, and the schools do vary quite a bit, and also change as principals and teachers come and go. We've gone to mostly the poorer elementaries in the county, on the low side in scores, and found the people a lot more low-key and pleasant, whether they're in the AAP center or gen ed. I'd felt a bit sad that we couldn't put our kids in the best elementaries, but considering how bitter, grim, entitled, and status-hungry you lot at the highest SES schools are, I'm glad not to be part of that. We parents hang out as our kids take part in activities, and no one discusses who's in what program. That's considered gauche and divisive. Maybe the biggest problem at some of these AAP centers is you, the parents. ALL of you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Again. The homeroom class should be mixed and that homeroom class should go to lunch and recess together. I don't see any reason why this can't happen. Make it a scheduling priority like so many other schools do.

Not all schools employ home rooms. Our base school only used them for sixth graders.

Exactly. I think this needs to be changed to ensure kids are mixed for lunch and recess. Most schools do use a homeroom class for this reason. There's no reason I see that the other schools can't.

Most schools do not employ homerooms during elementary school.

My kids have attended three FCPS elementary schools, and all employed homerooms. They switched classes for every subject, but homeroom was always fixed.

That's nice. My kids have attended five FCPS elementary schools (three base without LLIV and two centers), and none employed homerooms. They also did not necessarily team teach or switch classes for subjects. FCPS is a large system, and the schools do vary quite a bit, and also change as principals and teachers come and go. We've gone to mostly the poorer elementaries in the county, on the low side in scores, and found the people a lot more low-key and pleasant, whether they're in the AAP center or gen ed. I'd felt a bit sad that we couldn't put our kids in the best elementaries, but considering how bitter, grim, entitled, and status-hungry you lot at the highest SES schools are, I'm glad not to be part of that. We parents hang out as our kids take part in activities, and no one discusses who's in what program. That's considered gauche and divisive. Maybe the biggest problem at some of these AAP centers is you, the parents. ALL of you.

Agree completely.