Asian-American Groups Accuse Brown, Dartmouth, and Yale of Bias in Admissions

[Anonymous]

Why do some Asians in this posting think Asians are smarter/better/more deserving of all the college slots than African Americans and then have the nerve to call everyone who doesn't think the top schools should be composed of all Asian kids as racist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do some Asians in this posting think Asians are smarter/better/more deserving of all the college slots than African Americans and then have the nerve to call everyone who doesn't think the top schools should be composed of all Asian kids as racist?

if you had that basic skill often called "reading comprehension," you wouldn't be trying to summarize this whole thread with the stupid "straw man" fallacy above.

Look it up; you may learn something today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do some Asians in this posting think Asians are smarter/better/more deserving of all the college slots than African Americans and then have the nerve to call everyone who doesn't think the top schools should be composed of all Asian kids as racist?

if you had that basic skill often called "reading comprehension," you wouldn't be trying to summarize this whole thread with the stupid "straw man" fallacy above.

Look it up; you may learn something today.

+1 lol. People are advocating for admissions based on academic achievement, and maybe other achievements, but not based on race. That's all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The great irony of this Asian-American anti-affirmative action meme is that Asian immigration to the U.S. was a by product of the civil rights movement. The mere fact that Asians are here today is because of the blood, sweat, and tears of generations of African-Americans who eliminated legalized racism. It is an especially cruel irony that African-Americans insisted on using their political capital to gain immigration rights for Asians and now a small minority of those immigrants blame African-Americans because their child can't get into Stanford.

That is why all the Asian-American civil rights groups SUPPORT affirmative action. And, that is why the most outraged Asians are the ones with the least understanding of American history.

And many African Americans also seem to forget that white America had a history of discriminating against all non-white people, including Asians. Colored people = non white people. So, whatever laws and discrimination Black people suffered, Asian Americans also suffered such laws, even out West in CA. Yes, African Americans probably more so due to the legacy of slavery, but whatever laws the US had against colored people, included Asian Americans.

BTW, it wasn't all African Americans that paved the way for civil rights for all. I highly doubt every single AA protested and marched in DC. Oh, and there were Asian American civil rights campaigners, too. Their numbers were small, well, because there weren't that many Asians in the US back then because of the Chinese Exclusion Act.

Also, the Chinese Exclusion Act was overturned prior to the Civil Rights movement. Asians came here long before the Civil Rights movement.

+1. And the same with Latinos, who were in many States centuries before AAs were. If we care about diversity, let's talk about real diversity. A poor Vietnamese immigrant shouldn't be penalized because he is Asian -- but the fact is, he IS penalized.

How? They’re significantly overreresented as it is.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the crux of the problem. Stupid, dangerous, probably racist, ignorance.

Tell us, beautiful soul, how are poor Vietnamese immigrants over-represented?

Well beautiful soul, I assumed you mean Asians as a group (since that is what the thread is about).
So Now you’re expecting people to respond to the thread by looking at each Asian country individually? Like how many Lao’s go in? How many Burmese? How many Malaysians? Like that?

Well, to answer your question, how many poor Vietnamese applied? Then I could possibly tell you if this group was discriminated against.

Beautiful Soul, YOU made a specific claim. Prove it.

From the data I've seen, every single factor would work against said poor Vietnamese immigrant.

-- Poor: underrepresented
-- Vietnamese: underrepresented (this may be tough for you to understand, but Vietnamese have little in common with Chinese Americans or Japanese Americans)
-- Immigrant: underrepresented

My claim was: A poor Vietnamese immigrant shouldn't be penalized because he is Asian -- but the fact is, he IS penalized.

Want to retract your ignorant, stupid and probably racist response?

No. but I am going to bow out. I was talking about Asians being over-represented. Not poor Vietnamese. That isn’t what the thread was about.

What you still don't seem to get is that "poor Vietnamese" is certainly part of "Asian" so the typical "overrepresentation" arguments, like the one you jumped into, are profoundly stupid and unfair.

Let's start evaluating individuals, not BS "races."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am so confused as to why this is even an issue. Can't Asians or any other group just choose to not self identify on an college application thus eliminating race as a deciding factor? I am trying to think of the last time I ran into an Asian with a typically Asian name like Yoon and Jin. All of the ones I know seem to know have names like Betsy and Hunter.

Most top schools have interviews.

All of these top schools turn down thousands of kids with perfect credentials though. Everyone realizes that, right?

The biggest deciding factor had to be money. Someone had to pay for the school after all. If you have given to past scholls your kids have attended and you are willing to give to this school and you have perfect credentials your odds of admission are better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so confused as to why this is even an issue. Can't Asians or any other group just choose to not self identify on an college application thus eliminating race as a deciding factor? I am trying to think of the last time I ran into an Asian with a typically Asian name like Yoon and Jin. All of the ones I know seem to know have names like Betsy and Hunter.

Most top schools have interviews.

All of these top schools turn down thousands of kids with perfect credentials though. Everyone realizes that, right?

The biggest deciding factor had to be money. Someone had to pay for the school after all. If you have given to past scholls your kids have attended and you are willing to give to this school and you have perfect credentials your odds of admission are better.

Most top schools have interviews.

All of these top schools turn down thousands of kids with perfect credentials though. Everyone realizes that, right?

The biggest deciding factor has to be money. Someone has to pay for the school after all. If you have given to past scholls your kids have attended and you are willing to give to this school and you have perfect credentials your odds of admission are better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so confused as to why this is even an issue. Can't Asians or any other group just choose to not self identify on an college application thus eliminating race as a deciding factor? I am trying to think of the last time I ran into an Asian with a typically Asian name like Yoon and Jin. All of the ones I know seem to know have names like Betsy and Hunter.

Most top schools have interviews.

All of these top schools turn down thousands of kids with perfect credentials though. Everyone realizes that, right?

The biggest deciding factor had to be money. Someone had to pay for the school after all. If you have given to past scholls your kids have attended and you are willing to give to this school and you have perfect credentials your odds of admission are better.

So, once again, money trumps all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so confused as to why this is even an issue. Can't Asians or any other group just choose to not self identify on an college application thus eliminating race as a deciding factor? I am trying to think of the last time I ran into an Asian with a typically Asian name like Yoon and Jin. All of the ones I know seem to know have names like Betsy and Hunter.

Most top schools have interviews.

All of these top schools turn down thousands of kids with perfect credentials though. Everyone realizes that, right?

The biggest deciding factor had to be money. Someone had to pay for the school after all. If you have given to past scholls your kids have attended and you are willing to give to this school and you have perfect credentials your odds of admission are better.

So, once again, money trumps all.

Money and access.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If it is OK to limit the number of qualified Asian Americans into elite universities using holistic admissions, then why wasn't it ok years ago when Harvard went this route to limit the number of Jews? Why do we look back on that time and shake our heads, and we all agree it was terrible for Harvard to do this, but then think it's fine today to do this very same thing to a different group of people?

Jews can pass as white (Ashkenazi types). If the vast majority of Jews were Sephardic or mizrahi Jews in the us, Jews would be way more discriminated against.

Read brodkins book.

Phenotypes play a huge part in perception

[Anonymous]

These complaints are nothing more that an attack on affirmative action. Period.
Courts, including the Supreme Court, have ruled colleges and universities may use race as a factor (but not the factor) in making admissions decisions.

[Anonymous]

I'm curious what these people attacking AA think should be the criteria for admission. Diversity is more than about race. I just read the story of a three - tour combat veteran admitted to Harvard who admits his HS grades and SAT scores were nothing near what the current crop of high achieving high school graduates. Did he displace some poor valedictorian who parents think their snowflake better deserved entrance. Harvard and these other schools want real people who can add some new, different perspective to a class. Automatons of the type described in William Dereszewicz's "Excellent Sheep" are not always wanted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious what these people attacking AA think should be the criteria for admission. Diversity is more than about race. I just read the story of a three - tour combat veteran admitted to Harvard who admits his HS grades and SAT scores were nothing near what the current crop of high achieving high school graduates. Did he displace some poor valedictorian who parents think their snowflake better deserved entrance. Harvard and these other schools want real people who can add some new, different perspective to a class. Automatons of the type described in William Dereszewicz's "Excellent Sheep" are not always wanted.

And this is true of any race. The paint-by-number achiever types who have never failed, taken a detour, broken a rule or had a doubt are not the kids you want in elite universities. Unfortunately, right now too many excellent sheep are getting in and more feel entitled to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious what these people attacking AA think should be the criteria for admission. Diversity is more than about race. I just read the story of a three - tour combat veteran admitted to Harvard who admits his HS grades and SAT scores were nothing near what the current crop of high achieving high school graduates. Did he displace some poor valedictorian who parents think their snowflake better deserved entrance. Harvard and these other schools want real people who can add some new, different perspective to a class. Automatons of the type described in William Dereszewicz's "Excellent Sheep" are not always wanted.

And this is true of any race. The paint-by-number achiever types who have never failed, taken a detour, broken a rule or had a doubt are not the kids you want in elite universities. Unfortunately, right now too many excellent sheep are getting in and more feel entitled to.

+1. Previous poster seems to hold the racist opinion that only Asians are "automatons."

In any case, to make this simpler, let's contrast two extremes: the kids of a poor Vietnamese immigrant vs the kids of a wealthy black lawyer.

Right now, race-conscious affirmative action penalizes the first and favors the second.

Why? THAT's the bias we are discussing in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious what these people attacking AA think should be the criteria for admission. Diversity is more than about race. I just read the story of a three - tour combat veteran admitted to Harvard who admits his HS grades and SAT scores were nothing near what the current crop of high achieving high school graduates. Did he displace some poor valedictorian who parents think their snowflake better deserved entrance. Harvard and these other schools want real people who can add some new, different perspective to a class. Automatons of the type described in William Dereszewicz's "Excellent Sheep" are not always wanted.

And this is true of any race. The paint-by-number achiever types who have never failed, taken a detour, broken a rule or had a doubt are not the kids you want in elite universities. Unfortunately, right now too many excellent sheep are getting in and more feel entitled to.

+1. Previous poster seems to hold the racist opinion that only Asians are "automatons."

In any case, to make this simpler, let's contrast two extremes: the kids of a poor Vietnamese immigrant vs the kids of a wealthy black lawyer.

Right now, race-conscious affirmative action penalizes the first and favors the second.

Why? THAT's the bias we are discussing in this thread.

How? The Asian groups have made an allegation that does not hold water. No evidence at all that a poor Vietnamese person wth stellar credentials is at a disadvantage vis-a-vis the offspring of a wealth black lawyer. As noted above, the Ivies seek to create a well rounded class -- legally, they are allowed to do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious what these people attacking AA think should be the criteria for admission. Diversity is more than about race. I just read the story of a three - tour combat veteran admitted to Harvard who admits his HS grades and SAT scores were nothing near what the current crop of high achieving high school graduates. Did he displace some poor valedictorian who parents think their snowflake better deserved entrance. Harvard and these other schools want real people who can add some new, different perspective to a class. Automatons of the type described in William Dereszewicz's "Excellent Sheep" are not always wanted.

And this is true of any race. The paint-by-number achiever types who have never failed, taken a detour, broken a rule or had a doubt are not the kids you want in elite universities. Unfortunately, right now too many excellent sheep are getting in and more feel entitled to.

+1. Previous poster seems to hold the racist opinion that only Asians are "automatons."

In any case, to make this simpler, let's contrast two extremes: the kids of a poor Vietnamese immigrant vs the kids of a wealthy black lawyer.

Right now, race-conscious affirmative action penalizes the first and favors the second.

Why? THAT's the bias we are discussing in this thread.

How? The Asian groups have made an allegation that does not hold water. No evidence at all that a poor Vietnamese person wth stellar credentials is at a disadvantage vis-a-vis the offspring of a wealth black lawyer. As noted above, the Ivies seek to create a well rounded class -- legally, they are allowed to do this.

That's your opinion, which contradicts the facts as I understand them (I'm not Asian, btw). Everything else the same, poor Vietnamese person doesn't get in, wealthy black (or white or Latino) does.