Asian-American Groups Accuse Brown, Dartmouth, and Yale of Bias in Admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of my many problems with these posts is that they op seems to refer to African Americans as though they are the sole cause for limited number of Asian Americans not getting in. I don't care how many times you say this or how many threads you start. The legacy and international students account for 20-25 percent alone while African Americans are between 5-8 percent of elite schools.

Also, a perfect test score often means years of studying. How should that be the deciding factor? That is what you are arguing?

As an Asian American, I don't think it's the *sole* cause. There are white kids with less than stellar grades/scores getting in above Asian American kids with more impressive e.c., grades, scores. That's also the issue. And also, there are white students who have sued colleges for this same thing:

http://college.usatoday.com/2015/06/29/supreme-court-will-re-hear-university-of-texas-affirmative-action-case/

Just like when whites complain about affirmative action/AAs and "merit" this is also a slippery slope. Is it not possible that there are white students with better scores that got passed over for Asians? I work in admission consulting and had an AA client who was a student athlete with stellar grades, top 5% SAT, and extracurriculars, who got rejected by all the Ivies he applied to. I know for certain his grades were better than most who applied. Can we add him to the lawsuit?

You can find an examples of this across the board. If anything, I would think Asian American's biggest issue would be the high % of acceptances from their Asian non-american counterparts. Thats who mainly make up the top schools. Not Asian Americans.

International students. All are "full pay." I imagine they'd be highly coveted even at Ivies with big endowments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of my many problems with these posts is that they op seems to refer to African Americans as though they are the sole cause for limited number of Asian Americans not getting in. I don't care how many times you say this or how many threads you start. The legacy and international students account for 20-25 percent alone while African Americans are between 5-8 percent of elite schools.

Also, a perfect test score often means years of studying. How should that be the deciding factor? That is what you are arguing?

As an Asian American, I don't think it's the *sole* cause. There are white kids with less than stellar grades/scores getting in above Asian American kids with more impressive e.c., grades, scores. That's also the issue. And also, there are white students who have sued colleges for this same thing:

http://college.usatoday.com/2015/06/29/supreme-court-will-re-hear-university-of-texas-affirmative-action-case/

Just like when whites complain about affirmative action/AAs and "merit" this is also a slippery slope. Is it not possible that there are white students with better scores that got passed over for Asians? I work in admission consulting and had an AA client who was a student athlete with stellar grades, top 5% SAT, and extracurriculars, who got rejected by all the Ivies he applied to. I know for certain his grades were better than most who applied. Can we add him to the lawsuit?

You can find an examples of this across the board. If anything, I would think Asian American's biggest issue would be the high % of acceptances from their Asian non-american counterparts. Thats who mainly make up the top schools. Not Asian Americans.

International students. All are "full pay." I imagine they'd be highly coveted even at Ivies with big endowments.

Not true. Harvard and many other universities provide aid to international students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of my many problems with these posts is that they op seems to refer to African Americans as though they are the sole cause for limited number of Asian Americans not getting in. I don't care how many times you say this or how many threads you start. The legacy and international students account for 20-25 percent alone while African Americans are between 5-8 percent of elite schools.

Also, a perfect test score often means years of studying. How should that be the deciding factor? That is what you are arguing?

As an Asian American, I don't think it's the *sole* cause. There are white kids with less than stellar grades/scores getting in above Asian American kids with more impressive e.c., grades, scores. That's also the issue. And also, there are white students who have sued colleges for this same thing:

http://college.usatoday.com/2015/06/29/supreme-court-will-re-hear-university-of-texas-affirmative-action-case/

Just like when whites complain about affirmative action/AAs and "merit" this is also a slippery slope. Is it not possible that there are white students with better scores that got passed over for Asians? I work in admission consulting and had an AA client who was a student athlete with stellar grades, top 5% SAT, and extracurriculars, who got rejected by all the Ivies he applied to. I know for certain his grades were better than most who applied. Can we add him to the lawsuit?

You can find an examples of this across the board. If anything, I would think Asian American's biggest issue would be the high % of acceptances from their Asian non-american counterparts. Thats who mainly make up the top schools. Not Asian Americans.

International students. All are "full pay." I imagine they'd be highly coveted even at Ivies with big endowments.

Not true. Harvard and many other universities provide aid to international students.

You are correct. I just looked it up - that surprised me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of my many problems with these posts is that they op seems to refer to African Americans as though they are the sole cause for limited number of Asian Americans not getting in. I don't care how many times you say this or how many threads you start. The legacy and international students account for 20-25 percent alone while African Americans are between 5-8 percent of elite schools.

Also, a perfect test score often means years of studying. How should that be the deciding factor? That is what you are arguing?

As an Asian American, I don't think it's the *sole* cause. There are white kids with less than stellar grades/scores getting in above Asian American kids with more impressive e.c., grades, scores. That's also the issue. And also, there are white students who have sued colleges for this same thing:

http://college.usatoday.com/2015/06/29/supreme-court-will-re-hear-university-of-texas-affirmative-action-case/

Just like when whites complain about affirmative action/AAs and "merit" this is also a slippery slope. Is it not possible that there are white students with better scores that got passed over for Asians? I work in admission consulting and had an AA client who was a student athlete with stellar grades, top 5% SAT, and extracurriculars, who got rejected by all the Ivies he applied to. I know for certain his grades were better than most who applied. Can we add him to the lawsuit?

You can find an examples of this across the board. If anything, I would think Asian American's biggest issue would be the high % of acceptances from their Asian non-american counterparts. Thats who mainly make up the top schools. Not Asian Americans.

International students. All are "full pay." I imagine they'd be highly coveted even at Ivies with big endowments.

Not true. Harvard and many other universities provide aid to international students.

You are correct. I just looked it up - that surprised me.

They do provide aid to international students, but most pay in cash.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The great irony of this Asian-American anti-affirmative action meme is that Asian immigration to the U.S. was a by product of the civil rights movement. The mere fact that Asians are here today is because of the blood, sweat, and tears of generations of African-Americans who eliminated legalized racism. It is an especially cruel irony that African-Americans insisted on using their political capital to gain immigration rights for Asians and now a small minority of those immigrants blame African-Americans because their child can't get into Stanford.

That is why all the Asian-American civil rights groups SUPPORT affirmative action. And, that is why the most outraged Asians are the ones with the least understanding of American history.

And many African Americans also seem to forget that white America had a history of discriminating against all non-white people, including Asians. Colored people = non white people. So, whatever laws and discrimination Black people suffered, Asian Americans also suffered such laws, even out West in CA. Yes, African Americans probably more so due to the legacy of slavery, but whatever laws the US had against colored people, included Asian Americans.

BTW, it wasn't all African Americans that paved the way for civil rights for all. I highly doubt every single AA protested and marched in DC. Oh, and there were Asian American civil rights campaigners, too. Their numbers were small, well, because there weren't that many Asians in the US back then because of the Chinese Exclusion Act.

Also, the Chinese Exclusion Act was overturned prior to the Civil Rights movement. Asians came here long before the Civil Rights movement.

+1. And the same with Latinos, who were in many States centuries before AAs were. If we care about diversity, let's talk about real diversity. A poor Vietnamese immigrant shouldn't be penalized because he is Asian -- but the fact is, he IS penalized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The great irony of this Asian-American anti-affirmative action meme is that Asian immigration to the U.S. was a by product of the civil rights movement. The mere fact that Asians are here today is because of the blood, sweat, and tears of generations of African-Americans who eliminated legalized racism. It is an especially cruel irony that African-Americans insisted on using their political capital to gain immigration rights for Asians and now a small minority of those immigrants blame African-Americans because their child can't get into Stanford.

That is why all the Asian-American civil rights groups SUPPORT affirmative action. And, that is why the most outraged Asians are the ones with the least understanding of American history.

And many African Americans also seem to forget that white America had a history of discriminating against all non-white people, including Asians. Colored people = non white people. So, whatever laws and discrimination Black people suffered, Asian Americans also suffered such laws, even out West in CA. Yes, African Americans probably more so due to the legacy of slavery, but whatever laws the US had against colored people, included Asian Americans.

BTW, it wasn't all African Americans that paved the way for civil rights for all. I highly doubt every single AA protested and marched in DC. Oh, and there were Asian American civil rights campaigners, too. Their numbers were small, well, because there weren't that many Asians in the US back then because of the Chinese Exclusion Act.

Also, the Chinese Exclusion Act was overturned prior to the Civil Rights movement. Asians came here long before the Civil Rights movement.

+1. And the same with Latinos, who were in many States centuries before AAs were. If we care about diversity, let's talk about real diversity. A poor Vietnamese immigrant shouldn't be penalized because he is Asian -- but the fact is, he IS penalized.

How? They’re significantly overreresented as it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The great irony of this Asian-American anti-affirmative action meme is that Asian immigration to the U.S. was a by product of the civil rights movement. The mere fact that Asians are here today is because of the blood, sweat, and tears of generations of African-Americans who eliminated legalized racism. It is an especially cruel irony that African-Americans insisted on using their political capital to gain immigration rights for Asians and now a small minority of those immigrants blame African-Americans because their child can't get into Stanford.

That is why all the Asian-American civil rights groups SUPPORT affirmative action. And, that is why the most outraged Asians are the ones with the least understanding of American history.

And many African Americans also seem to forget that white America had a history of discriminating against all non-white people, including Asians. Colored people = non white people. So, whatever laws and discrimination Black people suffered, Asian Americans also suffered such laws, even out West in CA. Yes, African Americans probably more so due to the legacy of slavery, but whatever laws the US had against colored people, included Asian Americans.

BTW, it wasn't all African Americans that paved the way for civil rights for all. I highly doubt every single AA protested and marched in DC. Oh, and there were Asian American civil rights campaigners, too. Their numbers were small, well, because there weren't that many Asians in the US back then because of the Chinese Exclusion Act.

Also, the Chinese Exclusion Act was overturned prior to the Civil Rights movement. Asians came here long before the Civil Rights movement.

+1. And the same with Latinos, who were in many States centuries before AAs were. If we care about diversity, let's talk about real diversity. A poor Vietnamese immigrant shouldn't be penalized because he is Asian -- but the fact is, he IS penalized.

How? They’re significantly overreresented as it is.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the crux of the problem. Stupid, dangerous, probably racist, ignorance.

Tell us, beautiful soul, how are poor Vietnamese immigrants over-represented?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The great irony of this Asian-American anti-affirmative action meme is that Asian immigration to the U.S. was a by product of the civil rights movement. The mere fact that Asians are here today is because of the blood, sweat, and tears of generations of African-Americans who eliminated legalized racism. It is an especially cruel irony that African-Americans insisted on using their political capital to gain immigration rights for Asians and now a small minority of those immigrants blame African-Americans because their child can't get into Stanford.

That is why all the Asian-American civil rights groups SUPPORT affirmative action. And, that is why the most outraged Asians are the ones with the least understanding of American history.

And many African Americans also seem to forget that white America had a history of discriminating against all non-white people, including Asians. Colored people = non white people. So, whatever laws and discrimination Black people suffered, Asian Americans also suffered such laws, even out West in CA. Yes, African Americans probably more so due to the legacy of slavery, but whatever laws the US had against colored people, included Asian Americans.

BTW, it wasn't all African Americans that paved the way for civil rights for all. I highly doubt every single AA protested and marched in DC. Oh, and there were Asian American civil rights campaigners, too. Their numbers were small, well, because there weren't that many Asians in the US back then because of the Chinese Exclusion Act.

Also, the Chinese Exclusion Act was overturned prior to the Civil Rights movement. Asians came here long before the Civil Rights movement.

+1. And the same with Latinos, who were in many States centuries before AAs were. If we care about diversity, let's talk about real diversity. A poor Vietnamese immigrant shouldn't be penalized because he is Asian -- but the fact is, he IS penalized.

How? They’re significantly overreresented as it is.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the crux of the problem. Stupid, dangerous, probably racist, ignorance.

Tell us, beautiful soul, how are poor Vietnamese immigrants over-represented?

Well beautiful soul, I assumed you mean Asians as a group (since that is what the thread is about).
So Now you’re expecting people to respond to the thread by looking at each Asian country individually? Like how many Lao’s go in? How many Burmese? How many Malaysians? Like that?

Well, to answer your question, how many poor Vietnamese applied? Then I could possibly tell you if this group was discriminated against.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The great irony of this Asian-American anti-affirmative action meme is that Asian immigration to the U.S. was a by product of the civil rights movement. The mere fact that Asians are here today is because of the blood, sweat, and tears of generations of African-Americans who eliminated legalized racism. It is an especially cruel irony that African-Americans insisted on using their political capital to gain immigration rights for Asians and now a small minority of those immigrants blame African-Americans because their child can't get into Stanford.

That is why all the Asian-American civil rights groups SUPPORT affirmative action. And, that is why the most outraged Asians are the ones with the least understanding of American history.

And many African Americans also seem to forget that white America had a history of discriminating against all non-white people, including Asians. Colored people = non white people. So, whatever laws and discrimination Black people suffered, Asian Americans also suffered such laws, even out West in CA. Yes, African Americans probably more so due to the legacy of slavery, but whatever laws the US had against colored people, included Asian Americans.

BTW, it wasn't all African Americans that paved the way for civil rights for all. I highly doubt every single AA protested and marched in DC. Oh, and there were Asian American civil rights campaigners, too. Their numbers were small, well, because there weren't that many Asians in the US back then because of the Chinese Exclusion Act.

Also, the Chinese Exclusion Act was overturned prior to the Civil Rights movement. Asians came here long before the Civil Rights movement.

+1. And the same with Latinos, who were in many States centuries before AAs were. If we care about diversity, let's talk about real diversity. A poor Vietnamese immigrant shouldn't be penalized because he is Asian -- but the fact is, he IS penalized.

How? They’re significantly overreresented as it is.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the crux of the problem. Stupid, dangerous, probably racist, ignorance.

Tell us, beautiful soul, how are poor Vietnamese immigrants over-represented?

Well beautiful soul, I assumed you mean Asians as a group (since that is what the thread is about).
So Now you’re expecting people to respond to the thread by looking at each Asian country individually? Like how many Lao’s go in? How many Burmese? How many Malaysians? Like that?

Well, to answer your question, how many poor Vietnamese applied? Then I could possibly tell you if this group was discriminated against.

Beautiful Soul, YOU made a specific claim. Prove it.

From the data I've seen, every single factor would work against said poor Vietnamese immigrant.

-- Poor: underrepresented
-- Vietnamese: underrepresented (this may be tough for you to understand, but Vietnamese have little in common with Chinese Americans or Japanese Americans)
-- Immigrant: underrepresented

My claim was: A poor Vietnamese immigrant shouldn't be penalized because he is Asian -- but the fact is, he IS penalized.

Want to retract your ignorant, stupid and probably racist response?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The great irony of this Asian-American anti-affirmative action meme is that Asian immigration to the U.S. was a by product of the civil rights movement. The mere fact that Asians are here today is because of the blood, sweat, and tears of generations of African-Americans who eliminated legalized racism. It is an especially cruel irony that African-Americans insisted on using their political capital to gain immigration rights for Asians and now a small minority of those immigrants blame African-Americans because their child can't get into Stanford.

That is why all the Asian-American civil rights groups SUPPORT affirmative action. And, that is why the most outraged Asians are the ones with the least understanding of American history.

And many African Americans also seem to forget that white America had a history of discriminating against all non-white people, including Asians. Colored people = non white people. So, whatever laws and discrimination Black people suffered, Asian Americans also suffered such laws, even out West in CA. Yes, African Americans probably more so due to the legacy of slavery, but whatever laws the US had against colored people, included Asian Americans.

BTW, it wasn't all African Americans that paved the way for civil rights for all. I highly doubt every single AA protested and marched in DC. Oh, and there were Asian American civil rights campaigners, too. Their numbers were small, well, because there weren't that many Asians in the US back then because of the Chinese Exclusion Act.

Also, the Chinese Exclusion Act was overturned prior to the Civil Rights movement. Asians came here long before the Civil Rights movement.

+1. And the same with Latinos, who were in many States centuries before AAs were. If we care about diversity, let's talk about real diversity. A poor Vietnamese immigrant shouldn't be penalized because he is Asian -- but the fact is, he IS penalized.

How? They’re significantly overreresented as it is.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the crux of the problem. Stupid, dangerous, probably racist, ignorance.

Tell us, beautiful soul, how are poor Vietnamese immigrants over-represented?

Well beautiful soul, I assumed you mean Asians as a group (since that is what the thread is about).
So Now you’re expecting people to respond to the thread by looking at each Asian country individually? Like how many Lao’s go in? How many Burmese? How many Malaysians? Like that?

Well, to answer your question, how many poor Vietnamese applied? Then I could possibly tell you if this group was discriminated against.

Oh, and you’d need to consider their grades, SAT scores, extra-curriculars. Regardless of race/ethnicity, that kind of stuff matters a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The great irony of this Asian-American anti-affirmative action meme is that Asian immigration to the U.S. was a by product of the civil rights movement. The mere fact that Asians are here today is because of the blood, sweat, and tears of generations of African-Americans who eliminated legalized racism. It is an especially cruel irony that African-Americans insisted on using their political capital to gain immigration rights for Asians and now a small minority of those immigrants blame African-Americans because their child can't get into Stanford.

That is why all the Asian-American civil rights groups SUPPORT affirmative action. And, that is why the most outraged Asians are the ones with the least understanding of American history.

And many African Americans also seem to forget that white America had a history of discriminating against all non-white people, including Asians. Colored people = non white people. So, whatever laws and discrimination Black people suffered, Asian Americans also suffered such laws, even out West in CA. Yes, African Americans probably more so due to the legacy of slavery, but whatever laws the US had against colored people, included Asian Americans.

BTW, it wasn't all African Americans that paved the way for civil rights for all. I highly doubt every single AA protested and marched in DC. Oh, and there were Asian American civil rights campaigners, too. Their numbers were small, well, because there weren't that many Asians in the US back then because of the Chinese Exclusion Act.

Also, the Chinese Exclusion Act was overturned prior to the Civil Rights movement. Asians came here long before the Civil Rights movement.

+1. And the same with Latinos, who were in many States centuries before AAs were. If we care about diversity, let's talk about real diversity. A poor Vietnamese immigrant shouldn't be penalized because he is Asian -- but the fact is, he IS penalized.

How? They’re significantly overreresented as it is.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the crux of the problem. Stupid, dangerous, probably racist, ignorance.

Tell us, beautiful soul, how are poor Vietnamese immigrants over-represented?

Well beautiful soul, I assumed you mean Asians as a group (since that is what the thread is about).
So Now you’re expecting people to respond to the thread by looking at each Asian country individually? Like how many Lao’s go in? How many Burmese? How many Malaysians? Like that?

Well, to answer your question, how many poor Vietnamese applied? Then I could possibly tell you if this group was discriminated against.

Beautiful Soul, YOU made a specific claim. Prove it.

From the data I've seen, every single factor would work against said poor Vietnamese immigrant.

-- Poor: underrepresented
-- Vietnamese: underrepresented (this may be tough for you to understand, but Vietnamese have little in common with Chinese Americans or Japanese Americans)
-- Immigrant: underrepresented

My claim was: A poor Vietnamese immigrant shouldn't be penalized because he is Asian -- but the fact is, he IS penalized.

Want to retract your ignorant, stupid and probably racist response?

No. but I am going to bow out. I was talking about Asians being over-represented. Not poor Vietnamese. That isn’t what the thread was about.

[Anonymous]

I am so confused as to why this is even an issue. Can't Asians or any other group just choose to not self identify on an college application thus eliminating race as a deciding factor? I am trying to think of the last time I ran into an Asian with a typically Asian name like Yoon and Jin. All of the ones I know seem to know have names like Betsy and Hunter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
That is one of the reasons why all the Asian-American civil rights organization support affirmative action. That's why the entire Congressional Asian Pacific Islander caucus supports affirmative action.

CA tried to repeal prop 209 (banning affirmative action) in UC and CalState univ. Asian American parents balked and made a huge stink.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am so confused as to why this is even an issue. Can't Asians or any other group just choose to not self identify on an college application thus eliminating race as a deciding factor? I am trying to think of the last time I ran into an Asian with a typically Asian name like Yoon and Jin. All of the ones I know seem to know have names like Betsy and Hunter.

? Their last names are a dead give away. Like I said, they should all just be given numbers.

[Anonymous]

So legally change your last name. If the right school is that important to you and you really think the only reason you aren't getting in is that you are of a not so favored race then do it. It really isn't that hard. If your last name is important to you then petition the court's to change it back once you derive what ever benefit you believe is being denied you.