Hush on skin tone. Got it. Red Line attack-take 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a military family, the idea that the military itself--funding cut, fighting with one hand behind its back--should now babysit petty criminals is laughable to me. On the other hand, I do think our inner cities resemble war zones and we could absolutely have a military/civilian solution in a place like Chicago or Baltimore: send in a "surge" of National Guard (we can't send in the military due to posse comitatus unless we change our laws) to deal with the Isis like thugs who shoot children in alleys, and then a 50 year Marshall plan. Top-down. Tell people who choose to live there exactly what to do. I think the law abiding and productive would be grateful.

Who said anything about enlisting murderers?

Well, this started as a response to "What should be done about violent youths like the ones that attacked this poor man on the Red Line?"

That was pretty much attempted murder, and those are not the kinds of individuals you want to hand a gun and turn loose on civilian populations in troubled parts of the world.

Yes but the conversation has evolved.Rather than jump to the extreme end of things, let's try to be rational here. Anyone who participates in a brutal beating such as this deserves jail, not military enlistment.

Underage children punishment is a revolving door in DC. There needs to be reform and much more serious rehab. the problem is, they don't even know if they caught the kids? How can you punish them? These mobs are learning they can operate with impunity. Metro policing and coordination is chaos. You are taking your life in your hands if you choose to ride it or the buses. The people who suffer most are the hardworking folks who are forced to use it to get to work.

I am for CCTVs everywhere, checkpoints, and roving youth police (like the truancy van I saw in Tenleytown), and reform/transparency to youth punishment.

I agree, which is why military is the answer. Too young for enlistment? Military boarding school until 18 with a heavy influence on education and community service. At graduation, automatic military enrollment. These kids should NOT be allowed to reenter society without at least 4-5 years of behavior correction. Right now, this "correction" is happening in our jail system and it is NOT effective.

The ONLY thing that will get through to these kids is swift and permanent consequences. They don't care about getting arrested or sent to juvenile detention (it's bragging rights for many). They don't care about school or education. They don't care if their actions will have consequences for their parents. Mainly, because the punishments are abstract and easily bendable. We need to rectify this and show them we mean business.

I just think this is a disservice and misunderstanding of the military. I have no problem with a military like reform program (you mention military school) and once the kids have rehabbed the military could be a wonderful option, but though it has changed many lives it is not a reform program in and of itself. It's also unfair to the parents who send their trusting, do good 18 and 19 years olds off for voluntary service to be bunking and serving in this scenario.

While it does not have the title, the military IS a reform sort of program for many. There are MANY who enlist because they don't have a clear future, they don't want to go to college and don't have a good job, etc. The idea that the military is a great draw for fresh-faced high school graduates is a myth. Many enlist because they don't have any other path to making something of their lives.

What would bunking with one of these delinquents harm? You seem to suggest that they're going to enter the military and, with no support system, friends, etc, decide to continue their criminal ways. I disagree. Removal from a bad scenario is 99% of the battle to behavior reform.

Oh but you are very, very naive, if you think that. (in your bolded sentence)
They do find others up to no good and they do continue their ways. They (only - in the best scenario) intimidate, threaten, and harass "the good kids" that enter the military, but now they have guns and are trained to kill. Great! My DH entered the military very young, and was later part of JAG; murder was not uncommon, and a lot of "accidents" happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Back to the topic, Red Line attack-take 3.

Given all the threats our city is under, why is there no coordinated way to lock down metro and conduct a search? I find reports that the kids may have escaped on a train going in the opposite direction (despite being pointed our by witnesses) very disturbing. Why can't we put checkpoints at entrances/exits and stop trains????

In the smoke train disaster, we found out metro radios don't work--despite all the lessons of 9/11 and orders to fix those systems going back to 9/11. Similar with cellphone coverage. And they can't even hold a train?

Why is there no inter metro communication system between customers- WMATA workers - WMATA police that works, as well as coordination below ground from WMATA police and above ground with regular DC police response?

It is unacceptable that we are unable to muster a response to a mob attack in a contained space, that should have both communication AND surveillance systems, as well as controlled entrances and egresses.

I agree with you! Metro needs to respond much better and faster and more consistent, and in faster coordination with other services (EMS, police).
It is unacceptable for the capital of the U.S.
If we can't even respond swiftly and appropriately to mobs of teenagers, or some smoke in a tunnel, heaven help us, if we do ever get attacked by terrorists on the metro.

.....and my cell phone does not work on the metro - though I suppose that is my carrier's fault.

[Anonymous]

Why are we talking about this? Metro sucks. I refuse to ride. Even for free.
I'm 41 fit AA woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are we talking about this? Metro sucks. I refuse to ride. Even for free.
I'm 41 fit AA woman.

+1 What subway system in America is less secure then DC? I appreciate how NYC has armed guards at many subway stations.

How is security at other major subway systems?

[Anonymous]

Metro rank and file employees have a job for life and are grossly overpaid for their skillsets. The system is run for the benefit of the employees only. The fact that you can usually get where you're going and in one piece is amazing. It can never get better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are we talking about this? Metro sucks. I refuse to ride. Even for free.
I'm 41 fit AA woman.

+1 What subway system in America is less secure then DC? I appreciate how NYC has armed guards at many subway stations.

How is security at other major subway systems?

Most at least have police presence, or "Metro guards" (with authority) at their stations. Translation: Shit like this does *not* go down everywhere, even thought the natives will try to say otherwise. People like to turn a blind eye here. Including witnesses, unfortunately. Bunch of wusses - and the criminals *depend* on that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are we talking about this? Metro sucks. I refuse to ride. Even for free.
I'm 41 fit AA woman.

+1 What subway system in America is less secure then DC? I appreciate how NYC has armed guards at many subway stations.

How is security at other major subway systems?

Most at least have police presence, or "Metro guards" (with authority) at their stations. Translation: Shit like this does *not* go down everywhere, even thought the natives will try to say otherwise. People like to turn a blind eye here. Including witnesses, unfortunately. Bunch of wusses - and the criminals *depend* on that.

That's what I thought. Our nation's capital is becoming more and more of a shameful hell hole. I don't suppose our limousine democrats will ever know just how bad it's getting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to the topic, Red Line attack-take 3.

Given all the threats our city is under, why is there no coordinated way to lock down metro and conduct a search? I find reports that the kids may have escaped on a train going in the opposite direction (despite being pointed our by witnesses) very disturbing. Why can't we put checkpoints at entrances/exits and stop trains????

In the smoke train disaster, we found out metro radios don't work--despite all the lessons of 9/11 and orders to fix those systems going back to 9/11. Similar with cellphone coverage. And they can't even hold a train?

Why is there no inter metro communication system between customers- WMATA workers - WMATA police that works, as well as coordination below ground from WMATA police and above ground with regular DC police response?

It is unacceptable that we are unable to muster a response to a mob attack in a contained space, that should have both communication AND surveillance systems, as well as controlled entrances and egresses.

I agree with you! Metro needs to respond much better and faster and more consistent, and in faster coordination with other services (EMS, police).
It is unacceptable for the capital of the U.S.
If we can't even respond swiftly and appropriately to mobs of teenagers, or some smoke in a tunnel, heaven help us, if we do ever get attacked by terrorists on the metro.

.....and my cell phone does not work on the metro - though I suppose that is my carrier's fault.

It's not your carriers fault. Improvement of coverage is part of the orders Metro has been given, in response to all their communication shortfallings sometimes passengers phones ARE the only help. They are working on this, but in an unenthusiastic and unmotivated way.
DC has national guard. Why not put them in stations and riding buses. Guard, Guardian Angels. Would work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a military family, the idea that the military itself--funding cut, fighting with one hand behind its back--should now babysit petty criminals is laughable to me. On the other hand, I do think our inner cities resemble war zones and we could absolutely have a military/civilian solution in a place like Chicago or Baltimore: send in a "surge" of National Guard (we can't send in the military due to posse comitatus unless we change our laws) to deal with the Isis like thugs who shoot children in alleys, and then a 50 year Marshall plan. Top-down. Tell people who choose to live there exactly what to do. I think the law abiding and productive would be grateful.

Who said anything about enlisting murderers?

Well, this started as a response to "What should be done about violent youths like the ones that attacked this poor man on the Red Line?"

That was pretty much attempted murder, and those are not the kinds of individuals you want to hand a gun and turn loose on civilian populations in troubled parts of the world.

Yes but the conversation has evolved.Rather than jump to the extreme end of things, let's try to be rational here. Anyone who participates in a brutal beating such as this deserves jail, not military enlistment.

Underage children punishment is a revolving door in DC. There needs to be reform and much more serious rehab. the problem is, they don't even know if they caught the kids? How can you punish them? These mobs are learning they can operate with impunity. Metro policing and coordination is chaos. You are taking your life in your hands if you choose to ride it or the buses. The people who suffer most are the hardworking folks who are forced to use it to get to work.

I am for CCTVs everywhere, checkpoints, and roving youth police (like the truancy van I saw in Tenleytown), and reform/transparency to youth punishment.

I agree, which is why military is the answer. Too young for enlistment? Military boarding school until 18 with a heavy influence on education and community service. At graduation, automatic military enrollment. These kids should NOT be allowed to reenter society without at least 4-5 years of behavior correction. Right now, this "correction" is happening in our jail system and it is NOT effective.

The ONLY thing that will get through to these kids is swift and permanent consequences. They don't care about getting arrested or sent to juvenile detention (it's bragging rights for many). They don't care about school or education. They don't care if their actions will have consequences for their parents. Mainly, because the punishments are abstract and easily bendable. We need to rectify this and show them we mean business.

I just think this is a disservice and misunderstanding of the military. I have no problem with a military like reform program (you mention military school) and once the kids have rehabbed the military could be a wonderful option, but though it has changed many lives it is not a reform program in and of itself. It's also unfair to the parents who send their trusting, do good 18 and 19 years olds off for voluntary service to be bunking and serving in this scenario.

While it does not have the title, the military IS a reform sort of program for many. There are MANY who enlist because they don't have a clear future, they don't want to go to college and don't have a good job, etc. The idea that the military is a great draw for fresh-faced high school graduates is a myth. Many enlist because they don't have any other path to making something of their lives.

What would bunking with one of these delinquents harm? You seem to suggest that they're going to enter the military and, with no support system, friends, etc, decide to continue their criminal ways. I disagree. Removal from a bad scenario is 99% of the battle to behavior reform.

You people are no fucking clue.

These kids would never join for one, but if they were FORCED into joining, they'd be kicked out in a hot second. They have no respect for anyone - parents, teachers, police. Do you think they'd take orders? lol!

I love how you're all such experts when you've never even spent a day with these kids. I have - in an alternative setting. not a pretty place to be

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:4) it was rush hour. ... Could nobody help the man/call for help sooner?

I dunno, but if I were there I sure as f*** wouldn't get near a group of 10 teens in this city.

l

Funny how Americans won't intervene when a fellow citizen is being beaten on a crowded train during rush hour yet some Americans foiled terrorist attack in a midair flight. What happened to American courage?

I'm the PP you're responding to. FWIW, I'm a 40 year old mother of 2 young kids and I'm pretty sure I'd get my ass beaten. I also am pretty much always iwth my kids so can't imagine intervening then. Maybe if they were teen girls (vicious as they can be), I was sure they were unarmed, I'd come to the defense of someone. But sorry, I'm too valuable right now and nobody ever taught me how to fight.

So if it's terrorists, we can count on you to cower in place.

Let's roll, indeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a military family, the idea that the military itself--funding cut, fighting with one hand behind its back--should now babysit petty criminals is laughable to me. On the other hand, I do think our inner cities resemble war zones and we could absolutely have a military/civilian solution in a place like Chicago or Baltimore: send in a "surge" of National Guard (we can't send in the military due to posse comitatus unless we change our laws) to deal with the Isis like thugs who shoot children in alleys, and then a 50 year Marshall plan. Top-down. Tell people who choose to live there exactly what to do. I think the law abiding and productive would be grateful.

Who said anything about enlisting murderers?

Well, this started as a response to "What should be done about violent youths like the ones that attacked this poor man on the Red Line?"

That was pretty much attempted murder, and those are not the kinds of individuals you want to hand a gun and turn loose on civilian populations in troubled parts of the world.

Yes but the conversation has evolved.Rather than jump to the extreme end of things, let's try to be rational here. Anyone who participates in a brutal beating such as this deserves jail, not military enlistment.

Underage children punishment is a revolving door in DC. There needs to be reform and much more serious rehab. the problem is, they don't even know if they caught the kids? How can you punish them? These mobs are learning they can operate with impunity. Metro policing and coordination is chaos. You are taking your life in your hands if you choose to ride it or the buses. The people who suffer most are the hardworking folks who are forced to use it to get to work.

I am for CCTVs everywhere, checkpoints, and roving youth police (like the truancy van I saw in Tenleytown), and reform/transparency to youth punishment.

I agree, which is why military is the answer. Too young for enlistment? Military boarding school until 18 with a heavy influence on education and community service. At graduation, automatic military enrollment. These kids should NOT be allowed to reenter society without at least 4-5 years of behavior correction. Right now, this "correction" is happening in our jail system and it is NOT effective.

The ONLY thing that will get through to these kids is swift and permanent consequences. They don't care about getting arrested or sent to juvenile detention (it's bragging rights for many). They don't care about school or education. They don't care if their actions will have consequences for their parents. Mainly, because the punishments are abstract and easily bendable. We need to rectify this and show them we mean business.

I just think this is a disservice and misunderstanding of the military. I have no problem with a military like reform program (you mention military school) and once the kids have rehabbed the military could be a wonderful option, but though it has changed many lives it is not a reform program in and of itself. It's also unfair to the parents who send their trusting, do good 18 and 19 years olds off for voluntary service to be bunking and serving in this scenario.

While it does not have the title, the military IS a reform sort of program for many. There are MANY who enlist because they don't have a clear future, they don't want to go to college and don't have a good job, etc. The idea that the military is a great draw for fresh-faced high school graduates is a myth. Many enlist because they don't have any other path to making something of their lives.

What would bunking with one of these delinquents harm? You seem to suggest that they're going to enter the military and, with no support system, friends, etc, decide to continue their criminal ways. I disagree. Removal from a bad scenario is 99% of the battle to behavior reform.

You people are no fucking clue.

These kids would never join for one, but if they were FORCED into joining, they'd be kicked out in a hot second. They have no respect for anyone - parents, teachers, police. Do you think they'd take orders? lol!

I love how you're all such experts when you've never even spent a day with these kids. I have - in an alternative setting. not a pretty place to be

WRONG. I'm the one who suggested the military. I'm black, grew up in SE DC in the projects. My Mom still lives in one of the roughest areas of SE. I know these kids. You, obviously, do not. You seem to think that they remain tough when alone, thousands of miles from home, away from the influence of peer pressure and daily exposure to crime and poverty. You would be wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a military family, the idea that the military itself--funding cut, fighting with one hand behind its back--should now babysit petty criminals is laughable to me. On the other hand, I do think our inner cities resemble war zones and we could absolutely have a military/civilian solution in a place like Chicago or Baltimore: send in a "surge" of National Guard (we can't send in the military due to posse comitatus unless we change our laws) to deal with the Isis like thugs who shoot children in alleys, and then a 50 year Marshall plan. Top-down. Tell people who choose to live there exactly what to do. I think the law abiding and productive would be grateful.

Who said anything about enlisting murderers?

Well, this started as a response to "What should be done about violent youths like the ones that attacked this poor man on the Red Line?"

That was pretty much attempted murder, and those are not the kinds of individuals you want to hand a gun and turn loose on civilian populations in troubled parts of the world.

Yes but the conversation has evolved.Rather than jump to the extreme end of things, let's try to be rational here. Anyone who participates in a brutal beating such as this deserves jail, not military enlistment.

Underage children punishment is a revolving door in DC. There needs to be reform and much more serious rehab. the problem is, they don't even know if they caught the kids? How can you punish them? These mobs are learning they can operate with impunity. Metro policing and coordination is chaos. You are taking your life in your hands if you choose to ride it or the buses. The people who suffer most are the hardworking folks who are forced to use it to get to work.

I am for CCTVs everywhere, checkpoints, and roving youth police (like the truancy van I saw in Tenleytown), and reform/transparency to youth punishment.

I agree, which is why military is the answer. Too young for enlistment? Military boarding school until 18 with a heavy influence on education and community service. At graduation, automatic military enrollment. These kids should NOT be allowed to reenter society without at least 4-5 years of behavior correction. Right now, this "correction" is happening in our jail system and it is NOT effective.

The ONLY thing that will get through to these kids is swift and permanent consequences. They don't care about getting arrested or sent to juvenile detention (it's bragging rights for many). They don't care about school or education. They don't care if their actions will have consequences for their parents. Mainly, because the punishments are abstract and easily bendable. We need to rectify this and show them we mean business.

I just think this is a disservice and misunderstanding of the military. I have no problem with a military like reform program (you mention military school) and once the kids have rehabbed the military could be a wonderful option, but though it has changed many lives it is not a reform program in and of itself. It's also unfair to the parents who send their trusting, do good 18 and 19 years olds off for voluntary service to be bunking and serving in this scenario.

While it does not have the title, the military IS a reform sort of program for many. There are MANY who enlist because they don't have a clear future, they don't want to go to college and don't have a good job, etc. The idea that the military is a great draw for fresh-faced high school graduates is a myth. Many enlist because they don't have any other path to making something of their lives.

What would bunking with one of these delinquents harm? You seem to suggest that they're going to enter the military and, with no support system, friends, etc, decide to continue their criminal ways. I disagree. Removal from a bad scenario is 99% of the battle to behavior reform.

You people are no fucking clue.

These kids would never join for one, but if they were FORCED into joining, they'd be kicked out in a hot second. They have no respect for anyone - parents, teachers, police. Do you think they'd take orders? lol!

I love how you're all such experts when you've never even spent a day with these kids. I have - in an alternative setting. not a pretty place to be

WRONG. I'm the one who suggested the military. I'm black, grew up in SE DC in the projects. My Mom still lives in one of the roughest areas of SE. I know these kids. You, obviously, do not. You seem to think that they remain tough when alone, thousands of miles from home, away from the influence of peer pressure and daily exposure to crime and poverty. You would be wrong.

You are exactly right. -OP

[Anonymous]

People of DCUM, can we keep a few things in mind?

1. This is a terrible crime. It's scary, and it's a tragedy for the victim and his family.
2. It stinks that we haven't caught the perpetrators. Let's hope they are caught soon.
3. Because they haven't been caught, we don't know anything about them - where they live, what their home situation is, why the attack occurred...we know nothing. So let's try not to ascribe a whole bunch of things to people or groups that may end up not being true.
4. This is an isolated instance. It's newsworthy because it is extremely rare that people are attacked on the metro.
5. It is not an indication of DC being a "hellhole." It's not a reason for you to stop riding metro for safety - you are much more at risk from a drunk driver or from your own driving mistakes than from something happening on the metro.
6. Try not to live your live in fear.
7. The notion of collective punishment - that as a requirement for receiving government benefits we force recipients to take birth control, or that if a child commits a crime we punish his or her parents and extended family - is abhorrent and rascist and un-American.

Let's keep these thoughts in mind as we ponder these problems.

[Anonymous]

Agree with many of your points but do nothing will get nothing. It stinks that they have not been caught is not an appropriate law enforcement response. We don't need to collectively sacrifice a few people to metro every year. Dc is VERY proud of our national guard. Its time they are called in to patrol, while wmata and lanier come up with better crime coverage plan. merry Xmas!

[Anonymous]

If they wanted the perps punished, they'd release some video of them.

Why did they release the ones they caught?