Achievement gap continues to grow between high- and low-income schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with focusing on the achievement gap is that it paradoxically increases it. I went to a low performing MCPS school in the late 1980's when there was real tracking and I was in accelerated classes with other like minded/ motivated students. If tracking existed like it did when I was in high school, I wouldn't be as concerned about my children attending the "best" school because I would know my children's needs could be met at most if not all MCPS schools. Today however, I know that I need my kids to be in the most affluent school possible so that there are resources to deal with acceleration. Since there are few bottom kids at my kids' school, I know my kids' teachers can focus on teaching my kids rather than giving them worksheets

I graduated Wheaton High School in the late 1980's. Like the PP above, I was tracked since middle school with the same grouping of about 30 kids. We were given free services such as SAT prep as well as college and career mentoring programs. I graduated with 15 AP credits and was the first in my family to graduate college. I have done well in my career and my children now attend schools in the Winston Churchill cluster.

Would I say my children's education is as good as I received in MCPS in the 1980's just because they attend schools in a W Cluster? Not even close. We supplement with educational programs outside of school to combat areas of the curriculum that are falling short in teaching basic math, reading, and writing skills. I also do not assume that the report card is an accurate reflection of my children's skills.

This is sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the biggest issues my child is experiencing is the constant class disruptions when ESOL teacher somes in and out of the classroom to pull the kids.


What do you mean by this? I am an ESOL teacher and it might take 30 seconds to one minute to get the attention of my ESOL students and for them to leave the classroom. They know when they see me appear at their door, they are to quietly stand up and leave the room. When I drop them off, they enter the classroom in silence. They sit next to a buddy who is directed by the teacher to tell them what is happening when they return (if the teacher asks them to do this). We pull all of each grade's ESOL students at the same time every day. For example, my colleague and I pull first grade at 9:15 every morning as morning announcements begin. We pull second grade as they return from their resource class every day.

Some kids - like the many with ADHD or sensory issues - find it hard to refocus after a disruption to class flow.

To be honest, these same students find it hard to refocus when a class walks by their open door on their way to the media center. Should no classes be allowed to walk in the halls?

right, and what about when kids get pulled out for speech therapy or OT? Or for reading help because of dyslexia? Isn't that distracting? Should kids with IEPs have to be in separate classes too? Or is it just ESOL kids?

Exactly. I'm the ESOL teacher who posted. We are way more distracted by the near constant announcements than anything else. Our secretary can't call into individual rooms to ask for students for early dismissal, etc so she does an all call for them ALL DAY LONG. There is an announcement every 10-15 mins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The same is true for northwood. Although it isn't that coveted now. The feeder schools have all improved drastically and have engaged families. TPES TPMS and BLAIR will always attract bright kids to the magnet and their higher farms neighborhoods will balance that.

There are 2790 kids at Blair. Of those, 400 are in the magnet. Xxx more in CAP. You're giving them a lot of credit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"They should cluster schools longitudinally. Would Potomac be inline with Wheaton or Glenmont "

ha! that'll be the day! Pigs would fly sooner than Potomac would permit that.

Agree with an earlier PP that the way to "save" the schools in the DCCC is to focus on reattracting and reassuring the middle class parents - of whatever race of course - about how their kids will do. The Blair magnet is so successful because it does just that - creates an environment where they can thrive and in turn captures those kids into the student body where they must interact with others in extracurriculars or specials classes presumably and their parents become part of the PTA. I live in a part of SS with a school that's roughly 2/3 FARM but there are MANY middle class homes around - they must either be sprinkled into other school clusters or else mostly using private or getting county waivers (a few of those in my neighborhood alone) though. If they were at our school instead it would help all the kids there. I say that as someone happy with the school so far but that realizes that more kids from middle class homes would be helpful too.

I think if you dig a little deeper, you'll see that MCPS has abandoned any effort to re-attract and reassure middle class parents in the red zone. They see the red zone as a lost cause when it comes to making the schools more attractive for middle class families. From what I've been told, there's a "you knew this about your area when you moved here" attitude in response to red zone parents who think MCPS ought to at least pretend to give a crap about whether any of the middle class families will take a chance on their local schools. It's really too bad. I think they feel overwhelmed by the budget and overcrowding and really just pray to scrape by at this point. Caring what parents think about their assigned schools in the red zone has been bumped to the bottom of the list at this point. Those parents just get into specialty programs elsewhere in the county or go private. The problem solves itself, right?

I agree, and it's not just in the red zone. In fact, read the County report - it is challenging the schools to make things less segregated, better for the disadvantaged, not better for the middle class. Call your council member.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think our desire to desegregate has bit us in the ass. We shouldn't look at segregation from an educational standpoint as a bad thing, esp. when students have different needs. We need to segregate at the early elementary school level. ESOL students together learning basic English and then must pass an entrance exam to get into regular schools. The regular school must be about teaching various subjects, not basic English, and needs to meet the needs of the top 1/2 performers. What is taught in Potomac must be taught in Wheaton and I assure you, that isn't the case and that is what is causing a lot of the issues. Students can't move into the next grade until they are ready. I don't understand why we have kids in a regular school setting that don't speak English - that is a proven recipe for disaster as classes become more and more fragmented. Keep ESOL separate until they learn the language. SES is a separate issue and schools should not be responsible for feeding or clothing disadvantaged students. That is the role of welfare.

At some point, ESOL students will have a good command of English and will assimilate into regular school, leveling the playing field a bit. The next issue to tackle is to stop promoting poor students to the next grade. Whether it be via testing or other methods, if a teacher does not feel that a child is ready to move on, tehn they shouldn't. I know too many high school graduates that can barely write.

The ESOL students will be in their own classes, where they learn nothing but basic English, and then at some point, they will have a good command of English and will assimilate into regular school, despite not having been taught any of the stuff the kids learn in the regular school?

If you're wondering why the ESOL students are in the regular school setting -- well, that's one reason.

"We conclude that in the field of public education the doctrine of ‘separate but equal’ has no place. Separate educational facilities are inherently unequal. . ."

They are unequal because they are illegal. They broke the law and feed off of our taxes to survive in this country. Oh and hold all our kids back in their education. Sorry, you don't speak English, you are not equal in an English speaking American schools. I can not walk into a school in Spain and receive free Spanish classes so I can eventually learn the language and move forward. I have to learn Spanish before going to school. But then again, Spain doesn't let illegals run across their borders and enter school for free either.

[Anonymous]

PP- Do you understand that there are plenty of legal citizens who start school not speaking English? Plenty of them. Just because a child doesn't speak English does not mean they are illegal. I know it is simpler to think that all ESOL students are illegal and should be deported but it just isn't the case.

[Anonymous]

Anyone read the article in the WaPo Sunday magazine about Fairfax's program to support bright children whose abilities are masked by language or other social struggles. Shows the promise of kids that this thread seems not to recognize.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:18:11- Stop making sense. You are ruining the PPs desire to deport the "illegals" when many, many ESOL students are actually U.S. citizens. I teach ESOL students and if we are going to deport anyone, let's start with everyone on welfare. There are plenty of native born people who don't work because they'd rather just get handouts from the gov't. None of the parents of my ESOL students sit collecting free handouts around instead of working.

Let's arrest all the business owners and nanny employers who hire illegals, don't pay payroll tax, and divert the fines to the schools. You'll see a who's who of society A listers, believe me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly. I also teach Hispanic students and their parents work 2 jobs and sometimes 3 jobs. They don't have time to come for coffee or movie night and that's okay. I have our bilingual secretary call them if I have an academic or behavioral issue with their child (rarely). Also, in many of their cultures, school is not the parents' domain. They didn't grow up having parent/teacher conferences, etc in their culture. The report card tells them what they need to know and they know to call the office if they want to talk to me. Most of the Hispanic students are good students so I rarely have any issues.

it's up to teachers like you to say to them "hey, this is how it's done in the US. You do interact with the school and the teacher". It's not insensitive to tell new comers to the US this is how school works here and this what we expect.

Schools and teachers need to learn to be more direct and forthcoming with information on processes and explanations to recent immigrant families and those with limited English. Don't just say "teacher parent conferences are coming up" if the parents are recent immigrants with limited English, spell out what the conference is, why it is being held, that they are expected to show up, that this is how school is conducted in the US, etc. Believe it or not, they aren't going to be offended. They moved to the US, they know not everything is going to be the same as their home country and really immigrants are ok learning how things work in the US and then participating.

+1

Seriously, how many excuses are we going to give these families. Schools with hispanic population have the lowest test scores out there. They work 17 jobs, they don't understand, we need a representative, find more ideas for them, send them home with food for the weekend, get translators, send them all copies in Spanish, explain what a conference really means. UGH!!!! It does not matter. The kids don't speak English, they bomb standardized testing. No amount of time and money we put into this train wreck will work. More keep coming in every grade every year in this county. The more ESOL teachers my child's school gets every few years, the less paraeducators decrease and ratios increase, works against every other child but ESOL kids. But yes, let's keep feeling sorry for those that run across the border, pop out babies, and want their non-English speaking kids in our English speaking schools. Fun for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:18:11- Stop making sense. You are ruining the PPs desire to deport the "illegals" when many, many ESOL students are actually U.S. citizens. I teach ESOL students and if we are going to deport anyone, let's start with everyone on welfare. There are plenty of native born people who don't work because they'd rather just get handouts from the gov't. None of the parents of my ESOL students sit collecting free handouts around instead of working.

Let's arrest all the business owners and nanny employers who hire illegals, don't pay payroll tax, and divert the fines to the schools. You'll see a who's who of society A listers, believe me.

That would be awesome. I think that is why so many here are all for illegals messing up the school districts. They get super cheap labor for their company or Rosita to babysit for $5/hr so they can make $60/hr all day. They are the real crooks. It could be done but the government doesn't have the balls to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP- Do you understand that there are plenty of legal citizens who start school not speaking English? Plenty of them. Just because a child doesn't speak English does not mean they are illegal. I know it is simpler to think that all ESOL students are illegal and should be deported but it just isn't the case.

The only ones that are legal are the ones when their mom ran the border to pop them out for free healthcare, free welfare, and free education. Mommy and Daddy are illegal and if deported, would bring their meal ticket anchor babies home with them.

[Anonymous]

Our aging population needs those kids to support social security. They won't be doing that if they are not educated enough to get jobs to support themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:18:11- Stop making sense. You are ruining the PPs desire to deport the "illegals" when many, many ESOL students are actually U.S. citizens. I teach ESOL students and if we are going to deport anyone, let's start with everyone on welfare. There are plenty of native born people who don't work because they'd rather just get handouts from the gov't. None of the parents of my ESOL students sit collecting free handouts around instead of working.

People are on welfare because illegals took their jobs working for less money so the rich get richer. And many many illegals are on government assistance. Don't be fooled.

Nope. There is no way these families would work the types of jobs these parents have. Cleaning, construction, landscaping, etc. No way. Why work your fingers to the bone for minimum wage when you can collect welfare?

I disagree and this is such a stereotype of many liberals.

Not the PP but we who worked these jobs before? I remember moms and teens working retail. The entire malls were teen/college workers on weekends and nights. Teens also did bussing services and hostess. Working McDonalds too. I think everyone in my high school worked in a fast food restaurant at one point. My BIL's had to close his landscaping/concrete business in 2003 because he paid legal american workers and no one wanted his fees. People rather hire illegal workers for cheaper to do their lawns and patios. That is where 90% of the legally owned landscaping businesses went. In my schools in the 70/80's the janitors were caucasian or african american and spoke English. And cleaning ladies were moms. It was their supplemental income for when they stayed at home. Oh and we own a construction type company. We won't/don't hire illegals because we do government jobs and need e-verify and security ability on everyone to enter government restricted areas. PLENTY of people line up for openings when we need more employees for the jobs. PLENTY. So I don't buy the crap that they "had" to come to the US because of all these jobs no one wanted. SOMEONE had them before they did, but they do jobs for pennies so CEO's and company owners can put more money in their back pockets. They were hired, legals were fired. CEO's took it to the bank.

As far as those on welfare, you do realize if they deported and gave welfare recipients 6 months sliding scale to get one of the many jobs now available before they lost welfare, it would save this country billions of dollars. But the government (Democratics especially) want welfare recipients. The more people depending on the government the better. If it means our taxes goes to paying them and also paying for illegal immigrants ESL/FARMS/Food Stamps so be it. The only person on the losing end is the middle class and our public education system. At the rate illegal immigrants are entering our county, most schools but certain areas of Potomac/Chevy Chase will be 50% FARMS/ESOL and like many other posters have mentioned it is a major issue at their school. So yes, I am concerned. I think just turning a blind eye is killing our schools. Immigration reform and securing the borders is a political game to play against each party. As long as we are all okay with having our taxes go towards it, nothing will be done and MCPS schools will continue to spiral down as they have the last 10-15yrs. Just like the middle class shrinking, the middle kids are getting less and less. It is either IB or ESL in our schools and the average kids are paying for it everyday. It does not work. You can put more and more money into it but it won't change. People like to think it will but it won't.

This is correct. Don't you remember the posts from the summer abt kids who couldn't find jobs in retail? And the ONLY people I know who pay all taxes for household help are government workers or political wannabes, not the vast majority of household help employers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS doesn't always need to equal 'bad' kids. Many immigrant kids are incredibly hard working and they and their parents have a strong work ethic and desire to make it in this country.

Sorry, PP, but if you look at testing of local schools there is a very strong correlation between the percentage of FARMS students and school performance.

And please stop deflecting from the issue. NO ONE is saying these kids are "bad". But many of these kids have challenges such as learning English, spotty educational experiences in their countries of origin, poverty at home, parents who are working two-plus jobs each, parents who may / may not be involved in school work, that make it hard for them to excel in school. The result is that teachers at high-FARM schools are often spending a disproportionate amount of time teaching to those who are struggling. Those students who are average or high performing don't get much instruction.

It's getting really tiresome having to defend the fact that many of us in Silver Spring don't want to have to put up with crappy schools. It doesn't make us racist. It makes us concerned parents. Moreover, better schools will improve education for EVERYONE, including kids from low SES.

Um, but the students who are "high performing" ARE getting enough instruction because they are performing well. If your kid is "high performing," doing well in school, ranking high (compared on a state and national level) on standardized tests, then what is the problem?????

I take issue with this constant drumbeat complaint on DCUM that people think their "high performing" kids aren't getting enough. Their kids are doing well, performing well, what's the problem???

They are doing well because the bar is low. The bar is low because in 2.0 you have to teach to the lowest common denominator. In a different environment, the bar would be higher and would push kids.

Exactly. But the bar is low throughout MCPS. Even at our "better" school, my 6th grader can get Bs in Advanced English yet not use punctuation or grammar correctly. It's a huge problem and not at all being acknowledged by MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your kid needs more, there are HGCs, middle school magnets, etc.

Let them eat cake. Those programs are oversubscribed - you can't get into them, and the political writing is on the wall that they'll be done away with in the name of closing the achievement gap. Yay, mediocrity! China must be laughing at us.